What if we dropped all the BPC's that can be found in anoms and only allowed the pirate BSes to be gained from LP stores?

Imagine, the ONLY way to get a bhaalgorn or machariel would be if someone missioned for it...

It would actually give reason for the NPC-null regions to be raided by carebears that want the best paying missions in the game.

Man, I love it when people come to the forums and start spewing numbers out their behinds. I do SOE missions, and I have never made anywhere near 180 million an hour, even dividing the time up and so on after getting enough LP for a SOE ship. Even with my main mission guy @ level 5 on the social skills. I even use multiple characters in Dominix to do missions at times. I must be doing it wrong or something.

OP probably didn't take account the 50% LP and isk cost of the High Sec SOE ships when making up those numbers.

I think the OP did some maths whereby the amount of time needed to run enough SOE missions to get enough LP to get one of the SoE ships - then sell it - was calculated to come to this 180 Million ISK/hr.

Even if this math could be verified (peer review anybody?) this would be based solely on the market value of an SoE ship, and that can be VERY risky. Someone running SoE missions out the wazoo today with visions of piles if ISK in their eyes may be in for a rude surprise when the market turns or becomes saturated by thousands of other players doing the exact same thing.

all CCP need to do is sprinkle a few more sisters agents in null so that players can get the rewards without having to go to high sec, from what I understand the Sisters LP is penalised when awarded by a HS agent, so null should be even more profitable. Plus more outlets will naturally see costs and reward values drop. The high price of sisters ships is only because they are new, give it a few months and the market will correct the prices as per the demand of the player base.

Man, I love it when people come to the forums and start spewing numbers out their behinds. I do SOE missions, and I have never made anywhere near 180 million an hour, even dividing the time up and so on after getting enough LP for a SOE ship. Even with my main mission guy @ level 5 on the social skills. I even use multiple characters in Dominix to do missions at times. I must be doing it wrong or something.

OP probably didn't take account the 50% LP and isk cost of the High Sec SOE ships when making up those numbers.

Man, I love it when people come to the forums and start spewing numbers out their behinds. I do SOE missions, and I have never made anywhere near 180 million an hour, even dividing the time up and so on after getting enough LP for a SOE ship. Even with my main mission guy @ level 5 on the social skills. I even use multiple characters in Dominix to do missions at times. I must be doing it wrong or something.

OP probably didn't take account the 50% LP and isk cost of the High Sec SOE ships when making up those numbers.

It will nerf itself over time as more people realize the profitability and take advantage of it.

See: supply and demand, basic economics.

Various quotes, la la la.

if your point is 180m/hr as an income, I have some news for you
LP is ISK transferal, not injection
LP when converted into faction items function as an ISK sink

(3 x dread pilot scarlet in a row; 1100 dps looting + salvaging while flying the mission; killing Scaarlet in 3rd pocket for implant and therefore blitzing the mission)

3 x 17,5 mil bounty
26 mil loot + salvage + implants
24k lp a 3100 isk

180m isk per hour, and in high-sec?

Checked the lp ratio of Stratios, which has been stabled at 3100:1, three times higher than major faction navy.

According to the effectiveness people doing lv4 mission , we can estimate that in a Machariel it's possible to earn ~180m isk per hour (50% from LP) on average, which is even higher than most people killing anomalies in nullsec.
(Calculated using LP payout at Lanngisi 0.5 and Apanake 0.5 and 3100:1 lp ratio for Stratios BPC)

With the future of Nestor, the lp ratio for SOE may even increase or at least stable at current state

In a high-end mission ship(like Machariel, rattlesnake or marauder) with cheap factional/T2 mods(so you're never profitable to gank)



0.0/Low Alternative?

Even though ccp claimed that they want to make null/low sec competitive, there is only agent of The Sanctuary in X-70 that can be easily harassed, and practically it does not bring any alternative or competition to the high sec 0.5 hubs.


Apparently it is not well balanced. With the infinite potential to hold people in a single solar system, there are little reasons to compete with other missioners. Some people mentioned war or suicide gank, but they are rather ineffective and only harassed a few people that are extreme minority comparing to the whole population who's doing SOE lv4s.
And if people can play with some care, using insta undock bookmark and alt scout, the risk of ganking is then handed over to real newbies.



A problem?

The real problem is EVE's mission system. Missions from an agent is infinite and a high-sec system can theoretically live an infinite population.

Low-sec and null has its nature disadvantage that when a local has more than certain amount of people (say 30), there will be problem to see coming hostile, not to mention gate camps.

Is this a problem or we can just wait the "free market" to fix it by bring 1000 people to Lanngisi and Apanake local?

Just feel interesting that so many nerds don't know how to push their income higher:

Recon 1 part of 3: done with vigil in 4 minutes, 4m+25m from lp, reject 2 part of 3
Pirate invasion, kill all key rats and then clear battleships, 15 minutes, 4M+8m bounty+23m from lp
Armarr tower shooting mission, done in a tengu, kite the tower in 8 minutes, 4m+20m lp

I'm not writing a mission guide, just some examples.

180m/hour is a quite conservative count, at peak I have made 210m in a hour

The core problem is that many people assume their awkward mission tactic universal. (not rejecting **** missions, killing unnecessary frigates, salvaging frigates, salvaging mission with few battleship rats)

Why reject 2 of 3? Warp in with battleship.. MJD to the gate.. complete in 1 minute. same with the part 3 of 3. Save the reject for a way worse mission

Once the market stabilizes it won't be so lucrative.

Those ISK/H calculations aren't even CLOSE to accurate. It pretty much invalidates your whole topic.

MAYBE in a very rare situation where the missions align perfectly, you will get a nice payout. What you're also not listing is the fact that multiple characters are used. 180 mill an hour is a bit of a poor pay-out running missions with multiple chars. You could get 300 an hour running incursions with 2 chars.

I've always said it and I'll say it again. You need to look at isk per hour PER CHARACTER.

Those ISK/H calculations aren't even CLOSE to accurate. It pretty much invalidates your whole topic.

MAYBE in a very rare situation where the missions align perfectly, you will get a nice payout. What you're also not listing is the fact that multiple characters are used. 180 mill an hour is a bit of a poor pay-out running missions with multiple chars. You could get 300 an hour running incursions with 2 chars.

I've always said it and I'll say it again. You need to look at isk per hour PER CHARACTER.

I can confirm that you can get a 3100:1 lp or better with SoE.
Yet, I can also confirm that other high sec NPC corporation can offer the same ratio (or way better) for LPs for selected items.

These are nuggets, people like to find nuggets.
When the gold rush is in full speed, the profit will be washed away.

I don't see a problem there.





The only thing that made me wonder is the serious difference in production costs between a fully built ship and a blueprint from the LP store.

We should NERF everything that is either:

A: Enjoyable
B: Profitable
C: Lacking Tears

That will create just the kind of game everyone wants to play.

The only thing that made me wonder is the serious difference in production costs between a fully built ship and a blueprint from the LP store.

It costs less than 10 mil in minerals to build a Stratios so the blueprint is much more lucrative.

SOE have several stations in pure blind, IMO just give them more level 4 agents.

As for the hisec agents currently having great isk/lp, that isn't really a big deal. All the mechanisms are in place for this to resolve itself naturally.

lolz

" We love EVE it is this awesome sandbox where everything is based on player content and a player market ...

... ooh WAIT the player market is paying so much for SOE ships those highsec carebears are making too much money ...

... stuff the sandbox and player market CCP nerf those ships now or move those juicy missions to lowsec "


nullbears are funny :D

I have heard rumours that there are certain other high sec corps which give an even better conversion rate :)

shush you!

What? A place where people make lots of money and I dont?

NERF PLS, OBVIOUSLY ITS AN EXPLOIT

Waaaaaaaah! Hi-sec! Nerf it!

Just feel interesting that so many nerds don't know how to push their income higher:

Recon 1 part of 3: done with vigil in 4 minutes, 4m+25m from lp, reject 2 part of 3
Pirate invasion, kill all key rats and then clear battleships, 15 minutes, 4M+8m bounty+23m from lp
Armarr tower shooting mission, done in a tengu, kite the tower in 8 minutes, 4m+20m lp

I'm not writing a mission guide, just some examples.

180m/hour is a quite conservative count, at peak I have made 210m in a hour

The core problem is that many people assume their awkward mission tactic universal. (not rejecting **** missions, killing unnecessary frigates, salvaging frigates, salvaging mission with few battleship rats)

Does anybody have fun playing this game...

I like killing EVERY RAT and looting every ship, then salvage the hulls.......

LoL so this is one of the another threads "BAAAW someone is making more than I= nerf it"

So why dont you take your PvE ship and do it to? The more people will do that, the less they make from BPC.

We already do.

Simple fact is that its just not worth doing PVE in null for most of us due to the fact that high sec offers the same isk or more for much much less risk and effort.

We already do.

Simple fact is that its just not worth doing PVE in null for most of us due to the fact that high sec offers the same isk or more for much much less risk and effort.

Hmm. Then maybe i should stop doing Sansha missions with my alt in Stain where i earn much more than navy L4s in hisec..

more effort? Yes..., More risk? yes..., Better rewards? Yes.... i dont see your problem dude. Earning in null is not just about mechanics, its also about your skills and know-hows. ISKies are already there, you just dont know how to milk them. I understand that your coalition dont have nullsec L4s like Stain, but you have moons, you have rental programs, you have upgraded systems etc... But regions should be different with different isk opportunities. And it amazes me that you, as a member of CFC, is calling for isk earning balance in all regions when you were first to be outraged from moon balance in oddysey (as you lost monopole on certain moon goo-s)

We were pushing for the tech nerf for years.

The problem is that there are only a handfull of lvl 4 missions in all of null space and none of them in sov space. The vast bulk of null only have anoms and of them only a handfull of systems are good even after upgrading. The income from even the best of these anom systems provide isk that is on par with high sec level 4s or in the case of incurstions, less.

The problem is that for the past decade null has seen nerf after nerf to its pve income, often with good reason but high sec missions have never been nerfed to keep the balance, they have infact been buffed. Your little honeypot is not the norm for null space.

Again.. sov nullsec is about alliance, about atn-like colonies that earns together (moons, rental program, coalition market, etc). While npc null is great opportunities for solo/small corps. Yes PvE in sov null sucks (or its in par with hisec L4 with greater risk) im with you with that. But you, as sov null holder/member, you have to look for another type of isk income.

You cannot have all types of isk income.

Again.. sov nullsec is about alliance, about atn-like colonies that earns together (moons, rental program, coalition market, etc). While npc null is great opportunities for solo/small corps. Yes PvE in sov null sucks (or its in par with hisec L4 with greater risk) im with you with that. But you, as sov null holder/member, you have to look for another type of isk income.

You just cannot have all types of isk income in sov null (or any type of null/empire).

So we find ourselves making a great chunk of our alliances isk and most of our members find themselves making their own isk outside of our empire...

It begs the question what is the point in owning space if its near useless? Why would a newer allaince want to invade us and build up a systems infrastructure if they can earn the same or more in empire for zero cost and effort?

Its just question for yourself if you want make just isks or if you want to have just fun..

I come from a time when null did provide more reward.

This isn't about why we are in null its about why would new people want to be in null and fight very expensive wars to take space and spend hundreds of billions in upgrading it for no more reward than you find in high sec where you get more for free. Nullsec has been stagnating for years with very few new groups on the block mostly because there is nothing to be gained from taking and holding the vast bulk of sov out there. The systems simply cannot support alliances and literally require small alliances to set up alts in high sec to fund themselves.

This is one of the big reasons why we see no small alliances out here holding just one system without being part of a much bigger group such as the CFC or N3. Risk/reward is massively broken and has been for years.

But i will never support idea that sov-null should have equal or better solo pve isk opportunities as rest of new eden. sov null should be about community earnings and yes it should yield more than making isks with alts in empire..

So you think that the best place for rewarding solo pve players (which is most of the people playing eve) is in high sec, which just happens to also be the safest?

Did you read whole my post or are you just cherry picking some of my sentences? I was talking about sov null and non sov null.... that means that best SOLO isk opportunities would be in non-sov systems... (NPC null and lowsec empire included, not just hisec for fck sake ). BUT best community isk opportunities would be just in sov null and it should yeld much much more than soloing. Thats why i mentioned incursions like mechanics... that means:... you need players, you cannot do it solo, it would yeld much more than soloing anything and you would need an sov to do it (maybe some sort of group mining. Every region would have different value ore/gas/or something so fighting for regions would make sense).. Do you now understand?

There are several issues with your idea.

First, most people solo pve content, they should not be forced into high sec in order to get the best out of it

Equally high sec should not be offering the same or better rewards as null sec, 0.0 needs to be rewarding people for taking the added risk.

Second, very few people in null have access to level 4 mission areas, forcing them to go to these areas would simply turn them into warzones and make running missions a near impossiblility.

This would also do nothing to fix the near uselessness of the vast bulk of nullsec and prople being forced to earn their isk outside of their own empire.

Third, CCP have stated that null will not be seeing greater rewards as it would harm the games economy. This is why we are not asking for more isk but for nerfs as it is the only option we have.

So you think that the best place for rewarding solo pve players (which is most of the people playing eve) is in high sec, which just happens to also be the safest?

So you think 0.0 should give alliances enough ISK to fund things like Burn Jita, personal Titans, capital ships, SRPs, PLEX-funded spy accounts, vacation homes for its leaders AND have the best solo PVE payout?

ISK for grunts in 0.0 is only an issue because alliance leaders chose to make it an issue.

Well maybe then CCP is wrong on this

No they are not.

Runaway inflation is very bad and is why incursions were nerfed. CCP cannot give away more reward in null, the only way of dealing with this imbalance is to nerf high sec income to the same degree that null has been nerfed over the years.

Equally solo pve pilots should not be punished in null sov, everyone should have a reason to live out in null sec and have access to greater rewards for taking greater risks.

have you tried doing incursions in null sec?
just curious.

Despite spending hundreds of billions in upgrading systems for our rank and file pilots to run anoms in they still earn around the same as high sec level 4s but face much greater risks and downtimes.

Its not alliance leaders causing this its the game itself.

Not a viable solution since an incursion only stays for about a week before it completes and goes off to some distant area of space which is probably not yours.
I have done one though, but that's because we wanted to push it out of our space so that we could actually use our jump bridges, not because we wanted to make a ton of isk on it.

so basically, movement of incursions aside, they're still a **** source of isk in null because of the inherent drawbacks that come with them via system affects?

- Incursions are 150-200m/h including LP but it's hard to get always in fleet and you need to have pimped ship and skills, there are almost no breaks if You'r in fleet

have you tried doing incursions in null sec?
just curious.

The system effects aren't why null incursions are terrible source of isk (their movement is the primary reason), but they certainly make incursions irritating when they land in your space.

Only when they came out. They are magnets for small gangs so nobody bothers anymore.

So would you rather have more null sec incursions for the isk making potential, or less of them due to the irritating system effects?

Less. I ******* hate the damn things.

Is this a stealth 'nerf afk cloaking' post?

Apart from the delicious irony, your post is however missing an argument as to why those rank and file pilots should earn more.

They did PvP in 0.0 so their alliance could rake in ISK, the fact that that ISK is distributed in a way, that they feel the need to do PvE for ISK is not the games fault.

But be sure to tell all those renters about the huge risks and downtime they pay for in 0.0. I'm sure they'd love to skip the rental bill and go back to hi-sec, if only they knew about those facts.

I wouldn't have thought that small gangs would be much of an issue for a HQ fleet to deal with.

No they are not.

Runaway inflation is very bad and is why incursions were nerfed. CCP cannot give away more reward in null, the only way of dealing with this imbalance is to nerf high sec income to the same degree that null has been nerfed over the years. .

Equally solo pve pilots should not be punished in null sov, everyone should have a reason to live out in null sec and have access to greater rewards for taking greater risks.

Most small to mid gangs will rip them apart.

They might be the most advanced pve small gang setups but they are still pve setups.

Oh yes they (CCP) are ..

Dude you can nerf hisec as much as you can, take inursions an L4s completely from hisec... i dont care.. i have my own isk opportunities in null, low and in Jita.. But it does not solve the problem that sovnull suck big time. it wont solve the problem that many pilots wont join nullsec ali while they could earn same isk without alliance bullsh.

Yes they should. They would live in sov null with great community rewards, i dont se a point why should they have also better solo pve opportunities. Thats just greedy

a HQ fleet will have 40 pilots, and a portion of those will be logi ships. Perhaps I underestimate what "small gang" is, 40 never felt like "small gang" stuff to me. *shrug*

There are some very good bomber fleets out there hotdropping stuff and even the giggle frig fleets are hitting 80+.

y'ain't hot dropping **** in incursion systems. they're cyno jammed. Or, so i thought.

well then, i guess when fleets of frigs are hitting 80+ people i guess you really are ****** if some one picks a fight with you... but that's the risk you pay for the highest isk/hour pve activity...

With the new warp times you dont need to cyno into the system to catch them anymore

You've still got acceleration gates to contend with, though. some sites have 3 of them to go through before you get to the fleet!

We also have intel systems in place giving live updates on where and what ships they are in.

Yet people still die

You can lead a horse to water...

Second, very few people in null have access to level 4 mission areas, forcing them to go to these areas would simply turn them into warzones and make running missions a near impossiblility. This would also do nothing to fix the near uselessness of the vast bulk of nullsec and prople being forced to earn their isk outside of their own empire.

Maybe it's just that your empire is overgrowded. In my mind it makes perfectly sense that when some entity have too many members there may not be enough income sources for everybody.

But I admit that I lack knowledge of this game (and it's players) so I don't know if that would be good or bad for the game.

I would like to think that situation like that would stir things up, but probably it would not.

Nerfing high sec income is not an attempt to force the people who have no interest in null into going there its so that the people who do want to live in null have a good reason to do so.

Every player should be welcomed into null and rewarded for taking on the extra risk.

I find it rather disgusting that you think a group of players (in this case the vast bulk of people) should be relegated to just one area of space and have nowhere else to go to find better reward for greater risks, especially in the empire that they are helping to build.

We saw the price of everything double in the span of less than a year until CCP nerfed the flow of isk into the game. CCP are right in not flooding more isk into the system.

Well, its sad then, if your only good reason to live in null is to have hisec-equal solo pve isk income.

that's the job of coalition leaders and their generals..

You see? you realy dont read my posts and proposals i have written in previous posts. my proposal is about good rewards in various regions (reason to fight for), but you would need to do it as a group of players (not entire coalition and vast bulk of people, just group of players), not as solo pilots..

[quote=TharOkha]
Why do you think that my proposal of buffing sovnull would be just isk injections?. Im all for that that missions, pve, incursions should be rewarded only by LPs or some special loot, like lowsec clone soldiers tags. So it would has autoregulation (more ppl will do that, less income for them etc). Again, read my posts from earlier.

HS income is good in terms of balance

- Incursions are 150-200m/h including LP but it's hard to get always in fleet and you need to have pimped ship and skills, there are almost no breaks if You'r in fleet
- lvl4s are max 120m/h solo (don't listen silly OP and others saying "im getting 180-200m/h) but it's almost impossible to earn so much hour by hour every day, many players don't do them for pure isk/h, many have low skills etc., so most of players doing them earn 60-100m/h and it's nothing but pure boring grinding same and same missions that's important too

Well, its sad then, if your only good reason to live in null is to have hisec-equal solo pve isk income.

180m isk per hour, and in high-sec?

Checked the lp ratio of Stratios, which has been stabled at 3100:1, three times higher than major faction navy.

Stratios is only worth 615 ISK:LP. The virtue implants are much more valuable, but still nowhere near 180m isk per hour.

Bye.

Try the Stratios blueprint and then building the ship.

That's exactly what I'm doing. Double checked my numbers and the math; my point stands.

I have no idea where you got 600 ISK/ LP from.

This is a short term phenomenon, until the Stratos demand falls as it will in time.

It's new, it's shiny, and there's a bunch of rich people that HAVE TO HAVE IT RIGHT NOW OMG!!!

One thing that does help address the risk/reward is going into Apanake or Osmon, and linking kills of mission bears over and over in local. This intimidates many of the carebears into flying less blinged fits, therefore reducing their rate of LP gain. I highly recommend it, especially if you have a couple of 2b+ mission bear kills to link.

If you can inflict additional losses, even better.

We should NERF everything that is either:

A: Enjoyable
B: Profitable
C: Lacking Tears

That will create just the kind of game everyone wants to play.

Sadly, you're not far from the truth.

THE DOWNSIDE -->
Sisters systems are heavily ganked,
SOE faction standing and hence storylines are not really that useful nor is SOE corp standing.
The current LP/ISK ratio is player market driven and could crash.

CONCLUSION
Is it worthwhile doing sisters missions ? Hek yes .. (pun intended) .

Are they ridiculously high paying compared to normal missions bearing in mind gank risk and uselessness of the standing gain? Probably not.

If it's so good then why aren't you running SOE? It's your choice.

I started to do L4 missions recently and I think I am the one, who will prevent this nerf from happen. Cause I am doing 18 millions an hour, not 180. I am low in skills and every L4 mission is new for me. So I am learning slowly and if CCP is looking at average time / isk ratio before they nerf any activity, then ppl like me will surely help L4 high sec SOE missions stay as they are now ;))))

Nice to see CCP eventually start to nerf it

You must be seriously desperate for validation to pull this thread out of the graveyard.

Mr Epeen