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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
518
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Posted - 2013.10.16 04:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
There is always a lot of talk on the forums from the null sec cartel crowd about the profitability of high sec mission running, especially in comparison to null sec.
There are often calls to nerf nerf nerf missions in high sec and buff null sec to encourage people to move out of high sec.
About a month ago somebody ask me to test out my theory that null sec income is already vastly superior to high sec, which I believed to be true, based on my observations of null seccers running sanctums in complete safety in deep null.
So I took it upon myself to grab a couple of battleships, sneak them through a wormhole and run some sanctums myself in Goonsec.
I made around 80 million isk per hour. However I suspected that I could do quite a lot better so I did a bit of research and fitted out a passive Proteus and run some combat sites.
I made between 100 and 500 million an hour depending on the drops but the going was quite slow and I had a lot of sites stolen before completion since I'm plexing in hostile space. So I did some more research and discovered that a properly fit Ishtar can run virtually any serpentis / guristas null site.
Yesterday I made 1 billion isk in 45 minutes running The Maze, a few minutes before that I ran a Guristas Military Operations Complex and made an additional 500 million or so. Apart from the modules I looted 2 faction BS BPC's worth 600 million. I think in total I made 2 billion on both sites. About 2 hours worth of combat sites.
I can easily make a billion isk per day running between 2 and 5 sites. Sure some don't drop anything, but the majority do. The Guristas Military Operations site has 3 guaranteed (1 Hac, 2 BS) dread guristas spawns plus a 100 million in OE. The Maze is guaranteed to drop 160 mill OE and will usually drop Pith X-Type loot worth hundreds of millions.
The most common sites can be run in minutes, with a good chance at a DG battleship or an escalation to a DG BS.
I will never waste my time running L4 missions, or even L5 missions when even as a ninja plexer, who needs to cloak up for hours sometimes when Goons come into system with their silly probes, can make a billion or more a day.
Can you imagine how much alliance peeps are making having stations, fitting, friends and complete safety that I don't have the luxury of having.
Given that, what is this rubbish about L4's and their amazing profitablity??? Curious minds would like to know. |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
39
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!
You can even bring the noctis out, unescorted.
Seriously though, my null adventure involved a tachy oracle and excitement when I got a 5 mil tick. I cant imagine it's a guristas/bloods difference. Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6177
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
As I've said before, it's not about how much money you can make in either place, it's how much effort is needed for a given amount of money. EVE Online - A Rigged Game |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
518
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Posted - 2013.10.16 05:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!
You can even bring the noctis out, unescorted.
Seriously though, my null adventure involved a tachy oracle and excitement when I got a 5 mil tick. I cant imagine it's a guristas/bloods difference. You realize that in a combat site you cannot be hot dropped and you also cannot be surprised now that a cloaky must uncloak to use an acceleration gate? You can also drop a couple of cans at the warp in point to decloak any cloaky you miss using the acceleration gate. The majority are multiple gated sites so cloaky must use multiple gates and slow boat to each acceleration gate.
If you have an alt on the entry gate there is 0% chance you'll ever be surprised by a cloaky since you'll see them uncloak. Been out there for a month deep in Goon space and haven't so much as been locked by a Goon. You would have to blind and completely wasted to get caught in a combat site. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
275
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!
You can even bring the noctis out, unescorted.
Seriously though, my null adventure involved a tachy oracle and excitement when I got a 5 mil tick. I cant imagine it's a guristas/bloods difference.
The ishtar will shoot a 15m tick in a low end gurista anom (forlorn rally point and forlorn den). It will do close on 20m tick in a hub, which I'll have when I next import a PDA (jump freighter task), but I'll probably go over to battleship ratting for that too.
I got 3 8/10s and 2 6/10s spawn last month. I generally keep an eye on evemaps so I have an idea if others have cleared combat content out of my TZ.
All that has to happen to Ziona is an explorer finds her range area in the TZ ahead of her, and that whole area will be screwed as she has no agreement with nearby people to not take all the content, and that person will just log on, day after day taking all the content.
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Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Nulli Secunda
557
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP nerf guristas I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
Anomaly One
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
High sec income is complete ****, anyone who even argues about it should (edited) am not even joking it's pathetic how much people whine when you can make 10x the money in null sec in 1 hour in ANY profession.
When I started off everyone was ranting how much high sec was good income and needs to get nerfed and months later i'm llike are you ******* kidding me unless you complete every lvl 4 mission in 4 mins it isn't that good of an income, even solo mining in null is better.
The "effort" required is pointless since you make so much more in other areas you can replace those oh so dangerous losses much quicker.. if high sec even required more effort with the shi.t pay that it is no one would be there except concord because half the ******* population will leave. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2695
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't even know anymore. I know scams in highsec pay about 3x what scams in nullsec pay. Why are you playing the game? Play against the players. There's where the isk is.
Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
521
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gogela wrote:I don't even know anymore. I know scams in highsec pay about 3x what scams in nullsec pay. Why are you playing the game? Play against the players. There's where the isk is. Scams are for girls
Tauranon wrote:Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!
You can even bring the noctis out, unescorted.
Seriously though, my null adventure involved a tachy oracle and excitement when I got a 5 mil tick. I cant imagine it's a guristas/bloods difference. ... All that has to happen to Ziona is an explorer finds her range area in the TZ ahead of her, and that whole area will be screwed as she has no agreement with nearby people to not take all the content, and that person will just log on, day after day taking all the content. Nah. I'll just move somewhere else. I don't have a base. |
Prince Kobol
1047
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:There is always a lot of talk on the forums from the null sec cartel crowd about the profitability of high sec mission running, especially in comparison to null sec.
There are often calls to nerf nerf nerf missions in high sec and buff null sec to encourage people to move out of high sec.
About a month ago somebody ask me to test out my theory that null sec income is already vastly superior to high sec, which I believed to be true, based on my observations of null seccers running sanctums in complete safety in deep null.
So I took it upon myself to grab a couple of battleships, sneak them through a wormhole and run some sanctums myself in Goonsec.
I made around 80 million isk per hour. However I suspected that I could do quite a lot better so I did a bit of research and fitted out a passive Proteus and run some combat sites.
I made between 100 and 500 million an hour depending on the drops but the going was quite slow and I had a lot of sites stolen before completion since I'm plexing in hostile space. So I did some more research and discovered that a properly fit Ishtar can run virtually any serpentis / guristas null site.
Yesterday I made 1 billion isk in 45 minutes running The Maze, a few minutes before that I ran a Guristas Military Operations Complex and made an additional 500 million or so. Apart from the modules I looted 2 faction BS BPC's worth 600 million. I think in total I made 2 billion on both sites. About 2 hours worth of combat sites.
I can easily make a billion isk per day running between 2 and 5 sites. Sure some don't drop anything, but the majority do. The Guristas Military Operations site has 3 guaranteed (1 Hac, 2 BS) dread guristas spawns plus a 100 million in OE. The Maze is guaranteed to drop 160 mill OE and will usually drop Pith X-Type loot worth hundreds of millions.
The most common sites can be run in minutes, with a good chance at a DG battleship or an escalation to a DG BS.
I will never waste my time running L4 missions, or even L5 missions when even as a ninja plexer, who needs to cloak up for hours sometimes when Goons come into system with their silly probes, can make a billion or more a day.
Can you imagine how much alliance peeps are making having stations, fitting, friends and complete safety that I don't have the luxury of having.
Given that, what is this rubbish about L4's and their amazing profitablity??? Curious minds would like to know.
Whilst this may be true the issue is that only a few pilots per day can run these sites, what about the thousands of others?
The competition is insane.
In HS you can run lvl4 missions for as long as you can stay conscious for in relative safety. Yeah the isk isn't great, but the difference is that you can run them non-stop and you are not competing with anybody else so you more or less have a guaranteed income.
Hence the number of bots running L4's |
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Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
39
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:
The ishtar will shoot a 15m tick in a low end gurista anom (forlorn rally point and forlorn den). It will do close on 20m tick in a hub, which I'll have when I next import a PDA (jump freighter task), but I'll probably go over to battleship ratting for that too.
I got 3 8/10s and 2 6/10s spawn last month. I generally keep an eye on evemaps so I have an idea if others have cleared combat content out of my TZ.
All that has to happen to Ziona is an explorer finds her range area in the TZ ahead of her, and that whole area will be screwed as she has no agreement with nearby people to not take all the content, and that person will just log on, day after day taking all the content.
This is where another nullsec perk kicks in, vast swathes of empty empty space. Odds are when you see one or two "property owners" in local, they aren't in that constellation for the PVE.
So there is likely a large amount of this content that goes untapped, simply for lack of willingness to move. Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies Get Off My Lawn
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1313
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rumtin wrote:Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites. If a solo ninja can find an empty system for themselves, why can't a sov holder with maps/bridges/intel? |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
523
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Rumtin wrote:Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites. If a solo ninja can find an empty system for themselves, why can't a sov holder with maps/bridges/intel? Well I plexed in Pure Blind, Fountain, Stain, Period Basis, Paragon Soul, pretty much where the wormholes take me and there are plexes everywhere, they constantly respawn. The Maze I ran the other day was there for 24 hours, I saw it late at night and was too tired to run it logged in the next day and it was still there. Its supposed to be one of the best to run. People that say they are fought over likely are speaking of sites one or two jumps from their home systems.
You're right, so much space, so many sites to run. Even the low end ones, like bases, which everyone seem to ignore are very profitable. They take 2 minutes to complete and most often have a faction BS or an escalation in which you warp in, pop a single faction battleship, loot and hopefully get a further escalation to another very easy faction battleship...
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
909
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
There is major flaw in your 1 billion / hour calculation: you forgot to include billions in lost ships and hundreds of hours you've spent to gain knowledge of null. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
275
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Rumtin wrote:Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites. If a solo ninja can find an empty system for themselves, why can't a sov holder with maps/bridges/intel?
Because corps have to come to agreements about content otherwise alliances won't function, where as all a neut cares about is "is the system empty in my TZ".
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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
106
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hi,
you have found out about complex running. It is the good stuff.
Spod
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Zappity
Kurved Space
535
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've been wandering through null in an alt lately. I see HEAPS of combat sites available in both NPC and sov null. I donGÇÖt understand why anyone would run missions in highsec. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
535
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
What's the Ishtar fit? I have no clue about PvE fits but those sure are tempting sums :) Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Ivain Freir
Aggressive Behaviours Nap or War
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?
To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ? It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job. |
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
909
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I've been wandering through null in an alt lately. I see HEAPS of combat sites available in both NPC and sov null. I donGÇÖt understand why anyone would run missions in highsec.
Because
- combat exploration is overcomplicated;
- it's even more boring and frustrating than L4s (scanning mini-game, PvP in PvE ship, etc.);
- people don't need that much money for comfortable (hi-sec) gameplay.
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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
606
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!
Cloaky T3 are not that big a threat if you run the DED sites.
Unless he scanned it first and is waiting inside it.
If you run the sites with 2 - 3 dudes it should not be a problem. They can't bridge inside and don't make a lot of damage. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
275
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ivain Freir wrote:In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?
To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ? It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job.
The people that "secure" the space will shoot ziona if they get a lock.
Their population in their own system will of course vary with deployments.
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Zappity
Kurved Space
535
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Posted - 2013.10.16 07:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Zappity wrote:I've been wandering through null in an alt lately. I see HEAPS of combat sites available in both NPC and sov null. I donGÇÖt understand why anyone would run missions in highsec. Because people don't need that much money for comfortable (hi-sec) gameplay.[/list]
What 'gameplay' is there in highsec apart from mission running? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
I can safely do L4s solo with one account whenever I want and the session doesn't end with "I wish D-scan had a key-bind" |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
606
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:There is major flaw in your 1 billion / hour calculation: you forgot to include billions in lost ships and hundreds of hours you've spent to gain knowledge of null.
I have run hundrets of DED sites in both 0.0 and very active FW lowsec. I have never lost a ship that way, but I made a lot of kills on people trying to kill me.
If you don't want to fight it's not that hard to avoid it. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
525
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:There is major flaw in your 1 billion / hour calculation: you forgot to include billions in lost ships and hundreds of hours you've spent to gain knowledge of null. No I didn't forget that. Only time I lost a ship in null recently was through stupidity (attacking obvious hotdrop bait and obvious battleship bait). Up until recently I was a highsec only war deccer / missioner. I'm relatively a null sec newb.
Zappity the fits pretty standard.
Highs
Civilian turret Cloaking device Drone link
Mids
Corelum 10MN AB Pith C-Type Med Shield Booster Pith X-Type Kinetic Hardner Pith X-Type Thermal Hardner Pith X-Type EM Hardner (for The Maze Torp only)
Lows
3 Drone damage Amp II Nanofibre II Damage Control II
Rigs
Anti-Thermal Rig II That rig that speeds up booster cycles lol |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
525
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ivain Freir wrote:In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?
To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ? It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job. The reason I posted this was not to say null doesn't deserve extra bling but to try to dispell the myth that is commonly posted on this forum that high sec missions are better or more profitable than null sec.
There are even suggestions sometimes that null seccers come to high to run missions to support their null play. Given that combat sites are so easy, require no standings and generate better bounties alone but also offer these billion isk bonanzas in loot quite often I find that really difficult to believe. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
563
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Of course of the what....5 8/10s I've for done lately I've gotten nothing but overseers and a couple webs.
And you need three ships to break a prison colony |
Amber Kurvora
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
15
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Posted - 2013.10.16 08:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ivain Freir wrote:In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?
To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ? It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job.
You know what? Cry me a river. Day trippers into Null take risks with every hole they visit or every gate they jump through. They take risk with the locals, and with everyone who takes an interest in what a neutral is doing in a particular system. We don't get an intelligence network to guide us through the problematic parts, and we certainly don't get the knowledge that the people in system are friendlies or potentially hostile. Sure, we don't deal with the hug Null blobs, but that's part and parcel of wanting your own Sov. We just face a different set of dangers in being valid targets for almost everyone we share a system with. |
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