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TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:42:00 -
[151] - Quote
Gogela wrote: Blockade runners can't be caught in lowsec. 
Check out the Rancer and Negative Ten KB and you will find that BRs are not so "uncatchable".
GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3448
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:59:00 -
[152] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?!
The issue is that a even a sloppy cloaky nullified pilot is impossible to stop. A cov ops pilot stands a chance of being caught even if they are very good. Cloaky Nulli ships are just too effective at avoiding every kind of blocade. Intercepters equally can be in warp before you can move the mouse to the overview to target it. A good cepter pilot can get through most camps as it is, come winter only the very bad will be getting caught. Great for getting into those ratting/mining deadend systems with 30+ bubbles on the gate but equally good for getting cynos in, scouts past fleets and transporting low volume high isk cargo for little risk. This change will most likely cause a good number of balance issues although granted not nearly as many issues as cloaky nullified ships.
I don't know man, I've seen some very sloppy gate camping. Yet they still killed ships because of bubbles. The same argument you are making against a cloaky nullifying ship can be made against even having bubbles in the first place.
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baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:06:00 -
[153] - Quote
Quote:
Yes and that's exactly my point. There are bad pilots and there are good pilots. The bad ones should be your prey, the good ones should have a chance to pass by. if you want to catch them you need more effort, like large fleet of disco BS. But please dont demand to catch every single ship. You can count claky nullified ships in EVE by fingers of one hand, they are not majority ships and also they are lacking in dps and above all they are not invulnerable, they are just hard to catch. Null sec is already empty (besides station and outpost systems) By removing or nerfing nullified ships, you will make it even more emptier.
EDIT: btw you can find t3 pilots (the stupid ones) in npc null more often than in player null. And lowsec is full of naive pilots.
If you look back you will see I also said gate camps shouldn't catch everything that tries to get by. It works both ways.
The number of nullified T3 is huge out there and with good reason as unless you are an idiot you will not get stopped by anything. Giving cepters nulifiers will likely cause as many issues. I would rather see nuli used on ships cruiser sized but with no cov ops cloak. The cepters abilities in tackling would be a better option. |

baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:10:00 -
[154] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?!
The issue is that a even a sloppy cloaky nullified pilot is impossible to stop. A cov ops pilot stands a chance of being caught even if they are very good. Cloaky Nulli ships are just too effective at avoiding every kind of blocade. Intercepters equally can be in warp before you can move the mouse to the overview to target it. A good cepter pilot can get through most camps as it is, come winter only the very bad will be getting caught. Great for getting into those ratting/mining deadend systems with 30+ bubbles on the gate but equally good for getting cynos in, scouts past fleets and transporting low volume high isk cargo for little risk. This change will most likely cause a good number of balance issues although granted not nearly as many issues as cloaky nullified ships. I don't know man, I've seen some very sloppy gate camping. Yet they still killed ships because of bubbles. The same argument you are making against a cloaky nullifying ship can be made against even having bubbles in the first place. If gate camps were as effective as a cloaky nullified T3 then nothing would make it past them. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:21:00 -
[155] - Quote
QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted? |

Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1147
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:26:00 -
[156] - Quote
so they just gave the most frail combat-worthy ship class in the game a means of escaping bubbles. I mean, the only thing that dies more than interceptors in this game is pods, and I'm not even sure about this statement.... [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |

baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:26:00 -
[157] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted?
Those T3 pilots are terrible and dont click on their cloak quickly enough or move too soon and cant activate it. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:27:00 -
[158] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted? Those T3 pilots are terrible and dont click on their cloak quickly enough or move too soon and cant activate it. There are no true Scotsmen.
Edit: In case you don't get it.
Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they weren't good cloaky nullified T3's." |

baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted? Those T3 pilots are terrible and dont click on their cloak quickly enough or move too soon and cant activate it. There are no true Scotsmen.Edit: In case you don't get it. Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp" Person A: "Then they weren's good cloaky nullified T3's."
Like everything there is always one moron who can mess it up. For example the waterproof Iphone update.
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PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:41:00 -
[160] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Like everything there is always one moron who can mess it up. For example the waterproof Iphone update.
Again, you're just repeating the same exact ad hoc fallacy.
Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they were morons." |
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baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:55:00 -
[161] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Like everything there is always one moron who can mess it up. For example the waterproof Iphone update.
Again, you're just repeating the same exact ad hoc fallacy. Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they were morons."
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship. |

Aeana K
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:59:00 -
[162] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
[......] It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer.
True. But nullsec is way too safe for its residens, with all these bubble traps. This change makes null a bit more harder for them.
It is amazing that you do not want to make null easier for non-nulls, but you want it to be still as much easy as possible for you...
Null sec should be the same dangerous for nulls and non-nulls in my opinion. And this change is in that direction. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:01:00 -
[163] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship.
I see no facts presented by you at all, only unsupported generalizations and repeated use of fallacies.
Remote sebo'd ships catch nullified T3's regularly, that is fact not in dispute. |

baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:07:00 -
[164] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship.
I see no facts presented by you at all, only unsupported generalizations and repeated use of fallacies. Remote sebo'd ships catch nullified T3's, that is fact not in dispute.
They only reason sebo ships lock them is because you are preying on highsec bears. They move before the cooldown is finished ontheir cloak or do not hit their cloak quickly enough.
As I said, this game should not be balanced around bad players. If it was then things like boomerang would not have been nerfed. |

baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:10:00 -
[165] - Quote
Aeana K wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
[......] It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer.
True. But nullsec is way too safe for its residens, with all these bubble traps. This change makes null a bit more harder for them. It is amazing that you do not want to make null easier for non-nulls, but you want it to be still as much easy as possible for you... Null sec should be the same dangerous for nulls and non-nulls in my opinion. And this change is in that direction.
We infact think this change is going to make null too safe for some people. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:12:00 -
[166] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship.
I see no facts presented by you at all, only unsupported generalizations and repeated use of fallacies. Remote sebo'd ships catch nullified T3's, that is fact not in dispute. They only reason sebo ships lock them is because you are preying on highsec bears. They move before the cooldown is finished ontheir cloak or do not hit their cloak quickly enough. As I said, this game should not be balanced around bad players. If it was then things like boomerang would not have been nerfed.
Again, with the same exact ad hoc fallacy. Do you really have no better arguments to present? Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they were highsec bears/bad players."
Present facts or quit your moaning. |

TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:15:00 -
[167] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted?
This is an excelent point. Sorry baltec but your statements are just vague. Your "uncatcheable skilled T3s pilots" are catcheable. There are already tools for that. I saw many t3s that have been killed in lowsec gatecamps. They are using trash around the gates (like wrecks, cans, probes or simply orbiting drones) so cloaky ships cannot cloak during align. They are using smartbombs to decloak aligning ship or they are using remote sensor boosted ships so they can lock ships almost instantly. And guess what. They cannot use bubbles. And if you have trouble to catch t3 pilots with excelent flying skills then you just need gatecamp with excelent pilots and gatecamp setup also. Not just sloppy pilots and buble with "Turn ON" button. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |

baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:21:00 -
[168] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship.
I see no facts presented by you at all, only unsupported generalizations and repeated use of fallacies. Remote sebo'd ships catch nullified T3's, that is fact not in dispute. They only reason sebo ships lock them is because you are preying on highsec bears. They move before the cooldown is finished ontheir cloak or do not hit their cloak quickly enough. As I said, this game should not be balanced around bad players. If it was then things like boomerang would not have been nerfed. Again, with the same exact ad hoc fallacy. Do you really have no better arguments to present? Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they were highsec bears/bad players." Present facts or quit your moaning.
I just described how you are catching them.
There is a reason why just about every gatecamp/roam/fleet ignores T3s that land on a gate or jump through. Why do you think big fleets always sent their T3 bonus ships into system first dispite there being muliple full fleets on the gate?
Its because the enemy couldn't stop them. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:27:00 -
[169] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: I just described how you are catching them.
There is a reason why just about every gatecamp/roam/fleet ignores T3s that land on a gate or jump through. Why do you think big fleets always sent their T3 bonus ships into system first dispite there being muliple full fleets on the gate?
Its because the enemy couldn't stop them.
Just because your gatecamps ignore T3's does not mean all gatecamps ignore T3's. That's called a fallacy of composition.
Cloaky nullified T3's get caught by remote sebo'd camps. Fact. Refute it without resorting to logical fallacies, please. |

baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:41:00 -
[170] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote: I just described how you are catching them.
There is a reason why just about every gatecamp/roam/fleet ignores T3s that land on a gate or jump through. Why do you think big fleets always sent their T3 bonus ships into system first dispite there being muliple full fleets on the gate?
Its because the enemy couldn't stop them.
Just because your gatecamps ignore T3's does not mean all gatecamps ignore T3's. That's called a fallacy of composition. Cloaky nullified T3's get caught by remote sebo'd camps. Fact. Refute it without resorting to logical fallacies, please.
And I have told you how those sebo camps are doing it.
Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine. You ignore the fact that these are the only ships that are invincible when flown right and demand I post evidence that is impossible to collect while providing none yourself. This seems to be a new recuring tactic of the bears desperate to keep the game imbalances that benefit them.
In every war we have fought in the last year I cannot recall losing a single T3 booster to a camp. |
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PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:51:00 -
[171] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote: I just described how you are catching them.
There is a reason why just about every gatecamp/roam/fleet ignores T3s that land on a gate or jump through. Why do you think big fleets always sent their T3 bonus ships into system first dispite there being muliple full fleets on the gate?
Its because the enemy couldn't stop them.
Just because your gatecamps ignore T3's does not mean all gatecamps ignore T3's. That's called a fallacy of composition. Cloaky nullified T3's get caught by remote sebo'd camps. Fact. Refute it without resorting to logical fallacies, please. And I have told you how those sebo camps are doing it. Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine. You ignore the fact that these are the only ships that are invincible when flown right and demand I post evidence that is impossible to collect while providing none yourself. This seems to be a new recuring tactic of the bears desperate to keep the game imbalances that benefit them. In every war we have fought in the last year I cannot recall losing a single T3 booster to a camp. No, you have told me that all T3's that get caught are bad, an ad hoc fallacy.
I could just as easily say the pilots you fly with are terrible at gatecamping.
You have provided no facts to support your position whatsoever, only conjecture and opinion. My evidence? All of the t3's that die to remote seboed camps, something that is not in dispute.
All I see in your posts is yet another QQ to get CCP to help you protect your space and your bears. QQ all you want, bubbles alone will not make your systems safe. |

baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:59:00 -
[172] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: All I see in your posts is yet another QQ to get CCP to help you protect your space and your bears. QQ all you want, bubbles alone will not make your systems safe.
Fun fact: We benefit from these uncatchable ships and if they get nerfed it would hurt us.
Unlike you however we will push to get imbalances fixed even if it hurts us for the greater good of the game. |

TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 10:02:00 -
[173] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine.
Did you read my post or are you just ignoring the fact that i already wrote how to catch skilled t3 pilots?
GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 10:06:00 -
[174] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: All I see in your posts is yet another QQ to get CCP to help you protect your space and your bears. QQ all you want, bubbles alone will not make your systems safe.
Fun fact: We benefit from these uncatchable ships and if they get nerfed it would hurt us. Unlike you however we will push to get imbalances fixed even if it hurts us for the greater good of the game. Just like you lot pushed to get bombers nerfed a year or two ago? How'd that work out for ya? 
But I'm sure CCP will see you for the magnanimous pilots you are, and will award you seven guardian-vexors for your service to the public good.
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baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 10:11:00 -
[175] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: All I see in your posts is yet another QQ to get CCP to help you protect your space and your bears. QQ all you want, bubbles alone will not make your systems safe.
Fun fact: We benefit from these uncatchable ships and if they get nerfed it would hurt us. Unlike you however we will push to get imbalances fixed even if it hurts us for the greater good of the game. Just like you lot pushed to get bombers nerfed a year or two ago?  How'd that work out for ya?  But I'm sure CCP will see you for the magnanimous pilots you are, and will award you seven guardian-vexors for your service to the public good.
We have never pushed for bombers to be nerfed. Hell, we just burned down delve and fountain with them. The fountain war was dubbed the bomber war. |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:53:00 -
[176] - Quote
The only thing this thread achieves is to make you look like whining cowards ... |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2629
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:55:00 -
[177] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Gogela wrote: Blockade runners can't be caught in lowsec.  Check out the Rancer and Negative Ten KB and you will find that BRs are not so "uncatchable". You shut your ***** mouth. They are impossible to catch if a pod has the very basic fundamental skills of flying a blockade runner. If you loose one you are an idiot.
|

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:56:00 -
[178] - Quote
Gogela wrote:TharOkha wrote:Gogela wrote: Blockade runners can't be caught in lowsec.  Check out the Rancer and Negative Ten KB and you will find that BRs are not so "uncatchable". You shut your ***** mouth. They are impossible to catch if a pod has the very basic fundamental skills of flying a blockade runner. If you loose one you are an idiot. You are totally embarrassing yourself right now ... ... and i doubt your words.
Maybe you just lack the skills. I sense some serious madness in you. "You shut your ***** mouth" ...
Also: lose |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
868
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:07:00 -
[179] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote: Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine.
Did you read my post or are you just ignoring the fact that i already wrote how to catch skilled t3 pilots?
like a number of nulsec posters, he only ever uses tiers 2-3 of the argument pyramid ie ad hominem & contradiction
for some allegedly intelligent people they have remarkably poor debating skills, though it is possible some of them do it deliberately to avoid the forum rules regarding trolling/personal attacks (tier 1 of the argument pyramid) ... but either way you are being trolled
your best and easiest course of action click their name just below the avatar click hide posts
and say hello to a happier, more troll free forum. |

Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
450
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:08:00 -
[180] - Quote
Hey, at least we get pretty new bubble effects to laugh at while we pass through them I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
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