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Psyrex	Posted - 2006.02.28 12:53:00 - [31] I personally am still wavering between rails and heavy launchers. I can't say that i've actually tested out a full laucher set up yet. anyone want to supply the pro's and con's please? --------------------------------------------- The world is a battle field, pass me my gun!
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.02.28 13:47:00 - [32] Also the BCU's have a pentaly for using more then 1 don't they? So how is it that you guys all use 2?
Titus Z	Posted - 2006.02.28 14:01:00 - [33] Originally by: Taerenius Originally by: Oventoasted how the hell did you fit 3 large shield extenders on there lol. ? 3 large shield extenders is a normal setup for a passively tanked ferox... my current pvp setup is: high: 5x arbalest heavy 2x medium 'knave' nos med: 2x hardener, EM/therm (maybe move to 1x invuln field II soon) 3x large shield extender II low: 3x SPR, 1x BCU II no scram because i fly with at least 1 other person who tackles How is 3 large extenders a normal staple in a pssively tanked ferox? Without some kind of hardner or booster your shields, even up at around 12K will be gone 20 seconds in to any battle where the other pilot knows what he's doing. Try this setup.. 5 Heavy launchers 2 med nos 1 large booster, 1 T2 Invul Field, 1 T2 Photon, 1 T2 Thermal, 1 T2 Ballistic 3 CPR, 1 BCU With that setup and BC lvl 5 your resists will be somewhere in the neighboorhood of 81/84/79/82 Thats a pretty damn tough tank to break.
Disco Flint	Posted - 2006.02.28 14:12:00 - [34] Originally by: ilou hello since i am complete noob can u explain me pls what is passive shield tanking and what active ? thank you Passive tank: slap as many shield extenders on the ship as you can. the time your shield needs to regen is the same nevermind if you have 3000 or 11000 shield hitpoints. so the more shield HP you have, the more you regen per second. fit some shield hardeners (resistance amplifiers if you wanna go all passive) and power diagnostic units to round out. Active tank: large shield booster, anything you can muster to increase your cap / shield boost amount. Not much experience with active tanking, I guess you cant go wrong with some hardeners and pdu's as well. Originally by: Estoramus Also the BCU's have a pentaly for using more then 1 don't they? So how is it that you guys all use 2? if I can remember correctly the effectiveness of the second bcu (after stacking penalty) is 80%'ish, so with Tech2 BCUs you still get a lot of damage increase out of a low slot. hrm, a question about the advanced high precision heavy missiles (currently skilling that way): how exactly does the velocity penalty apply? when firing them or when they're loaded in the launchers? also, does it matter a lot? I desperately tried to speed up my Ferox once... yeah I know, foolish me. Since then the already low speed doesnt bug me. Someone webbing me? pfff k, whatever. sif a brick couldn't already fly circles around me anyway.
Disco Flint	Posted - 2006.02.28 14:22:00 - [35] Edited by: Disco Flint on 28/02/2006 14:22:48 Originally by: Titus Z Originally by: Taerenius Originally by: Oventoasted how the hell did you fit 3 large shield extenders on there lol. ? 3 large shield extenders is a normal setup for a passively tanked ferox... my current pvp setup is: high: 5x arbalest heavy 2x medium 'knave' nos med: 2x hardener, EM/therm (maybe move to 1x invuln field II soon) 3x large shield extender II low: 3x SPR, 1x BCU II no scram because i fly with at least 1 other person who tackles How is 3 large extenders a normal staple in a pssively tanked ferox? Without some kind of hardner or booster your shields, even up at around 12K will be gone 20 seconds in to any battle where the other pilot knows what he's doing. Try this setup.. 5 Heavy launchers 2 med nos 1 large booster, 1 T2 Invul Field, 1 T2 Photon, 1 T2 Thermal, 1 T2 Ballistic 3 CPR, 1 BCU With that setup and BC lvl 5 your resists will be somewhere in the neighboorhood of 81/84/79/82 Thats a pretty damn tough tank to break. passive tanks arent about boosters, they're about to boost your normal shield regen to an amount where it is as good as an active booster, only without the cap drain. Also, if you look really closely, you can spot some hardeners in that setup above ;) 1 EM hardener, 1 InvulField and BC-skill at 5 will make a passive shield tank quite tough and reliable. especially since your tank doesnt break because of your cap running out. A passive tank can regen shields endlessly whereas an active tank will sooner or later run out of cap for the booster. of course, an active tank can take more punishment over a short period, so it's all about what you prefer. and I'll be damned if I can find that thread about passive tanking and the 2.5 rule at 30%... you'd be surprised how much a Ferox with 3 large extenders can regen when her shields are at 30%. edit: spellchecks ftl!
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.02.28 16:05:00 - [36] ok after reading through all that and reading all you guys have to say... hows this? Heavy Launcher x5 Med Nos x2 Large Shield Extender x4 Invuln Shield (maybe a T2 L SB just incase) Ballistic Control System x2 Shield power relay x2 obviously its better with named and T2 mods but one step at a time, and of course i can always lose a extender for a jammer when i put the L T2 SB in (just for kicks) Anyway... thoughts?
Pouah	Posted - 2006.03.01 04:46:00 - [37] maybe only 1 t2 BCS and something else on the low if you have the skills for it. 4x extender 1x hardener seems weaker than 3x extender and 2 hardener to me but i never tried it so it might be just fine :P
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.01 09:24:00 - [38] Where does everyone seem to come up with the idea that if i train BC to lvl 5 i get more resists? Theres nothing about this in the ship details and nothing about this in the skill details. Technically i wouldn't have any resists on the shields unless i use hardeners. Med Slot Setup: Photon Scat hardener x2 Heat Dis x1 Ballistic X1 L SB Maybe a mix of extenders and hardeners?? Thoughts?
Mazzarin	Posted - 2006.03.01 09:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Estoramus Where does everyone seem to come up with the idea that if i train BC to lvl 5 i get more resists? Theres nothing about this in the ship details and nothing about this in the skill details. Technically i wouldn't have any resists on the shields unless i use hardeners. Med Slot Setup: Photon Scat hardener x2 Heat Dis x1 Ballistic X1 L SB Maybe a mix of extenders and hardeners?? Thoughts? Everyone gets "the idea" from a new skill called "reading". Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level.
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.01 09:48:00 - [40] ok now i feel a bit of a pratt. I swear when i read that last night it wasn't there. ...i need more sleep. My bad everyone....hides in shame
VanDam	Posted - 2006.03.01 09:51:00 - [41] Originally by: smallgreenblur The ferrox is an ew boat, make the most of it. For solo pvp i like: 5 heavy launchers, 2 nos mwd, web, scram, 2x multispec, small armor rep, 2 x bcu, 800mm plate. Can take on a hac with ease. By the time they get through your shield resists (bc 5 ftw) and find out you've got a plate on they are usually diving in for the kill, at which point you switch on the web and jammers, and laugh horribly as you slowly kill them. sgb Far enough u might jam but u wont web me i have a 14km webber on my zealot and i can tank a ferox missiles easily man i would rip u apart when i am not jammed and its only a 800mm plated man and its on a caldari ship u would get about 3-4k armor. that aint gonna stop a zealot ripping u apart
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.01 10:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Pouah maybe only 1 t2 BCS and something else on the low if you have the skills for it. 4x extender 1x hardener seems weaker than 3x extender and 2 hardener to me but i never tried it so it might be just fine :P The reason i went for 4 extenders was for the passive Shield regen.
Disco Flint	Posted - 2006.03.01 12:29:00 - [43] fitting 4 large shield extenders will suck a lot of powergrid, probably bringing your Ferox over the limit if you also want to fit some weapons and Nos. All tech1 extenders: 150MW Tech2 extender: 165MW All tech1 Nos: 175MW Tech2 Nos: 200MW then add ~100'ish MW for each Heavy Launcher or ~200'ish MW for every Rail and try to cram it into this: Ferox powergrid: 1000MW I didn't add skills like engineering or shield upgrades yet, but I highly doubt you'll squeeze enough power out of that poor ship. Originally by: VanDam Originally by: smallgreenblur The ferrox is an ew boat, make the most of it. For solo pvp i like: 5 heavy launchers, 2 nos mwd, web, scram, 2x multispec, small armor rep, 2 x bcu, 800mm plate. Can take on a hac with ease. By the time they get through your shield resists (bc 5 ftw) and find out you've got a plate on they are usually diving in for the kill, at which point you switch on the web and jammers, and laugh horribly as you slowly kill them. sgb Far enough u might jam but u wont web me i have a 14km webber on my zealot and i can tank a ferox missiles easily man i would rip u apart when i am not jammed and its only a 800mm plated man and its on a caldari ship u would get about 3-4k armor. that aint gonna stop a zealot ripping u apart EWar ships are not interested in what you would do if you WEREN'T jammed
Greyshadow	Posted - 2006.03.01 12:43:00 - [44] A jamming ferox could be interesting, obviously if the target got a lock on you its a different story but with a passive tank and some heavies you could hold your own for abit. I had a interesting engagement last night in my ferox, was ambushed by four intys, managed to destroy one, make one warp and the last two weren't doing much damage. Decided to warp though just incase something else warped in. Have to admit was shocked how good the ferox was. "Now you see me, now you don't!"
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.01 12:43:00 - [45] Originally by: Disco Flint fitting 4 large shield extenders will suck a lot of powergrid, probably bringing your Ferox over the limit if you also want to fit some weapons and Nos. All tech1 extenders: 150MW Tech2 extender: 165MW All tech1 Nos: 175MW Tech2 Nos: 200MW then add ~100'ish MW for each Heavy Launcher or ~200'ish MW for every Rail and try to cram it into this: Ferox powergrid: 1000MW I didn't add skills like engineering or shield upgrades yet, but I highly doubt you'll squeeze enough power out of that poor ship. Totally agree with you there. I've tried doing the maths but until i get back online i wont be able to get the correct values. With my skills i should have about 1250 PG and about 590 CPU, tight squeeze but might be possible. you have to take into consideration that some skills reduce the amount of PG or CPU needed for mods. Fingers crossed.
Apollo E	Posted - 2006.03.01 12:55:00 - [46] Edited by: Apollo E on 01/03/2006 12:59:28 well passive is when u don't use shield booster and stuff that eats your cap. WRONG PAGE :)
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.01 14:07:00 - [47] might be a stupid question but.... What would be the resists if BC skill was at lvl 5 and there wasn't any hardeners on board?
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:04:00 - [48] anyone?
Disco Flint	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:12:00 - [49] EM: 25,0% Exp: 70,0% Kin: 55,0% Thm: 40,0%
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:13:00 - [50] Originally by: Disco Flint EM: 25,0% Exp: 70,0% Kin: 55,0% Thm: 40,0% Thank you
Greyshadow	Posted - 2006.03.01 16:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Estoramus Originally by: Disco Flint EM: 25,0% Exp: 70,0% Kin: 55,0% Thm: 40,0% Thank you For the love of god I hate maths, whats the formula for this result again? Cheers "Now you see me, now you don't!"
Krazytrader1	Posted - 2006.03.01 17:20:00 - [52] well...this not exactly a pvp set up but its a passive set up. Hi's: 5 arba heavy's, 2 medium nuetralizers Meds: 4 shield extenders, 1 T2 shield charger Lows: 4 shield relays only thing bad about the nuetralizers is if you need to warp out your cap will be gone, but it works great verse nosing set ups. guess some feel 3 extenders and resist mods are better.... anyhooo
Abvrasious	Posted - 2006.03.01 18:38:00 - [53] I personally preferred Active tank on my Ferox. 2x Large Shield Extender II 1x Invulnerability Field 1x EM Shield Hardener 1x Shield Booster Amplifier 1x Large Shield Booster (or Medium if you want to run it almost 100% of the time). If you can get a named Booster, that will help a TON. Without Uber skills I think I had 9k Shields and could tank quite a bit. You can swap out the SBA for a Cap Recharger or such, or perhaps a third hardener. ------------- www.eve-files.com/media/corp/20thb/Abra-Banner.jpg[/img] Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
Disco Flint	Posted - 2006.03.02 10:30:00 - [54] Edited by: Disco Flint on 02/03/2006 10:35:06 Originally by: Greyshadow Originally by: Estoramus Originally by: Disco Flint EM: 25,0% Exp: 70,0% Kin: 55,0% Thm: 40,0% Thank you For the love of god I hate maths, whats the formula for this result again? Cheers eesh now I, the one who just barely ever made it through maths, get to explain formulas, yay! ;) alright, the resistance bonii, be it through skills or hardeners, always apply on the remaining damage you'd take. Example: By default you have a 0% EMP resistance, take 100% dmg from EMP, so you'd get the full 5% bonus per bc-skill level. For kinetic damage, the default resistance is 40%, so you'll get the 5% bonus on the remaining 60%. 60/100=0,6; 0,6*5=3 -> 5% bonus on resistances yields a 3% 'real' bonus on your kinetic resistance. Hardeners & resistance amplifiers are applied the same way, when fitting more than one for each type, don't forget to take the stacking penalty into accaunt, too. edit: finally found the accurate stacking penalties, woo go me. 1st mod: c(1) = 100,000% effectiveness 2nd mod: c(2) = 86,9119842% effectiveness 3d mod: c(3) = 57,1037996% effectiveness 4th mod: c(4) = 28,2469117% effectiveness 5th mod: c(5) = 10,5988834% effectiveness 6th mod: c(6) = 2,9989473% effectiveness 7th mod: c(7) = 0,5134081% effectiveness 8th mod: c(8) = 0,2106917% effectiveness
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.02 10:31:00 - [55] Well last night i set up my Ferox and i was quite pleased with the result but not 100% happy....yet. At first i set up the usual active resistance tank, so lots of hardeners and also full missle bays with a couple of nos's. i wasn't too pleased with the damage i was doing as i'm mainly skilled for turrets. so i switch to turrets. 4 rails 1 heavy launcher and 2 smaller launchers for the smaller targets and faster rate of fire. still have 4 large extenders and 1 large tech 2 shield booster. 1 tech 2 PDS and 1 named PDS. 2 reacter control's. tanking is no problem what so ever, 12k shields. With a max shield regen of 46 shield per second which is 184 shield every 4 seconds. Compare that to the large shield booster (tech 2) which does 160 shield every 4 seconds. So 184 shields per 4 seconds without the use of cap, and with the addition of my tech 2 shield booster i can get a total of 344 shields every 4 seconds.
Greyshadow	Posted - 2006.03.02 18:49:00 - [56] Originally by: Estoramus Well last night i set up my Ferox and i was quite pleased with the result but not 100% happy....yet. At first i set up the usual active resistance tank, so lots of hardeners and also full missle bays with a couple of nos's. i wasn't too pleased with the damage i was doing as i'm mainly skilled for turrets. so i switch to turrets. 4 rails 1 heavy launcher and 2 smaller launchers for the smaller targets and faster rate of fire. still have 4 large extenders and 1 large tech 2 shield booster. 1 tech 2 PDS and 1 named PDS. 2 reacter control's. tanking is no problem what so ever, 12k shields. With a max shield regen of 46 shield per second which is 184 shield every 4 seconds. Compare that to the large shield booster (tech 2) which does 160 shield every 4 seconds. So 184 shields per 4 seconds without the use of cap, and with the addition of my tech 2 shield booster i can get a total of 344 shields every 4 seconds. If your going for pvp though I would definately fit some nos, ok the damage output might be not great but your beable to stay in the battle for longer with nos. "Now you see me, now you don't!"
Estoramus	Posted - 2006.03.03 09:18:00 - [57] Originally by: Greyshadow If your going for pvp though I would definately fit some nos, ok the damage output might be not great but your beable to stay in the battle for longer with nos. got that covered with drones
Vivian LeGrau	Posted - 2006.03.14 12:29:00 - [58] Edited by: Vivian LeGrau on 14/03/2006 12:34:51 Guys,lets get things clearer. Our main concern are the mid slots as the hi slots are more or less the same for pvp build. Low slots are also under similar route. So what about the mid slots? Other say that passive tanking in pvp is not viable, others not.But what about a ferox that can web and scramble,then nos the enemy to his bones and blow him up with the missiles.From the other hand everything smaller than a bc is faster than ferox (base speed) so we need to boost our speed with ab so we can somehow reach them. Imagine shooting something that has good armor resistancies and can tank your 4 or 5 heavies(that you shoot from your safe distance)for veeeery long time.What would you do then? Ok he may not be able to kill you but neither will you. Wouldn't be better if you were at 10km,then web,scramble and nos him so that eventualy you break his tank while your missiles blow him up? Unfortunately there are only 5 mid slots so we must use them wisely.If we put 1x Web 1x Warp scr 1x AB then we have 2 remaining slots. would it be viable to put 1x Large booster 1x Invuln. field and when I say viable I mean during the time you web-scrab-nos the enemy to brake his tanking you should hold your shield as long as you can.So please lets discuss a little on this mid setup. And let me give you one more hind: what about target jamming? you can say that target jamming could be considered as a defence module because as long as the enemy cannot target you, you save capacity (from boosting or hardening) AND last longer(save time is very valuable thing). Could we fit one or 2? Would it be viable a full aggro-ferox like 1x Web 1x Warp scr 1x Multispectral jamming 1x AB (maybe mwd could be fitted) 1x Shield booster (or hardener??) I am looking forward to read your opinions, any advise/suggestion would be welcomed, but please analyze and explain what you write so that everyone understands it completely. Thanks. ------------------------- ...UNDER CONSTRUCTION...
Gaul Cascade	Posted - 2006.03.14 13:08:00 - [59] Estoramus, please be aware that 12000 HP of unhardened shields are basically nothing. Im not sure which level of missions you are running (If at all), but you will NEED some hardeners in there. And train up for T2 large extenders. They are definately worth it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cascade ááááááááiss NAVY
Ozzie Asrail	Posted - 2006.03.14 14:36:00 - [60] I'm really stating to like my ferox for pvp. Reasonably cheap for when i lose them :) 5x Limos Heavies, 2x Goul Nos 1x Large Extender II, 1x Large SB II, 1x Invuln, 1x Web and 1x Scram (or painter or cap recharger if in larger gang) 2x bcu, 1x pds II and 1x Damage Control.

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