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Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
283
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Posted - 2013.09.09 09:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
When you're getting into pirate battleships, I get the sense that the demand is for more efficient killing machines - the Rattlesnake's raw survivability is second to none, but its DPS plateaus quite a bit lower than the Mach, the Nightmare, or the Vindicator. Those ships' hull bonuses are pretty much pure gank, while the Rattlesnake has a resist bonus, a drone bonus that matches only one of the two Dominix drone bonuses, and a missile range bonus that's pretty much useless. It's got its uses - I've seen them used as anchors in incursions - but it's not as reliable a moneymaker as the Mach or the Nightmare, and not nearly as terrifying on the field as a Vindicator or a Bhaalgorn. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
16
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Posted - 2013.09.09 11:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:
Its got the same control range as a dominix. Dominix and rattlesnake will shoot 121km with 2 DLAs and a rig. Rattlesnake gives up 2 utilty highs to do so, the dominix gives up 2 turrets. Also the rattlesnake is a brick, which is a reasonable explanation for its movement speed, and balanced.
If you want a fast battleship, please visit your local angel mission agent and test drive a mach today. Also if you need your rattlesnake 100km away in no more than 12 seconds, there is a module for that.
There is a failure to understand mechanics. The snake does not have the range the dominix has drone-wise. What this means is it does not gain near immunity to E-war and damage like the dominix does due to severely outranging everything far beyond any gunnery boat. This in turn means you will rely on your tank more and deal with the E-war more commonly, it does not have nearly the snipe a dominix does. Do not claim they have the same range since a dominix essentially has close to 2 faction tracking modules as a ship bonus, which in turn can be multiplied by said tracking modules. A rattlesnakes attributes really detract from its package as it isn't merely ship bonus vs ship bonus. The rattle imho is very powerful but has some real issues, MJD dependance being one of the major ones. A MJD in PvE is most commonly a way for low skilled players to circumvent a lack in core/support skills, it slows you down immensely since you have to use 6 minutes for one mission pocket as a missioner and an added 3 minutes after if the pocket too hot to tank upon entry, which coincidently is the most common reason to fit a MJD. As a travel tool a MJD is the worst of all, since it always travels 100KM with a dreadful cooldown. And please don't quote 121km control based off of the fact control range rigs are currently bugged not to be stacking penalized.
But my whole point to begin with was to not compare dominix mach rattle, but since people did compare the rattlesnake in a favorable light to the machariel I had to call bullshit on that.
Since it is mentioned though. Dominix is currently the best PvE sniper platform. The rattlesnake is a strong missionboat, but clunky and much more situational.(I have many adapated fits saved whereas a buddy of mine has a one fit all DPS tanking machariel sporting 1100 mobile dps with all tech2 except for 3 modules ending at about 400mill in fitting cost (the usual republic afterburner, faction shield booster, just to dispel the must officer fit myths although implants are another story). Machariel can handle pretty much anything thrown at it, all ships struggle with large gurrista missions Machs too but still do much better then most. (rattlers do okay vs gurristas if theyre active tanked only, or passive but with severe dps gimping fits). A rattler will severely gimp dps or mobility detracting from its effectiveness outside and inside the hangar (refitting), and to top it off a passive tanked rattler is NOT an active tanked one and no one will swap rigs for it, there is no passive tanked 1100 dps rattlesnake with a 10mill EHP tank. The dominix is an excellent PvE sniper platform and I would comfortably call it the best standard BS for PvE and will outdo a rattlesnake on some missions maybe even a mach I have not tested them on gurristas enough but with the proper tanking skills I could see it do well on gurristas with their 90km engagement range both E-war and missiles. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1417
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 11:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:I just like the way that all the people that have never flown a mach claim that it is OP and not having the slightest clue that it is not just a billion isk Hull, it is a billion isk hull that is often fit with billions of isk in mods.
My Mach is not Overpowered, My Wallet is.
you do realize that there are other 1bil pirate battleships and even among them the mach is king? while its dps and projection are good but not exceptional, its mobility is just over the top and needs to be nerfed by at least 20% or so to get the ship in line.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1417
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 11:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote: As someone else has said dont compare a pirate bs to a t1 bs please. thats like comparing an assault frig to a t1 frig... The mach is an expensive ship not just to buy but to fit as well. It should be worth the isk you pay. If we're to continue comparisons please compare it to the other pirate bs.
well, how about we compare it to the nightmare then? let's see... according to my face, the mach has: - better paper dps - damage type selection - cap independant weapons - bigger drone bay and bandwidth - a LOT more speed - a LOT more agility - smaller signature - higher scan resolution
pretty much the only advantages of the nightmare are cheaper ammo and better damage projection. incidentally, these two factors are important enough to make the nightmare a competitor in lvl4 missions (albeit only in amarr space), but anywhere else the mach just beats it hands down.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire
1186
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Posted - 2013.09.09 12:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:
As someone else has said dont compare a pirate bs to a t1 bs please. thats like comparing an assault frig to a t1 frig... The mach is an expensive ship not just to buy but to fit as well. It should be worth the isk you pay. If we're to continue comparisons please compare it to the other pirate bs.
And how does it get better shielding than a maelstrom? maybe base buffer shielding i dk i cant rememebr the numbers. but the maelstroms shield boost bonus gives it an awesome tank at level 5. Off the top of my head the maelstrom does 1k dps and has 1.2k dps active tank at level 5 skills with a crystal set of implants....
Poppycock.
i compared the Machariel with the Maelstrom because the maelstrom is the most effective Minmatar turret battleship now the Phoon is solely a missile boat now. I was not comparing it with the Vargur, which can (roughly) compete with a machariel in some missions.
True, the Maelstrom gets more active rep. This is fine if you solely look at the ability of a ship to tank mission rooms like a derp, having aggroed too many things. The Machariel, with its lower base sig, greater speed and greater DPS does not need such a strong tank. it sheds damage via movement, DPSs down the enemy BS quicker (negating the need of a permatank) and will be out of range of the room aggro faster.
In PVP, buffer is important to avoid, eg, being alpha'd. With an XLASB your Maelstrom relies on the enemies throwing themselves fruitlessly at it and tanking everything. The Machariel relies on everything chasing it and dying. Like I said before, mobility is king, and I doubt anyone who flies a Machariel really cares it does not have a shield boost bonus. A cheap deadspace rep or an ASB and you get plenty of shield HP while flying around the place at 2km/s, which is faster than a cruiser on MWD. Which is just plain ridiculous.
Also, thanks for quoting Crystals for the Maelstrom's tank. Lets throw Crystals on a Mach, or better yet, slaves and go 2.4km/s and outrun even Vagabonds.
You are on the wrong side of history here; the Macha needs a nerfbat, as does the Cynabal. It will happen, and all your logic and all the king's Men won't matter for diddly squat. YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2013.09.09 12:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote: As someone else has said dont compare a pirate bs to a t1 bs please. thats like comparing an assault frig to a t1 frig... The mach is an expensive ship not just to buy but to fit as well. It should be worth the isk you pay. If we're to continue comparisons please compare it to the other pirate bs.
well, how about we compare it to the nightmare then? let's see... according to my face, the mach has: - better paper dps - damage type selection - cap independant weapons - bigger drone bay and bandwidth - a LOT more speed - a LOT more agility - smaller signature - higher scan resolution pretty much the only advantages of the nightmare are cheaper ammo and better damage projection. incidentally, these two factors are important enough to make the nightmare a competitor in lvl4 missions (albeit only in amarr space), but anywhere else the mach just beats it hands down.
and the nightmare has:
more cpu more cap higher targeting range more sensor strength more shields instantaneous ammo swap/reload
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1418
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 12:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote: and the nightmare has:
more cpu more cap higher targeting range more sensor strength more shields instantaneous ammo swap/reload
really? you're gonna bring this weaksauce? well fine: - more cpu is irrelevant as long as you have enough cpu for a decent fit. otherwise i may as well say "the mach has more powergrid hurrdurr". - the slightly better cap is negated completely by the weapons and the fact that you have to fit an mwd to go faster than 300ish m/s - two more sensor strength. 28 vs 26.if that is not a winning argument i don't know what is. - higher raw shield HP is only relevant in PVP buffer fits. ironically, the nightmare is a terrible pvp ship compared to the mach so in the end it has 0 relevance. - instant ammo swap is an advantage but i would take different damage types over different ranges any day.
bottom line, no matter how much space lawyering you try and do, the fact remains: the mach outdoes its siblings by a significant margin. bringing it in line will be better for the game and any unbiased player will admit it.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
403
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Mathias Orsen wrote:I just like the way that all the people that have never flown a mach claim that it is OP and not having the slightest clue that it is not just a billion isk Hull, it is a billion isk hull that is often fit with billions of isk in mods.
My Mach is not Overpowered, My Wallet is.
you do realize that there are other 1bil pirate battleships and even among them the mach is king? while its dps and projection are good but not exceptional, its mobility is just over the top and needs to be nerfed by at least 20% or so to get the ship in line.
Frankly, I'd go the other way around - leave Mach's mobility unparalleled (it's "the minmatar thing"), but drop its falloff bonus for something else. The result would be a very fast, highly agile and somewhat squishy short range ship, much as they're used by Angels.
Then add the falloff bonus to Fleet Tempest and you have a winner combo :D |
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote: and the nightmare has:
more cpu more cap higher targeting range more sensor strength more shields instantaneous ammo swap/reload
really? you're gonna bring this weaksauce? well fine: - more cpu is irrelevant as long as you have enough cpu for a decent fit. otherwise i may as well say "the mach has more powergrid hurrdurr". - the slightly better cap is negated completely by the weapons and the fact that you have to fit an mwd to go faster than 300ish m/s - two more sensor strength. 28 vs 26.if that is not a winning argument i don't know what is. - higher raw shield HP is only relevant in PVP buffer fits. ironically, the nightmare is a terrible pvp ship compared to the mach so in the end it has 0 relevance. - instant ammo swap is an advantage but i would take different damage types over different ranges any day. bottom line, no matter how much space lawyering you try and do, the fact remains: the mach outdoes its siblings by a significant margin. bringing it in line will be better for the game and any unbiased player will admit it.
Fine you make a good point. but please leave the mach as it is. Maybe its the other pirate bs that need a buff...
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Mathias Orsen wrote:I just like the way that all the people that have never flown a mach claim that it is OP and not having the slightest clue that it is not just a billion isk Hull, it is a billion isk hull that is often fit with billions of isk in mods.
My Mach is not Overpowered, My Wallet is.
you do realize that there are other 1bil pirate battleships and even among them the mach is king? while its dps and projection are good but not exceptional, its mobility is just over the top and needs to be nerfed by at least 20% or so to get the ship in line. Frankly, I'd go the other way around - leave Mach's mobility unparalleled (it's "the minmatar thing"), but drop its falloff bonus for something else. The result would be a very fast, highly agile and somewhat squishy short range ship, much as they're used by Angels. Then add the falloff bonus to Fleet Tempest and you have a winner combo :D
pls god no
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Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
0
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Posted - 2013.09.09 13:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Can we stop pretending that the Machs 1bn price tag is a balancing point, if people can easily field a full fleet of Machs, they are hardly 'rare'. Faction or pirate BS are the new standard where a few years ago it would be T1 BS. MUDflation.
The mach is clearly overpowered, not because it is the best armor PVP BS, but because it is the best PVP AHAC and has been for a long time. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
668
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote: and the nightmare has:
more cpu more cap higher targeting range more sensor strength more shields instantaneous ammo swap/reload
really? you're gonna bring this weaksauce? well fine: - more cpu is irrelevant as long as you have enough cpu for a decent fit. otherwise i may as well say "the mach has more powergrid hurrdurr". - the slightly better cap is negated completely by the weapons and the fact that you have to fit an mwd to go faster than 300ish m/s - two more sensor strength. 28 vs 26.if that is not a winning argument i don't know what is. - higher raw shield HP is only relevant in PVP buffer fits. ironically, the nightmare is a terrible pvp ship compared to the mach so in the end it has 0 relevance. - instant ammo swap is an advantage but i would take different damage types over different ranges any day. bottom line, no matter how much space lawyering you try and do, the fact remains: the mach outdoes its siblings by a significant margin. bringing it in line will be better for the game and any unbiased player will admit it. Fine you make a good point. but please leave the mach as it is. Maybe its the other pirate bs that need a buff...
Don't nerf my PWNMOBILE bro!
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Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
270
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:
Its got the same control range as a dominix. Dominix and rattlesnake will shoot 121km with 2 DLAs and a rig. Rattlesnake gives up 2 utilty highs to do so, the dominix gives up 2 turrets. Also the rattlesnake is a brick, which is a reasonable explanation for its movement speed, and balanced.
LOL no, it doesn't have the same drone control range. Because, you know, the Dominix applies WONDERFUL drone DPS without fitting turrets or missiles, so the highs can be shamelessly full of DLAs for proper sniping, and you still get the advantages of using ALL of the hulls bonuses.
The Rattlesnake, however, relies on its launchers. It needs the launchers or it will sport ANEMIC DPS with MUCH WORSE REAL APPLICATION than the Dominix. So, it's basically restricted to 2 x T2 DLAs.
Even more weird is the fact that a Rattlesnake with T2 Cruises can launch at...200Km, IIRC? It's like allowing a Machariel to attack with its secondary weapon system at 200Km (drones), while forcing it to FOREGO said weapon system if it wanted to shoot at 150Km with Artillery. Absurd, isn't it?
Well, it's what happens to the Rattlesnake: want to reach 150Km with your longest reaching drones? No launchers for you. Less paper DPS and less REAL, APPLIED DPS than the Dominix.
Tauranon wrote:If you want a fast battleship, please visit your local angel mission agent and test drive a mach today. Also if you need your rattlesnake 100km away in no more than 12 seconds, there is a module for that.
Yeah. So the Rattlesnake can't run (no problems with that) like the Mach, can't GTFO like the Mach (who can?), can't get into Incursions like the Mach (well, OK), can't snipe in PvP like the Mach (fine), can't clear missions as fast as the Mach (ummm...yes)...
What can the Rattlesnake do better than the Mach? Stay put and take it IF properly fit for max brick?
Yeah. I can't understand at all why the Rattlesnake costs less than half |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11530
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:As the title says pls dont do this. I've heard rumours that a nerf is on the horizon. Is this true?
I have spent ages training for this ship and it would be a shame for all that training to go to waste....
PLEASE PLEASE dont nerf the mach.
lolnop
1 Kings 12:11
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Well, it's what happens to the Rattlesnake: want to reach 150Km with your longest reaching drones? No launchers for you. Less paper DPS and less REAL, APPLIED DPS than the Dominix.
When you're arguing at such extreme ranges to make a point...the argument is thin.
A properly fitted 'snake will murder a Dominix in damage application at any reasonable range whilst tanking FAR better than said domi could ever dream of.
The rattler costs half as much for two reasons: 1) high skill requirement to make it 'work' and 2) People are obsessed about passive tanking it, it's real potential lies in an active tank and actually playing the ship as opposed to deploying drones and snoozing.
With a couple of 5% implants (cant be bothered reconfiguring, meh) it can spit out 1050-1240 DPS selectable damage out to its lock range whilst sporting a very serious tank indeed.
Yeah, totally sucks |
Bastion Arzi
Dat Tax
29
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 11:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Darius Brinn wrote:Well, it's what happens to the Rattlesnake: want to reach 150Km with your longest reaching drones? No launchers for you. Less paper DPS and less REAL, APPLIED DPS than the Dominix. When you're arguing at such extreme ranges to make a point...the argument is thin. A properly fitted 'snake will murder a Dominix in damage application at any reasonable range whilst tanking FAR better than said domi could ever dream of. The rattler costs half as much for two reasons: 1) high skill requirement to make it 'work' and 2) People are obsessed about passive tanking it, it's real potential lies in an active tank and actually playing the ship as opposed to deploying drones and snoozing. With a couple of 5% implants (cant be bothered reconfiguring, meh) it can spit out 1050-1240 DPS selectable damage out to its lock range whilst sporting a very serious tank indeed. Yeah, totally sucks
Quick nerf it into the ground!!!
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To mare
Advanced Technology
249
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Posted - 2013.09.10 11:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
IF they have to nerf the thing i hope they remove the 7th turret, and leave all the rest (speed agi) the same, i know mission runners wont like this but at least it would keep the ship viable for pvp |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 11:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Well, the Mach is anything up to 10x faster, has equal or higher DPS in a meaningful way and has just about as mean a tank with some pimpage.
That's the thing about the Mach, you're never really in a trade off position with it, it just does it all - and it of the things it does, it's ranging from well above average to king of the hill.
Frankly I just take exception to claims he rattler sucks - but by all means, buff it |
Bastion Arzi
Dat Tax
29
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Posted - 2013.09.10 11:49:00 -
[49] - Quote
the mach doesnt have as good a tank as the rattler are you kidding me? |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 11:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Not a brick rattler no, but an active one, it's rather close. And guess what a brick rattler doesnt have the DPS. Neither breed of rattler has the speed or the sig either. |
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Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
270
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Posted - 2013.09.10 12:20:00 -
[51] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Darius Brinn wrote:Well, it's what happens to the Rattlesnake: want to reach 150Km with your longest reaching drones? No launchers for you. Less paper DPS and less REAL, APPLIED DPS than the Dominix. When you're arguing at such extreme ranges to make a point...the argument is thin. A properly fitted 'snake will murder a Dominix in damage application at any reasonable range whilst tanking FAR better than said domi could ever dream of. The rattler costs half as much for two reasons: 1) high skill requirement to make it 'work' and 2) People are obsessed about passive tanking it, it's real potential lies in an active tank and actually playing the ship as opposed to deploying drones and snoozing. With a couple of 5% implants (cant be bothered reconfiguring, meh) it can spit out 1050-1240 DPS selectable damage out to its lock range whilst sporting a very serious tank indeed. Yeah, totally sucks
I use my Rattlesnake with an ACTIVE tank, thank you very much, and I am very aware of what it can spit out.
The damage is not fully selectable. You can't bring 4 different sets of Sentries at all. Selectable damage for unbonused launchers hardly counts as "selectable damage" like we mean it when we are discussing all things Machariel.
It cannot be configured to snipe effectively, and you are restricted to barely beyond 110Km or your DPS will drop. This is a problem not shared by the Dominix.
I also would love to see what would you call a "reasonable" range. If I use a Rattlesnake in PvE, with a MJD, and I warp 150Kms away from red crosses, I would love not being forced to slowboat (or use double propulsion) 35 or 40Kms until I can shoot.
In the same situation, the Dominix user with his highs full of DLAs and his DPS intact would have been shooting for minutes.
Also, I frankly don't give a damn if they nerf the Machariel or not. Don't get me wrong. I am extremely well trained for both the Rattlesnake and the Machariel (like, everything at V except Cruise/Torpedo/Large arties/Large autocannon specializations...for the moment) and I can put them both to good use in a whim. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
16
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Posted - 2013.09.10 13:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Darius Brinn wrote:Well, it's what happens to the Rattlesnake: want to reach 150Km with your longest reaching drones? No launchers for you. Less paper DPS and less REAL, APPLIED DPS than the Dominix. When you're arguing at such extreme ranges to make a point...the argument is thin. A properly fitted 'snake will murder a Dominix in damage application at any reasonable range whilst tanking FAR better than said domi could ever dream of. The rattler costs half as much for two reasons: 1) high skill requirement to make it 'work' and 2) People are obsessed about passive tanking it, it's real potential lies in an active tank and actually playing the ship as opposed to deploying drones and snoozing. With a couple of 5% implants (cant be bothered reconfiguring, meh) it can spit out 1050-1240 DPS selectable damage out to its lock range whilst sporting a very serious tank indeed. Yeah, totally sucks
I don't like saying the rattler sucks either. But as a sentry platform it is unable to utilize any realistic speed tank, or burn to gates at any reasonable pace. The fact it can get 0 improved damage application through kiting really makes it absurd for it to be in the lowest speed/agility bracket with 4 missile launchers no less. You do neglect to mention that a split in modules for drones and any kind of weapon-system (missiles in this case) are basically still in the era of split weapon systems when it comes to fitting slot consumption. If the rattlesnake were to really be like what its current incarnation is supposed to be it will gain a bonus to missile/drone tracking mechanics and a substantial speed/agility increase just so it can effectively fit an AB without weak sauce dps Not to mention it takes way too much rigging to make 4 launchers a substantial part of dps.
I wish they would just circumvent many of these issues by allowing sentries to be retrieved but not repositioned, or automatically reeled in with a tractor or cable after a certain distance. Sentries being stationary is a fine mechanic but forcing the ship to do the same is imho simply a negative in all regards. Maybe something outrageous like functioning heavy drones would help it come back to its original intention. Until then lets not quote the rattlers very pleasant damage application too much, since all that is wiped away through being the most expensive slug in EvE with near to 0 mobility really destroying your time/isk. This analyses probably wouldn't ring true too hard if it wasn't for everything being buffed like hell in the Rattlers respective category (read, RNI and Dominix, drones&missiles) while the rattler stands still in all regards. In the end your rattler will costs you vastly more SP and micromanagement then it will reward you for, ending up as the next step after maxing your RNI skills with no real incentive to do so except for some hyper-specialized role. The rattlesnake is not well understood unless you fly it, most of the people that comment on it do not fly it as often demonstrated in misinformed posts. Most people hear from others that like flying the rattler and go from there, but most people will like rattlers if they fly them not worship them like Mach pilots. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 13:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
Why...would you not bring the right sentries to the party when it's PvE?
Moreover, why would you MJD....that's a novelty trick if your tank isnt up to it.
Clearly we just do different things. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
16
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Posted - 2013.09.10 13:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Why...would you not bring the right sentries to the party when it's PvE?
Moreover, why would you MJD....that's a novelty trick if your tank isnt up to it.
Clearly we just do different things.
I would love to hear how you deal with a gate 33-50 km out then with a sentry fit. School me please. No sarcasm intended, agreed on MJD except that an active fit makes you need one for larger missions due to being stationary. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
I use a different boat. I'm not married to a single hull. For me the mobility thing isnt a factor because....different hulls.
Usually where there is travel time I'll fire up a CNR, maybe a TFI if its not that far.
Like I said, we just play differently |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
498
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Posted - 2013.09.10 14:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Not a brick rattler no, but an active one, it's rather close. And guess what a brick rattler doesnt have the DPS. Neither breed of rattler has the speed or the sig either.
Close, to a Rattler? What are you smoking, and why aren't you sharing.
Do I need to point out why an 8 midslot battleship has a "slightly" better tank than a 5 mid battleship?
....and don't tell me armor tanks, because when you do that you are giving up insanely fast battleship advantage #1. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
362
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Posted - 2013.09.10 14:45:00 -
[57] - Quote
/sigh
The point of an active rattler is to leverage the launchers. That means rigors, that means painters on top of omnis that also means BCUs. When you add those the slots are far closer. The rattlers resists are offset by the fact the Mach is bombing about like a cruiser whereas the flying brick is lumbering along with a sig akin to that of a carrier....
It's not equal but its close enough for the point I was making which is that the Mach makes no sacrifices for what it can do. This toon picks the boat per mission, my alt has a Mach and doesnt bother because there's just no need. I can outperform the Mach, but only by cherrypicking fits and boats and fitting for absolute optimal for a given rat. Nothing wrong with being able to max out like that, what's dodgy is the Mach is damned close in performance terms and all my alt needs to do reload a different ammo type.
My CNR is close but not quite there. Mind you, it's a navy boat. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
498
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:/sigh
The point of an active rattler is to leverage the launchers. That means rigors, that means painters on top of omnis that also means BCUs. When you add those the slots are far closer. The rattlers resists are offset by the fact the Mach is bombing about like a cruiser whereas the flying brick is lumbering along with a sig akin to that of a carrier....
It's not equal but its close enough for the point I was making which is that the Mach makes no sacrifices for what it can do. This toon picks the boat per mission, my alt has a Mach and doesnt bother because there's just no need. I can outperform the Mach, but only by cherrypicking fits and boats and fitting for absolute optimal for a given rat. Nothing wrong with being able to max out like that, what's dodgy is the Mach is damned close in performance terms and all my alt needs to do reload a different ammo type.
My CNR is close but not quite there. Mind you, it's a navy boat.
If you never flew the gallente or minmatar split bonus hulls you would know to ingore one. You don't bother with using 5 slots to use 4 unbonused lauchers, they are there for flavor, then even all of the drone mods yu could need there is plenty of space in the mids.
When you can carry three sets of heavy/sentries and three sets of lights at once who the hell needs a painter, or rigor/flare/BSC that is just silly. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
That 'flavour' is kicking on for 490 DPS...I'm gonna go ahead and not ignore it |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
498
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 15:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:That 'flavour' is kicking on for 490 DPS...I'm gonna go ahead and not ignore it
Yeah and you are wasting FIVE slots to get another 130DPS. Its a waist, and you are giving up that big advantage of the hull which is its natural god tank. Strikes me as doing it the hard way personally.
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