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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
34
   |
Posted - 2011.11.01 20:46:00 -
[181] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Why did you say faucet in the first place?
Because that's precisely what it would be?
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Oh yea... you're just back peddling again.
Saying "again" implies I have been backpeddling even just once in this thread. If you think you've seen me doing that even just once, guess what? You've got reading issues.
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It is unimaginably stupid that you expect to convince others that collecting demographics and statistics would not work. Or that they work for everyone else but not EVE and not for CCP. Truly unimaginable stupidity.
And again you're putting words in my mouth. What I've been saying is that thinking that you'll get fully reliable data from login-polls is most likely going to disappoint you, and in-game polls is going to be ignored by people like me who can't even be arsed to make a proper character portrait on more than 1 out of 5 chars. The rest are just randomized to get through it as soon as possible, and even then just because it was made mandatory.
They have a literal metric fucktonne of statistics if they need it, in the database itself. Usage pattern, behavioral patterns, economic patterns, over time and in real-time if they so choose. It'll tell them precisely what the players are doing, where, how, and with what.
As to the players' opinions, I suspect you'd find that forums would be about as accurate a themometer for player opinion (if not more so if it's made mandatory for the reasons I've outlined prior re: random clicking just to get out of it) as your polling.
And exactly the same smart people MaiLina KaTar is talking about, could be spent looking at the forums. And post polls themselves, but I'm assuming CCP have actually kept/added polling to the forum software. |
Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 20:55:00 -
[182] - Quote
Who do you forsee coming up with these polls anyway? I mean CCP could do it but there are plenty of issues the players are concerned about that CCP doesn't realise are a problem. We could make it so everyone can create one but then the system will be full of "Vote yes to give all yeeps free titans" causing massive voter apathy. I guess what we really need is some group of people who can filter the moronic requests from the sensible ones. They should probably be players too so CCP can't sweep embarassing issues under the rug. We could even hold elections to choo.... oooooh wait. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 21:08:00 -
[183] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Farts in public.
yea... that's all the response you deserve at this point.
Thx for making this a Threadnaught though!
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 21:18:00 -
[184] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Farts in public. yea... that's all the response you deserve at this point.
I think this right here is best classified as "all out of retorts, but can't stop posting". |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1385
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 21:29:00 -
[185] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Farts in public. yea... that's all the response you deserve at this point. Thx for making this a Threadnaught though!
you got outposted son, its no shame to lose to the best
and believe me you got plenty to be ashamed of so no need to add another pebble to that mountain |
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 21:39:00 -
[186] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Who do you forsee coming up with these polls anyway? I mean CCP could do it but there are plenty of issues the players are concerned about that CCP doesn't realise are a problem....
Stopping to quote right there, because that's one of the crucial things CCP need to fix within their company.
You must, absolutely must have a team of professionals who excel at getting intel about customer concerns. As I said this is not easy, it requires a lot of expertise, and it demands that you dedicate paid employees who are responsible and accountable. This is where good business processes and said tight feedback loops are put to the test.
When it gets to the point where your customers are up in arms cause "you're not listening" you know you ****** up and you need to revise those processes and rebuild them from scratch if necessary. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 21:58:00 -
[187] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Farts in public. yea... that's all the response you deserve at this point. Thx for making this a Threadnaught though! you got outposted son, its no shame to lose to the best and believe me you got plenty to be ashamed of so no need to add another pebble to that mountain
Saying a thing does not make it so.
In reality, I truly do hold your opinion with the same worth as fart expelled into the wind.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 22:10:00 -
[188] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Saying a thing does not make it so.
In reality, I truly do hold your opinion with the same worth as fart expelled into the wind.
And here we are, at the denial phase.
MaiLina KaTar wrote:And once again, no, you do not do this with a bunch of unpaid, biased nerds, elected by a tiny fraction of the customer base, who do it part time using unprofessional means. This is not "Stellar Management" it's a recipe for disaster and the past years provide more than enough evidence.
Just how likely do you think it is that CCP will be hiring new people to do this job just after they fired 20% of their employees due to their finances being suboptimal? That is if they haven't got people who are supposed to do this exact thing right now, which I think is pretty unlikely at this point.
I'm fairly certain that absolutely all the data they might want is already there for the taking, there's absolutely no need to either add extra player annoyance with a login poll on top of that, or to add an in-game polling which, again, experience tells us a small percentile of the playerbase will actually know about and use.
As for "the past years", I guess you're not in the camp that sees that CSM6 is doing things a bit differently from CSM5 and previous. vOv |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 22:43:00 -
[189] - Quote
Nope, you are just talking out of your ass.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 22:55:00 -
[190] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Nope, you are just talking out of your ass.
Awesome argumentation there. A+. |
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 23:11:00 -
[191] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Just how likely do you think it is that CCP will be hiring new people to do this job just after they fired 20% of their employees due to their finances being suboptimal? That is if they haven't got people who are supposed to do this exact thing right now, which I think is pretty unlikely at this point.
That depends solely on how smart CCP's management actually is. And even though my perspective tells me they could certainly do a lot better I won't judge them cause I have no insight whatsoever in their daily business. So yeah... *shrug* it is what is is.
Quote:I'm fairly certain that absolutely all the data they might want is already there for the taking, there's absolutely no need to either add extra player annoyance with a login poll on top of that, or to add an in-game polling which, again, experience tells us a small percentile of the playerbase will actually know about and use.
There is no experience in that regard because it has never actually been done or even attempted by CCP. But let me assure you that if you do it right it works extremely well, although I can't prove it because doing so could get me fired.
Quote:As for "the past years", I guess you're not in the camp that sees that CSM6 is doing things a bit differently from CSM5 and previous. vOv
No, not at all. CSM in general is a flawed concept. It's track record proves that.
Just look at what happened here during the past few months and ask yourself how it came about. If CSM was efficient in any way, shape or form we wouldn't be here discussing it and CCP wouldn't have to chop off its limbs.
CSM6 accomplished nothing except regurgitating and warping info that's been floating on these boards and several other places for years on end. The recent increase in apparent awareness by CCP has nothing to do with CSM6 being the self-proclaimed champions they are, but much rather with very real and very severe financial consequences of the company completely failing at customer relations. As a matter of fact, the CSM itself is the outcome of CCP failing at customer relations.
And even if it did have any sort of impact, the effective outcome is still nothing more than CCP now finally beginning to fix stuff that should've been taken care of years ago. The product is far, far from where it should be.
Outsourcing such important tasks to a bunch of dubiously elected part timers is not how you do business. It's how you lose 20% of your company. When you want to know what your customers are thinking you employ professionals who find it out for you. People study customer relations at universities for a reason. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 23:21:00 -
[192] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Nope, you are just talking out of your ass. Awesome argumentation there. A+.
Actually yes.
Some people really do talk out of their ass, and it is best to just accept that 
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 23:44:00 -
[193] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't really care what your opinion is because you are arguing against common scientific methods used in all successful business models. So... yea. U fail.
So you're arguing that CCP doesn't have a possibility to get a metric fucktonne of data out of the userbase's usage etc in real-time and trends over an extended period of time, along with getting a feel for the userbase's opinions by trawling the forums? |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 23:53:00 -
[194] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't really care what your opinion is because you are arguing against common scientific methods used in all successful business models. So... yea. U fail. So you're arguing that CCP doesn't have a possibility to get a metric fucktonne of data out of the userbase's usage etc in real-time and trends over an extended period of time, along with getting a feel for the userbase's opinions by trawling the forums?
Are you saying they do?
Please tell me precisely how they can?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Parsec Seti
1st Contact
Fade 2 Black
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 23:59:00 -
[195] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:
So you're arguing that CCP doesn't have a possibility to get a metric fucktonne of data out of the userbase's usage etc in real-time and trends over an extended period of time, along with getting a feel for the userbase's opinions by trawling the forums?
Usage data would not tell CCP what the players want, or how they feel about the game - and trawling the forums is a poor way of collecting data. There would be no valid way to aggregate the data, and it would be subject to a "fucktonne" of bias.
"Welcome to you're doom!" |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 00:03:00 -
[196] - Quote
Quote:Are you saying they do?
Please tell me precisely how they can?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Destru Kaneda
CTRL-Q
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 00:29:00 -
[197] - Quote
I hate surveys.
Music for robots, hackers, pirates, geeks and miscellaneous nerds. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 00:32:00 -
[198] - Quote
Destru Kaneda wrote:I hate surveys.
ALT SPOTTED!!!
ZMG ALT! ALT! ALT! ALT!ALT! ALT! ALT! ALT!ALT! ALT! ALT! ALT!
Only and alt could hate surveys!
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 02:26:00 -
[199] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Are you saying they do? Please tell me precisely how they can?
Are you really asking me how CCP can get usage data out of their own game? The game where they can log exactly what the players do at any given time? The game where CCP have repeatedly shown, in great detail, how they even break down every function is being run and how much time is spent in those functions?
If you really are asking me that question, then yeah, I might as well just be talking to a rock for all the sense I'll be able to impart on you.
Parsec Seti wrote:Usage data would not tell CCP what the players want, or how they feel about the game - and trawling the forums is a poor way of collecting data. There would be no valid way to aggregate the data, and it would be subject to a "fucktonne" of bias.
Actually, I'm not sure it's as impossible as you imply it is. If there are tons of threads about how blasters and railguns are awful to use in PVP, and the usage data mined from the servers themselves show that very few people do, in fact, use rails or blasters, or most of the people using those weapon systems lose the fight, then I'd say they'd have reason to believe that the forum posters are indeed telling the truth.
Of course, all this doesn't hide the fact that regardless of what the data, the forums, the CSM or (if they use them) surveys all say, it's still CCP's prerogative whether or not they actually use this information to modify EVE. The last 18-24 months I'd say they haven't really been doing any of that, because they've been so focused on WoD and Dust514.
MaiLina KaTar wrote:There is no experience in that regard because it has never actually been done or even attempted by CCP. But let me assure you that if you do it right it works extremely well, although I can't prove it because doing so could get me fired.
I was actually talking about experiences with other MMOs where they've compared forum posts to registered gamers, and they found that 70 or 80% of the playerbase never even read the forums, 15% or so read it but never posted, and the rest posted furiously. While it's probable that EVE's playerbase might be more hardcore than an FPS game's playerbase, it's still most likely going to be a minority that even reads forums, let alone posts on them. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
110
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 02:47:00 -
[200] - Quote
O.K! Who let one!
Zim, I know that was you!
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
630
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 07:12:00 -
[201] - Quote
Nice to see some other people posting in here other than Eternum and all his alts. Too bad for him that none of them agree with his lame ideas and he now has to resort to fart jokes to keep his thread bumped.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
110
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 12:35:00 -
[202] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Nice to see some other people posting in here other than Eternum and all his alts. Too bad for him that none of them agree with his lame ideas and he now has to resort to fart jokes to keep his thread bumped.
Poor little troll..
So butthurt.
I should thank you for making this post a threadnaught utter epic win!
It just won't die... & you more then anyone else have help make VERY clear how adverse the trolls are to sensible demographic gathering and statistics.
...I guess you don't want the common player's voice heard as loud as your own, yea?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
630
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 13:18:00 -
[203] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:...I guess you don't want the common player's voice heard as loud as your own, yea?
The common players like Mittens. At least he doesn't have to resort to sock puppetry to get his point across.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
110
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 13:33:00 -
[204] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:...I guess you don't want the common player's voice heard as loud as your own, yea? The common players like Mittens. At least he doesn't have to resort to sock puppetry to get his point across.
QF... not making any sense at all.
U so angry Harlot.
Do I mk U mad?
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
637
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 13:55:00 -
[205] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do I mk U mad?
Nope. But it is sad to see somebody resorting to alt posting to make himself look better.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
110
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 14:00:00 -
[206] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do I mk U mad? Nope. But it is sad to see somebody resorting to alt posting to make himself look better.
You seem pretty mad to me bra.
One of the reasons why you keep dragging the alt thing into the dirt, you yourself being one.
Release your anger my child.
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
38
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 14:09:00 -
[207] - Quote
Hello, is this the posting police? I'd like to report a posting violation. Yes, I'm looking at it right now. Yes, it has a "u mad" post, and it has been repeated. Ok, good, you're on your way. |
Angel Lust
Vikinghall
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 14:12:00 -
[208] - Quote
Remove CSM  |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1391
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 14:49:00 -
[209] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do I mk U mad? Nope. But it is sad to see somebody resorting to alt posting to make himself look better. You seem pretty mad to me bra. One of the reasons why you keep dragging the alt thing into the dirt, you yourself being one. Release your anger my child.
now this is just pathetic most third graders would be immensely ashamed to have such childish retorts |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
110
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 16:29:00 -
[210] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do I mk U mad? Nope. But it is sad to see somebody resorting to alt posting to make himself look better. You seem pretty mad to me bra. One of the reasons why you keep dragging the alt thing into the dirt, you yourself being one. Release your anger my child. now this is just pathetic most third graders would be immensely ashamed to have such childish retorts
Now I shall correct your grammar, I think that sentence needed a comma.
Got to love how the trolls can't take what they dish out though!
U mad at something Weaselior?
Oh yea... you are angry at gathering unbiased demographics and statistics. 
As I said before, the loudmouth trolls just don't want other voices to be heard (TM)
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
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