Space democracies donGÇÖt work (as we have seen).

As I relaxed in the aftermath of a time-dilated fight where supercaps didn't rule the day and lag didn't determine the outcome, I browsed a rack of podkills with implants, spun my recently rebalanced hybrid-gunned ship, and typed off a poorly-thought-out ragepost about how the CSM was irrelevant, because I'm literally a big babby who has no idea what he's talking about.

I then went off to enjoy a bunch of new spaceship-related content that CCP produced after they finally acknowledged that focusing on FiS instead of WiS was the right thing to do!

[quote=Eternum Praetorian]
Space democracies donGÇÖt work (as we have seen).

I love blind, unsupported assertions! Please, tell me more - in fact, construct an entire convoluted argument around your unsupported assertion, then attach it to some kind of ridiculous, impractical idea!

You're not even using key terms correctly. Opinions and demographics are significantly operationally different.

If people want to make an argument that the CSM process needs to be improved so as to increase participation, especially among certain underrepresented groups, then fine, make that argument.

If people want to suggest a more robust system of information gathering that CCP, the CSM, and players in general can access to better understand the playerbase's ideas and sentiments, then fine, let's do that.

However, replacing a group of elected advisers with some questionnaire is an absolutely terrible idea. The issues are far too complicated and diverse to be summarized by 100s of "do you like X" questions. Eve is a complex product that is used to vastly different degrees and in vastly different ways across a broad spectrum of people; it is not a tube of toothpaste with around 3 working parts that people can easily and nearly-universally summarize with a few simple points. This is a shockingly childish proposal, made all the worse by your weak argumentation.

Seems to work for all other large, multimillion dollar companies.
So who are you to say otherwise?


Oh yea... nobody at all.

Multimillion dollar companies as a group do many things that they all don't do as individual companies or with every product.

Please find us an example of a product reasonably analogous to Eve and demonstrate how this method is used.

Elise DarkStar, don't get angry again!
I'm sure you're a good debate team champion in real life.

I love blind, unsupported assertions!

Again, after all that effort you fold so quickly from the simplest and, honestly, generously-framed questions.

Who do you think you're going to convince when you can't offer even the simplest support for your most basic foundational assertions?

You beat me to it, but yeah, I'm reasonably content with CSM6's achievements. Not that you haven't made a few mis-steps, but where it counts, you've got the result we needed.

Of course, when EP means "space democracies don't work" he actually means "I am mad that 2 goons got elected".

Running an alliance in an internet spaceship game is just like a focus group, because... ?

You're doing the unsupported blind assertion thing again.

Since we are talking about unsupported assertions, where did I say that?
In past posts I have actually noted that Goons are like everyone else and the Goon hate is stupid.

Yeah but nobody believes you.

Which is exactly why CCP needs to acquire actual data from EVE's player base (on a large scale) and not take the word of what a few people "believe".

Trebor tried it and it didn't work. The current CSM has done an excellent job of voicing the players' concerns to CCP and just because you don't like Goons being on the CSM doesn't change that fact.

You seem to be a broken record.

Very little of the CSM duties could be replaced by some sort of complicated polling system (which, BTW, would get even lower participation than the CSM elections. People only had to vote once for those, not tens or hundreds of times for your proposal).

A fair amount of our work is having CCPers show us an idea for an upcoming release and get feedback on it, before they go public and destabilize markets/**** people off. A lot of our work is at the summits where we can brainstorm and discuss ideas in detail. Neither of these two would be possible with your system.

if all the CSM's posted intelligent and respectful feedback like yourself, perhaps less people would have issues with them.

In general, just about everyone on the CSM, including Mittens, will post reasonable replies to reasonable questions. For example, look at this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6935

If people post trolling threads, they will get trolling responses.

He's politely sayin your plan isn't going to work and given you refuse to respond to feedback because we all obviously suffer from "reading comprehension" issues no one is taking you seriously anymore.

Thank you for literally making my point for me.

You didn't take my advice did you?

I just don't feel like explaining the obvious to tools.