My money is still on Thursday evening, and that this will be more Iraq part 3 with actual chemical weapons being used instead of strongly suspected.

All eyes on Israel, Lebanon and Turkey to see the next moves, as British assets are being moved forwards towards Cyprus.

Ladies and Gentlemen Britain is gearing up for war.

It comes back to my original point.

Cameron decides we should go to war - if you asked the public you would get a very different answer.

I'm just glad I have my Internet Spaceships, not worry about this sort of stuff. So I'll go on with my life

We gave us a moral right and obligation, under the charter of the United Nations of which Britain underwrites by trade, diplomacy and when necessary force of arms.

Whether you agree with it or not, its there on the books as one of the 5 permanent members of the UN Security council, and we have a duty to consider the possibilities to restore law and order should it be necessary. Pretty certain we tried other ways of resolving it over the last 2 years of Civil war before WMD's started turning up being used in the urban centres.

I am genuinely afraid that the US Simpleton in Chief opens his pie hole and get us involved in Syria. The effing simpleton just can not stay away from **** that is not our business.

I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...

Sounds suspiciously like Libya.

A very interesting talk it will be, but tomorrow the powerplants will burn coal and gas, the cars, ambulances and the military will use Petrol.

So far we've backed off, and I'm honestly alright with seeing how this plays out internally, were it not for the issue of it being a breeding ground for radicalisation. We have a pool of battle hardened young men being armed, ideologically charged based on ethnic supremacy, denouncing other sects of Islam as not true Muslims and reducing them to animals for slaughter.

Today they are fighting each other in Syria, yesteryear they were in Afghanistan. Hence the issue thats being planned isn't just Syria, its how to put the various sects of Islam in the ME back into a cold war scenario. ****** kept the peace relative to the Western occupation through fear of the consequences, as did Assad, who is actually the more secular of the factions.

I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...

I really do not see any other solution.

That entire region has proved over and over and over again they are not willing to sit down and listen to reason.

That's not how they operate. Never have, never will.

This isn't European Slap-Fights which have calmed down after about 900 years.

This has been going on for millenia......................and is accelerating.

Do you not genuinely believe that eventually we can sort it out?

I am deliberately avoiding talking about religion of any kind - it isn't really truly relevant. Anyone with true religion would not council this fight.

Do you not genuinely believe that eventually we can sort it out?

The danger is all this spreading to nearby Pakistan and thus across India.

Than the Chinese move in there and it's all over with at that point.

What right does the West have to imply the use of MWD. Anyone that develops them has the ultimate FAIL that mutual destruction is assured.

So by all means do it. Nobody is going to win. As if we truly matter.

This beautiful planet will carry on without our stupid ass.

The funny thing is the posturing that makes one race feel better than another.

Pretty much.

not so much Britain and france but more like William bloody hague dragging us into war ...Christ on a fkn bike why cant the bloke just shut his bloody mouth

The funny thing is the posturing that makes one racereligion feel better than another.

He has WMD's, and Israel is sitting right there, if Grimpak you are looking at a spark for this to escalate then that would be what I would be worried about.

The schism between the different factions of Islam seems to be following down the path of the historical schism in the Christian Church during the late Middle Ages (also known as the Dark Ages). Strangely enough during that time Islam was the centre of scientific and academic study, while the Christians were busy burning women at the stake for owning a cat and slaughtering each other for having a slightly different interpretation of the Bible.

The whole Shia and Sunni thing is pretty much mirroring the history of western religion, except these days the belligerents have the means to kill each other in much greater numbers, and with more efficiency. The radicalisation is mainly the fault of fundamentalist Imams putting their own spin on the Koran while ignoring or twisting the bits of it that talk about tolerance for other religious beliefs, ignoring the fact that in the past Islam allowed, and actively encouraged women to get an education and anything else that doesn't match their blinkered ideology.

Even as a dyed in the wool atheist I respect the beliefs of those that are not, as long as their beliefs don't advocate murder, war etc; each to their own.

Civilians lining up for gas masks in Israel now, siege mentality incoming.

oh ****, there goes the safeguard.


surprisingly, it comes from Saudi Arabia tho.

Oh joy, yet another war in the Middle East, yet another excuse for the Oil companies to jack up the price instantly and then take months to drop it back down to market values after it's all over.

Ive been buying up oil futures for months on this reason.

You are aware that you are profiteering from a war?

Basically saying "I am feasting on the cadavers of dead Syrians".

I thought governments were meant to represent the people? Not force them down a route of death and retaliation.

Im wondering how USA/UK/France will react to possible casualties / hostage crises. The syrians have S300 SAMs and while the IAF train for this kind of sortie this quite different than American aerial doctrine.

Could be wrong on that, but when i was in the IDF thats why a lot of yanks came for instruction with the IAF. Im just a tread head

I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...

Do you not genuinely believe that eventually we can sort it out?

For once, JUST ONCE, I'd like to see an all-NATO-sans-US force deal with a crisis. I'd dance a ******* jig.

You are aware that you are profiteering from a war?

I've had Astenion blocked for quite awhile. Highly recommend this defensive action.

Will have to avert my eyes from any quoting or the stupid will infect my mind.

I've had Astenion blocked for quite awhile. Highly recommend this defensive action.

Will have to avert my eyes from any quoting or the stupid will infect my mind.

Seems kind of weak to have anyone blocked. Why do words frighten you?


Edit: Astenion, "unlike" this post this minute. It was a general response and not meant to lend any support to you personally.

The best cadavers are the profitable ones.
but seriously, buying stock isn't war profiteering. Buying up all the grain, then waiting until the government finally pays you 10x it's worth is war profiteering.

Sure. And buying stock, looking to profit, when the Syrian civil has been going for two years and counting, where thousands have lost their lives is just ******* dandy?

Not just thousands, but over 100,000.

Oh, gee. Thanks! That makes me feel so much better about the human lives lost.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, just put things in perspective at how much of an atrocity it is. What's more, thousands more will die if there is a war, only now we know there are chemical weapons in play.

Sure. And buying stock, looking to profit, when the Syrian civil has been going for two years and counting, where thousands have lost their lives is just ******* dandy?

Like i said i served in an armoured brigade so my knowledge of aerial matters is limited. But from my interaction with IAF officers in the mess was that the US tends to go for the multi-pronged approach with various sources of attack and basically overwhelm the enemy. While Israel which lacks the punch of the USAF goes for under the radar surgical strikes which are fast and as quiet as possible. Vis a vis the Syrian nuclear reactor in 2007 (that publicly even shocked washington in public at least) or ****** in the 80s. Or the recent weapons shipments to Syria.

It wasnt a criticism of the American air force, just an observation from what IAF officers have told me and a few of the serving US crews who came over. They tended to be put through their paces well by the IAF teams who did this sort of things for a living and often finish with a hell of a lot of respect for their Israeli counterparts.

Either way, I'd prefer everyone to stay out of this. God knows what Hezbollah and the IRGC will do in Lebanon and the Persian gulf. And as someone who has a lot of family and friends in Northern Israel id rather not find out.

Like i said i served in an armoured brigade so my knowledge of aerial matters is limited. But from my interaction with IAF officers in the mess was that the US tends to go for the multi-pronged approach with various sources of attack and basically overwhelm the enemy. While Israel which lacks the punch of the USAF goes for under the radar surgical strikes which are fast and as quiet as possible. Vis a vis the Syrian nuclear reactor in 2007 (that publicly even shocked washington in public at least) or ****** in the 80s. Or the recent weapons shipments to Syria.

It wasnt a criticism of the American air force, just an observation from what IAF officers have told me and a few of the serving US crews who came over. They tended to be put through their paces well by the IAF teams who did this sort of things for a living and often finish with a hell of a lot of respect for their Israeli counterparts.

Either way, I'd prefer everyone to stay out of this. God knows what Hezbollah and the IRGC will do in Lebanon and the Persian gulf. And as someone who has a lot of family and friends in Northern Israel id rather not find out.

So do all the pension schemes etc and other investment funds which take care of millions of people in the west. They follow the money and buy low sell high just like private individuals. Therefore pension funds could be said to be blood money.

Only way to not make money off anothers suffering if to basically do everything yourself and go on a subsistence living.

Im not trying to justify it, but thats how the world works.

First of all, oil has very little to do with Syria overall. Its based off unknowns regarding Iran for the most part based on how they might react to a US strike and the threat to tankers in the gulf as Iran has threatened to close the straits of Hormuz multiple times should they be drawn into a conflict in the USA.

It all revolves around fear. The peak oil times of 2007/08 had nothing to do with conflict, it was rampant speculation based on fear. The same way everything works.

And buying oil futures is based on my clients needs. You may as well go and rail at all those involved in the financial sectors who play eve. The world isnt a nice place.

Im not profiteering from Syria. I dont like the death and in a civil war both sides lose. But I still feel its not enough reason for western powers to be involved. According to polls in the states theres only a 9-12% backing for an invasion of Syria. Hardly mass support is it? Id imagine Europe feels the same.

The Saudis and Jordanians have lots of pricey toys, they should try using them for once rather than cheering onward christian soldier like they have been since the first gulf war.

Ah, it's clear now. Your original post made it sound like you were armchair general-ing USAF employment doctrine. Hope I wasn't too harsh.

My sincerest apologies, Graygor. Your initial comment about investing in oil stock made it sound like you were looking to make money off the war in Syria and it literally made me see red.

CNN Headline:

'Syria is not easy to swallow'



Yeah. It'd be like a really large, dusty mint or something

I'm more terrified about what Assad has already done.

Right now our armed forces are telling our PM that we do not have the ability to take on assad because his cuts mean we have no carriers, few fighterbombers and the army is critcally undermanned.

Best we can do is to use a trafalga class sub to obliterate a few targets but cause no real damage.

Here be truth and the voice of experience

The opinion from the ME is that Obama and congress have climbed so high into that damned tree that they wont be able to get out.

This could well be a war of "lets have a war as we dont want to lose face."

You know, the Chinese are right. Everything does work in cycles.

Welcome to 1913 everyone.

Maybe they'll realise that gutting the armed forces wasnt the brightest of ideas afterall.

Im hoping parliament votes it down.

I remember the no to war in 2003 before Iraq, surprised it isnt the same with Syria. I saw on the BBC that the mood is crap in the UK.

I would disagree that Syria has nothing to do with fossil fuels, given that it ispart of a proposed route for natural gas from Qatar/SA to Europe. Given that this would lower prices and increase volume in line with the EU intent to diversify awayy from Russian gas I would think this plays a part in Russias position.

I dont think most people want a war but its obvious we feel we need to do something here, and I'm not sure that the WMDs weren't fired for the purpose of dragging outside part ies into the war. Given how Obama said it was the red line, he has to do something or the US is shown as a paper tiger, much how Russia is generally seen but on a larger scale, strongest of the Great Powers as opposed to the Lone Superpower.

If we genuinely want to solve this and start this week, it nessesitates a ground campaign and occupation. Standoff bombardment like in Libya would crush Assasd and strengthen the rebels relatively and I would be disgusted by NATO if thats the plan. Take out the anti air and the known WMD depots, though a smart move would be to keep them kobile at this point. If SA wants Syria fixed beyond that then it would need to commit its own forces. We already know throuh the cable leaks that they lean heavily on the US to strike at Iran, so they are not some innocents pulled into this.

This could in a worst case be the big one that kicks off the Arab/Persian war again like the Iran/Iraq war if this is mismanaged, and something is going on in the background to distort logic to the current conclusions.

I'm sadly resigned to a lot (more) needlessly lost lives whilst various people make hay by wrecking the world.

Unrelated but good to know you're still around Silens, havent seen you on the boards for quite a while.

Heres something hot off the press from Jpost about all this.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Sources-West-tells-opposition-that-Syria-strike-coming-in-days-324411

And the facepalm quote.



Asked by whom? The heart eating jihadis who are slaughering shia, druze, kurd and christian and alawite en masse? Oh and the Sunnis who dont agree with them.

Captain Lawrence Oates may have had it right when he gave up his life for Scott and the others.

To say "im just going outside, i maybe gone sometime" sounds mighty appealing in all this madness.

Aye but we have the bases on Cyprus, well within strike range of the RAF. Hopefully reactivating units wont be so tricky as much of the cuts havent bitten yet and need only scrap them, offer reinstatement and bring assets out of mothballs.

Worst thing is the lack of Harriers, we've been caught with our trousers down, now we pay the price and hopefully rearm, ditching the JSF in favour of Navalised Typhoons or whatever we can operate as a stopgap. We cant rely on Trident as our insurance policy all the time.

The UK military is at rock bottom. Most of the highly experienced squaddies have either left or been sacked. The only airpower our fleet has are sea Lynx, merlins and seakings. We do have the best air defence ships in the world but they cant defend an entire fleet alone. Some of our armoured regiments dont even have any tanks.

We have not been this vulnerable for the last 500 years.

Boots on the ground would result in a 3 way clustershag between NATO forces, Assads armies and those moderate freedom loving rebels who are in no way linked to any terrorist groups, no sir.

Boots on the ground would result in a 3 way clustershag between NATO forces, Assads armies and those moderate freedom loving rebels who are in no way linked to any terrorist groups, no sir.

Last time something like that happened that i can think of is maybe WW1 with Lawrence stirring up the arab tribes that started this whole bloody mess to begin with.

12 years of war will do that to an Army.

Its disgusting that they bailed out the bankers and didnt do f all for the army than a paltry pay raise.

Too much is wasted on "procurement tours" (read massive overfunded bloated defence contracts) by whitehall civvies who are basically on a massive bender.

Absolutely sickening.

I thought governments were meant to represent the people? Not force them down a route of death and retaliation.