Well the projectile bonus is irrelevant if you use hybrid too... just use drones that move (heavies etc). If the fit is sentry it impacts the DPS somewhat tho.

Better they nerf that than bring the speed down to 800m/s with mwd.

So the confirmed changes seem a bit drastic. -3 turrets, 65% reduction in overall speed, and change of falloff to drone damage/hitpoints.

How can we stop this??

Eve Uni?

......also since they tend to blob around low sec they are about the perfect target for pirates that DO have access to that sort of asset.

.....not the best litmus.

Eve Uni?

Yes, that bastion of skilled high SP pilots with both the skills and the money run around in billion isk hulls.....

I invite you to use any other killboard to look at the relative number of kills from Machs/Vindis/Bhaals/NMs/Snakes, and prove me wrong.

The mach is vastly preferred over other pirate BS's for PvP.

So the confirmed changes seem a bit drastic. -3 turrets, 65% reduction in overall speed, and change of falloff to drone damage/hitpoints.

How can we stop this??

You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.

You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.

Check the market camper......I mean hub guys......bet you find more vindis there

I checked this thread, found nothing.

Basically, you are not willing to provide any data to counter mine, that the Mach is vastly preferred for PvP relative to any other pirate BS (though the Vindi makes a decent showing).

I checked this thread, found nothing.

Basically, you are not willing to provide any data to counter mine, that the Mach is vastly preferred for PvP relative to any other pirate BS (though the Vindi makes a decent showing).

so becuase its preferred it needs to be nerfed?

People see what they wanna see. Dominix is on WAY more KM's than Mealstrom. Because the Mach is the only decent PvP projectile BS. I don't hear them crying nerf the Domi, although it is way more powerful in its class than the Mach is. Domi has had as many recent buffs as Mach has had nerfs. RS isn't on KM's? Boo friggin hoo, theres other drone boats that put out MORE DPS. Vindi isnt on KM's? Oh wait, theres 4 or 5 blaster boats with as much DPS as the Vindi for 1/5 the price. NM not on KM's? My fraking Armageddon gets as much DPS, although its not a laser boat ,there are comparable laser boats in the damage category with great tank for way less money.

If its SOOO excellent why isnt everyone and their mother sporting a machariel?

It requires a "bit" of isk investment which most null/low pvp fans are averse for a reason, risk involved, however if you lived in null for some time you'd already probably heard about some cloak Mach gang pounding rating carriers/lazy people for weeks in Goon space without getting caught simply because no one could, until some of them made a mistake.

omg is that isk cost being a balancing factor?

and no ive never heard of fleets of uncatchable machs but then ive only played the game for 9 months or so...

so becuase its preferred it needs to be nerfed?

Nightmares find themselves as only incursion boats, where they are taken with a certain amount of disdain due to their slow speed and cap issues (cap chains... ewwww)

And Mega is the hull of choice for cost effective harassing ATM, again, people seeing what they want to see.

Using the logic presented in the above post its time to nerf the Mega, not the Mach.



It had 2 buffs and 1/4 of its 2nd buff taken away.

Machs already been nerfed a lot harder than that.

Losing dps for application is hardly a buff, and what was the other buff? All it's had was it's bonuses changed, then reduced, which adds up to a nerf.

When you get as much of an application buff as the Domi did, it is an overall buff. Also being able to us Garde II's at the range they can now be used at and with the tracking they now have removes the need to step down to a lower DPS sentry drone a lot of the time. So your drones are doing more paper and real DPS than they did before. Removing the gun bonus is a slight nerf but considering the fitting possibilities it is not a huge deal. I could be wrong but I assume the vast majority of PvP Domi pilots consider it a gigantic buff.


As for the thread topic: Incursions are not, or at least shouldn't be the balancing argument for saying the Nightmare is as good as a Mach. In PvP(the traditional balance factor) the Mach is flat out better.

Chaining tach fit NMs are the best sniper boat in PVE bar none. Can apply 900ish DPS to 120km against targets that are actively MWDing while orbiting, which is almost 35% better than any other ship. This is a big freaking deal in HQ communities as we seem to be comming up on a heavy contest season again.

Also, the mach is not particularly over generous, the issue is that the falloff of ACs is roughly 5% too high as a base...

Now imagine if you were training for a supercarrier or titan. The tears when those get nerfed are going to be exquisite.

sounds like Rumor to me.