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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.01 18:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: F2C MaDMaXX on 01/03/2006 18:43:17
Ok, little later than i said, but here are some softer warp sounds as requested in the warp drive sounds thread from a few days ago.
They do not replace the existing sounds permantly
They can be easily deleted and the original sounds will return automatically
You do not need any fancy tools or editing to get them working
They are 99.9% unlikely to cause you any problems
They are as follows, the original "go to warp" and "drop from warp" sounds, but i've softened them a little and tweaked the volumes to be easier on peoples ears.
All you need to do, is go to the ccp directory and go into the res directory. In here, create a new directory called sound
Then inside the sound directory, create another new one called effect
Then download the following sounds into that directory;
Warp in and Out sound
Warp explode sound
If you don't like or want the sounds, just delete the two sound files and it will work as normal again.
FYI, CCP appeared to use another sound to enter warp at one point, but they currently use some weird cue points in engine code to choose a start point within one sound for it. This makes it much harder to make a custom sound for the warp sound, although i've done it, its not 100% perfect (which i have a problem with) and therefore, unless i get more specific info from CCP, i'll not release it.
Anyway, see what you think of these sounds, have fun :)
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Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
Ralus
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Posted - 2006.03.01 18:46:00 -
[2]
Quality idea dl'ing now
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.01 18:53:00 -
[3]
Nice 
It seems EVE has the same cool trick that most games with packed datafiles has--you can override datafiles by making your own folders with custom files. People did this to mod Homeworld and the like. I remember having quite a bit of fun "adjusting" the refire rate of the Heavy Cruiser 
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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lofty29
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Posted - 2006.03.01 18:58:00 -
[4]
I love that  Its a helluvalot more spacey.
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 Originally by: Wrangler
I see boobies!! \o/
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.03.01 18:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Nice
It seems EVE has the same cool trick that most games with packed datafiles has--you can override datafiles by making your own folders with custom files. People did this to mod Homeworld and the like. I remember having quite a bit of fun "adjusting" the refire rate of the Heavy Cruiser
oooohhh.... and I remember modding HW with B5 ships
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Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:12:00 -
[6]
And I for one won't use them without specific approval from CCP, good as they are. (Same thing for replacement fonts)
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:24:00 -
[7]
May i ask why that is, Maya?
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Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
May i ask why that is, Maya?
Because its very naughty young one.
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:35:00 -
[9]
I'm sorry, what!?
Ugh, right ok, files not allowed to be changed are kept under protection, you wouldn't be able to substitute them. If most people play with their sound off, then there is evidently no/little benefit to sounds, therefore customising some sounds, in this case, sounds that are poorly normalised, is perfectly fine (IMHO)
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
lofty29
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:48:00 -
[10]
Just what I beleive. It will give you no advantage in combat or anything else, just like the font changes. It is *technically* a breach of the EULA, a very minor one, but so was adding personal MP3's to your jukebox, and CCP just turned a blind eye. Those nice fellas 
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Originally by: Wrangler
I see boobies!! \o/
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kieron
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:57:00 -
[11]
Modifying the game files in any manner, including changing sounds, ship images, splash screens,font, etc. is a violation of the EULA. If discovered, actions up to and including a permanent ban can be levied against the offender.
I don't like sounding like a hard case about seemingly hamless changes like this, but I have to make sure that the EULA is clearly understood.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies!
YAY Cookies!! -Kaemonn |
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Asane
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:00:00 -
[12]
Well can you consider changing the sound into something ... spacier? 
Would be fun to have an option implemented where you can set up your own sounds for different things,
like locking, docking and such..
Or have soundsetups in the same manner as the interface color
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes -- The image IS 400 x 120 and 64kbs |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/03/2006 20:05:43
Originally by: kieron
Modifying the game files in any manner, including changing sounds, ship images, splash screens,font, etc. is a violation of the EULA. If discovered, actions up to and including a permanent ban can be levied against the offender.
I don't like sounding like a hard case about seemingly hamless changes like this, but I have to make sure that the EULA is clearly understood.
But he isn't modifying the game files. He's inserting new ones.
EVE has exactly the same EULA section as games like Homeworld do (IIRC), yet people modded and skinned Homeworld legally. They never modified a single file.
If the EULA intends to eliminate even adding files to the EVE directory (and how is modifying prefs.ini to add lines like AdvancedDevice=1 not modifying the client?!), then this without a doubt should be changed.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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CmdrRat
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:07:00 -
[14]
Natural Selection Developer
As in the half life mod?
if thats the case I want my Raven's missiles to sound like the Gorge chuckle.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
But he isn't modifying the game files. He's inserting new ones.
When you insert a file like that, it overrides files in the .stuff files.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Dark Shikari
But he isn't modifying the game files. He's inserting new ones.
When you insert a file like that, it overrides files in the .stuff files.
But doesn't modify them.
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
TheKiller8
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:10:00 -
[17]
I doubt the GMs can see (or care about) cosmetic and purely client-side changes like these. I toned down my warp drive sound a long time ago because it was just so frackin loud compared to all the other Eve sounds.
.: Click 2 See My Flash Animations :. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Dark Shikari
But he isn't modifying the game files. He's inserting new ones.
When you insert a file like that, it overrides files in the .stuff files.
But doesn't modify them.
Of course it does, it just waits until runtime to do it. It modifies the client operation.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
bumcheekcity
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TheKiller8
I doubt the GMs can see (or care about) cosmetic and purely client-side changes like these. I toned down my warp drive sound a long time ago because it was just so frackin loud compared to all the other Eve sounds.
So, you freely admit to having modified your EVE client, even AFTER the post above in big yellow thingies telling us that this was against the rules and you would be beaten over the head with a bat?
Y'know, or words to that description...
--
bumcheekcity
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Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:21:00 -
[20]
Sounds pretty harmless tbh...especially if we modify the pref.ini file.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nyphur
Of course it does, it just waits until runtime to do it. It modifies the client operation.
How so? The client itself is looking for those files.
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Nyphur
Of course it does, it just waits until runtime to do it. It modifies the client operation.
How so? The client itself is looking for those files.
You're seriously asking me how changing a sound IN THE GAME alters the client's operation? Do I even need to answer that?
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
lofty29
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Nyphur
Of course it does, it just waits until runtime to do it. It modifies the client operation.
How so? The client itself is looking for those files.
You're seriously asking me how changing a sound IN THE GAME alters the client's operation? Do I even need to answer that?
You also dramatically changed your point. Firstly you said it overwrites game files, then you said it changes the client operation. Touche! 
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Originally by: Wrangler
I see boobies!! \o/
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David Sinclair
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: kieron
Modifying the game files in any manner, including changing sounds, ship images, splash screens,font, etc. is a violation of the EULA. If discovered, actions up to and including a permanent ban can be levied against the offender.
I don't like sounding like a hard case about seemingly hamless changes like this, but I have to make sure that the EULA is clearly understood.
CCP is normally pretty cool, but that's just assanine. In an MMORPG, there's no harm in changing graphics/sounds. If I were to decide to make Mining Barges look like giant pink carebears, it wouldn't let me hit them any easier, detect them any sooner, or lock on any faster.
Frankly, I think it would highly benefit the game if I were to finish the Scorpion's other wing and make the Ferox properly symmetrical. That extra thruster has got to go.
It's just like with WoW, I modified the Paladin's "Exorcism" sound to use the loud gothic church gong from Warcraft 2. Made runs through Stratholme and Scholomance much more fun.
Game mods are nothing to fear. They should, indeed, be embraced. Look at Half-life. It was a half-way decent game that would have been completely forgotten in a year or two if it hadn't been for modders. Even just model/sound replacements can open up a awful lot of creativity in your game community.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:58:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/03/2006 20:59:06
...right.
So, when can we expect the LONG overdue volume fix for this sound, Kieron? This sound is the sole reason I NEVER turn client sounds on, since I find it actively painful if I have the volume high enough to hear anything else at all.
Ditto, when will there be a choice of fonts, or a replacement with something more reasonable?
You have every right to ban client-side changes, but you should then listen to your customers on UI issues which are near-universally accnowledged, as these are.
David Sinclair, MMO's work on a different dynamic from other games, in that it can easily enable cheating. I'd agree that WoW has the right idea (and I detest WoW's gameplay) in terms of UI mods, but without a system like that banning any modification is necessary.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: lofty29
You also dramatically changed your point. Firstly you said it overwrites game files, then you said it changes the client operation. Touche!
That's the same point. It doesn't modify the game files, it modifies what files are used as the game files by overwriting some, thereby modifying the client's operation at runtime.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
David Sinclair
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Posted - 2006.03.01 21:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
David Sinclair, MMO's work on a different dynamic from other games, in that it can easily enable cheating. I'd agree that WoW has the right idea (and I detest WoW's gameplay) in terms of UI mods, but without a system like that banning any modification is necessary.
It depends on what you're editing. The sound/model/texture replacement stuff is completely harmless. UI mods in Eve would not be, since unlike WoW, CCP has not provided an API to work through, so you'd have to modify the python which could actually affect game behavior. Clearly, bad juju there.
Regardless of WoW's many... issues... they did get some things right. UI modding is certainly one of them. The sound/texture/model replacement in WoW works just like in does in Eve, making the directories and putting uncompressed replacements there.
The trick with modding is to clearly deliniate what is proper and what isn't. With WoW, it was "Anything done through the API is fine, if we don't like it, we'll change the API." That was really the proper attitude to take.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nyphur
That's the same point. It doesn't modify the game files, it modifies what files are used as the game files by overwriting some at runtime, thereby modifying the client's operation at runtime.
Sorry, had to go to a meeting, else I would have responded.
But since a person who takes a CCP paycheck has already chimed in that it's against the EULA, all other points are moot. Moving on.
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Tony Fats
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: kieron
Modifying the game files in any manner, including changing sounds, ship images, splash screens,font, etc. is a violation of the EULA. If discovered, actions up to and including a permanent ban can be levied against the offender.
I don't like sounding like a hard case about seemingly hamless changes like this, but I have to make sure that the EULA is clearly understood.
Then maybe CCP should do its job and have decent warp sounds that don't make you want to turn off your speakers after the 50th time you hear it.
You should be offering this guy a job, not jacking his thread.
IF $Mod > $OriginalGame THEN do HireModMakerAndHaveABetterGame
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Nyphur
That's the same point. It doesn't modify the game files, it modifies what files are used as the game files by overwriting some at runtime, thereby modifying the client's operation at runtime.
Sorry, had to go to a meeting, else I would have responded.
But since a person who takes a CCP paycheck has already chimed in that it's against the EULA, all other points are moot. Moving on.
Yeah, was about to say that. It's been answered from above - no point in arguing now ^^;.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:24:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/03/2006 22:24:46
To be honest I think this position by CCP is somewhat silly, considering that I have never seen a game in my entire time gaming that specifically had a system to make modding easy like EVE does (as was deleted in the original post) but yet did not allow modding.
Hell I have never seen a game that didn't allow modding. Ever.
I have never, ever seen an explanation by the devs, ever, for this.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:26:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Grimpak on 01/03/2006 22:26:33
Indeed I do agree with Shikari.
Imho, at least the sound should be allowed to be modded somehow.
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:28:00 -
[33]
I concur.
Heh, we finally got some more sound options with one of the last patches, and it included nearly everything i wanted. Except for an option to only have music on, and none of the silly Warp Sounds. (Which kill me btw. Try speaking/listening on TS when you enter warp. Hell, try listening to it with a headset. Either the warp sound is acceptable, but everything else is so low you may aswell play with the sound off, or the music and such is acceptable but you best not try warping off anywhere.)
/Elve |
Kular
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:32:00 -
[34]
I have to agree the warp sound is rediculus, espcially when your on vent/TS.
I like playing with my sounds on most the time, I turned them off for over a year due to combat lag issues, but these days I don't have the same problems, and I love weapons fire and explosions and complex's music!
I admit when I first started I turned my speakers way up just to hear the apartment shake while I was warping
Now though I'd rather not have to fight with warp sounds!
For God, Empire, and Sarum! |
Fortior
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:50:00 -
[35]
I bet the reason for CCP to have this in the EULA is to prohibit people from modding in some advantage for themselves that others don't have. This isn't an issue in Homeworld 1/2 and other single player games since you don't compete with anyone in them. I bet other MMO's have that restriction as well.
And don't expect CCP to change this. It's either no-go for any kind of modding, or free-for-all modding, writing a EULA that would enable some modding and prohibit other kinds is... well... difficult, if you want it to actually mean something.
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Zolofine
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:01:00 -
[36]
Yes yes, justice is blind the law is absolute blahblahblah...
Times like these make me really miss EVE-I forum. No matter, i'll contact this person through some other means and get the file that way. Please feel free to permanently ban my 2 accounts for illigal spl01t modification of the EVE client because someone more 'official' can't be arsed to take 2 minutes time to tone down a soundfile which makes my ears bleed.
Sry if what i say sounds harsh. But this kind of stuff makes CCP unpopular. It's unfair, and noone likes to be treated unfairly. |
Zolofine
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Fortior
I bet the reason for CCP to have this in the EULA is to prohibit people from modding in some advantage for themselves that others don't have. This isn't an issue in Homeworld 1/2 and other single player games since you don't compete with anyone in them. I bet other MMO's have that restriction as well.
And don't expect CCP to change this. It's either no-go for any kind of modding, or free-for-all modding, writing a EULA that would enable some modding and prohibit other kinds is... well... difficult, if you want it to actually mean something.
I'm sry but that is complete hobwash...
Any and all games that are sold for money are 100% copyrighted. From the laser fire sound to the little script sniplet that makes it display an effect when it fires. 'Modding' anything in the game and then sharing it with the public is breaking copyright laws and could be made into a lawsuit. You know all these 'star wars' mods that appear for games. They are 100% in violation with copyright laws. You cannot even have them for yourself let alone share them. But nothing ever happens, because noone really cares.
Wether it's a single player game or not doesn't even matter. The law doesn't deal in single and multyplayer games. It deals in copyrights... |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:09:00 -
[38]
Originally by: bumcheekcity
Originally by: TheKiller8
I doubt the GMs can see (or care about) cosmetic and purely client-side changes like these. I toned down my warp drive sound a long time ago because it was just so frackin loud compared to all the other Eve sounds.
So, you freely admit to having modified your EVE client, even AFTER the post above in big yellow thingies telling us that this was against the rules and you would be beaten over the head with a bat?
Y'know, or words to that description...
Everyone knows the warp sound sucks, everyone its pretty much sucked for well over 2 years (Dunno before that) and everyone knows its not gonna get fixed anyway.
If CCP is gonna waste time and money banning people who want to enjoy their game then were gonna be seeing quite a drop in subscriptions.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Mark A
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:14:00 -
[39]
I've had this mod installed for coming up for 2 years now. I recently had to re-install my client and wondered wtf had gone wrong with the sound until I remembered and restored the mod from a backup.
Note to CCP sound guy:
1. Check out the warp sound from source control.
2. Open it in sound editor.
3. Scale amplitude to 70%.
4. Save it again.
5. Check it back in to source control.
6. Finish your lunch.
Job done.
_____________________________________
Sleep is for the weak. And the sleepy.
There is no lag in...BOARDING SHIP... |
Primarch
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:21:00 -
[40]
I agree completely. The warp sound is very harsh, and just plain hurts the ears. i have lost hearing on TS a fewtimes becuase of the warp sound, and this has nearly been fatal.
Please take a look at it Dev's :P
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Mark A
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:36:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Primarch
I agree completely. The warp sound is very harsh, and just plain hurts the ears. i have lost hearing on TS a fewtimes becuase of the warp sound, and this has nearly been fatal.
Please take a look at it Dev's :P
If you get a USB headset you can route voice through the headset and EVE sound FX through your speakers. Helps a lot with separation.
_____________________________________
Sleep is for the weak. And the sleepy.
There is no lag in...BOARDING SHIP... |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/03/2006 22:24:46
To be honest I think this position by CCP is somewhat silly, considering that I have never seen a game in my entire time gaming that specifically had a system to make modding easy like EVE does (as was deleted in the original post) but yet did not allow modding.
Hell I have never seen a game that didn't allow modding. Ever.
I have never, ever seen an explanation by the devs, ever, for this.
The problem is by allowing even a simple and perfectly harmless modification of the client to go through it opens the way for people to create mods that can be lead ot exploit like situations.
Once that happens the devs have a huge mess to clean up and have to waste alot of time and effort defnining very strict parameters as well as ensuring they are enforced.
The basic truth is that if you give people certain amount of freedom there are always those who will abuse it. It's alot simpler and saves alot of work to simply not allow it to happen (with no exceptions) from the start despite certain situations that arise that seem silly.
That said it would nice if somthing could be done about the warp drive sound but thats for them to decide. Personally alot of the little annoyances like this is why I play eve without sound.
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chillz
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:42:00 -
[43]
Eve has sound?
I turned it off the first time warp kicked in and woke up my 3 year old, she wasn't happy, I wasn't happy, nobody was happy.
Why is it so loud?
If I have the volume low enough so that warp isn't totally intrusive I can't hear the lady.
If I want to hear the lady, I have to put headphones on, which consequently annoys my better half as I'm unable to instantly give my considered opinon on 'this pair of shoes, does my bum look big in this'.
I also have to contend with 'Daddy can you turn your computer off because Tracy Beaker is on now, etc etc...'
Signed for a very quiet warp sound.
-----------------------------------
A gun and a packet of sandwiches.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:45:00 -
[44]
Instead of breaking the EULA, perhaps we should ask for a volume slider for the warp sound? It wouldn't be that hard for CCP to do.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.01 23:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/03/2006 22:24:46
To be honest I think this position by CCP is somewhat silly, considering that I have never seen a game in my entire time gaming that specifically had a system to make modding easy like EVE does (as was deleted in the original post) but yet did not allow modding.
Hell I have never seen a game that didn't allow modding. Ever.
I have never, ever seen an explanation by the devs, ever, for this.
The problem is by allowing even a simple and perfectly harmless modification of the client to go through it opens the way for people to create mods that can be lead ot exploit like situations.
I don't see how this is possible as all calculations are done server-side.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Mechaet
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Posted - 2006.03.02 00:03:00 -
[46]
If CCP wanted to get rid of the problem painlessly they could just release a patch that does nothing but install the quiter warp sound into the specified folder. This way it isn't US modding the program, it's an add-on they released :)
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.02 00:13:00 -
[47]
Hmm, i'm almost sorry i started this (by request) now :(
Thankyou Kieron for stepping in and clearing up the official stance on this.
Yes, Natural selection for Half-life, unfortunately i can't help messing with sounds, though i have to say, only on games i like a good deal and can be bothered improving.
I hate to of stirred up a hornets nest here, but i also appear to have touched on a nerve, the very reason i had a look was because they kinda started bothering me as well as others who originally requested this solution, i still play with sound, i've only been playing just a month this week though.
As someone suggested, this was only a 2 minute job, but if the intellectual design is still what's wanted by the CCP sound guy, then this is probably the preferred method to appeasing peoples wishes.
Various people have queried over the way this breaks the EULA, according to the powers that be, it does. I will only say that this does not edit or alter the game/files directly, the game actively uses files of my creation in a particular location on the harddisk, no eidts or changes to the game were required for this to happen.
I would like CCP to change this sound if they can, i like the style they've gone for, its a nice bit of sound mixing, but its implentation just requires a little more finess to match the rest of the game.
Thanks to the guy who suggested they should give me a job, but i'm sure the sound guy at CCP is quite capable (don't say ill ever turn down a job though ;)
I hope this doesn't cause anyone to be banned, myself in particular! :( i've got my skill training planned for the next 3 months!
Half-life was extended and increased in popularity by various mods and adaptations of this nature, including the Natural-Selection mod i work on, we too have to deal with people trying to edit files and the mod its self to rpevent people getting an unfair advantage, however, i'm so far blind to see what editing is actually able to be performed short of a full blown hack the main servers would pickup before launch.
I hope this can be resolved, i hope CCP can let the sound guy get to work on this, even if its just a simple edit to the magnitude of my own, it would be better than not at all.
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.03.02 00:18:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Nyphur
Instead of breaking the EULA, perhaps we should ask for a volume slider for the warp sound? It wouldn't be that hard for CCP to do.
We asked for that WELL over a year ago. Hard or not, its obviously not important.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.03.02 00:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/03/2006 22:24:46
To be honest I think this position by CCP is somewhat silly, considering that I have never seen a game in my entire time gaming that specifically had a system to make modding easy like EVE does (as was deleted in the original post) but yet did not allow modding.
Hell I have never seen a game that didn't allow modding. Ever.
I have never, ever seen an explanation by the devs, ever, for this.
The problem is by allowing even a simple and perfectly harmless modification of the client to go through it opens the way for people to create mods that can be lead ot exploit like situations.
I don't see how this is possible as all calculations are done server-side.
I'm not talking about calculations mate. I can already think of some basic examples I could give you from what's been done in other games but I really don't want to post them incase they get either deleted or I accidently start giving people bad ideas.
Suffice to say there are ways to use mods to cheat without effecting somthing as simple as calculations.
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chillz
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Posted - 2006.03.02 00:26:00 -
[50]
Warp Sound off, click box. Sorted.
-----------------------------------
A gun and a packet of sandwiches.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.02 00:35:00 -
[51]
Unfortunately, just doing a plain volume cut across the board doesn't sound right, it may of only been a two min job, but it wasn't as simple as plain volume levels.
Plenty of other games have problems with people "hacking" them. Through basic mods, its incridbly hard now, they have to be fully programmed interfacing tools.
The most common advantage people gain by modding this way in the type of games i'm used to, is quite litterally make sounds louder all round, because sounds are important and contain tactical information. People edited sprites and other game content so the player side of it could react and see things more clearly. However, in this kind of game, there is no player reaction skill, there is nothing gained via sound or graphical changes re the gameplay, its purely aesthetics. Otherwise i'm fairly strongly opposed to editing in that way.
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
MissileRus
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Posted - 2006.03.02 00:56:00 -
[52]
i think this should be allowed! if the mods can ask the Devs to approve this, because its not modifying any files and its legal in other games with basicly the same EULA. (WoW nude patch? lol) ok those things i understand.. but lower volume original sound files?
ask the Devs if we could use them, because the warp sounds are 10 times louder then all the other sounds.. 
if someone makes a eve nude patch or messes with textures and stuff, thats different. but this is a sound file with the original sound only the volume is decreased..
if CCP dont want ppl doing this they should add some more sound options to satisfy everyone that cant play eve on speakers because of the warp sounds being 10 times louder.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2006.03.02 01:10:00 -
[53]
Unfortunately they need to make a stance on it because there are abuses of the system that are possible.
Replacing warp drive sounds is harmless, replacing the cloaking texture with a big bright green flashing mesh... not so harmless.
PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2006.03.02 01:32:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Gierling
A cloaked ship's location is never transmitted to the client until it decloaks anyway, so
But I know you were just giving an example 
But yeah, this is not covered by the EULA since no file modification takes place. If the game uses external files, that's no fault of the user, they should change the code.
__________________
Retard's handbook |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.02 01:35:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/03/2006 01:34:54
Originally by: Gierling
Unfortunately they need to make a stance on it because there are abuses of the system that are possible.
Replacing warp drive sounds is harmless, replacing the cloaking texture with a big bright green flashing mesh... not so harmless.
You can't see a cloaked ship unless you are the cloaked ship, I believe. At all.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.03.02 01:52:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gierling
Unfortunately they need to make a stance on it because there are abuses of the system that are possible.
Replacing warp drive sounds is harmless, replacing the cloaking texture with a big bright green flashing mesh... not so harmless.
There is no cloaked ship texture. In fact, I think that your client ONLY knows what the server thinks it the client should know - hence the stupid amount of lag upon entering grids containing large fleet battles.
CCP needs to fix the sound though - I haven't had it on in well over a year.
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:02:00 -
[57]
Hmm. We need a generalist forum like the old EVE-I where we can talk shop.
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Siigari Kitawa
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:20:00 -
[58]
Well.
What a bunch of whiners.
First of all (and I'm not going to contribute to the whining, but hey, I have things to say) the warp sound I believe is loud because, well, YOU'RE BREAKING THE SPEED OF SOUND/LIGHT FFS!!! It's supposed to be loud! Now, it is a very shrilly sound, and the bass barely kicks in, but hey, let's all admit it, the noise is cool.
Now the thing about the real-time modding: the reason it's truly a "hack" is because you're adding things into the game's cache during realtime launch. When the game looks for files to cache to run the game, it finds the files in the root directory (before the stuff file) and accesses and stores those rather than the ones in the stuff file. Therefore, it is directly modifying the game.
Now, to the defense of everyone here complaining about the sound, CCP, I am curious as to why you don't allow players to modifly client-side, non-server FIXED variables and files to make the game more entertaining/usable/whatever. Again, just curious.
_________
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Mind
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:32:00 -
[59]
What i DONT like about the warpsound is the loudness of the slowing down period. Its so out of wack that i rather play without sounds JUST FOR THAT REASON.
All sounds sounds good at a resonable level, but to have the game music on a level that i feel i like, i gotta live with ear shattering warpsound TO.
that is just stupid, either let me have way higher music level or tone down the level of the warpsound.
Tbh, sound managment sucks in EVE...
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:40:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
First of all (and I'm not going to contribute to the whining, but hey, I have things to say) the warp sound I believe is loud because, well, YOU'RE BREAKING THE SPEED OF SOUND/LIGHT FFS!!! It's supposed to be loud! Now, it is a very shrilly sound, and the bass barely kicks in, but hey, let's all admit it, the noise is cool.
In space noone can hear you scream. All sound are rendered by your pod's onboard computers and piped directly into your brain via implants.
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Kray Raven
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:43:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Zolofine
Edited by: Zolofine on 01/03/2006 23:11:55
But nothing ever happens, because noone really cares.
Actually the clever people do care, it prolonged the life of Half Life by almost a decade that people were able to mod it.
And look at World of Warcraft, you can mod the hell of out that (which is one of the reasons they passed 100000 subscribers in the first hour of release) - if enough people complain about something they look into it and may ban it (the launcher will tell you you can't use that anymore). Simple.
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Kray Raven
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:47:00 -
[62]
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
Removed instructions on client modification, which is an EULA violation - Teblin
Sure its a client modification and not a data file addition?
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CmdrRat
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:49:00 -
[63]
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
Yes, Natural selection for Half-life,
Well then may I say it's one hell of a game, the sound design on it really compleats it. When your walking down a hall way and you hear those claws against the wall around the corner my heart beats a little faster, just like when I hear the pitter patter of Gorge feet knowing an easy target or a trap lays around the cornor.
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_________________________________________________________
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Kray Raven
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:49:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And I for one won't use them without specific approval from CCP, good as they are. (Same thing for replacement fonts)
Yeah and the fonts is another thing, totally incompetent design (or are they all 20 year olds with perfect vision and 30 inch screens?) totally undreable interface unless I sit 20 cm's from the screen. Something which should be fixed as well. |
Reekaa
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: kieron
Modifying the game files in any manner, including changing sounds, ship images, splash screens,font, etc. is a violation of the EULA. If discovered, actions up to and including a permanent ban can be levied against the offender.
I don't like sounding like a hard case about seemingly hamless changes like this, but I have to make sure that the EULA is clearly understood.
Yeah, you just overlook none of us have agreed to any EULA - its just some **** we have to click past to get to the game we are paying for.
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Kray Raven
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Posted - 2006.03.02 02:51:00 -
[66]
Originally by: bumcheekcity
Originally by: TheKiller8
I doubt the GMs can see (or care about) cosmetic and purely client-side changes like these. I toned down my warp drive sound a long time ago because it was just so frackin loud compared to all the other Eve sounds.
So, you freely admit to having modified your EVE client, even AFTER the post above in big yellow thingies telling us that this was against the rules and you would be beaten over the head with a bat?
Y'know, or words to that description...
Yes because they are wrong and we are right, and they should comply. Simple as that.
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Mr M
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Posted - 2006.03.02 04:15:00 -
[67]
Originally by: kieron
Modifying the game files in any manner, including changing sounds, ship images, splash screens,font, etc. is a violation of the EULA. If discovered, actions up to and including a permanent ban can be levied against the offender.
Ehm... since we're not allowed to add an alternative soundfile for the warp sound effect I guess we're not allowed to add our own music either?
EVEgeek Geekulators, Mineral Index, and more |
MissileRus
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Posted - 2006.03.02 04:24:00 -
[68]
ROFL! now i hear whiners and hack in this thread! 
a Dev could make sound files and allow us to use those
a Dev could make a volume control for the warp sounds
a Dev could allow the use of the OPs sound files
a Dev could tell us how to disable/lower the warp sound in a way that isnt against the EULA.
wheres the whine? the warp sound is 10 times louder then all the other sounds, some wants to lower it whats whine in that? and how is it hacking! ROFL!
random trekie noob: my warp sound is lower then yours
random l33t noob: OMG HAX!
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kieron
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Posted - 2006.03.02 04:44:00 -
[69]
Everyone, please don't get me wrong, I agree there are some elements of the game that could use some lovin'. Heck, I admit to thinking that the warp sounds are a bit loud myself. However, until the ability to modify game files is given to the players by the Devs, I have to fall back upon the EULA, even if I think there are some adjustments that might be made to it.
Regarding those posters that are saying they do not receive any benefit from modifying client files, I disagree. A while back, there was a client mod that allowed a player to change ship into something less CPU/GPU intensive than the current models, thus decreasing system lag, resulting in a significant PvP advantage over someone without this mod. Its use became so widespread that players were banned for using this mod and the policy CCP had towards client mods tightened up significantly.
Will things change? Possibly. CCP has taken a number of player suggestions and added them into EVE. Until then, don't modify your client. If you do, be prepared for the client to fail at the least, and with the knowledge that you do face a ban if discovered.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies!
YAY Cookies!! -Kaemonn |
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.03.02 04:52:00 -
[70]
Oh noes sound h4x!!111
Pretty said that the EULA has to be brought up over something as simple as this.
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WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran |
MrCue
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Posted - 2006.03.02 05:25:00 -
[71]
Originally by: kieron
Regarding those posters that are saying they do not receive any benefit from modifying client files, I disagree. A while back, there was a client mod that allowed a player to change ship into something less CPU/GPU intensive than the current models, thus decreasing system lag, resulting in a significant PvP advantage over someone without this mod. Its use became so widespread that players were banned for using this mod and the policy CCP had towards client mods tightened up significantly.
How about making this a option in the game so that everybody who wanted to could reduce their system lag for pvp?
Killmail Database |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.03.02 05:32:00 -
[72]
Why don't we just get rid of the 3d component of the game alltogether and just make it a big overview with a bunch of gun buttons so everyone can have no lag in PvP. Oh wait, there was this whole thing about this being a game, and not just an effort to streamline blobwars by reducing graphics as far as possible...
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Nlle Kaani
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Posted - 2006.03.02 05:47:00 -
[73]
Yes ascii graphics 4tw. Use your imagination!
No, really.
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res0nance
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Posted - 2006.03.02 08:10:00 -
[74]
Originally by: kieron
A while back, there was a client mod that allowed a player to change ship into something less CPU/GPU intensive than the current models, thus decreasing system lag, resulting in a significant PvP advantage over someone without this mod.
Everyone with a fast computer has that same advantage. If I wanted, I could change a few driver files and force my video card to stop displaying textures - completely undetectable. But why would I want to ruin my EVE experience to gain an advantage? I wouldn't - but some people would.
You can't stop anybody with a bit of know-how or determination from doing what they want - the more you stop the small, insignificant things, surely the more devious the determined ones become when it comes to game modification.
Personally I also think the warp sound is too loud, I run with my sound off whenever I'm on Teamspeak - which I hate doing cos I love hearing my pulse lasers. 
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Captain Tightpants
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Posted - 2006.03.02 08:23:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Meridius
Pretty said that the EULA has to be brought up over something as simple as this.
Yeah, nomally contracts, agreements, laws and other legal documents only apply to the Really Big Stuff. That's why thefts of under $100 are okay.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.03.02 08:45:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Hell I have never seen a game that didn't allow modding. Ever.
I believe LucasArts is the only developer besides CCP to have opposed game modifications. Nowadays, virtually every game says "You're free to mod the game, as long as the .exe files are intact.". CCP should get with the times and allow customization, or fix the easiest problem that has ever been suggested repeatedly by virtually the whole paying customer base.
Griefing is to ruin a friendly game, which Eve is not. |
Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2006.03.02 10:01:00 -
[77]
this is at least the 10th thread regarding Warp Sound that I am answering to - and I¦m not very active on the boards - but here long enough to know probably 80% of the players want it tuned down (I¦m one of them).
Further I¦m here long enough to know how much CCP care for that.
to come out now with a large bat and spread fear of banning amongst them that take action, where CCP doesn¦t seem to be able to do, somewhat amuses me.
Isn¦t eve a game that promotes players shall take care of their problems on their own ? (if noone else cares)
*chuckles*
I bet it takes less time to adjust the volume level than the 2 posts Kieron made in this thread.
Get your priorities CCP - you implement a new voice although noone I ever heard wasn¦t happy with the one we had before - still the warp sound that bugs most of us stays unchanged.
I hope that I¦ll ever be able to listen to the sound of eve without warping my 2 year old son out of bed - but that hope got smaller during the last 2 years and 10 months.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.02 20:09:00 -
[78]
There was an update to the audio library file in the patch, didn't get chance to check anything before the server went down, anyone remember any audio related tweaks in the patch?
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
Morbid AngelLust
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Posted - 2006.03.02 20:16:00 -
[79]
What a worthless post. With all the things they could upgrade you are requesting the sounds of the warp? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE....STOP POSTING!
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NAFnist
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Posted - 2006.03.02 20:27:00 -
[80]
Still cant believe this wasnt changed in beta.
Almost every other sound effects in EVE are amazing, too bad noone hears it because of this age old mistake with too loud warp effects.
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NAFnist
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Posted - 2006.03.02 20:27:00 -
[81]
Edited by: NAFnist on 02/03/2006 20:27:24
lagg ..
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.02 20:29:00 -
[82]
Morbid, you evidently haven't read the post, its a non coding issue and wouldn't take 5 mins to fix, just because there are bigger fish to fry, doesn't mean that all smaller ones should be ignored.
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
David Sinclair
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:00:00 -
[83]
Originally by: kieron
Regarding those posters that are saying they do not receive any benefit from modifying client files, I disagree. A while back, there was a client mod that allowed a player to change ship into something less CPU/GPU intensive than the current models, thus decreasing system lag, resulting in a significant PvP advantage over someone without this mod. Its use became so widespread that players were banned for using this mod and the policy CCP had towards client mods tightened up significantly.
Will things change? Possibly. CCP has taken a number of player suggestions and added them into EVE. Until then, don't modify your client. If you do, be prepared for the client to fail at the least, and with the knowledge that you do face a ban if discovered.
You know, if players are reducing model complexity to reduce lag, maybe that should tell you something?
One of the great things about mods in MMORPG's is what they tell the devs. What was the first thing modded into WoW? More action bars. It was so wildly popular that Blizzard added it to the base UI not long after. Another: Raid Health/Mana bars. Got added to the base UI a bit later. (I'm just using WoW, since it was the last MMO I played before Eve)
Mods let people try out new things for the game that you, as the developer, don't have to support! You can, however, reap the benefits. People have been begging for UI changes for quite some time now. Fonts, sounds, graphics. Stuff that won't touch the game mechanics, but will yield a much more enjoyable player experience.
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:04:00 -
[84]
Originally by: kieron
A while back, there was a client mod that allowed a player to change ship into something less CPU/GPU intensive than the current models, thus decreasing system lag, resulting in a significant PvP advantage over someone without this mod. Its use became so widespread that players were banned for using this mod and the policy CCP had towards client mods tightened up significantly.
So someone made PvP playable, and got banned for it
__________________
Retard's handbook |
Minsc
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:05:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Kray Raven
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Try speaking/listening on TS when you enter warp. Hell, try listening to it with a headset. Either the warp sound is acceptable, but everything else is so low you may aswell play with the sound off, or the music and such is acceptable but you best not try warping off anywhere.)
Yes totally incompetent on the side of the developer (i imagine there is only one guy who works on it at the weekends)
Can you do better? If not then kindly STFU m'kay. 
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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:07:00 -
[86]
What? You guys hear warp sound when you warp? I never ...
Unnerf Amarr!!
'.. in your chase after the imaginary "endgame fun"... which actually doesn't exist.' j0sephine |
Roxors
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:23:00 -
[87]
yeah.. imo the only real issues i have with eve are all UI/usability stuff.. opening up the UI for mods would be a godsend for eve.. given that its becoming the norm in the mmorpg industry its likely only a matter of time before CCP opens up on this.. adapt, evolve or die..
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:46:00 -
[88]
Kieron,
I for one was fully aware of the hack (and others) and didn't use it. Thing is, using certain drones which didn't have a model (on CCP's side) could very easily also been seen as the same thing, and if everyone who used them dosn't also get banned, it's inconsistant (and thus directly harmful to the game).
If you're taking a hard line, then you need to ban TS/Vent. You need to ban the use of special programable keyboards, and a number of other things which you've dismissed as harmless. Until then, you're drawing the line with uncertaincy and fear, which simply alienates the userbase. I, personally, see a lot of dev activity on the forums but very little evidence we're listened to even on simple issues like warp sounds, hence I don't rate Eve's dev involvement especially high.
And I'll say again, if you want to enforce a hardline policy then you need to listen to people who are complaining about significant client issues, which are NOT overly manpower intensive to fix like the warp sound and the font. Until then, I will still never use the Eve sound system and use IRC for the majority of my Eve-related chat. Fundermental game systems not being used because of this...meh. Far more important to the game than any single bug or addition in Blood (excepting the local bug fix, sure).
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Razin
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:53:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Morbid AngelLust
What a worthless post. With all the things they could upgrade you are requesting the sounds of the warp? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE....STOP POSTING!
Why are you worried about these posts? CCP has always maintained that there are specific dev teams for specific jobs: the programmers do the code, the artists do the art, the sound guys do the sounds, etc. Fixing sounds does not take away effort from the other aspects of development work.
The requests to do something about the warp sound had regularly showed up on these forums for as long as EVE existed (this doesn't mean that it's the most important fix that the players want). It has been shown just how simple of a fix it is, and so there is no excuse in not doing it.
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Xailia
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Posted - 2006.03.02 22:56:00 -
[90]
In most cases, an EULA is about as useful as putting a sign on a lookout that says: Do not look.
People will use mods when and if they have the need to, the serious ones are caught and those people are banned, the harmless ones are either not detectable or just ignored.
I do find it a bit strange that a function that is built into the client (the automatic loading of single files outside of stuffs) is officially barred from use, all while pointing at the EULA.
I should also note that the EULA has remained mostly intact througout the life of EVE, extending back all the way to when S&SI was the publisher. Which probably means S&SI wrote the thing. It has some odd things left over from that era (look at the license section, specifically). I think CCP should scrap the current EULA and write a more sensible one (for example, in the current EULA, you can't let your friend login to their account using your copy of EVE). Besides, it has been shown many times (at least in the US) that EULAs are legally useless.
Whether or not CCP actually does anything about the EULA, or the warp sound for that matter (I keep my sound off anyway), people will ignore the EULA and freely trade modding tips outside of the forum.
I have noticed that a lot of the recent Dev blogs about various exploits have mentioned that the specific exploit is a bannable offence; they didn't just point to the EULA.
My EULA:
These statements are my opinion and I don't want to be held accountable if you start breaking parts of the EULA that CCP currently uses, even though I may disagree.
You also agree to these conditions by reading the posted by date which preceeds these statements.
Also, don't complain so much, the Devs definitely have seen these posts or one of the other many threads about the warp sound. They have made us a fabulous game, and really I think at this point they really just don't want to know about people modding, as long as it is Mostly Harmless.
Now, who wants a Toblerone? I still have a box of 1kg ones in the back room... they should still be good after a year... I hope.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Krathe
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Posted - 2006.03.02 23:19:00 -
[91]
I agree with the general trend with this thread. The warp sound is simply unbearable volume wise. While you're at it, the only other sound that bugs me is the incredible noise megapulse lasers make when you're zoomed in, it's deafening. I've ripped my headphones off before when I didn't realise how loud they were going to be.
The pictures Wrangler didn't want you to see! |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.02 23:26:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Xailia
I do find it a bit strange that a function that is built into the client (the automatic loading of single files outside of stuffs) is officially barred from use, all while pointing at the EULA.
It's just a function of the loader they use. It's been an industry standard to have the loader for archives work like that ever since I was modding Duke Nukem 3D back in ye olden days.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Sicarius
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Posted - 2006.03.02 23:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Xailia
I do find it a bit strange that a function that is built into the client (the automatic loading of single files outside of stuffs) is officially barred from use, all while pointing at the EULA.
It's just a function of the loader they use. It's been an industry standard to have the loader for archives work like that ever since I was modding Duke Nukem 3D back in ye olden days.
also if you think about this from the programmers perspective.
much easier to edit the files and save them to dir, than recompile the .stuff files with the new changes whenever the programmer has changed something. its faster and more efficient than restricting the loader to the .stuff files.
and hmm.. btw I fully favor the trend in this thread, reduce the warp sound FFS, I generally LOVE the sound in eve but this **** is just ruining the general ambience of the game.
Only english in your forum signature quote please - Jacques |
Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.03.02 23:41:00 -
[94]
I agree that the warp sound is too loud, and needs to be decreased in volume.
I'll leave the EULA debate for someone else, but on the above point it would be nice to have this little issue resolved so I can play with sound again without fear of a perforated eardrum when I am using TS.
------------------
The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance. |
F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.03 00:02:00 -
[95]
I would love to have even the edited version i made, but i'm actually hoping the sound guy has an idea up his sleve and will get the go ahead to make a nice new one :)
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
Vito Parabellum
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Posted - 2006.03.03 00:44:00 -
[96]
Originally by: kieron
Regarding those posters that are saying they do not receive any benefit from modifying client files, I disagree. A while back, there was a client mod that allowed a player to change ship into something less CPU/GPU intensive than the current models, thus decreasing system lag, resulting in a significant PvP advantage over someone without this mod. Its use became so widespread that players were banned for using this mod and the policy CCP had towards client mods tightened up significantly.
Only in eve that the lag is so accepted that it's actually a requirement, and if you dont have it you are a haxxor! Why not put in a few restrictions on what gear you can run it on too? I mean, someone running eve with the latest gfx and cpu will have an unfair advantage over my crappy puter in pvp ffs!
The suckers that modify the client to do evil deeds, will do it regardless of whats in the eula. People that want lower sound, old sound, new GUI or a pink dreadnaught should be able to have that without fear of the banstick.
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2006.03.03 01:03:00 -
[97]
Originally by: kieron
Regarding those posters that are saying they do not receive any benefit from modifying client files, I disagree. A while back, there was a client mod that allowed a player to change ship into something less CPU/GPU intensive than the current models, thus decreasing system lag, resulting in a significant PvP advantage over someone without this mod. Its use became so widespread that players were banned for using this mod and the policy CCP had towards client mods tightened up significantly.
This seems like a very draconian reaction to a player made improvement to your game.
Especially if its inefficiencies within your client which is causing so much trouble that players are cleaning up those ineffiencies themselves.
The argument that this gives a player an unfair advantage is stupid because the varied computer systems (and graphic/sound drives) contributes more to any perceived advantage than simple model replacement.
CCP isnĘt about to implement any restrictions on how powerful a computer is allowed to be before they are not allowed to play Eve to ensure 1 player cant have an unfair advantage over another.
While I understand the position that Kieron is in that he has to enforce the EULA, in this one aspect I believe the EULA should be changed (thus allowing simple sound, texture and model file substitution) (note: the EULA should still cover bans if alteration to client coding is detected).
There are many graphic and audio items I find annoying within the client that I would love to have changed or have alternatives options. (low quality textures, scaling inconstancies, annoying sounds, missing model elements etc)
And since all player to player interaction is handled through the server, there shouldnĘt be anyway for any client side alteration to allow cheating.
What I would love to see on the CCP website is an area dedicated to promoting high rated (both by the player base and CCP) mod files. This sort of endorsement (or at least acknowledgement) would also help limit the proliferation of silly models or textures that modding sometimes introduces. Which is probably the only reason the EULA prohibits client changes.
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:35:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Orb Lati
The argument that this gives a player an unfair advantage is stupid because the varied computer systems (and graphic/sound drives) contributes more to any perceived advantage than simple model replacement.
No, trust me on this one, I've watched some comparative FRAPS of the difference the model replacement made, and it was HUGE.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2006.03.06 10:39:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
You need to ban the use of special programable keyboards..
The day when they ban my G15 is day when I will cancel my accounts.
I love the fact that pressing one key activates all my guns same time and chooses target.
Unnerf Amarr!!
'.. in your chase after the imaginary "endgame fun"... which actually doesn't exist.' j0sephine |
Meridius
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Posted - 2006.03.06 10:55:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Captain Tightpants
Originally by: Meridius
Pretty said that the EULA has to be brought up over something as simple as this.
Yeah, nomally contracts, agreements, laws and other legal documents only apply to the Really Big Stuff. That's why thefts of under $100 are okay.
Huh?
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:09:00 -
[101]
I'll take a look at the warp sounds today.
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Izo Azlion
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:15:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Izo Azlion on 06/03/2006 11:15:58
I think we should be allowed to edit what little bits we like. (Warp sounds, that annoying sound when we cloak to jump, and uncloak, the fonts... whatever)
It would take hundreds of us to get this annoying bloody "cloaking sound" out of the game now, after not being asked or told that it was going in.
This sound lets people on gates hear when someones coming through. like the gate itself already did, but it also gives them the ability to hear when, and where abouts, they uncloak, this makes it possible for them to do something else, and then, if quick enough, attend to EVE.
Thats a whole different kettle of fish anyway. The warp sounds totally over ride every other sound, other than 5 heavy missiles plunging through armour, or other impacts bigger than this. IMO EULA policy, though I follow it (Banned from eve? thats like losing life!XD!) I dont agree with this portion of it.
End :)
Edit: Oh sorry Redundancy, didnt see that post. Appriciate it ^.^
Fly safe |
aeti
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:18:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Redundancy
I'll take a look at the warp sounds today.
<3
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:18:00 -
[104]
I have heard over local a long time ago that there is a mod out there that displays sec status and corp of people in local over their name. I dont know if this is genuine or some guy pulling our leg, but a small mod like that could create a massive benifit for the user.
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Gah'khaz
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Posted - 2006.03.06 11:33:00 -
[105]
strange that players have to illegaly modify their clients to give us something which should have a been a feature in the first place i say. just my 0.02 isk
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.03.06 12:07:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 06/03/2006 12:13:21
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 06/03/2006 12:08:01
I also think that modifications to the sound are harmless, since noone gains an advantage over an other player with it.
But I think, CCP should have a list of important files that are NOT to be touched or replaced this way, because modding them gives you an unfair advantage.
There should be a detection, maybe the possibility to upload a file that the client uses back to CCP for proof and analysis and temp bans or even perma bans for modifyfng these files.
Sorry, imho if you modify a python script for your advantage it should result in a perma and if people extremly simplify 3-d models or textures to dramatically decrease loading times or increase FPS, then they force others to do the same and play an ugly looking game, because otherwise they can't compete. I don't want that and that's cheating.
*edit* The name of the game is not: 'EVE - Who mods the hell out of wins !'
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'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.03.06 12:34:00 -
[107]
so why doesnt ccp release an option to replace models with a square or something? that feature is needed to play the client lag free in large battles, isnt that stupid Kieron?
it is stupid that to play and enjoy this game at all levels you have to modify your client else you cant enjoy ****.
and as stated before, the "warp sound mod" is not really modifying any files at all..
"We brake for nobody"
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.06 13:48:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
I have heard over local a long time ago that there is a mod out there that displays sec status and corp of people in local over their name. I dont know if this is genuine or some guy pulling our leg, but a small mod like that could create a massive benifit for the user.
There are several "screenshots" going round which show that, but they're actually mockups a friend of mine made about 4 months ago for the system he'd LIKE. Not something which was actually done. They're good because he's a pro artist.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.06 13:52:00 -
[109]
Many thanks Redundancy :)
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
Remedial
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Posted - 2006.03.06 13:57:00 -
[110]
If the devs start persuing and banning pilots for purely cosmetic modifications, then they aren't the devs most Eve pilots believe they are. I would consider them above enforcing the EULA on people changing out sound or graphic files to achieve a different look.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.06 15:54:00 -
[111]
See the dev post a little higher, at the very least, hopefully we can get a new warp sound :)
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Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
BlueSmok
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:31:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Redundancy
I'll take a look at the warp sounds today.
Yay *does a little dance*
If you're not flying with Hippies, you're not having FUN. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:39:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Redundancy
I'll take a look at the warp sounds today.
Result :D.
A volume slider for them would be nice.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:49:00 -
[114]
Noo, if he's the sound guy, which i guess he is, then he won't settle for something so simple as a volume slider, well, i hope not, so we should at the very least be looking at a tweaked sound similar to the one i made :)
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:53:00 -
[115]
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
Noo, if he's the sound guy, which i guess he is, then he won't settle for something so simple as a volume slider, well, i hope not, so we should at the very least be looking at a tweaked sound similar to the one i made :)
I guess you're right. Fingers crossed that the new sound is nice and sounds less like I'm an aeroplane flying through a sandstorm.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Razin
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Posted - 2006.03.06 19:10:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
Noo, if he's the sound guy, which i guess he is, then he won't settle for something so simple as a volume slider, well, i hope not, so we should at the very least be looking at a tweaked sound similar to the one i made :)
I guess you're right. Fingers crossed that the new sound is nice and sounds less like I'm an aeroplane flying through a sandstorm.
I once watched an old TV episode of Flash Gordon (looked like it was made back in the 30Ęs or 40Ęs). The rocket motor sounds that they used in that show were recorded from a prop driven aircraft.
We really need to move away from such things.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.06 19:20:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Kieron,
I for one was fully aware of the hack (and others) and didn't use it. Thing is, using certain drones which didn't have a model (on CCP's side) could very easily also been seen as the same thing, and if everyone who used them dosn't also get banned, it's inconsistant (and thus directly harmful to the game).
If you're taking a hard line, then you need to ban TS/Vent. You need to ban the use of special programable keyboards, and a number of other things which you've dismissed as harmless. Until then, you're drawing the line with uncertaincy and fear, which simply alienates the userbase. I, personally, see a lot of dev activity on the forums but very little evidence we're listened to even on simple issues like warp sounds, hence I don't rate Eve's dev involvement especially high.
And I'll say again, if you want to enforce a hardline policy then you need to listen to people who are complaining about significant client issues, which are NOT overly manpower intensive to fix like the warp sound and the font. Until then, I will still never use the Eve sound system and use IRC for the majority of my Eve-related chat. Fundermental game systems not being used because of this...meh. Far more important to the game than any single bug or addition in Blood (excepting the local bug fix, sure).
You of all people should be familiar with the idea that sometimes it's better to have a hard-and-fast policy that's rigidly applicable than to try and deal with issues fairly on a case-by-case basis...
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.06 20:56:00 -
[118]
There's a difference between having a consistant moderation policy and dev issues like addressing widely decried things like the Eve font.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.06 21:19:00 -
[119]
Changing ship models to, say, large white boxes with their ship type written on them in big red letters would seem to give you something of an advantage. Doubly so when you change the weapon models to similar boxes stating their type.
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Br0wn 0ps
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Posted - 2006.03.06 21:26:00 -
[120]
Originally by: kieron
A while back, there was a client mod that allowed a player to change ship into something less CPU/GPU intensive than the current models, thus decreasing system lag, resulting in a significant PvP advantage over someone without this mod. Its use became so widespread that players were banned for using this mod and the policy CCP had towards client mods tightened up significantly.
Will things change? Possibly. CCP has taken a number of player suggestions and added them into EVE. Until then, don't modify your client. If you do, be prepared for the client to fail at the least, and with the knowledge that you do face a ban if discovered.
How about starting by allowing us to disable ship/drone rendering for fleet fights, by letting us see only ship/drone symbols? To be more programatically correct, how about setting a minimum frame rate at which that occurs automatically? The client already knows the number of frames per second it is getting. Use that knowledge to programmatically disable ship/drone rendering, regardless of setting.
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Br0wn 0ps
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Posted - 2006.03.06 21:35:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Changing ship models to, say, large white boxes with their ship type written on them in big red letters would seem to give you something of an advantage. Doubly so when you change the weapon models to similar boxes stating their type.
Big enough to let you read it would need to be quite big...you gotta remember that for there to be any tactical advantage, you have to quickly be able to assess that information. Personally, I'd rather see ship symbols only during a fight. Most of the time during fleet battles, you already know who your priority targets are, in what order, and what they are flying (which 99.9% of the time determines in what order they are), so I only have distance and name on my overview (sorted by name) before I lock and fire anyway.
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David Sinclair
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Posted - 2006.03.06 21:46:00 -
[122]
Given that, in fleet battles, you're generally zoomed out pretty far anyway, symbols would, indeed, make the most sense. No need to render perfectly those BS's that are over 100 klicks away. It's not something I would want all the time, as ships are pretty cool, but the ability to turn them into symbols to reduce lag would be a very nice feature...
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Ch'tok
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Posted - 2006.03.06 21:54:00 -
[123]
Who thought adding a high pitched whine and the sound of frying bacon to the warp sound was a good idea?
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.07 00:13:00 -
[124]
You need better speakers me laddo ;)
But seriously, its not the volume that is an issue, well, yeah it is, but only around 15%, the main issue is the harshness of the sound, hopefully thats all getting sorted and will make it into the upcoming client side patch this week
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
Matthew
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Posted - 2006.03.07 00:23:00 -
[125]
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
But seriously, its not the volume that is an issue, well, yeah it is, but only around 15%, the main issue is the harshness of the sound, hopefully thats all getting sorted and will make it into the upcoming client side patch this week
I would think the real problem with the sound, and the reason it sounds so loud, is because it has lots of power across a very wide spectrum (In english: It's loud at lots of different pitches all at once, which makes it sound even more loud than normal). It's probably also this that makes it sound "harsh" to some people - it's very easy for it to turn from a detailed, multilayered sound into one that is simply a wall of noise, especially given that the low-grade speakers shipped with most PC's simply can't reproduce the full range of the sound, so you lose the high end and the bottom end goes all muddy. It sounds absolutely amazing on an X-Fi and 7.1 Gigaworks speakers, but it is still too loud - I only tried it once, and that nearly shook my mouse off the table.
What I'd probably do is apply a shaped volume envelope on it, to reduce the volume in the very broadband section (when you're going into warp and coming out of it), but keep the volume higher during the cleaner "swooshing" of the stable warp tunnel - if you quieten that bit down too much, you simply won't hear it.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Helen Baque
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Posted - 2006.03.07 03:42:00 -
[126]
Originally by: kieron
... seemingly hamless changes...
Princess BeefCurtains jokes are left to the reader as an exercise.
--
Helen Baque
Baque Industries |
F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.07 09:32:00 -
[127]
Thanks Matthew, i was fairly convinved people weren't ready for that description. However, you can't do what you propose, the only part of the sound that was being referred to was the warp entry and exit sounds, the airstream sound (which is separate btw) doesn't need to be touched as its not causing any issues.
Whilst i agree with the 'loudness' (not volume) of the warp in and out sounds, you cannot just lower the volume, it sounds silly. Unfortuately when you do have a sound that is over loud (not high volume) then you can't just lower the volume and not have it sound out of place as it does already in its current state, you must use some filters if its just going to be an edit of the existing sound.
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX |
Gah'khaz
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:06:00 -
[128]
in about every other game i've tried you can set the gfx detail either higher or lower depending on your hardware. Why do we need stations with flames poking up the top of them and lights and stuff? and what's with the rotation stations? why can't i replace the station with a static image which looks exactly the same without the rendered crap (flames and roatating segments and lights swirling around). If everyone has the ability to turn down the gfx detail it wouldn't be an advantage, but a feature. Of course, it's nifty to look at, and it's cool to impress your friends with the tasty gfx, but why set the standards to accomodate those with the best machines? Mr not-so-rich who works at the factory and can't afford the latest 3d card or 2 mb ram will be in a pinch, with no real option to turn it down, while those with the latest supercluster below the hood of their machines can just laugh and fly smoothly.
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