Small gang to me means up to 30 and that is a fleet.

In fact, a fleet start with two ships if you look in a dictionary.

And there was many many nullsec blob fleets with missiles : Drake, Tengu, Caracal, Talwar ; I heard even Crow fleets are thing now.

Not entirely, but the Caldari are largely missile-based. If you made a short-list of the top 3 missile ships and the top 3 hybrid ships, Caldari would dominate the former but probably be large absent from the latter. I think if we addressed sentry drones and drone assist you might see fleet doctrines change a bit. I'm not entirely optimistic this will happen at the rate CCP seems to be pumping out drone-based ships, thoughGǪ

That is an interesting suggestion, to be sure.

Why are you guys so mad about missiles being bad at fleets? So are combat drones, so are blasters, so are entire classes of ships.

the fun of null

Besides, you guys should stop looking at caldari ships to put this on as a main weapon system.

Besides, you guys should stop looking at caldari ships to put this on as a main weapon system.

Sure it's a weird, niche system now, but rapid launchers are in a weird, niche place anyway. Every other system has 2 versions, while missiles now have 3. That's not to say that it's perfect , just that its no longer "do this or you're dumb".

I like how you mention "easy" frig. Like somehow, the only frigates that die to RLML are the ones that suck.

Nice try on attempting to downplay my point though. I kill most frigs within 5-8 missiles.

So because my play style is not "preferred", it makes the weapon system useless?

First, it will be even more niche then before and second, it will be useful more on Minmatar ships than Caldari one's which means Caldari pilots have every right to protest.

So because my play style is not "preferred", it makes the weapon system useless? So.. i'm killing frigates, using a weapon system designed to kill frigates, but thats not how i should be using it.. because someone wants their constant stream of missiles that frigates have no defense over? At least the RLML, they have a chance to overpower and kill the target through the reload. Yes, i did mention that RLML are hilariously overpowered, until the reload, which then gives frigate pilots a chance to kill RLML boats. That means, your tactics must change (by being fast, and warping off if things get hectic) so you can continue killing frigates, but avoid being taken out yourself.

Mostly, yes.


Most frigs you say... tell us about those frigs you couldn't kill?


First, it will be even more niche then before and second, it will be useful more on Minmatar ships than Caldari one's which means Caldari pilots have every right to protest.

1. uh huh? Suppose you should check my KM post.. i see a dram there, from what every missile user is stating here, an a/b fit frigate is impossible to kill with RLML within 1 clip.. think my experience begs to differ.

2. I've yet to have a frigate live through my RLML unless i miss point, or he jumps through a gate

3. Yet, you still forget about the ONI for RLML, when i've clearly shown its still more than capable. If a Bellicose can kill a frig, an ONI, and for that matter a caracal, can as well with RLML. So, ScyFI = ONI, and Caracal = Bellicose. Those are your equivalents. Minmatar do have a better ship for RHML, but for anti-frigate, they're about the same. If i had caldari cruiser trained, i would gladly get kills to prove my point.

Killmails you say?

Yes, its the same guy in both kills (he didn't learn the first time i guess). I was harassing a solar gate camp. I'll keep adding to the KM's, don't worry. RLML are nice change of pace from brawling. Fun to separate people from their gang and obliterate them away from their friends.

Haha ! That becomes hilarious ! Now that someone manage to use RLML correctly, it's just not enough !

So that's what I said at the begining in fact : whiners here are just looking for an OP weapon system able to blap whole fleets of frigates without even piloting or thinking.

Are people seriously implying that all missiles are bad, or just the new terrible rapid launchers?

Back to the discussion.

Indeed. I've grudgingly given up trying to make either of the rapids work and switch back to heavies. Three rigors and a target painter should put them close to on par with the old lights, especially if I utilize Precision ammunition. I think the Caracal Navy has some interesting unrealized potential in that it has a built-in 25% explosion radius, so with three rigors you can probably dispense with the target painter altogether.

This was the original post that was there before I realized it doesn't really belong here. You might be interested in the basic idea though. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4018399#post4018399

You wouldn't believe (then again, you probably would) the flak I got for simply proposing a Ballistic Enhancer. "Sure, if tracking disruptors will effect missiles." Yeah, because a Corax has so many low slots to play with anyway... I'm really starting to harbour some serious animosity towards turret players. They know missiles are fundamentally broken, and they know damage application from the "always hit" mechanic is near-zero. They also know that FoF missiles are extremely easy to counter. Yet they're still on the anti-missile pilgrimage to completely wreck this system if they can.

I have no problem with TDs working against missiles once base damage application on half the missiles in the game isn't totally putrid. Until then I think it would probably be one step forward and one step back.

Therein lies the problem, which turret players don't seem to be able to fathom.

Maybe we should feel bad about saying mean things about them when they're not here to insult us for being stupid missile pilots who just want our OP missiles to be even more OP and woe is them for that one time a Drake/Corax/Kestrel/Raven/Tengu blew them up.
Wait... was that mean to turret pilots? Oops.
If anything TDs should be an active countermeasure that acts as a factor in the application of missile damage instead of acting against the ship. But somehow missiles would be OP with that...

The animosity and misunderstanding between the two groups really could've been avoided if they had simply designed every hull to use turrets and/or missiles (with bonuses to both), and had made missiles the cross-race weapon they seem to have originally intended them to be. Then everyone would understand how bad most missiles are and there would much less resistance to them being halfway decent.

But alas that was a mistake that was made by CCP long ago, and now we live under the tyranny of turret users who quite simply outnumber us.