TBH it should be rock, paper, scissor balancing. Even if you base that on popularity.

Every system should have an ideal counter to that system and people should realise that.

Say you're roaming around in an armor brawler gang and you run into a shield sniping gang.
If they have some long points in the shield gang and the armor gang tries to fight, they're going to lose.
This doesn't make the shield gang overpowered. It makes it a fight that the armor gang should withdraw from.

We overused rifters. Sorry about that.

Because what Eve needs is less dynamic PVP?

Funny you mentioned Drake because it was nerfed purely on the popularity it had as the go to fleet Ops sub cap. Much like all Nerfs, they failed to control blobbing because the problem is and always has been the primary alpha system in EVE.

The reason nerfing popularity isn't working, the reason it never will. No ship in this game, none, was designed to have 200 people locking it.

I agree with this. Stop homogenizing EvE!

It doesn't make PvP less dynamic, it's not like every ship should only have one ship to be strong against, one ship to be weak against and one ship to be equal against (or switch the word ship for tactic if you would). It means that every ship should have about the equal amount of ships it's strong against, weak against and equal against. This also doesn't mean that each ship can only be used for one tactic, it can be used for multiple tactics but as long as the chosen tactic is one of the tactics the ship is designed for, then the amount stated above should be more or less the same

Homogenizing is what killed WoW. One thing I always liked about EVE was that the ships were never totally in balance with each other, by design, and that was just How It Is.

Anyone complaining about homogenization has obviously never experienced the "FC, can I bring my Drake" era.

Exactly, there all the same, unless you count the parts that are different, which apparently some of us don't. What was the great difference that people are referring to being lost that isn't there now?

TBH it should be rock, paper, scissor balancing. Even if you base that on popularity.

Every system should have an ideal counter to that system and people should realise that.

Say you're roaming around in an armor brawler gang and you run into a shield sniping gang.
If they have some long points in the shield gang and the armor gang tries to fight, they're going to lose.
This doesn't make the shield gang overpowered. It makes it a fight that the armor gang should withdraw from.

The rock, paper, scissors model is a horrible combat model. Played wow for 8 years and the more wow moved away from their initial RPS model of combat the better the pvp became.

It made an easy goto as far as cost, training ease and effect. Apparently offering too much in CCP's opinion. What I don't understand is the reasoning that a nerf to the drake was ever intended to break up the blob. No stat change on a ship can ever counter the fact that n+1 > n all other things being equal.

Killing by popularity is by definition killing the blob. Blobs burn through more ships that other combat styles.

If I see a situation I know I can't win, I dock up and log out. 10 guys can dock up and play station games. 800 guys won't do that. They will just burn their fleet. Considering the only way CCP can track popular ships is through kill mails, most popular is Blob.

Frankly I think they are wagging the dog. Most of EVE was always inert. Small details being nullified by blap power. It just takes some longer to see it than others and either bow down to the blob or just stop playing.

The point was that pre-determined outcomes make for less frequent and boring PVP. I mean, your example had the first fleet warping off because there was nothing they could do.

the hell is this ****? quality and intelligence on these threads is quite lo- owait, General Discussion.

carry on, and do keep with the whaawhaawhaa.

Congratulation, your the first one who troll this Thread by arguing its a classic General Discussion Troll Thread.

Trollception.

So we need specific pvp ships that will wtfpwn the specific pve ships?

Sounds good.

Performance is in no way equal to popularity. Those are quite different.

Also my opinion is far from uneducated, at least in matters of subcapital performance not that that has anything to do with my opening post.



Please dont turn this into another ahac thread. This is about ccp using popularity as a important figure in balancing (or it coming across as such) while its really not.

Thats why the Dominix Is OP and sales are way up.

Thats why the Machariel got nerfed and sales are way down.

Thats why nanoships were super popular before the nano nerf.

What you are trying to say, but unable to articulate, is that every balance change should not be based solely on the number of people using the ship.

CCP does not do this, has never done this, and likely won't ever do this.

So your entire thread based on one statement is highly irrelevant.

3/10 because you don't even know you're trolling.

Lets look at the Domi and the Armageddon.

Both are drone boats. The Domi gets a 10% falloff and tracking bonus to drones and the Armageddon gets a neut distance bonus. They get the same drone dps bonus. But, due to the Domi being "over powered" is going to lose its 10% falloff and tracking drone bonus. So, the "drone" race won't be able to field even an equivalent boat. They'll have the same drone stats but the Armageddon can fit more neuts and for greater range. One on one, which BS is going to win....the Armageddon because all else being more or less equal, it'll out neut a Domi while applying the same amount of drone DPS. The Domi won't even be able to out dps's the Armageddon because, blasters require cap, and I don't care how many cap boosters you have, against 5 or 6 neuts outside of blaster range means no dps.

And to top it off, vamps are getting a buff......seeing how rebalancing is in full swing, as far as I'm concerned and being a Domi pilot, the Armageddon is going to be over powered as of Odyssey 1.1. So, it's not like CCP is actually doing anything to balance the game. In fact, they're creating other imbalances.

I have no problem with the Geddon neuting better than a Domi.....but what is the Domi going to better? Die, is about it.

Lets look at the Domi and the Armageddon.

Both are drone boats. The Domi gets a 10% falloff and tracking bonus to drones and the Armageddon gets a neut distance bonus. They get the same drone dps bonus. But, due to the Domi being "over powered" is going to lose its 10% falloff and tracking drone bonus. So, the "drone" race won't be able to field even an equivalent boat. They'll have the same drone stats but the Armageddon can fit more neuts and for greater range. One on one, which BS is going to win....the Armageddon because all else being more or less equal, it'll out neut a Domi while applying the same amount of drone DPS. The Domi won't even be able to out dps's the Armageddon because, blasters require cap, and I don't care how many cap boosters you have, against 5 or 6 neuts outside of blaster range means no dps.

And to top it off, vamps are getting a buff......seeing how rebalancing is in full swing, as far as I'm concerned and being a Domi pilot, the Armageddon is going to be over powered as of Odyssey 1.1. So, it's not like CCP is actually doing anything to balance the game. In fact, they're creating other imbalances.

I have no problem with the Geddon neuting better than a Domi.....but what is the Domi going to better? Die, is about it.

Lets look at the Domi and the Armageddon.

Both are drone boats. The Domi gets a 10% falloff and tracking bonus to drones and the Armageddon gets a neut distance bonus. They get the same drone dps bonus. But, due to the Domi being "over powered" is going to lose its 10% falloff and tracking drone bonus. So, the "drone" race won't be able to field even an equivalent boat. They'll have the same drone stats but the Armageddon can fit more neuts and for greater range. One on one, which BS is going to win....the Armageddon because all else being more or less equal, it'll out neut a Domi while applying the same amount of drone DPS. The Domi won't even be able to out dps's the Armageddon because, blasters require cap, and I don't care how many cap boosters you have, against 5 or 6 neuts outside of blaster range means no dps.

And to top it off, vamps are getting a buff......seeing how rebalancing is in full swing, as far as I'm concerned and being a Domi pilot, the Armageddon is going to be over powered as of Odyssey 1.1. So, it's not like CCP is actually doing anything to balance the game. In fact, they're creating other imbalances.

I have no problem with the Geddon neuting better than a Domi.....but what is the Domi going to better? Die, is about it.