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Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1543
   |
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am genuinely scared about what my government is proposing.
The most frightening thing is that I know that NOTHING I do will change it.
I thought governments were meant to represent the people? Not force them down a route of death and retaliation.
I am ashamed to be English right now.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
40457
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm more terrified about what Assad has already done. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33272
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm more worried about not knowing which side used the damn Chemical weapons and the stakes ME oil pipeline investors and Russia have conflicting interests in whats possibly the opening stages of a Sharia/Sunni ethnic war.
We are probably going to war, and I can't think of a favourable outcome that doesn't involve boots on the ground given the guys fighting are rebels and Al-Quaida versus Assad. This is a Stalin vs ****** war where the West wants to pick "the opposition" where the opposition are not a united front, beneficial to our interests or Humanity or Syria in general.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
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Unban Saede! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
40457
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Posted - 2013.08.26 20:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Don't wanna link as per EULA, but US Media now flooding with Kerry's announcement that we have evidence of Assad hiding evidence of use and to be announced in a few days.
edit: dang, that's one staggering drunk of a sentence. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33276
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
My money is still on Thursday evening, and that this will be more Iraq part 3 with actual chemical weapons being used instead of strongly suspected.
All eyes on Israel, Lebanon and Turkey to see the next moves, as British assets are being moved forwards towards Cyprus.
Ladies and Gentlemen Britain is gearing up for war.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
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Unban Saede! |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1543
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am less concerned by the evidence. It is fantastic media to say that someone has used chemical weapons.
Thousands of people have died, chemical or ballistic.
Is there a difference?
Open your head to the fact that this is openly bullshit.
Am more concerned that we open up a more massive hurt between Muslim and West,
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1543
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:My money is still on Thursday evening, and that this will be more Iraq part 3 with actual chemical weapons being used instead of strongly suspected. All eyes on Israel, Lebanon and Turkey to see the next moves, as British assets are being moved forwards towards Cyprus. Ladies and Gentlemen Britain is gearing up for war.
I wish this wasn't so
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1543
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
It comes back to my original point.
Cameron decides we should go to war - if you asked the public you would get a very different answer.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1543
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:It comes back to my original point.
Cameron decides we should go to war - if you asked the public you would get a very different answer.
So how is the English government representing it's people.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33278
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Chemical weapons are classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction, or the poor mans Nuke because it kills indiscriminately. It is not targeted at military assets or troops, it does not enable the capacity to select individual targets. The majority of deaths as I understand it are not from direct combat but from infrastructure and societal collapse, disease ect.
These weapons kill, but they are being shot in an urban environment, implying reckless risk to civilians or a simple disregard or even it being the intend to target civilians.
If Assad is desperate enough to use them, this could work as these weapons are a step above rockets and bombs, if as Russia and Assad claim that these are stolen weapons form Syrian stockpiles (plausible given the military defections and general anarchy) then this is an attempt like 9/11 to draw outside forces in to do what they cannot achieve : defeat Assad.
Noone on the ground in Syria is clean and smells like roses, and the Rebels have people like this as leaders, and do not remove or discipline them then what does that say about them?
There is more to interer Muslim relations at play here than I think you realise.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
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Unban Saede! |
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Jade III
Wolf Star Enterprises
54
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Posted - 2013.08.26 20:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm just glad I have my Internet Spaceships, not worry about this sort of stuff. So I'll go on with my life 
Recruiting! WOSET Recruitment
My adventure blog: Lone Wolf Adventures
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Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1547
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jade III wrote:I'm just glad I have my Internet Spaceships, not worry about this sort of stuff. So I'll go on with my life
Good. That's a nicely westernised approach to life. Carry on. Some of us will question the bullshit that we are fed on a daily basis.
I am entirely cynical about the evidence provided by my government and that of the Syrians. If it had be opened up earlier then we might have got some answers.
As it is I just want to leave this alone. It is nothing to do with us. Nobody gave us a moral right.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33280
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
We gave us a moral right and obligation, under the charter of the United Nations of which Britain underwrites by trade, diplomacy and when necessary force of arms.
Whether you agree with it or not, its there on the books as one of the 5 permanent members of the UN Security council, and we have a duty to consider the possibilities to restore law and order should it be necessary. Pretty certain we tried other ways of resolving it over the last 2 years of Civil war before WMD's started turning up being used in the urban centres.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
/S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\
Unban Saede! |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1547
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:We gave us a moral right and obligation, under the charter of the United Nations of which Britain underwrites by trade, diplomacy and when necessary force of arms.
Whether you agree with it or not, its there on the books as one of the 5 permanent members of the UN Security council, and we have a duty to consider the possibilities to restore law and order should it be necessary. Pretty certain we tried other ways of resolving it over the last 2 years of Civil war before WMD's started turning up being used in the urban centres.
Interesting point considering both the US and the UK are trying to avoid using UN law.
Let us use "International" law instead.
Either way - and I make no apology for this - I don't want my country to make this decision on my behalf. This is nothing to do with us. We should stay out of it.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33281
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Keep in mind the Anglo perspective on the law, that it is the guide to determine legality through the courts after they are accused of being broken. We see the obligation to uphold, and damn the consequences to defend ourselves in the aftermath.
We are breaking the law if we do act, and if we do not act simultaneously. The reason it is illegal is because China and Russia do not agree to it, but a majority of 3 to 5 agree it is necessary.
Additionally, to reduce it to economics is is to Russias benefit for Syria to be a warzone in the center of the ME as it increases the cost of Hydrocarbons in Europe, expensive through Suez leads to price gouging to keep Gazprom profitably propping up the Rubel and Russian economies.
I do however see the merit to leaving them alone to kill each other off as its none of our direct concern, after all what's a few hundred thousand lives to the moral superiority of the West....
We aren't at war yet, and war is an extension of diplomacy at the end of the day. We prove we are commited to ending this and have the firepower and fortitude to carry it out and more than a few heads will turn inside Syria. This may end up being Cyprus being an unsinkable Battleship sitting off of Syria to open negotiations, a small hope but a good one none theless.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
/S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\
Unban Saede! |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1553
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ouch - I do hear what you are saying. I just happen to believe that we have spent our goodwill.
How long do we have to fail at intervening before we should just back off. Every single time we get involved it hurts us - and more importantly the people we are trying to help.
Allow ourselves to be there if someone wants us but back the **** off..
If we start developing stuff that removes the oil dependency then we could have an interesting talk.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
323
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
I am genuinely afraid that the US Simpleton in Chief opens his pie hole and get us involved in Syria. The effing simpleton just can not stay away from **** that is not our business.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first! |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1555
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:I am genuinely afraid that the US Simpleton in Chief opens his pie hole and get us involved in Syria. The effing simpleton just can not stay away from **** that is not our business.
I am afraid in our desire to keep your government happy that we could be led down the wrong path.
As I stated before, I am scared of what our government is getting us into.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33282
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
A very interesting talk it will be, but tomorrow the powerplants will burn coal and gas, the cars, ambulances and the military will use Petrol.
So far we've backed off, and I'm honestly alright with seeing how this plays out internally, were it not for the issue of it being a breeding ground for radicalisation. We have a pool of battle hardened young men being armed, ideologically charged based on ethnic supremacy, denouncing other sects of Islam as not true Muslims and reducing them to animals for slaughter.
Today they are fighting each other in Syria, yesteryear they were in Afghanistan. Hence the issue thats being planned isn't just Syria, its how to put the various sects of Islam in the ME back into a cold war scenario. ****** kept the peace relative to the Western occupation through fear of the consequences, as did Assad, who is actually the more secular of the factions.
I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
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Unban Saede! |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
323
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:
I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...
Sounds suspiciously like Libya.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first! |
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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33282
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:Kirjava wrote:
I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...
Sounds suspiciously like Libya.
Pretty much.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
/S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\
Unban Saede! |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1555
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:A very interesting talk it will be, but tomorrow the powerplants will burn coal and gas, the cars, ambulances and the military will use Petrol.
So far we've backed off, and I'm honestly alright with seeing how this plays out internally, were it not for the issue of it being a breeding ground for radicalisation. We have a pool of battle hardened young men being armed, ideologically charged based on ethnic supremacy, denouncing other sects of Islam as not true Muslims and reducing them to animals for slaughter.
Today they are fighting each other in Syria, yesteryear they were in Afghanistan. Hence the issue thats being planned isn't just Syria, its how to put the various sects of Islam in the ME back into a cold war scenario. ****** kept the peace relative to the Western occupation through fear of the consequences, as did Assad, who is actually the more secular of the factions.
I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...
A lot of ranting there.
I am deliberately avoiding talking about religion of any kind - it isn't really truly relevant. Anyone with true religion would not council this fight.
I agree that the Afghan/Syria fights are becoming related. It would be my strongest reason for leaving the conflict. - neither side is right. Both sides will have to back down before we can meet in the middle.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
40474
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
I really do not see any other solution.
That entire region has proved over and over and over again they are not willing to sit down and listen to reason.
That's not how they operate. Never have, never will.
This isn't European Slap-Fights which have calmed down after about 900 years.
This has been going on for millenia......................and is accelerating. |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1555
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:I really do not see any other solution.
That entire region has proved over and over and over again they are not willing to sit down and listen to reason.
That's not how they operate. Never have, never will.
This isn't European Slap-Fights which have calmed down after about 900 years.
This has been going on for millenia......................and is accelerating.
That's a bit scary =)
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1555
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Do you not genuinely believe that eventually we can sort it out?
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
40478
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Do you not genuinely believe that eventually we can sort it out?
Nope. I do not.
I'm ordinarily not cynical, but after observing for 48 years........well, lets call it 37 (I was 11 when the deal with Sadat was made), it's honestly just hopeless.
The danger is all this spreading to nearby Pakistan and thus across India.
Than the Chinese move in there and it's all over with at that point. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33285
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:
I am deliberately avoiding talking about religion of any kind - it isn't really truly relevant. Anyone with true religion would not council this fight.
This is religious, any attempt to filter out religion from this will fail. There is a schism in Islam into Sunni and Shiite as the main branches, Sunni being the kind in Saudi, Egypt ect, Shiite being that of Syria and Iran, note Irans involvement based on common religion. Also the Syrians and the Israeli's are largely the same ethnic group, just onje side is Jewish and the other is Shiite Islam.
Jayem See wrote:Do you not genuinely believe that eventually we can sort it out?
With or without embracing policies last seen in the New Imperial Era?
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The danger is all this spreading to nearby Pakistan and thus across India.
Than the Chinese move in there and it's all over with at that point.
I like to believe that these kinds of low lying fruit WW3 opening stage events are already well planned for on all sides to avoid it, it might be naive but Mutually Assured Destruction and whatnot.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
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Unban Saede! |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1562
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
The same old themes, over and over. The bad Western-ish dictator vs. the populist movement. It used to be the populists were mostly Communists, now they tend to be religious fundamentalists. No clear and easy choices about whom to support.
Well, at least it's clear that WMDs really are involved. On the other hand, al Qaeda may be involved as well. Both of those were used by our last U.S. President to justify a war, and both proved to be fake justifications. |
Jayem See
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
1558
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't want this.
I just want to make this really clear.
I am so sick of people declaring war on my behalf.
It's ****** up.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
33285
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Noone wants war, its about the most extreme thing we can do bar firing the Nukes off for a decapitation strike.
It happens when nothing else works, where sides misjudge each others intentions and resilience, and irreconcilable positions clash. In this case, we the West are opposed to civilian massacres by any faction as an intention for political purposes. Assad is either trying to break the back of the opposition through demonstration of what he is prepared to do to underwrite it, or the Opposition are desperate enough to do it themselves to drag in someone who can take him out and leave a shattered nation for them to conquer.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
/S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\
Unban Saede! |
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