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Sinari Galdrin
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Posted - 2005.12.17 19:45:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Dak Hakin
yeah you would have to be a real moron if you just ignore the pop-up.
Not sure about that.
If Mr X was flying around and had dropped a can, and I was a newb, and Mr X sent me a message 'take that can, I don't need the stuff in it, it might help', I might ignore the warning thinking that 'Mr X told me to take it, so he won't shoot at me'...
For a newbie (maybe one coming from less 'cutthroat' games, looking for something more grown up), I can easily see how you could be taken in.
If someone DID want to give a can to someone else now, the warning would make it harder.
As has been mentioned before, maybe there should be a way to mark a can as 'public', so it won't flag when taken, or a way to give items to people in space without it having to go via a can.
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WolfGang H
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Posted - 2005.12.17 19:57:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Evit Retsal
Originally by: Deja Thoris
If you lose a ship because you cannot read a message then the ship loss is the least of your problems.
Why aren't more people realizing ^^^this^^^. The change to jet-cans was publicly announced, cans are auto-marked with your corp ticker symbol, and you're given a confirmation box to confirm that you're serious about emptying the can in question. What's so difficult to understand here?
You're playing a game with completely open PvP (yes, i'll shoot you down in concord space if i feel like it, some days the value of a ship means absolutely nothing to me, that's the risk YOU are taking by playing this game - the risk that there might be people like me out there in space with you today). It should be obvious that you are literally taking your own life in your hands every time you interact with a "stranger" in this game.
Someone wants to offer you a gift? Are you having second thoughts about this person's integrity? Something in your gut whispering "don't open the box!" to you? Then don't be an idiot! Don't open the box. Tell them to escrow it to you at the nearest station for the price of 1.00 ISK. What's so freakin' hard about that???? There's more than one way to give someone something in this game, passing things back and forth in jet-cans is NOT the only option.
And even then, there's an inherent work-around already in place for this, which an earlier poster to this thread already mentioned. Receiver drops 1 unit of anything (ore, ammo, whatever), and the giver simply puts the gift into the receiver's can. Complicated, i know, but i'll bet anyone smart enough to survive in EVE is smart enough to master the technique.
That being said, i must also agree that there should probably be a cool-down timer on NPC-dropped cans which are abandoned by players. Should be a simple thing to implement, and will reduce NPC-can litter, because everyone will go back to cleaning up after people who leave them behind.
In addition, i must also agree that this sort of can-baiting is cheap, dirty, and under-handed. All we can do to combat it at this point is to discourage it, and the only way to do that is to ALWAYS take names, and when people pull this kind of crap on you, then make sure you seek the vengeance you're entitled to.
This guy 100% has a solid mind. EVERYONE NEEDS to read this. It is written perfectly and reflects the only logical and viable thought pattern. Make it so cans lose ownership after 5-15 minutes (whatever works best). Anyone who ignores the warning and takes stuff from cans before that period has pased puts themselves at risk.
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Have what it takes to join the Guardians of Basgerin? |
Semkhet
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Posted - 2005.12.17 21:34:00 -
[93]
The "Free stuff in this can" program is the first combined international effort to promote (and sanction...) correct reading comprehension of popup messages within EVE. It also improves gameplay experience by raising overall game mechanics awareness of inexperienced players.
However, it now retrospectively seems that the test we designed is too complicated.
Preliminary:
The VOLUNTARY test subjects were presented with an item (can) who only could be considered as an incentive either by a) naive, b) stupid or c) greedy individuals. The item was labelled as offering some free goodies. Reading the can's label, approaching the can and taking away the content were actions solely and exclusively dependent of the tested subject's will.
Test:
BEFORE finalyzing the can content's retrieval, I repeat: BEFORE... A popup appears with the following text:
"If you take this, the owner of the can can kick your butt".
Sanctions:
Individuals disregarding the meaning of the warning (for whatever reason) got their butts kicked.
Computed results:
15% of players don't understand english
5% of players understand the warning, but don't believe it.
35% of players don't even bother to read the warning.
30% of players are masochists
15% of players are still studying their abecedary
Remark:
What most puzzled us is that almost 100% of players were shouting "WTF is doing Concord ?" after having been sanctioned, when we were expecting a mere 65%. This is unfortunately the unequivocal sign of mental problems and we are sorry to have accepted test individuals suffering cognitive conditions. We will refer these individuals to the appropriate organisms in order to be recloned with a better IQ.
Stay tuned for our next educative programs in the great serie "English comprehension in EVE's virtual world".
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WolfGang H
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Posted - 2005.12.17 21:35:00 -
[94]
Please click here
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Have what it takes to join the Guardians of Basgerin? |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.17 21:43:00 -
[95]
PS, FYI, if you're in a bomber, attacking the Claw which just looked in your can is NOT a good idea. Just a hint. Next time, the bomber might not be lucky enough to get away in structure.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Claude Leon
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Posted - 2005.12.17 21:57:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Lunas Feelgood
hehe i have done this in ours its fun However only attack the ships who stole you can not his drones then you get killed by concord
Agreed. Also, You your gangmates can't attack other. When I engaged Lunas, some gangmates tried to engage and they were killed by sentry fire.
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Mimio
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:09:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Silberhaar
A simple solution is to put a 15 min timer on all jettisoned and loot cans. When the timer runs out then the conti can be looted by everyone with no flagging. Don't forget that secure containers are permanently protected. This will helps everyone!
This idea(btw, from Lineage) is too simple, too effective and too brilliant for CCP
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zykerx
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:27:00 -
[98]
that people fell for this trick is there own fault
but pvpers tricking noobs by saying take it, you may have it, i dont need it and name the can free stuff, thats is uber lame
kinda pathetic that there are pvpers that need this tactics to get a few killmails for there precious killsite
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Rells
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:28:00 -
[99]
Adding additional options to jetting cans wont stop people from doing this. The only real answer is a popup that you cant checkbox away that will tell you that you will incur an agression flag if you loot that can.
◄ I must not fear.
◄ Fear is the mind-killer.
◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
◄ -- Paul Atreides
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Rells
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:29:00 -
[100]
Originally by: zykerx
that people fell for this trick is there own fault
but pvpers tricking noobs by saying take it, you may have it, i dont need it and name the can free stuff, thats is uber lame
kinda pathetic that there are pvpers that need this tactics to get a few killmails for there precious killsite
People new to the game wouldnt know any better and your arrogant condemnation is irrational and poorly motivated.
◄ I must not fear.
◄ Fear is the mind-killer.
◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
◄ -- Paul Atreides
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:44:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Mimio
Originally by: Silberhaar
A simple solution is to put a 15 min timer on all jettisoned and loot cans. When the timer runs out then the conti can be looted by everyone with no flagging. Don't forget that secure containers are permanently protected. This will helps everyone!
This idea(btw, from Lineage) is too simple, too effective and too brilliant for CCP
No, its that most missions arent finished in 15 minutes Einstein.
Therefore such a short timer is ineffective and stupid. Since cans disappear after about 2 hours, making the flag disappear after a longer timeframe is moot.
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FUna
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:45:00 -
[102]
Edited by: FUna on 17/12/2005 22:46:06
The carebears said, "OMGWTF! Ore theives are teh sux0r! We watn jet can flagging FTW!"
Experienced miners said, "No wai! Its a grief tool for the pie rats!"
Carebears replied, "LOL! STFU n00b! We want to kill teh ore theifs! CCP give us jetc an flagging now!!"
The experienced miners shrugged their shoulders and went back to mining with a buddy in an hauler or using secure cans.
The pie rats sat silently acting innocent and trying not to be noticed.
CCP implemented the jet can flags.
Carebears are now screaming "OMGWTF! WE AER GETTING GRIEFDE!!!! CCP IS SO ST00PID FOR PUTTING JET CAN FLAGGIN IN TEH GAME!!! ARGH! I KNOW BETTER THEN THES DUM DEVS!"
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:48:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: zykerx
that people fell for this trick is there own fault
but pvpers tricking noobs by saying take it, you may have it, i dont need it and name the can free stuff, thats is uber lame
kinda pathetic that there are pvpers that need this tactics to get a few killmails for there precious killsite
People new to the game wouldnt know any better and your arrogant condemnation is irrational and poorly motivated.
I'm sorry, if you cant read then suffer the consequences.
Pandering to idiots is the reason we have warnings on cups about "hot" coffee. Peanut packets that contain the warning "this product may contain traces of nuts"
Let nature do its work ffs!
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Avaleric
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:51:00 -
[104]
...only one weapon against crap like this: SPREAD THE WORD...
- Ignorance is bliss... |
MysticNZ
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:51:00 -
[105]
The whole can flagging thing is stupid and I cannot belive CPP felt it nesscary to add this.
Originally by: Nyphur
I'm hungry and naked. That answer your question?
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CdCommander
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Posted - 2005.12.18 00:01:00 -
[106]
tbh
I like the kill right thing 
makes empire fun for once
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O Thief
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Posted - 2005.12.18 00:59:00 -
[107]
Originally by: FUna
Edited by: FUna on 17/12/2005 22:46:06
The carebears said, "OMGWTF! Ore theives are teh sux0r! We watn jet can flagging FTW!"
Experienced miners said, "No wai! Its a grief tool for the pie rats!"
Carebears replied, "LOL! STFU n00b! We want to kill teh ore theifs! CCP give us jetc an flagging now!!"
The experienced miners shrugged their shoulders and went back to mining with a buddy in an hauler or using secure cans.
The pie rats sat silently acting innocent and trying not to be noticed.
CCP implemented the jet can flags.
Carebears are now screaming "OMGWTF! WE AER GETTING GRIEFDE!!!! CCP IS SO ST00PID FOR PUTTING JET CAN FLAGGIN IN TEH GAME!!! ARGH! I KNOW BETTER THEN THES DUM DEVS!"
Am I the only one who finds the use of the word 'teh' in place of 'the' rather irritating, often indicative of an age beginning with 1, and somewhat pointless?
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2005.12.18 02:10:00 -
[108]
Originally by: O Thief
Am I the only one who finds the use of the word 'teh' in place of 'the' rather irritating, often indicative of an age beginning with 1, and somewhat pointless?
This is the internet, get used to it. Or be annoyed.
On the whole can flagging "abuse"; learn to read. Problem solved.
p - l - u - r |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2005.12.18 02:28:00 -
[109]
Actually this is what you should say "This is teh internet - I use 'teh' because I want to be seen as 12 year old."
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FUna
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Posted - 2005.12.18 03:23:00 -
[110]
Originally by: O Thief
Am I the only one who finds the use of the word 'teh' in place of 'the' rather irritating, often indicative of an age beginning with 1, and somewhat pointless?
That was "teh" point.
Am I the only person who finds the lack of English reading comprehension skills rather irritating?
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Jared VonBargen
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Posted - 2005.12.18 04:16:00 -
[111]
i agree its a good idea, just change it a bit, leave rat drops and the like public, because alot of people just kill the rats and leave, but as this was created for ore thieveing and the like, have an option to turn a can 'private' but not passworded. ive been flagged dozens of times just picking up rat cans. at first id wait to ask them in local, but alot of the time they are out system or logged by then. so youre saying a corpmember of him could then kill me because he left stuff floating? or another thing, make them private, but if they log or leave system it goes public.
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Chy Rhuwan
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Posted - 2005.12.18 05:17:00 -
[112]
You guys do know this is just a ploy to give free items to people who build Dreads in 1.0 space don't you?
I mean honestly, you've got 3 cloaked Stealth Bombers waiting to *****the person who dares take a BPC from a can (Gotta have good loot to make them try it, costs nothing if you've got the BPO, lose almost nothing if you lose a shuttle BPC). In comes the pretty Moros, Moros takes the contents of the can and announces to local, "Oh deary me, I hope nobody attacks me for being a can thief". Moros waddles away. Last message in local to campers from the Moros, "That's what I thought, *****es."
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DarkBluePanther007
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Posted - 2005.12.18 05:29:00 -
[113]
The flagging was useless, so what if you had to pick up your cans after killing several rats?
So what if you had to work with a hauler not to get robbed, while mining, or dock regularly at a station to empty instead of using cans, or use secure cans?
"yeah but it's good it gives us a chance to pvp in empure space"...
Why the world would you need to pvp in empire space, you have several 0.0 to 0.4 places for that? Empire space is already laggy enough as it is!
instauring a pvp arena would have been better...
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Shugo Kazuma
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Posted - 2005.12.18 05:40:00 -
[114]
Unownerise the cans after 30-45 mins. If your mission takes longer than that, pay a few thousand to a corp mate or someone you trust with a hauler to pick up your crap behind you.
I hearing things like systems littered with can debris in the belts because no one's willing to touch a can that will flag them now in fear that someone's got a cloaked battleship hanging around waitting to gank the first person who comes by.
Reducing lag by removing drones won't work if it's immediatly replaced with lag induced by cans floating all over the place instead.
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Eighthsyn
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Posted - 2005.12.18 05:58:00 -
[115]
The Big Scam hehe was my introduction into the game... I have no false beliefs after reading this that I am to ever be truley safe in any sec 1.0 to 0.0. They give you 14 days to try out the game, your noob ship goes BOOM!! they give you a new one free of charge, live die move on.
"This is a story of deception, intrigue, and doublecrossing. It is a story of liars, bandits, and greed. It is a story of the worst of the human condition, and how the motive for profit will drive a normally nice guy to the deepest depths of evil and betrayal.
This is the story of my life in Eve Online."
I didn't sign up for a year for a bubble wrapped game.
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Tony Fats
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Posted - 2005.12.18 06:33:00 -
[116]
You can thank carebear miners for this situation.
They couldn't just mine SMARTLY and avoid thieves, no that takes too much work, so they had to ask the devs to spend time making the game moron-proof.
Well they gave you what you asked for. Bon appetit.
Why don't you just leave the mechanics alone and let the PLAYERS do things more intelligently? Instead of dumbing the game down to support carebear miners?
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Ice Coldbrew
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Posted - 2005.12.18 07:00:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Tony Fats
You can thank carebear miners for this situation.
They couldn't just mine SMARTLY and avoid thieves, no that takes too much work, so they had to ask the devs to spend time making the game moron-proof.
Well they gave you what you asked for. Bon appetit.
Why don't you just leave the mechanics alone and let the PLAYERS do things more intelligently? Instead of dumbing the game down to support carebear miners?
QFE
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Rhyslin
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Posted - 2005.12.18 07:55:00 -
[118]
You know, what I love to do is to put a piece of furniture out on my driveway with a "Take me" sign, then shoot the suckers when they cart it away. When the police come, I just point at the "No Trespassing" sign.
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.12.18 08:43:00 -
[119]
Well, I suggested a few weeks ago that people should be able to 'mark' their cans as their property, if they wish and then the new rules would apply, with the big warning when somebody open them.
If you don't 'mark' them, they stay free-for-all.
Could have been done via a overview function, like 'tagging' in gang works, so people could mark their ore and loot cans in a second with a right click in the overview or on the can. (posted some more details)
That would have avoided all the newbie problems.
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Shugo Kazuma
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Posted - 2005.12.18 08:56:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Tony Fats
Why don't you just leave the mechanics alone and let the PLAYERS do things more intelligently? Instead of dumbing the game down to support carebear miners?
You know, it wasn't just miners, the missioning/PvE community was asking for this. They complainned that people were stealing their loot cans in the belts and stuff or during their mission and they couldn't do jack about it with out being concordoned.
As is, it's not bad, but it can always be tweaked so that we aren't screwing over new people or the people aredeously clean up systems of abandonded rat hunter cans too much.
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