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"Kill Rights" exploit.

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Deka Ekato	Posted - 2005.12.17 07:51:00 - [1] Hopefully this is the right forum to write this. Some more experianced people are exploiting the "Kill Rights" option to trap mainly newbies. They seem to dump containers in space, some of these containers are even named as "Free Stuff", then they wait for a newbie, who are still getting used to the game, to pick up the container, (which is technically theft), which allows the exploiter to have "Kill Rights" against the newbie, because the exploiters property has just been stolen. Hopefully I made myself clear enough about what is happening. IMHO I think this sould be stoped.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.17 07:53:00 - [2] kill rights is for when you get podkilled in empire by suiciders or snipers. what you described is just can flagging, and with the VERY OBVIOUS POPUP WARNING that announces that you're about to become attackable, anyone who falls for it deserves it.
dark sea	Posted - 2005.12.17 07:58:00 - [3] oh man, if you name your jetcan "free stuff" and trap noobs with that then you are a gigantic looser, simple.
Foose	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:02:00 - [4] Originally by: dark sea oh man, if you name your jetcan "free stuff" and trap noobs with that then you are a gigantic looser, simple. Ditto
Beth Young	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:07:00 - [5] Edited by: Beth Young on 17/12/2005 08:09:51 This also has the added disadvantage (that I've experienced a bit of tonight) of noobs not trusting you when you're genuinely trying to help out. There should be a way to mark a container as public (without the ability to turn it back into an owned can) so that it's blatantly obvious what's bait and what's honest freebies.
Arti K	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:10:00 - [6] Oh man that's funny More pvp for everyone \o/ Originally by: Skzcaptain 0.0 is a huge dueling zone.
Vixa Ambrodel	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Beth Young Edited by: Beth Young on 17/12/2005 08:09:51 This also has the added disadvantage (that I've experienced a bit of tonight) of noobs not trusting you when you're genuinely trying to help out. There should be a way to mark a container as public (without the ability to turn it back into an owned can) so that it's blatantly obvious what's bait and what's honest freebies. Dock in a station, trade items...
Vixa Ambrodel	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:11:00 - [8] Usually I just click Do Not Show again whenever there's a pop-up and I know what I'm doing... This is the ONLY one I will NEVER EVER do that with! It can lead to a lot of bad situations if I just pop a can without noticing the corp ticker on it and it saved my ship not only once but TWICE last night. So this warning SHOULD be sufficient to anyone, even new players. If they ignore it, it's their own stupidity and not an exploit...
Beth Young	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:13:00 - [9] Edited by: Beth Young on 17/12/2005 08:13:55 Originally by: Vixa Ambrodel Dock in a station, trade items... It's generally not that serious of a thing. Gathering up loot to leave out for whoever, scraps of minerals/ore to help a noobish passerby, stuff like that.
The GoldenRatio	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:16:00 - [10] If you want to securely trade with someone but dont want to dock to do it, quickly form a gang. --- The GoldenRatio > All.
Beth Young	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:18:00 - [11] I'm usually in a gang with other people when I do this and generally dont want to add the noob. =]
Ravenal	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:40:00 - [12] word of warning for would be lootpickers... there MIGHT be a cloaked ship (bomber) just waiting for an opportunity. guess im giving lots of people ideas too, but "everybody" should know now then.. . Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it.
The Wizz117	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:41:00 - [13] i olrady made a topic aboud this 2 weeks before rmr.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:47:00 - [14] It's hardly an exploit. There's a huge warning that appears and explains that if they take the stuff they can be fired at by the owner.
Jarnis McPieksu	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:50:00 - [15] Maybe devs should make a news item warning everyone...? Lots of people are falling for it. Maybe even work this into the tutorial at some point? The system is very good - except that new players without the knowledge how the system works can be tricked into getting killed. This is all about lack of information. So, instead of rolling back on a good system, how about trying to get the information out?
Lunas Feelgood	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:05:00 - [16] hehe i have done this in ours its fun However only attack the ships who stole you can not his drones then you get killed by concord
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:18:00 - [17] Like all of the above posters have already stated - There is an obvious warning requiring player acknowledgment before they become flagged. If someone is that stupid, they deserve to be killed. I think it is hillarious that people are actually that stupid, and I fully support those who are punishing them for it.
Piotr Anatolev	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood hehe i have done this in ours its fun However only attack the ships who stole you can not his drones then you get killed by concord
KHEN	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:22:00 - [19] killing noobs = killing EVE in the mean time. Ccp will always need new subscribers to compensate those who leave the game
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu Maybe devs should make a news item warning everyone...? Lots of people are falling for it. Maybe even work this into the tutorial at some point? Are you the guy that lobbied for the law requiring that big huge tag on hair dryer cords that says warning: do not use while in the bath tub? Stupid people deserve to suffer the consequences of thier own stupidity.
Dak Hakin	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:23:00 - [21] yeah you would have to be a real moron if you just ignore the pop-up. I found a jet-can full of modules last night, and I thought for sure there was someone stealthing... But they were not in local _______________________________________________ If you fear the thorn, do not crave the rose Mr. Grumpy-sour-pus
Cvuos	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Beth Young Edited by: Beth Young on 17/12/2005 08:09:51 This also has the added disadvantage (that I've experienced a bit of tonight) of noobs not trusting you when you're genuinely trying to help out. There should be a way to mark a container as public (without the ability to turn it back into an owned can) so that it's blatantly obvious what's bait and what's honest freebies. If you want to give something to someone, they can drop a piece of ammo and you can dump the items in their can. Haven't tried it, but I think that would be a suitable workaround. Also, can flagging gives players the option to do 1v1s in high sec!
Inspiration	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:31:00 - [23] Edited by: Inspiration on 17/12/2005 09:32:41 It will problably also be a problem for miners, when they want to pick up their own can, yet it ain't theirs! Someone will have moved the ore into his own Jetcan and is nearby in a BS and will go in for the kill, taking out ship of the player that comes back for 'HIS' own ore. The realy offending player will be richer a few best named cargo expanders! Most miners won't have any defense against this, they dont have the skill to make use of the kill rights, yet the thief has and will make use of it. In short nothing has been done to fix this kind of can thiefing....it made it just more popular! I remember someone predicting this a while back! Check out my resistance calculator. WARNING: It is not RMR ready, mail me the stacking penalty math so I can fix this!
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:41:00 - [24] No, it's not an exploit; yes, it is griefing; and I don't understand what's "stupid" about believing someone when he tells you he's giving you stuff for free. On that basis, nobody can ever have any corpmembers because nobody can be trusted. "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Idio T	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:49:00 - [25] have to chime in. The container needs a public or private flag. Personally, I donÆt feel itÆs an exploit, but certainly a headache. (While in the office today, I had to "form a gang" with the guy in the other cubical to just borrow a pen. Otherwise, I'd have the Joey the Printer guy shooting tech2 staples at me.) IMO, this is a great concept, just needs a public/private flag. Frigate about it!
Szordin	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:51:00 - [26] I think a bit of common sense, would tell you. That if you get a popup saying you can be attacked, then maybe you should think again before taking the stuff. Just think before you act.
Nicholai Pestot	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:52:00 - [27] Aww someones gotta video this stuff and add it to the 'darwin' awards -------------------------------------- I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant
Antoinette Civari	Posted - 2005.12.17 09:54:00 - [28] Originally by: KHEN killing noobs = killing EVE in the mean time. naw, it's killing noobs = killing time in the mean EvE (universe).
Claryssa Silverwing	Posted - 2005.12.17 10:25:00 - [29] For those who employ this tactic to kill noobies: Seriously, how low can you sink? You've pretty much reached the bottom with this.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.17 10:35:00 - [30] Originally by: Inspiration Edited by: Inspiration on 17/12/2005 09:32:41 It will problably also be a problem for miners, when they want to pick up their own can, yet it ain't theirs! Someone will have moved the ore into his own Jetcan and is nearby in a BS and will go in for the kill, taking out ship of the player that comes back for 'HIS' own ore. The realy offending player will be richer a few best named cargo expanders! Most miners won't have any defense against this, they dont have the skill to make use of the kill rights, yet the thief has and will make use of it. In short nothing has been done to fix this kind of can thiefing....it made it just more popular! I remember someone predicting this a while back! and the anti-gankers can bait the gankers by having a guy mine with cloaked gangmates nearby.
Calian	Posted - 2005.12.17 10:40:00 - [31] Ah yes, the deadly and most feared of all pirates, the jetcan pirate. Elusive and devious they stalk the universe in seach of their next victim, no where are you safe from these most notorious and vicious pirates. Many a day you'll hear the call go out... "Jetcan Pirate camping Jita gate! Avoid at all costs!" Does CCP not care? When will we see the autopilot option for "Avoid Jetcan Camped Areas"? Lets stop the horror and bring these most heinous of criminals to justice, or space will never be safe again. ------------------------- I hate everyone, except you.
Zazza Zaa	Posted - 2005.12.17 10:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Niki Silver[/quote Are you the guy that lobbied for the law requiring that big huge tag on hair dryer cords that says warning: do not use while in the bath tub? quote] No that TAG is restricted too the US population
Zazza Zaa	Posted - 2005.12.17 10:45:00 - [33] Originally by: dark sea oh man, if you name your jetcan "free stuff" and trap noobs with that then you are a gigantic looser, simple. Yea I agree
DarkStar251	Posted - 2005.12.17 10:47:00 - [34] so, the carebears were desparate for Jetcan flagging. 'No!' shouted everyone else, 'For a start jettisoning stuff is what you do when you no longer want it, you are discarding it, and secondly it will lead to people blowing up newbs and moving the miners mins to a new can so he cant collect them!' 'We want it we want it we want it' screamed the carebears. CCP puts it in... 'oh no, now the exact things everyone warned us about are happening! nerf them!!!' Meh.... (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
chillz	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:04:00 - [35] How about you go out in your cheap ass frigate, open the can and get your arse handed to you. Go back to the station and get your OMGWTFPWNmobile and take advantage of the priate being flagged themselves. They'll probably still be laughing at the Civilian Sheild Booster you had fitted. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
Temi	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:04:00 - [36] Originally by: Jennai and the anti-gankers can bait the gankers by having a guy mine with cloaked gangmates nearby. have you actually tried this? :P Spelling errors ahoy..
Theonlystd	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:06:00 - [37] Wow is that really the message you want to send new players? I mean this is supposed to be a good community. Part of the reason i signed up. If i saw a can with free stuff and even if it warned me id still do it. Who'd except a vet to gank yea for craps in giggles in a game with a good "community" Wont kill the game but im sure a few poeple will quit over it ------------------------------------------- Aye Spellcheck is beyond me along with propper grammer.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:08:00 - [38] Originally by: DarkStar251 so, the carebears were desparate for Jetcan flagging. 'No!' shouted everyone else, 'For a start jettisoning stuff is what you do when you no longer want it, you are discarding it, and secondly it will lead to people blowing up newbs and moving the miners mins to a new can so he cant collect them!' 'We want it we want it we want it' screamed the carebears. CCP puts it in... 'oh no, now the exact things everyone warned us about are happening! nerf them!!!' Meh.... qft Nail, head, IMPACT. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Selic	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:10:00 - [39] Well, it was nice to find belts that weren't nearly or completely stripped tonight. I did have a few losers show up in battleships and flag me, fully knowing that I was completely outfitted with mining lasers. For those macro hunters out there, I guess all I can say is check employment history and standings before flagging possible players.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:11:00 - [40] Originally by: Temi Originally by: Jennai and the anti-gankers can bait the gankers by having a guy mine with cloaked gangmates nearby. have you actually tried this? :P people did it in oursulaert today against some pirates who were can baiting outside a station, they killed a wolf and 2 T1 cruisers and something else, some of them with T2 kit and cloaks.
LTHenrich Lehmann	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:55:00 - [41] Edited by: LTHenrich Lehmann on 17/12/2005 11:58:43 Edited by: LTHenrich Lehmann on 17/12/2005 11:56:00 Originally by: DarkStar251 so, the carebears were desparate for Jetcan flagging. 'No!' shouted everyone else, 'For a start jettisoning stuff is what you do when you no longer want it, you are discarding it, and secondly it will lead to people blowing up newbs and moving the miners mins to a new can so he cant collect them!' 'We want it we want it we want it' screamed the carebears. CCP puts it in... 'oh no, now the exact things everyone warned us about are happening! nerf them!!!' Meh.... Er no matter how much I tried I cannot disagree with a single thing you said here
Selena 001	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:57:00 - [42] Originally by: dark sea oh man, if you name your jetcan "free stuff" and trap noobs with that then you are a gigantic looser, simple. Yet people still do it? Aparently theres quite a buzz from killing a n00b ship... fantastic way of driving new players away as well... ___________ Dont mind me, I'm Forum-Whoring cause I dont have anything better to do with my life... Trying to add a little humor to YOUR life.
Reverend John	Posted - 2005.12.17 12:02:00 - [43] there needs to be a timer. E&B had something like this. But you were giving x amount of time to loot. After the timer ran out it was free. What e&B did was to lock the can and no one but gang/corp member could even open the can to loot it
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.17 12:11:00 - [44] Originally by: Reverend John there needs to be a timer. E&B had something like this. But you were giving x amount of time to loot. After the timer ran out it was free. What e&B did was to lock the can and no one but gang/corp member could even open the can to loot it EVE doesn't do solutions that make carebears perfectly safe. there's always a way around it to keep some element of risk in high sec, and in this case it serves the most excellent purpose of letting us kill macro miners.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.17 12:14:00 - [45] If you lose a ship because you cannot read a message then the ship loss is the least of your problems.
Jareth Mace	Posted - 2005.12.17 12:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Jennai in this case it serves the most excellent purpose of letting us kill macro miners. Now, having spent most of my time as a miner, and fervently of the non-macro variety (ouch me poor wrist!) how is this used? I can see how you could get their hauler flagged by emptying and rejettisoning the can..but how would you get the actual mining ships flagged? Macro miners rank somewhere below ore-thieves so, any means to disrupt their dollar for isk sweatshopping is worthy..
Shannon Casull	Posted - 2005.12.17 12:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Jennai EVE doesn't do solutions that make carebears perfectly safe. there's always a way around it to keep some element of risk in high sec, and in this case it serves the most excellent purpose of letting us kill macro miners. I don't get it. How does can flagging allow people to gank macro miners any more than before RMR?
Flyer11	Posted - 2005.12.17 13:01:00 - [48] Edited by: Flyer11 on 17/12/2005 13:03:26 Originally by: dark sea oh man, if you name your jetcan "free stuff" and trap noobs with that then you are a gigantic looser, simple. iu was in oursulaert yesturday on my empire alt, was a raven sat outside OURS III station with a can saying free stuff had 1 unit of trit in it and some units of large ammo .. mainly noobs in frigs kept taking it.. allowing the raven pilot to blow the hell of them.. main question is.. if people do this to 1 day noobs in system who have just started, this must mean they cant handle a real pvp fight.. it is sad tho, they really should come to low sec then see what they can pvp i agree with many of the points of the "steal message" if they really can't read it or just can't be arsed then it's the least of their worries loosing there ship.. but i do find it quite sad when people sit in a bs or bc waiting to gank someone.. go to low sec gank everyone u like lol RED-A Member
Deka Ekato	Posted - 2005.12.17 13:53:00 - [49] Ok, I might have used the word "exploit" incorrectly, but I did see some players exploiting the "Kill Rights" ability, just so they can have a few cheap laughs. Ok, I can understand that if a person does not pay attention to the warning pop up, ( I orriginally did not know about this ), that player should be punished, but come on, these pirates are specificcally are targeting new players who still don't know any better. All I am saying is that the "Kill Rights" ability should be adjusted , (not removed ), to avoid this. Give the new player a chance. And I'm not saying this just because I myself am a new player, but this could drive new players away when they get killed on their first day.
Hast	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:07:00 - [50] Originally by: DarkStar251 so, the carebears were desparate for Jetcan flagging. 'No!' shouted everyone else, 'For a start jettisoning stuff is what you do when you no longer want it, you are discarding it, and secondly it will lead to people blowing up newbs and moving the miners mins to a new can so he cant collect them!' 'We want it we want it we want it' screamed the carebears. CCP puts it in... 'oh no, now the exact things everyone warned us about are happening! nerf them!!!' Meh.... omg, your hammer just pwned the nail
Aterr Terradon	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Beth Young Edited by: Beth Young on 17/12/2005 08:09:51 This also has the added disadvantage (that I've experienced a bit of tonight) of noobs not trusting you when you're genuinely trying to help out. There should be a way to mark a container as public (without the ability to turn it back into an owned can) so that it's blatantly obvious what's bait and what's honest freebies. Agreed. kind of like when you deploy a can. Private or Corp. In the case of Jet Cans Private (Corp or Gang) and No Claim (Like they were before RMR) and as for Loot Cans, that could be set like most games, as Looting Rights. Gang or Free For All. (Ok ... so I got the idea from EnB... but I did play that for 2 years as well)
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:44:00 - [52] Edited by: Galk on 17/12/2005 14:46:18 Edited by: Galk on 17/12/2005 14:45:13 Originally by: Avon Originally by: DarkStar251 so, the carebears were desparate for Jetcan flagging. 'No!' shouted everyone else, 'For a start jettisoning stuff is what you do when you no longer want it, you are discarding it, and secondly it will lead to people blowing up newbs and moving the miners mins to a new can so he cant collect them!' 'We want it we want it we want it' screamed the carebears. CCP puts it in... 'oh no, now the exact things everyone warned us about are happening! nerf them!!!' Meh.... qft Nail, head, IMPACT. Tosh, you both care to forget mr new player doesn't share your 2 years of insight of eve. People caught doing this should be warned of their conduct, it continues, then ban. These exact same tossers are the ones that created the serp patroller player characters ect at the start. Pure greifers just getting kicks for fun... it doesn't suprise me to see certain members of our 'great community' defending this bs:/ ----------- She says It's only in my head She says Shhh I know it's only in my head
Jarnis McPieksu	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:51:00 - [53] Originally by: Niki Silver Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu Maybe devs should make a news item warning everyone...? Lots of people are falling for it. Maybe even work this into the tutorial at some point? Are you the guy that lobbied for the law requiring that big huge tag on hair dryer cords that says warning: do not use while in the bath tub? Stupid people deserve to suffer the consequences of thier own stupidity. I have no issues when a week old character fails the reading comprehension and gets blown up. But when 30min old char gets ganked because he peeked into a can and didn't know how game mechanics worked - that's when I get ****ed, at the ganker. Heck, if the ganker is sitting at 100km with BS, the noob might just look around and ignore the message just because he doesn't understand the mechanics. So, explaining this to noobs in the tutorial = good idea IMHO. Now if they still get killed after they have been told in gory detail how the mechanics with cans work, THEN its their own fault.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.17 14:53:00 - [54] Originally by: Galk Edited by: Galk on 17/12/2005 14:46:18 Edited by: Galk on 17/12/2005 14:45:13 Originally by: Avon Originally by: DarkStar251 so, the carebears were desparate for Jetcan flagging. 'No!' shouted everyone else, 'For a start jettisoning stuff is what you do when you no longer want it, you are discarding it, and secondly it will lead to people blowing up newbs and moving the miners mins to a new can so he cant collect them!' 'We want it we want it we want it' screamed the carebears. CCP puts it in... 'oh no, now the exact things everyone warned us about are happening! nerf them!!!' Meh.... qft Nail, head, IMPACT. Tosh, you both care to forget mr new player doesn't share your 2 years of insight of eve. People caught doing this should be warned of their conduct, it continues, then ban. These exact same tossers are the ones that created the serp patroller player characters ect at the start. Pure greifers just getting kicks for fun... it doesn't suprise me to see certain members of our 'great community' defending this bs:/ No amount of previous experience matters when it comes to a completely new game mechanic. We all get the same warnings. Everything has unfolded as predicted, included the moaning. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Nicholai Pestot	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:01:00 - [55] Originally by: Galk Edited by: Galk on 17/12/2005 14:46:18 Edited by: Galk on 17/12/2005 14:45:13 Originally by: Avon Originally by: DarkStar251 so, the carebears were desparate for Jetcan flagging. 'No!' shouted everyone else, 'For a start jettisoning stuff is what you do when you no longer want it, you are discarding it, and secondly it will lead to people blowing up newbs and moving the miners mins to a new can so he cant collect them!' 'We want it we want it we want it' screamed the carebears. CCP puts it in... 'oh no, now the exact things everyone warned us about are happening! nerf them!!!' Meh.... qft Nail, head, IMPACT. Tosh, you both care to forget mr new player doesn't share your 2 years of insight of eve. People caught doing this should be warned of their conduct, it continues, then ban. These exact same tossers are the ones that created the serp patroller player characters ect at the start. Pure greifers just getting kicks for fun... it doesn't suprise me to see certain members of our 'great community' defending this bs:/ Oh i see, like that is it? So when a miner leaves stuff out in space inside a trashcan he should be able to defend it, but if an ebil pirate, minding his own buisness, decides to leave some equipment temporarily in a trashcan and someone steals it, he's a griefer DAMN YOU PIRATE HATERS,DAMN YOOOOooooooo!!! -------------------------------------- I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant
Cigney	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:13:00 - [56] Quote: people did it in oursulaert today against some pirates who were can baiting outside a station, they killed a wolf and 2 T1 cruisers and something else, some of them with T2 kit and cloaks. Well, that brings up a question that isn't really clear to me... from your description, once a player steals from a can he's criminally flagged to the cans owner, who can then open fire without CONCORD repercussion. Once he does, then the original thief can fire back. Can the thiefs gangmates and/or corpmates open fire on the original 'victim' as well once he starts hostilities? It sounds from your description that they can. If the original theft victim was ganged, can his gangmates also open up on the thief? I'm assuming so, else mining op defenders would be useless against player ore thieves. If all the above ganging questions are yes, then it does lead to the interesting scenario where two corps no longer need to war dec each other for free empire PvP. Just bring the fleets, and trade a jet can.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:19:00 - [57] Edited by: Galk on 17/12/2005 15:20:44 Umm yeah... You forgot to mention though Mr pirate (lets just call him greifer) only leaves that can there with a name called 'free stuff' so he can then blow up mr inocent unknowing newb... umm ill say this because i can't think for the life of me why he would be sitting in a starter system with guns fully loaded If people read and understood all the warnings, there wouldn't be a market for it. Sadly ofcourse it happens, just like the saps that realy did think it was a serp patroller, and not a player (i mean come on.. it was obvious it wasn't an npc) Yet ofcourse the gm's saw people were exploiting that one purely to greif the unsuspecting. This one any different... course not... but we are are in a forum and take the risk reward bunch, the haters, trolls, and ofcourse those that will just want to blat for a few hours because there bored at work... and ofcourse there will be perfectly reasons why this should be allowed to happen. It's greifing folks, plain and simple, anyway im done, you guys can argue it away into the sunset. ----------- She says It's only in my head She says Shhh I know it's only in my head
Andicuri Vas	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Galk Tosh, you both care to forget mr new player doesn't share your 2 years of insight of eve. People caught doing this should be warned of their conduct, it continues, then ban. These exact same tossers are the ones that created the serp patroller player characters ect at the start. Pure greifers just getting kicks for fun... it doesn't suprise me to see certain members of our 'great community' defending this bs:/ The fact is that every single loss that I've incurred in EVE has without fail, been the result of my own greed, ignorance, stupidity, laziness or impatience. Have I been tricked into employing some of my lesser character traits? Absolutely! But each time has provided me with an invaluable learning opportunity, and I have the griefers gankers and scammers to thank for my survival today. It is the beauty and complexity of the game that keeps me coming back, not the idea of Shangri-la in space. I already know that people can be a$$*****. The long haul players are the ones that can harden themselves to the ugly facts about human nature and I have met alot of them. So if a newbie quits after getting griefed for the first ( Second, Third ) time, well he/she probably just doesn't have the DNA for a life here anyway. I don't say this to defend griefing. I am not a griefer. I say this because I am in no hurry to see EVE become a mass market playhouse where people are wrapped in protective bubbles until they achieve uber-hood. We wanted criminal flagging. We got it. A V
Andrue	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Inspiration Someone will have moved the ore into his own Jetcan and is nearby in a BS and will go in for the kill, taking out ship of the player that comes back for 'HIS' own ore. The realy offending player will be richer a few best named cargo expanders! Oh noes! And so many people can't read the popup warning or fail to spot the corp ticker against the can! What are we to do? RMR is forcing us to continue using our brains and paying attention to what we do! How will we all survive? -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Inspiration	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:11:00 - [60] Edited by: Inspiration on 17/12/2005 16:14:31 Originally by: Wolfgang Jager I hope they fix it, adding some sort of timer/distance radius or something after which stuff becomes "neutral" again. The solution is simple, it always was.... 1. You cannot put stuff in someone elses can unless the can belongs to gangmember etc. 2. Tag the items with a legidimate owner and put a timer on that. 3. Make items of different owners unstackable. 4. Instead of a warning when opening someone elses can, put the warning on the stack of items. This way, robbing stuff and putting it in your own can, etc wont work, the 'victim' can simply take it back free of risk. The only player at risk is the initial thief, plain and simple. The above i figured out in just under two minutes, CCP had months to get something working figured out. Sheesh, how hard can it be? So yes, it's fixable but won't be easy i guess, their whole datamodelling is wrong and centered around the can, not the goods being stolen. In the end, no one cares about the can, its about the good afterall! Check out my resistance calculator. WARNING: It is not RMR ready, mail me the stacking penalty math so I can fix this!
Forino Ovoli	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:48:00 - [61] Someone above posted about all the abandoned cans in systems now. So we get a drone nerf, to reduce the amount of items in space and swap it for a bunch of cans that lazy folks leave behind 'cause they aren't interested in cleaning up the battlefield. IMHO, the rat loot cans should have some kind of timer on them such that they revert to public access. For newbies, cleaning up someone else's battlefield mess is a good source of revenue - they should not fear someone's going to kill them for doing it.
Mimio	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:56:00 - [62] I wrote may be ten times that flagging is most idiotic idea . Cannot imagine honest people having some advantage from this idea. But it is quite useful for macrominers, farmers and griefers.
Kay Brack	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:05:00 - [63] You guys worry too much about nubes. The people baiting with "free stuff" cans though are pretty lame. I suppose though if they were not occupied killing velators then they would be off in <0.5 hunting haulers. Being a nube myself i can tell you the best way to help us is by giving advice and letting us learn some crap the hard way. The can rule is fine even on day one in this game i "knew" i shouldn't take stuff that wasn't mine.
eleuthereus	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:12:00 - [64] To All, Ok, I am a noob still, only about 1 1/2 month old, but doing well and enjoying the game. But I want to throw my 2 cents in about this whole can-flagging thing - it is a tragedy. When I first started, one of the things that really helped me (and was really fun) was jumping from system to system on my little courier runs and seeing abandoned cans that had been left by someone who either finished a mission or who deliberately left goodies out of the kindness of their hearts (for guys like me). Sometimes it was ammo, shield extenders, or PDS units - all things that I needed and used. I also sold some things for ISK I desperately needed. Then, I actually remember finding a few cans in high sec space (but sparsely populated) that had some VERY nice treasures (tech II), right next to the gates, clearly left as a present for someone to find. And I received substantial ISK from abandoned cans after various persons completed missions and CLEARLY abandoned their lot cans for the taking. I can honestly say that I was hoping to be able to do this for years to come, and in return, after becoming an experienced player, "do unto others" and pass on a little help to noobs in this very fun way. Well, no more! Thank you CCP. IMHO, this can flagging thing is absurd and has destroyed one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game that made long trips quite fun (you never knew what you might find along the way). I can no longer take stuff, nor can I give stuff, in this way. And even if cans are truly abandoned by mission completers, you still can't take them because you just never know. And even though a warning comes up, there is soooo much to learn about the game, that a noob could easily not quite understand the ramifications of what he is doing -- and certainly not think that someone is deliberately seting him up in their cloaked thorax 20KM out and watching his every move. Not good. This seems to not have been thought out very well at all. Now, we have loot cans LITTERING and I mean littering the stargates. I flew through numerous systems last night and could barely get to the gates because of all the cans lying around everywhere. Stupid, stupid, stupid. That's my noob rant. Free loot cans really helped me out as a noob, but alas, it seems they will help no one else, and I will never know the fun of dropping a few cans of presents for people at gates. sigh. eleuthereus
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:16:00 - [65] Originally by: Dak Hakin yeah you would have to be a real moron if you just ignore the pop-up. I found a jet-can full of modules last night, and I thought for sure there was someone stealthing... But they were not in local Means NOTHING. You are flagged to their CORP. Which IS checkable. You are flagged to their GANG. Which IS NOT checkable. Sigh. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:18:00 - [66] Omg, the irony. "wtf? He took my stuff!!!" 'No, you jetisoned it. That means it is garbage you didn't want.' "That's not fair - I want to kill him" Can flagging introduced. "wtf? look at all the litter." AAaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhHH!!!!!!!! ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:21:00 - [67] You have to be a total loser to go grief noobs this way. If you change the name of the can to "free stuff" and then kill people taking your "free stuff" then IMHO you are exploiting the game mechanics. If it's just a normal jet can where the name hasn't been changed and you wait for someone to "steal" from your can, then it isn't an exploit as far as I'm concerned but it is a nasty way of abusing the game mechanics. ---------
Vinnie Paul	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:25:00 - [68] My suggestion to GM was simply to pick the can baiter and his cans up and drop him in HED , let him see how his game plays out there. Shooting noobs in high security space no matter which of the game mechanics is employed to do it is lame. Much respect given to PVP players who ply their trade in 0.0 space , been there done that and its not easy. Anyone in game long enough to pilot cloaked ships , battleships and the like that can find nothing better to do than shooting Ibis's with their ravens are truly pathetic. Thats not PVP its just target practice.
Deltas Hand	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:28:00 - [69] Edited by: Deltas Hand on 17/12/2005 17:35:57 Oh boo hoo... whiners Yes the baiting griefing idiots are utter morons for doing so but you all whined for flagging since the start of time and now you have it your still whining. Im glad that I now have the ability to shoot and toast that annoying little fool in a hauler coming for my hard mined ores.... Come on you get a warning FFS before you commit the action - Its been said if you are too stupid to notice it then dont whine when you get wasted... Newbies scavving left overs on the battlefield... Sure we should be able to flag things public but you should go kill your own stuff rather than want to steal mine... As for those complaining it creates MORE waste in space... let us not forget that CANS POP AFTER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME.....
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:45:00 - [70] Being able to set a toggle for "claim cans" or not would be nice. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Trevedian	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:47:00 - [71] This is funny... Within an hour after RMR went live we made about a half dozen people fall for this trick... The best I saw was a guy in State War Academy was sitting outside a station in a Vindicator offering free skillbooks to anyone who wanted them... Then his gang would gank any1 who grabbbed a skill... But all you miners wanted a way to combat ore thieves... Now miners will be the ones who suffer most from this change... But if you're looking for fight like we are, ITS ALL GOOD! Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Evit Retsal	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:54:00 - [72] Originally by: Deja Thoris If you lose a ship because you cannot read a message then the ship loss is the least of your problems. Why aren't more people realizing ^^^this^^^. The change to jet-cans was publicly announced, cans are auto-marked with your corp ticker symbol, and you're given a confirmation box to confirm that you're serious about emptying the can in question. What's so difficult to understand here? You're playing a game with completely open PvP (yes, i'll shoot you down in concord space if i feel like it, some days the value of a ship means absolutely nothing to me, that's the risk YOU are taking by playing this game - the risk that there might be people like me out there in space with you today). It should be obvious that you are literally taking your own life in your hands every time you interact with a "stranger" in this game. Someone wants to offer you a gift? Are you having second thoughts about this person's integrity? Something in your gut whispering "don't open the box!" to you? Then don't be an idiot! Don't open the box. Tell them to escrow it to you at the nearest station for the price of 1.00 ISK. What's so freakin' hard about that???? There's more than one way to give someone something in this game, passing things back and forth in jet-cans is NOT the only option. And even then, there's an inherent work-around already in place for this, which an earlier poster to this thread already mentioned. Receiver drops 1 unit of anything (ore, ammo, whatever), and the giver simply puts the gift into the receiver's can. Complicated, i know, but i'll bet anyone smart enough to survive in EVE is smart enough to master the technique. That being said, i must also agree that there should probably be a cool-down timer on NPC-dropped cans which are abandoned by players. Should be a simple thing to implement, and will reduce NPC-can litter, because everyone will go back to cleaning up after people who leave them behind. In addition, i must also agree that this sort of can-baiting is cheap, dirty, and under-handed. All we can do to combat it at this point is to discourage it, and the only way to do that is to ALWAYS take names, and when people pull this kind of crap on you, then make sure you seek the vengeance you're entitled to.
eve's lover	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:00:00 - [73] This is so funny, you cearbears all complain about ppl stealing your loot from lvl 4 missions and ppl stealing your ore from your cans, now u are complaining that ppl are exploting this idear that ccp came up with the "can flagging". Come on, if u dont want ppl stealing your cans move to low sec where u can shoot back or do your missions in systems that dont have 300+ ppl in. Adapt or die. Yer there are loads of added stuff that i hate in this patch but at the end of the day i just adapt and learn to deal with it. CCP gave u guys what u wanted, so Live with it. I recon in need to head to high sec and test this out. Eve warrior
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:08:00 - [74] This game penalizes the weak minded and stupid. If you go randomly looting ** in belts, then you've been awarded with the right to get popped. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever**
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:09:00 - [75] Originally by: Trevedian This is funny... Within an hour after RMR went live we made about a half dozen people fall for this trick... The best I saw was a guy in State War Academy was sitting outside a station in a Vindicator offering free skillbooks to anyone who wanted them... Then his gang would gank any1 who grabbbed a skill... But all you miners wanted a way to combat ore thieves... Now miners will be the ones who suffer most from this change... But if you're looking for fight like we are, ITS ALL GOOD! No offence but how does picking a fight with a new player in their tier 1 frigate offer you a good fight or make you isk when they drop their civilian gear? I can imagine some nice mining traps though for ore theives so Miners will benefit, the loosers will be the new players who fall for this. Maybe it should be put into the tutorial. Anyone griefing starting players has to be a complete idiot to be honest as that will kill Eve. El Presedente Be all you can be, join the Huzzah Armed Forces today!
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:13:00 - [76] Originally by: eve's lover This is so funny, you cearbears all complain about ppl stealing your loot from lvl 4 missions and ppl stealing your ore from your cans, now u are complaining that ppl are exploting this idear that ccp came up with the "can flagging". Come on, if u dont want ppl stealing your cans move to low sec where u can shoot back or do your missions in systems that dont have 300+ ppl in. Adapt or die. Yer there are loads of added stuff that i hate in this patch but at the end of the day i just adapt and learn to deal with it. CCP gave u guys what u wanted, so Live with it. I recon in need to head to high sec and test this out. Eve warrior There is nothing more carebear than using can flagging to kill new players whilst sitting in your battleship in a high sec system. Am sure we'll see the killboards flooded with 'pirates' who never leave NPC corps or high sec and have 1000's of kills of ibis's now. El Presedente Be all you can be, join the Huzzah Armed Forces today!
Morberis	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:18:00 - [77] Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu Maybe devs should make a news item warning everyone...? Lots of people are falling for it. Maybe even work this into the tutorial at some point? The system is very good - except that new players without the knowledge how the system works can be tricked into getting killed. This is all about lack of information. So, instead of rolling back on a good system, how about trying to get the information out? Coming from the point of a trial member something in the tutorial would be nice. I know all you people know how bad it can be, but when you just started the game your not aware just how bad it can be. A post in these forums might not help so much because alot of ppl that try the trial don't look here at all, or take a few days to do so. With the flood of info your fed right when you join its not surprising noobs fall for something like this.
Silberhaar	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:20:00 - [78] There is another possible bug around. When a Concord or Police shoots someone down, the stuff from him is now flagged with the NPC CORP. Which results that the stuff can no longer be taken by anyone. A simple solution is to put a 15 min timer on all jettisoned and loot cans. When the timer runs out then the conti can be looted by everyone with no flagging. Don't forget that secure containers are permanently protected. This will helps everyone!
Tophereon	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:20:00 - [79] I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if I repeat someone else but.... How many times did it take you (as a noob) to learn that if you shoot someone in empire you die a horrible concordogeddon death? Now how many times do you think it will take noobs to learn they cannot take whats not thiers? (Even if the can is labelled 'free stuff') End of story! Toph.
Tophereon	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:23:00 - [80] How about having the option to set cans as 'anyones' therefore still allowing the sharing of stuff and helping of newbs? Then simply have an icon on a can that indicates whether your allowed to take from it or not. Toph.
Tophereon	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:23:00 - [81] Originally by: Silberhaar A simple solution is to put a 15 min timer on all jettisoned and loot cans. When the timer runs out then the conti can be looted by everyone with no flagging. Don't forget that secure containers are permanently protected. This will helps everyone! Also a good idea.. Toph.
Drake Mezcal	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:24:00 - [82] i think its a good idea to hav the loot cans owned by you, but maybe if u warped out then the go public, so u can leave what u dont want for noobs etc, and anythin u do want make sure u get it before u leave
Evit Retsal	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:24:00 - [83] Originally by: Hans Roaming Originally by: eve's lover This is so funny, you cearbears all complain about ppl stealing your loot from lvl 4 missions and ppl stealing your ore from your cans, now u are complaining that ppl are exploting this idear that ccp came up with the "can flagging". Come on, if u dont want ppl stealing your cans move to low sec where u can shoot back or do your missions in systems that dont have 300+ ppl in. Adapt or die. Yer there are loads of added stuff that i hate in this patch but at the end of the day i just adapt and learn to deal with it. CCP gave u guys what u wanted, so Live with it. I recon in need to head to high sec and test this out. Eve warrior There is nothing more carebear than using can flagging to kill new players whilst sitting in your battleship in a high sec system. Am sure we'll see the killboards flooded with 'pirates' who never leave NPC corps or high sec and have 1000's of kills of ibis's now. And this will show all those people who monitor those killboard's, that all these lame pirates are doing is shooting fish in a barrel with a shotgun. i'm sure that all those people on those killboards will be really impressed by that, thus encouraging the lame-O pirates to do it even more often. snort If you do ONE simple thing, which is: pay attention; then you won't be a victim of this sort of piracy.
Drake Mezcal	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:27:00 - [84] do u get flagged for takin a players can in pvp? i meanis it rightfully ur can or theirs?
Gretchen Dawntreader	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:33:00 - [85] having a switch to make a jettisoned item "public" sounds like a good idea but I'm wondering if it's even possible, given that a jettisoned item isn't really a permanent thing. Plus, say you are doing a mission and want to leave all the loot for whoever might want it...gonna fly around and right click on all of them? My first week of play, I was trying to build a ship out of a bpc that dropped for me...I was low on zydrine, someone in the noob channel offered to give me some to help me out. We were outside the same station and he just jettisoned the mins and I picked em up. That spirit of giving and aid to noobs isn't going to happen anymore because 75% of the time it's going to be a trap. I saw people hovering outside Rens BTT the moment RMR launched, sitting around in battleships dropping cans in front of the station exit. It was really sad. This was a tool to prevent malicious acts, and instantly people are using it maliciously. What a bunch of crap! This game is for strategy, daring and planning, building empires. There is no glory in blowing up noob ships. People like that need to be playing Quake 3 Arena or something. You can have a "frag board." It'll be "leet."
Abvrasious	Posted - 2005.12.17 18:35:00 - [86] Quote: oh man, if you name your jetcan "free stuff" and trap noobs with that then you are a gigantic looser, simple. Lol, but reading this thread wants me to try it once. Might be kind of fun taking out a Bantam on his ship control tutorial from 65km out. :) I will compensate, I just want to do it lol. ------------- Awaiting Destiny
Nirwana Vaughn	Posted - 2005.12.17 19:36:00 - [87] i reckon that when u jettison u shud have an "Available to All" or "Available to Corp/Gang" or summat like on secure tins so that if players want to give stuff away to noobs in space then they can be, then the tins can be tagged differently in overview if they are freely available for the taking so that noobs can tell the difference. if noobs still take the stuff then its their own fault and deserve to be shot
Nirwana Vaughn	Posted - 2005.12.17 19:36:00 - [88] i reckon that when u jettison u shud have an "Available to All" or "Available to Corp/Gang" or summat like on secure tins so that if players want to give stuff away to noobs in space then they can be, then the tins can be tagged differently in overview if they are freely available for the taking so that noobs can tell the difference. if noobs still take the stuff then its their own fault and deserve to be shot
Vzae	Posted - 2005.12.17 19:37:00 - [89] I was the one who got my Wolf destroyed in Oursuleart. What was weird was I was tagged even though I was not stealing anything and jusy viewing the cans. Yes I did saw the warning so I canceled the transfer and no transfer went through. I was still tagged. So if I am not wrong, you are tagged even for viewing the cans.
Vzae	Posted - 2005.12.17 19:37:00 - [90] I was the one who got my Wolf destroyed in Oursuleart. What was weird was I was tagged even though I was not stealing anything and jusy viewing the cans. Yes I did saw the warning so I canceled the transfer and no transfer went through. I was still tagged. So if I am not wrong, you are tagged even for viewing the cans.
Sinari Galdrin	Posted - 2005.12.17 19:45:00 - [91] Originally by: Dak Hakin yeah you would have to be a real moron if you just ignore the pop-up. Not sure about that. If Mr X was flying around and had dropped a can, and I was a newb, and Mr X sent me a message 'take that can, I don't need the stuff in it, it might help', I might ignore the warning thinking that 'Mr X told me to take it, so he won't shoot at me'... For a newbie (maybe one coming from less 'cutthroat' games, looking for something more grown up), I can easily see how you could be taken in. If someone DID want to give a can to someone else now, the warning would make it harder. As has been mentioned before, maybe there should be a way to mark a can as 'public', so it won't flag when taken, or a way to give items to people in space without it having to go via a can.
WolfGang H	Posted - 2005.12.17 19:57:00 - [92] Originally by: Evit Retsal Originally by: Deja Thoris If you lose a ship because you cannot read a message then the ship loss is the least of your problems. Why aren't more people realizing ^^^this^^^. The change to jet-cans was publicly announced, cans are auto-marked with your corp ticker symbol, and you're given a confirmation box to confirm that you're serious about emptying the can in question. What's so difficult to understand here? You're playing a game with completely open PvP (yes, i'll shoot you down in concord space if i feel like it, some days the value of a ship means absolutely nothing to me, that's the risk YOU are taking by playing this game - the risk that there might be people like me out there in space with you today). It should be obvious that you are literally taking your own life in your hands every time you interact with a "stranger" in this game. Someone wants to offer you a gift? Are you having second thoughts about this person's integrity? Something in your gut whispering "don't open the box!" to you? Then don't be an idiot! Don't open the box. Tell them to escrow it to you at the nearest station for the price of 1.00 ISK. What's so freakin' hard about that???? There's more than one way to give someone something in this game, passing things back and forth in jet-cans is NOT the only option. And even then, there's an inherent work-around already in place for this, which an earlier poster to this thread already mentioned. Receiver drops 1 unit of anything (ore, ammo, whatever), and the giver simply puts the gift into the receiver's can. Complicated, i know, but i'll bet anyone smart enough to survive in EVE is smart enough to master the technique. That being said, i must also agree that there should probably be a cool-down timer on NPC-dropped cans which are abandoned by players. Should be a simple thing to implement, and will reduce NPC-can litter, because everyone will go back to cleaning up after people who leave them behind. In addition, i must also agree that this sort of can-baiting is cheap, dirty, and under-handed. All we can do to combat it at this point is to discourage it, and the only way to do that is to ALWAYS take names, and when people pull this kind of crap on you, then make sure you seek the vengeance you're entitled to. This guy 100% has a solid mind. EVERYONE NEEDS to read this. It is written perfectly and reflects the only logical and viable thought pattern. Make it so cans lose ownership after 5-15 minutes (whatever works best). Anyone who ignores the warning and takes stuff from cans before that period has pased puts themselves at risk. --- Have what it takes to join the Guardians of Basgerin?
Semkhet	Posted - 2005.12.17 21:34:00 - [93] The "Free stuff in this can" program is the first combined international effort to promote (and sanction...) correct reading comprehension of popup messages within EVE. It also improves gameplay experience by raising overall game mechanics awareness of inexperienced players. However, it now retrospectively seems that the test we designed is too complicated. Preliminary: The VOLUNTARY test subjects were presented with an item (can) who only could be considered as an incentive either by a) naive, b) stupid or c) greedy individuals. The item was labelled as offering some free goodies. Reading the can's label, approaching the can and taking away the content were actions solely and exclusively dependent of the tested subject's will. Test: BEFORE finalyzing the can content's retrieval, I repeat: BEFORE... A popup appears with the following text: "If you take this, the owner of the can can kick your butt". Sanctions: Individuals disregarding the meaning of the warning (for whatever reason) got their butts kicked. Computed results: 15% of players don't understand english 5% of players understand the warning, but don't believe it. 35% of players don't even bother to read the warning. 30% of players are masochists 15% of players are still studying their abecedary Remark: What most puzzled us is that almost 100% of players were shouting "WTF is doing Concord ?" after having been sanctioned, when we were expecting a mere 65%. This is unfortunately the unequivocal sign of mental problems and we are sorry to have accepted test individuals suffering cognitive conditions. We will refer these individuals to the appropriate organisms in order to be recloned with a better IQ. Stay tuned for our next educative programs in the great serie "English comprehension in EVE's virtual world".
WolfGang H	Posted - 2005.12.17 21:35:00 - [94] Please click here --- Have what it takes to join the Guardians of Basgerin?
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.17 21:43:00 - [95] PS, FYI, if you're in a bomber, attacking the Claw which just looked in your can is NOT a good idea. Just a hint. Next time, the bomber might not be lucky enough to get away in structure. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Claude Leon	Posted - 2005.12.17 21:57:00 - [96] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood hehe i have done this in ours its fun However only attack the ships who stole you can not his drones then you get killed by concord Agreed. Also, You your gangmates can't attack other. When I engaged Lunas, some gangmates tried to engage and they were killed by sentry fire.
Mimio	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:09:00 - [97] Originally by: Silberhaar A simple solution is to put a 15 min timer on all jettisoned and loot cans. When the timer runs out then the conti can be looted by everyone with no flagging. Don't forget that secure containers are permanently protected. This will helps everyone! This idea(btw, from Lineage) is too simple, too effective and too brilliant for CCP
zykerx	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:27:00 - [98] that people fell for this trick is there own fault but pvpers tricking noobs by saying take it, you may have it, i dont need it and name the can free stuff, thats is uber lame kinda pathetic that there are pvpers that need this tactics to get a few killmails for there precious killsite
Rells	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:28:00 - [99] Adding additional options to jetting cans wont stop people from doing this. The only real answer is a popup that you cant checkbox away that will tell you that you will incur an agression flag if you loot that can. ◄ I must not fear. ◄ Fear is the mind-killer. ◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. ◄ -- Paul Atreides
Rells	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:29:00 - [100] Originally by: zykerx that people fell for this trick is there own fault but pvpers tricking noobs by saying take it, you may have it, i dont need it and name the can free stuff, thats is uber lame kinda pathetic that there are pvpers that need this tactics to get a few killmails for there precious killsite People new to the game wouldnt know any better and your arrogant condemnation is irrational and poorly motivated. ◄ I must not fear. ◄ Fear is the mind-killer. ◄ Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. ◄ -- Paul Atreides
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:44:00 - [101] Originally by: Mimio Originally by: Silberhaar A simple solution is to put a 15 min timer on all jettisoned and loot cans. When the timer runs out then the conti can be looted by everyone with no flagging. Don't forget that secure containers are permanently protected. This will helps everyone! This idea(btw, from Lineage) is too simple, too effective and too brilliant for CCP No, its that most missions arent finished in 15 minutes Einstein. Therefore such a short timer is ineffective and stupid. Since cans disappear after about 2 hours, making the flag disappear after a longer timeframe is moot.
FUna	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:45:00 - [102] Edited by: FUna on 17/12/2005 22:46:06 The carebears said, "OMGWTF! Ore theives are teh sux0r! We watn jet can flagging FTW!" Experienced miners said, "No wai! Its a grief tool for the pie rats!" Carebears replied, "LOL! STFU n00b! We want to kill teh ore theifs! CCP give us jetc an flagging now!!" The experienced miners shrugged their shoulders and went back to mining with a buddy in an hauler or using secure cans. The pie rats sat silently acting innocent and trying not to be noticed. CCP implemented the jet can flags. Carebears are now screaming "OMGWTF! WE AER GETTING GRIEFDE!!!! CCP IS SO ST00PID FOR PUTTING JET CAN FLAGGIN IN TEH GAME!!! ARGH! I KNOW BETTER THEN THES DUM DEVS!" -----
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:48:00 - [103] Originally by: Rells Originally by: zykerx that people fell for this trick is there own fault but pvpers tricking noobs by saying take it, you may have it, i dont need it and name the can free stuff, thats is uber lame kinda pathetic that there are pvpers that need this tactics to get a few killmails for there precious killsite People new to the game wouldnt know any better and your arrogant condemnation is irrational and poorly motivated. I'm sorry, if you cant read then suffer the consequences. Pandering to idiots is the reason we have warnings on cups about "hot" coffee. Peanut packets that contain the warning "this product may contain traces of nuts" Let nature do its work ffs!
Avaleric	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:51:00 - [104] ...only one weapon against crap like this: SPREAD THE WORD... - Ignorance is bliss...
MysticNZ	Posted - 2005.12.17 22:51:00 - [105] The whole can flagging thing is stupid and I cannot belive CPP felt it nesscary to add this. Originally by: Nyphur I'm hungry and naked. That answer your question?
CdCommander	Posted - 2005.12.18 00:01:00 - [106] tbh I like the kill right thing makes empire fun for once
O Thief	Posted - 2005.12.18 00:59:00 - [107] Originally by: FUna Edited by: FUna on 17/12/2005 22:46:06 The carebears said, "OMGWTF! Ore theives are teh sux0r! We watn jet can flagging FTW!" Experienced miners said, "No wai! Its a grief tool for the pie rats!" Carebears replied, "LOL! STFU n00b! We want to kill teh ore theifs! CCP give us jetc an flagging now!!" The experienced miners shrugged their shoulders and went back to mining with a buddy in an hauler or using secure cans. The pie rats sat silently acting innocent and trying not to be noticed. CCP implemented the jet can flags. Carebears are now screaming "OMGWTF! WE AER GETTING GRIEFDE!!!! CCP IS SO ST00PID FOR PUTTING JET CAN FLAGGIN IN TEH GAME!!! ARGH! I KNOW BETTER THEN THES DUM DEVS!" Am I the only one who finds the use of the word 'teh' in place of 'the' rather irritating, often indicative of an age beginning with 1, and somewhat pointless?
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2005.12.18 02:10:00 - [108] Originally by: O Thief Am I the only one who finds the use of the word 'teh' in place of 'the' rather irritating, often indicative of an age beginning with 1, and somewhat pointless? This is the internet, get used to it. Or be annoyed. On the whole can flagging "abuse"; learn to read. Problem solved. p - l - u - r
Ghoest	Posted - 2005.12.18 02:28:00 - [109] Actually this is what you should say "This is teh internet - I use 'teh' because I want to be seen as 12 year old."
FUna	Posted - 2005.12.18 03:23:00 - [110] Originally by: O Thief Am I the only one who finds the use of the word 'teh' in place of 'the' rather irritating, often indicative of an age beginning with 1, and somewhat pointless? That was "teh" point. Am I the only person who finds the lack of English reading comprehension skills rather irritating? -----
Jared VonBargen	Posted - 2005.12.18 04:16:00 - [111] i agree its a good idea, just change it a bit, leave rat drops and the like public, because alot of people just kill the rats and leave, but as this was created for ore thieveing and the like, have an option to turn a can 'private' but not passworded. ive been flagged dozens of times just picking up rat cans. at first id wait to ask them in local, but alot of the time they are out system or logged by then. so youre saying a corpmember of him could then kill me because he left stuff floating? or another thing, make them private, but if they log or leave system it goes public.
Chy Rhuwan	Posted - 2005.12.18 05:17:00 - [112] You guys do know this is just a ploy to give free items to people who build Dreads in 1.0 space don't you? I mean honestly, you've got 3 cloaked Stealth Bombers waiting to ***the person who dares take a BPC from a can (Gotta have good loot to make them try it, costs nothing if you've got the BPO, lose almost nothing if you lose a shuttle BPC). In comes the pretty Moros, Moros takes the contents of the can and announces to local, "Oh deary me, I hope nobody attacks me for being a can thief". Moros waddles away. Last message in local to campers from the Moros, "That's what I thought, ***es."
DarkBluePanther007	Posted - 2005.12.18 05:29:00 - [113] The flagging was useless, so what if you had to pick up your cans after killing several rats? So what if you had to work with a hauler not to get robbed, while mining, or dock regularly at a station to empty instead of using cans, or use secure cans? "yeah but it's good it gives us a chance to pvp in empure space"... Why the world would you need to pvp in empire space, you have several 0.0 to 0.4 places for that? Empire space is already laggy enough as it is! instauring a pvp arena would have been better...
Shugo Kazuma	Posted - 2005.12.18 05:40:00 - [114] Unownerise the cans after 30-45 mins. If your mission takes longer than that, pay a few thousand to a corp mate or someone you trust with a hauler to pick up your crap behind you. I hearing things like systems littered with can debris in the belts because no one's willing to touch a can that will flag them now in fear that someone's got a cloaked battleship hanging around waitting to gank the first person who comes by. Reducing lag by removing drones won't work if it's immediatly replaced with lag induced by cans floating all over the place instead.
Eighthsyn	Posted - 2005.12.18 05:58:00 - [115] The Big Scam hehe was my introduction into the game... I have no false beliefs after reading this that I am to ever be truley safe in any sec 1.0 to 0.0. They give you 14 days to try out the game, your noob ship goes BOOM!! they give you a new one free of charge, live die move on. "This is a story of deception, intrigue, and doublecrossing. It is a story of liars, bandits, and greed. It is a story of the worst of the human condition, and how the motive for profit will drive a normally nice guy to the deepest depths of evil and betrayal. This is the story of my life in Eve Online." I didn't sign up for a year for a bubble wrapped game.
Tony Fats	Posted - 2005.12.18 06:33:00 - [116] You can thank carebear miners for this situation. They couldn't just mine SMARTLY and avoid thieves, no that takes too much work, so they had to ask the devs to spend time making the game moron-proof. Well they gave you what you asked for. Bon appetit. Why don't you just leave the mechanics alone and let the PLAYERS do things more intelligently? Instead of dumbing the game down to support carebear miners?
Ice Coldbrew	Posted - 2005.12.18 07:00:00 - [117] Originally by: Tony Fats You can thank carebear miners for this situation. They couldn't just mine SMARTLY and avoid thieves, no that takes too much work, so they had to ask the devs to spend time making the game moron-proof. Well they gave you what you asked for. Bon appetit. Why don't you just leave the mechanics alone and let the PLAYERS do things more intelligently? Instead of dumbing the game down to support carebear miners? QFE
Rhyslin	Posted - 2005.12.18 07:55:00 - [118] You know, what I love to do is to put a piece of furniture out on my driveway with a "Take me" sign, then shoot the suckers when they cart it away. When the police come, I just point at the "No Trespassing" sign.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.18 08:43:00 - [119] Well, I suggested a few weeks ago that people should be able to 'mark' their cans as their property, if they wish and then the new rules would apply, with the big warning when somebody open them. If you don't 'mark' them, they stay free-for-all. Could have been done via a overview function, like 'tagging' in gang works, so people could mark their ore and loot cans in a second with a right click in the overview or on the can. (posted some more details) That would have avoided all the newbie problems. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Shugo Kazuma	Posted - 2005.12.18 08:56:00 - [120] Originally by: Tony Fats Why don't you just leave the mechanics alone and let the PLAYERS do things more intelligently? Instead of dumbing the game down to support carebear miners? You know, it wasn't just miners, the missioning/PvE community was asking for this. They complainned that people were stealing their loot cans in the belts and stuff or during their mission and they couldn't do jack about it with out being concordoned. As is, it's not bad, but it can always be tweaked so that we aren't screwing over new people or the people aredeously clean up systems of abandonded rat hunter cans too much.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:35:00 - [121] Back to basics. Either a can is trash as originally intended, and flagging should be scrapped or a can is the property of the owner, and can be defended with lethal force (as it is now) Taking from a can is right or wrong, no shades of grey, and that is how it should be reflected in the game mechanics. Warnings are in place, just like they are with low-sec space. It is up to the individual to take some responsibility for their own actions. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:38:00 - [122] they are now owned unsecured cans u steal from it u take the penalty current system works fine as is no changes needed CCP please restore the recruitment channel
fl0pski	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:42:00 - [123] noobships are free anyway. plus they get to learn a very valuable lesson.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:53:00 - [124] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 18/12/2005 09:54:51 Originally by: sonofollo they are now owned unsecured cans u steal from it u take the penalty current system works fine as is no changes needed Well, my intention was, that you are free to make the decisions: 'Hey, this is my can. If you touch it I'm gonna kill you !' (in that case I'd mark my cans) or 'I gon't want that loot can. It's only trash for me. Who ever wants it may take it or just let it float in space. I don't care.' (so I wouldn't mark it as mine and it would stay the standard free-for-all jetcan) I suggested it only, because some newbies said that they are flying around and collecting cans that nobody wants without the intention to 'steal' something. Finally everyone will adapt, no matter how the system is. For me it's pointless anyway. I thought about trying to grief some macro miners with my Manticore, but lack the time to try it out. I must admit that I also thought about killing other people a bit in empire, who don't understand the system yet, but I didn't do it because I usually don't pick on poor carebears without a reason just to get something to shoot. I'm not fully on the dark side yet. Hehe. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:55:00 - [125] I took a macro miner's can after all his ships left the belt, and I didn't get the warning popup or the aggression timer. is this a change to only apply the flag if the owner is present (to allow abandoned loot cans), or is it just a bug?
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:55:00 - [126] read the dev blog it explains it quite clearly (useful tool) but really a non event. CCP please restore the recruitment channel
Siren Shiva	Posted - 2005.12.18 09:59:00 - [127] Originally by: Mimio Originally by: Silberhaar A simple solution is to put a 15 min timer on all jettisoned and loot cans. When the timer runs out then the conti can be looted by everyone with no flagging. Don't forget that secure containers are permanently protected. This will helps everyone! This idea(btw, from Lineage) is too simple, too effective and too brilliant for CCP But no! The careminers would complain that they still are not protected from ore thieves while jetcan mining. I doubt they'd want to make a new can every 15 minutes.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.18 10:29:00 - [128] Originally by: Siren Shiva Originally by: Mimio Originally by: Silberhaar A simple solution is to put a 15 min timer on all jettisoned and loot cans. When the timer runs out then the conti can be looted by everyone with no flagging. Don't forget that secure containers are permanently protected. This will helps everyone! This idea(btw, from Lineage) is too simple, too effective and too brilliant for CCP But no! The careminers would complain that they still are not protected from ore thieves while jetcan mining. I doubt they'd want to make a new can every 15 minutes. the macro miners would do it, and then there would be no way to kill them.
DarkStar251	Posted - 2005.12.18 12:02:00 - [129] People saying this is greifing are not thinking it through. EVE is a game where generally if its possible to do you are allowed to do it. You can use social engineering to work your way into a corp and steal all its assets. You CAN kill someone ANYWHERE, you just have to deal with the consequenses. The Carebears here moaned that they wanted this change (which the rest of us tried to tell them was a STUPID idea) but mow its in they complain about it. They are whining against themselves ffs. There shouldnt be rules (unwritten or otherwise) about what you can do but shouldnt do or its an exploit. Saying 'we put in this new flagging system, but if you trick someone into taking stuff to get flagged then we will ban you' is stupid. a) Using the flagging system to kill Macrominers means a ban. b) You can steal from anyone, then when they blow you up, report them (say they told you you could have it) and they get banned. There are 2 options here, as Avon has rightly said before me. a) Jetisoning is for stuff you want to give away/no longer want, and flagging should be COMPLETELY removed. b) Jetisoning is to make mining easier, flagging is right, newbs will die, as they are stealing. Wanting even MORE randomly complex game mechanics added (because newbs dont have enough to learn) only makes the situation MORE 'exploitable' (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Time Killer	Posted - 2005.12.18 12:09:00 - [130] Trapping and ganking 2 hour old n00bs 4tl. Lame.
Deka Ekato	Posted - 2005.12.18 12:12:00 - [131] Ok, i agree that people who can't read should be punished. All I would like to see being stopped is the event in which a pirate dumps a can, with the name of "Free Stuff", then hangs around for a careless player to pick it up and then blowing the noob thief to kingdom come. That's what was occuring in a 1.0 starter zone. It is this practice that I would like to see stopped. Yes, the Eve universe is a dog eat dog kind, and should remain so, afterall it is a game of strategy, but the above practice is so dam low.
Fooball	Posted - 2005.12.18 12:27:00 - [132] It's all valid tactics. And damned fun And educates the newbies.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.18 12:43:00 - [133] Originally by: Deka Ekato That's what was occuring in a 1.0 starter zone. It is this practice that I would like to see stopped. Yes, the Eve universe is a dog eat dog kind, and should remain so, afterall it is a game of strategy, but the above practice is so dam low. so is ganking newb ships who autopilot through lowsec, but people still do it. after they die to something the first time, they learn not to do it any more.
Mabochu	Posted - 2005.12.18 12:55:00 - [134] It simply amazes me how $%^&ing stupid people can be. If you play this game it's clear that you can read & write to some degree, warnings in the game don't use big long complected explanations they are plan and simple. So that being true why o $%^#ing why do people ***** and whine when they get the ass handed to them by gankers that manage to trick them??? the simple reason is most MMO's or even single player games require no thought in to the actions you perform. People b!%^ed and whined about ore\loot thieves so a method was put in place to counter it (needless to say that there was already a method around ore thieves secure cans... ) Now i may have only been playing Eve for a little over a month, and the reason I decided to stay is that it hasn't been tainted as much by the "I want my I-Win button generation" and that there was a real death penalty, also the fact that nothing was entirely safe. The next thing that the whiners will want is a full insurance policy that covers every thing you have on your ship + the implants in your head if you get poded. (sounds much to like the graveyard system that was put in to EQ to get people to go dungeon crawling again and ruined the element of risk in that game) What I'm basically trying to say is if you make the game safer you DO NOT enhance the game play you ruin it. Now this thing with the flagging my not seem like a big thing but it is a step in the wrong direction leave it as is or remove it altogether don't try to change it. If you want simple go play WoW or hell EQ2 is now almost as lame..err..Simple but $%^&ing quit trying push this game in to a dumbed down version as it's one of the very few that have real consequences for actions/inactions. You are given options what path you want to take in this game ignore the warnings at you own cost. A little bit of common sense goes a long way it's a pity that very few people seem to have it these days which is why we have the scum of the earth litigation lawyers and people suing cause they burnt there tongue on a cup of coffee so now you can only luke warm - cold $%^ing coffee no one wants to take responsibility for there actions/inactions... "Don't grab the rose if you can't handle the thorns" /Rant off P.S flame away no one cares
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.18 13:09:00 - [135] Originally by: Mabochu People b!%^ed and whined about ore\loot thieves so a method was put in place to counter it (needless to say that there was already a method around ore thieves secure cans... ) except you couldn't use them in 0.8+, they're relatively expensive, you have to deploy them 5km apart, and you need four of them to hold one hauler of ore. Quote:* If you want simple go play WoW or hell EQ2 is now almost as lame..err..Simple but $%^&ing quit trying push this game in to a dumbed down version as it's one of the very few that have real consequences for actions/inactions. how is this dumbed down? smart players can use it to kill ore thieves, macro hunters can use it to kill macro miners. dumbed down would be completely removing the ability to mess with other people's jetcans, which would make the macro miners untouchable.
Mabochu	Posted - 2005.12.18 13:29:00 - [136] Forgive me if I'm wrong but there isn't much worth mining in 0.8+ systems nice to get your toes wet and decide if you want to keep mining or run mission/hunt rats for ISK but hardly an ideal place to setup a mid sized mining operation isn't it? Never said that the current implementation of the flagging was dumbed down but I did imply that it was the step in the wrong direction and that if they changed it to be fool proof it would be a very large step in the wrong direction, as it stands now it can be used to benefit/protect or to lay traps (Which i don't fully condone but if people are that ignorant ignore the warning well what can ya say other than to say that they deserve it?) But what would i know as I've said I've only been playing for a little over a month. I like most of what i have seen so far of Eve guess I just don't what to see it fall in to the same hole as many other MMO's have and cater for the "I-Win gen" aka PS2/Xbox gen etc where there is always a safety net there to pick you up if you fall with little to no risk.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.18 13:45:00 - [137] Originally by: Mabochu Forgive me if I'm wrong but there isn't much worth mining in 0.8+ systems nice to get your toes wet and decide if you want to keep mining or run mission/hunt rats for ISK but hardly an ideal place to setup a mid sized mining operation isn't it? look at the macro miners, there are heaps of them in 0.9-1.0 because there's no npcs. the only other miners here are newbs and afk industrials, and they're usually outnumbered by the macro miners. Quote: But what would i know as I've said I've only been playing for a little over a month. I like most of what i have seen so far of Eve guess I just don't what to see it fall in to the same hole as many other MMO's have and cater for the "I-Win gen" aka PS2/Xbox gen etc where there is always a safety net there to pick you up if you fall with little to no risk. EVE won't go in that direction. a lot of people wanted a way to fight ore thieves and mission loot thieves, and now they have it, carefully balanced to leave a way for the thieves to have their own fun with it. total carebear mechanics with no loopholes would kill EVE like Trammel killed UO.
Mabochu	Posted - 2005.12.18 14:18:00 - [138] Yes it would, and i surly hope that it never takes that path, and as i said before they should leave it the way it is now or remove it entirely. I'm looking forward to playing this game a long time but with all these BS posts about how they need to change this and that to make it safer/easier gets me a little edgy, because it reminds me so very much about how EQ went down hill with the release of Shadows of Lucin. Which first introduced free fast limited travel and got blown out to mass free fast travel with PoP and other things that detracted from that game. (The only game I can compare of how things went from good to bad is EQ as I stuck with it for about 6Years and saw many, many changes and towards the end most of them were not for the good of the game.)
Ander	Posted - 2005.12.18 14:35:00 - [139] Dude... This kind of tactic was common in Ultima Online. People would have wars between guilds or kill eachother intra guild. It'd leave a corpse behind on the ground. When guildmembers looted eachother it would display on everyones screen in the viscinity, as well as "stealing" from the corpse using a skill. Some newbies would always go try and join the looting of the corpse, but... as it was in UO this would render them criminal within towns and get the attention of the equivilent of concordoken. I'm seeing EVE take the same path as UO used to be. Can flagging is one step. The negative aspect about this is the easy of grief. Even though it's pretty fun ^^ It'd be sad if EVE followed the same path as UO even further. "100% battle supression in a safe world" Well... what I wish for is for EVE to stay as a "free" world in which you can play as you like.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.18 14:35:00 - [140] Edited by: Jennai on 18/12/2005 14:39:10 everyone whines about this and that but CCP seems to ignore it unless they can implement it in a way that benefits both carebears and pirates. last patch had a large increase in travel time with the highway removal and everyone whined about that, but playerbase has grown by like 30% since then. all the other MMOs cater to carebears with their safe zones and weak death penalty and teleports; CCP recognizes the role of pvp, pirates, and long travel times in creating a large, immersive game universe.
Tilde Ampersand	Posted - 2005.12.18 14:38:00 - [141] Originally by: Niki Silver Like all of the above posters have already stated - There is an obvious warning requiring player acknowledgment before they become flagged. If someone is that stupid, they deserve to be killed. I think it is hillarious that people are actually that stupid, and I fully support those who are punishing them for it. Scene: Joe, a stupid griefer type that loves nothing better than to cause everyone around him as much grief as possible. He doesn't have the gonads to go out in the real world and PvP against REAL players, so he sits in 1.0 and, pre-RMR, steals their ore, loot and whatever. Now, with the new can**ging, he doesnt need anything but a well equipped Kestral and a tier 2 skillbook to grief anybody. Joe > Here, take it, i have 3 N00b > I dunno, man, I don't wanna be a thief Joe > It's alright, I'm not gonna pod you, I'm just being nice convo goes on for a couple minutes and Joe convinces the n00b he's a carebear... The n00b takes the bait and Joe pods em, possibly even blows the pod. THAT it an exploit of a game feature and really does need to be addressed. Anyone against a means to flag a can as truely FREE has got to be a 'Joe'. Jetting a can in space for a fast, free trade is ALWAYS faster and easier than 'Docking request accepted. Approaching starbase' in a n00b ship... ~& Tilde Ampersand &~**
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.18 14:47:00 - [142] Edited by: Jennai on 18/12/2005 14:48:10 then newb complains in local and someone tells them to never, ever loot someone else's cans unless they're in your gang, no matter what they tell you. also the can flag only lets you kill ships, not pods. you can kill their ship again if they come back within 15 minutes, but you can never get the pod.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.18 15:56:00 - [143] Originally by: Tilde Ampersand THAT it an exploit of a game feature and really does need to be addressed. No, that is an exploit of someones trust, just like scamming and corp theft. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.18 20:54:00 - [144] Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu Originally by: Niki Silver Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu Maybe devs should make a news item warning everyone...? Lots of people are falling for it. Maybe even work this into the tutorial at some point? Are you the guy that lobbied for the law requiring that big huge tag on hair dryer cords that says warning: do not use while in the bath tub? Stupid people deserve to suffer the consequences of thier own stupidity. I have no issues when a week old character fails the reading comprehension and gets blown up. But when 30min old char gets ganked because he peeked into a can and didn't know how game mechanics worked - that's when I get ****ed, at the ganker. Heck, if the ganker is sitting at 100km with BS, the noob might just look around and ignore the message just because he doesn't understand the mechanics. So, explaining this to noobs in the tutorial = good idea IMHO. Now if they still get killed after they have been told in gory detail how the mechanics with cans work, THEN its their own fault. Good point - I agree
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.18 21:03:00 - [145] Edited by: Niki Silver on 18/12/2005 21:03:29 Originally by: Tilde Ampersand Originally by: Niki Silver Like all of the above posters have already stated - There is an obvious warning requiring player acknowledgment before they become flagged. If someone is that stupid, they deserve to be killed. I think it is hillarious that people are actually that stupid, and I fully support those who are punishing them for it. Scene: Joe, a stupid griefer type that loves nothing better than to cause everyone around him as much grief as possible. He doesn't have the gonads to go out in the real world and PvP against REAL players, so he sits in 1.0 and, pre-RMR, steals their ore, loot and whatever. Now, with the new can****ging, he doesnt need anything but a well equipped Kestral and a tier 2 skillbook to grief anybody. Joe > Here, take it, i have 3 N00b > I dunno, man, I don't wanna be a thief Joe > It's alright, I'm not gonna pod you, I'm just being nice convo goes on for a couple minutes and Joe convinces the n00b he's a carebear... The n00b takes the bait and Joe pods em, possibly even blows the pod. THAT it an exploit of a game feature and really does need to be addressed. Anyone against a means to flag a can as truely FREE has got to be a 'Joe'. Jetting a can in space for a fast, free trade is ALWAYS faster and easier than 'Docking request accepted. Approaching starbase' in a n00b ship... Tilde- I understand what you are saying and it does make sense. Trust me, I hate griefers as much as anyone. But I hate dumb people even more. It is much better for a new player to learn to not trust everyone early on, instead of weeks / months later when they are actually going to lose something of value. Eve is full of villains. The villains baiting noobs into taking from cans are creating more alert and aware players out of those noobs, and they will be that much harder for Joe Griefer to kill down the road.
Plekto	Posted - 2005.12.18 21:14:00 - [146] Edited by: Plekto on 18/12/2005 21:18:59 The simple solution is to make there be a timer. If the jetcan is left alone for more than 15 minutes or so, it's considered junk/abandoned. If they want more time, get a real can and anchor it properly. Much easier solution, because sometimes people do leave drones and junk(to them) behind from time to time. Yes, this is a repeat of someone else's idea - people aren't listening! Since the can explodes after an hour anyways, there should be a simmilar time limit where it becomes abandoned. For people worried about peolpe stealing loot in complexes and missions, 5 minutes would be easily enough, so 15 is more than fair. Plus, if you can't get your hauler back to the belt in 15 mins - you deserve to loose it.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2005.12.18 21:34:00 - [147] Originally by: Vixa Ambrodel Usually I just click Do Not Show again whenever there's a pop-up and I know what I'm doing... This is the ONLY one I will NEVER EVER do that with! It can lead to a lot of bad situations if I just pop a can without noticing the corp ticker on it and it saved my ship not only once but TWICE last night. So this warning SHOULD be sufficient to anyone, even new players. If they ignore it, it's their own stupidity and not an exploit... Yes, but unfortunately those idiotic pop-ups sieze your UI so you can't do crap until you close them. Warnings should pop up and stop whatever action that they're warning against, but should not otherwise hamper your UI. That's why people select 'don't show this bullhockey again' because of the loss of control whenever it appears. Have a new option on warnings: Display Minimized - the warning text flashes up along the top of your UI with 'ok, cancel action' or 'ignore and confirm action' buttons nearby. If you decide to take another action and ignore the warning (like warp away or some other activity such as deactivating the weapon about to shoot a non-war target) then you should be able to do that and the UI takes that as a 'ok' and deactivates the warning.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.18 21:44:00 - [148] Originally by: Tilde Ampersand convo goes on for a couple minutes and Joe convinces the n00b he's a carebear... The n00b takes the bait and Joe pods em, possibly even blows the pod. THAT it an exploit of a game feature and really does need to be addressed. Anyone against a means to flag a can as truely FREE has got to be a 'Joe'. Jetting a can in space for a fast, free trade is ALWAYS faster and easier than 'Docking request accepted. Approaching starbase' in a n00b ship... It only goes for the ship and not the pod. Anyway, its like real life. The guy in the park wanting to give you sweeties may be nice or he might have plans with his trouser snake. Rather let people learn that bad things can happen in a game huh?
Kartock Maar	Posted - 2005.12.18 22:21:00 - [149] CCP should give you an option to turn off can flagging ...there is a lot of stuff I leave out for who ever wants it. That would save alot of time. If it does not warn you it is free game ...if it warns you ...it is your arse!
Amasera	Posted - 2005.12.18 22:45:00 - [150] a new player convo'd me and asked if he could take the containers marked with my corps tag, i was mining, it was all rat loot, and i don't have time to get it in the time between 2 cycles(i'm mining with a cruiser, don't have the barge skills yet, so i'm doing 60 sec cycles). so i let the poor guy have it. i didn't have any weapons except my donres (which were killing the rats) but i called them back cause i wasn't sure if they would attack or not.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.18 23:37:00 - [151] there's no automatic offensive action when someone is flagged, you'll still have to manually target them and send your drones when you notice they've started flashing red.
Deka Ekato	Posted - 2005.12.19 11:55:00 - [152] Oh, boy. I never knew I had touched upon a delicate subject. If I have offended any one, "I appologise". All I can say now is that it will be harder for all to trust others. Looks like the ante went up with RMR. PS. Please belive me when I say that I too do not want a totally easy, (carebear) sort of game. I just thought I should speak up about this sort of baiting.
Avon	Posted - 2005.12.19 11:57:00 - [153] Originally by: Deka Ekato I just thought I should speak up about this sort of baiting. Some people have put a lot of effort in to turning this in to almost an art form. I like to think of them as the "Master Baiters" of Eve. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Deka Ekato	Posted - 2005.12.19 12:03:00 - [154] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Deka Ekato I just thought I should speak up about this sort of baiting. Some people have put a lot of effort in to turning this in to almost an art form. I like to think of them as the "Master Baiters" of Eve. ROTFLMAO !!!!
Wild Ice	Posted - 2005.12.19 12:07:00 - [155] Originally by: Amasera a new player convo'd me and asked if he could take the containers marked with my corps tag, i was mining, it was all rat loot, and i don't have time to get it in the time between 2 cycles(i'm mining with a cruiser, don't have the barge skills yet, so i'm doing 60 sec cycles). so i let the poor guy have it. i didn't have any weapons except my donres (which were killing the rats) but i called them back cause i wasn't sure if they would attack or not. I still warn people who want to collect loot i left, that if they come across a corp mate, he may shoot first ask questions later
Macro Slasher	Posted - 2005.12.19 12:09:00 - [156] It's all good tactics. Pvp game and all. No one FORCES you to act retarded and fall into traps. And you ARE able to counter-trap as well. Boy I've had fun in the last couple days
Chauncer	Posted - 2005.12.19 13:38:00 - [157] There's another element here. Ice mining in a .9 system when an indy comes in accompanied by a battlecruiser, both in the same corp. Indy steals the ice causing the flag for both pilots and the BC wastes both barges. That is an exploit IMHO. The only person intended to be flagged is the thief, not an escort armed to the teeth. It changes the whole mining experience. You're gonna need an armed escort to mine in safe space? That's just BS. Flame me if you want but not everyone plays for the PvP experience.
Binary Mind	Posted - 2005.12.19 13:59:00 - [158] I don't really see the exploit.. I was taking someone else can yesterday and a giant popup message appeared warning me what could happen if someone (noob or vet) pushes on every stupid butto without reading the message they actually deserve to die. especially noobs, as they are still in the learning process they should read everything very carefully.
Prothos	Posted - 2005.12.19 14:59:00 - [159] only change i can see the needs to be done is put a timer on the can. After say 30mins the can come public proberty. this will make it a pain for the gankers and give the low scum of the earth ore thiefs a possible chance to still ore. This change will also allow players who so choose the option to clean up cans left a roid belts by someone not interested in looting.
Kahn Moquil	Posted - 2005.12.19 15:32:00 - [160] To all the people who think it's so uber lame to bait people with cans, have you ever considered that you can bait the baiters? Have your corpmates sit on the other side of the gate, grab a ship that the omgwtfebil pirates think they can take out, loot the can, have your corpmates jump in and kill them? You've always had to the tools to prevent ore theft, but you wanted them 'improved'. Now you have the tools to prevent baiters. I suggest you use those tools in stead of asking for an 'improvement' again, you knever know what you're going to get.
Kan3r Blaze	Posted - 2005.12.19 17:12:00 - [161] Originally by: Chauncer There's another element here. Ice mining in a .9 system when an indy comes in accompanied by a battlecruiser, both in the same corp. Indy steals the ice causing the flag for both pilots and the BC wastes both barges. That is an exploit IMHO. The only person intended to be flagged is the thief, not an escort armed to the teeth. It changes the whole mining experience. You're gonna need an armed escort to mine in safe space? That's just BS. Flame me if you want but not everyone plays for the PvP experience. You should be ok actually. When someone takes stuff from your can and gets flagged, their gang or corp mates cannot attack. The only ones who can attack are gang or corp mates of the person who owns the can. You would till have to watch out for people thieving in Battleship's though....but at least you'd only have to be worrying about fighting one hostile, and you could potentially have your whole corp on your side.
Summersnow	Posted - 2005.12.19 17:40:00 - [162] Originally by: Kahn Moquil To all the people who think it's so uber lame to bait people with cans, have you ever considered that you can bait the baiters? Have you ever considered that the baiters already thought of this and only dump there bait in newbi areas where the people do not have the resources to handle a full tanked t2 equipped battleship before his full rack of warpstabs gets him out of danger? The core complaint isn't about the flagging, its about the innapropriate behavior of a few people who are exploiting this game mechanic to grief new players. They want to try this out in 0.5, 0.6 space cool ebans. Right outside the 1.0 newbi spawn point? not cool.
Kahn Moquil	Posted - 2005.12.19 18:23:00 - [163] Originally by: Summersnow Originally by: Kahn Moquil To all the people who think it's so uber lame to bait people with cans, have you ever considered that you can bait the baiters? Have you ever considered that the baiters already thought of this and only dump there bait in newbi areas where the people do not have the resources to handle a full tanked t2 equipped battleship before his full rack of warpstabs gets him out of danger? The core complaint isn't about the flagging, its about the innapropriate behavior of a few people who are exploiting this game mechanic to grief new players. They want to try this out in 0.5, 0.6 space cool ebans. Right outside the 1.0 newbi spawn point? not cool. So a newbie loses a couple of 100k worth of mods, if even that much. Takes a day to get back, even in an ibis. They should count their blessings and be happy that they learned a valuable lesson at low cost. Plus, I doubt this game has so many griefers that we'll see anyone gank newbies in starter systems a week from now. There's no profit in it, hardly any fun after the novelty wears off, and I can already imagine the noobcorp chats having this issue brought up about once every 10 minutes. And nothing's stopping you from going into starter systems and bait the baiters yourself, and drive them out. I mean, you do think they're bad for the game right? Try doing something about it in stead of being all brave on the forums.
Haeloic	Posted - 2005.12.19 20:09:00 - [164] Can flagging doesn't need to be further changed. Everyone who has a problem with it will get used to it. For those trying to bait people into taking stuff...they'll get bored as less people fall for the trick and maybe head to low sec to die. The only annoying part is all the cans everywhere...but that too will fade to a degree. What won't fade is the lag tens of thousands of cans create when dropped en masse around a gate.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.19 20:29:00 - [165] Originally by: Kahn Moquil Plus, I doubt this game has so many griefers that we'll see anyone gank newbies in starter systems a week from now. There's no profit in it, hardly any fun after the novelty wears off, and I can already imagine the noobcorp chats having this issue brought up about once every 10 minutes. there's no profit in macro hunting either, but I think people are going to keep doing that. with the new industry/science skills, you can play station manager while sitting in the belt watching macro miners. it's a lot like fishing - pretty boring on its own, but kinda fun if you can do something else at the same time to fill the dead time.
Kahn Moquil	Posted - 2005.12.19 21:11:00 - [166] macro miners drop loot, ibises usually don't
Rooman Black	Posted - 2005.12.19 21:31:00 - [167] Edited by: Rooman Black on 19/12/2005 21:36:13 Originally by: Chauncer There's another element here. Ice mining in a .9 system when an indy comes in accompanied by a battlecruiser, both in the same corp. Indy steals the ice causing the flag for both pilots and the BC wastes both barges. That is an exploit IMHO. The only person intended to be flagged is the thief, not an escort armed to the teeth. It changes the whole mining experience. You're gonna need an armed escort to mine in safe space? That's just BS. Flame me if you want but not everyone plays for the PvP experience. But before they could just wander up and steal your stuff and you could do nothing. They can only fire on you if you fire on them first. So the ultimate choice is yours, for you if you don't fight back nothing has changed other than you have a new option open to you. In fact when you think about it before they didn't need the escourt, now they do so stealing is not as easy to engage in in the first place.

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