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Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
66
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Posted - 2014.01.14 19:33:00 -
[151] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Dr Sraggles wrote:
I lived for the better part of 35 years in the San Francisco Bay Area and within commuting distance to Silicon Valley and got my undergraduate degree with some of the most brilliant programmers in the world in the same lab. People you might meet at the local rock climbing gym were the likes of Steve Wosniak and gee, you might even coach his son on the climbing team. So you get to know the Woz a tiny bit and you get some insight as to how real innovators think and one thing they don't do is try and limit debate.
sucks hairy ram genitalia
That is some argument you got there.
The other thing I have found is that the player base tends to be far more in agreement than they are willing to post given the routine bullying and threats of war -decs they get from those with a vested interest in the topic. Once the inevitable flaming starts most shy away.
ps. The funny thing is if you ever lived in Santa Cruz, California, and said that you had met and talked to Woz, studied with Jim Kent or waited Phillipe Kahn's table (picture game of thrones feast) the most common response from locals you would get is "duh, everyone knows Woz...etc" lol. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
647
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 19:34:00 -
[152] - Quote
Dr Sraggles wrote:I remain unimpressed with your claims of CCP omniscience as to the best way forward for their game and their own threads and forums asking for input/ideas are testimony to this.
Don't try and limit debate.
I'm not trying to say that CCP shouldn't or don't take good ideas from the player base. In fact they do. They just don't take terribly bad ideas. Yours is a terribly bad idea. Thus it won't get added to the game. |
oohthey ioh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 19:39:00 -
[153] - Quote
Dr Sraggles wrote:Mag's wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Dr Sraggles wrote:Mag's wrote:It's not the end of the world if you have to train for it, like everyone else then. Your idea is nothing new and doesn't solve any problems. (No, you wanting SP NOW isn't a problem) The problem it solves is allowing new players to accelerate their training. Which it does not do, it allows older, richer players to accelerate their own training far, far more. Classic Malcanis law. This. Plus OP you still do not mention a problem, only a reason you think we need it. Which isn't a reason for change and only creates a problem. The problem is the truly fundamental problem of eve. A new player is a nearly worthless toon for many, many months. The idea is to help people leap frog over the worthless period and get to the fun period sooner.
it's funny how you think new toons are weak... they are more powerful because people like you think they are weak... the truth is it what you do with the skill points, I know someone who kill faction frigs with in 3 mouths old toon. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16466
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 19:43:00 -
[154] - Quote
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Cool Story Bro.
This thread has been about a discussion as to the merits and demerits of this idea with current players. Points like "CCP hasn't done it yet which means they never will and know better" are really just not useful.
I lived for the better part of 35 years in the San Francisco Bay Area and within commuting distance to Silicon Valley and got my undergraduate degree with some of the most brilliant programmers in the world in the same lab. People you might meet at the local rock climbing gym were the likes of Steve Wosniak and gee, you might even coach his son on the climbing team. So you get to know the Woz a tiny bit and you get some insight as to how real innovators think and one thing they don't do is try and limit debate.
I remain unimpressed with your claims of CCP omniscience as to the best way forward for their game and their own threads and forums asking for input/ideas are testimony to this.
Don't try and limit debate.
All that, and you don't know the difference between goals reached through normal game play in groups and Pay to Win?
Your idea is to bypass normal game play and gives instant SP, but as yet you've failed to demonstrate way this is needed. You have also failed to address the following concerns.
It breaks character trading. It removes the consequence of planning and long term training. It favours those with wealth, over those without.
I could go on, but I have a feeling you still won't get it.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
647
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 19:43:00 -
[155] - Quote
Dr Sraggles wrote:The other thing I have found is that the player base tends to be far more in agreement than they are willing to post given the routine bullying and threats of war -decs they get from those with a vested interest in the topic. Once the inevitable flaming starts most shy away. Yeah, right. Keep telling yourself that if it helps you to sleep at night. It's rubbish though. There are very few threats of war decs really and most of those never actually end up as a war dec. It's not really something to whine about.
Dr Sraggles wrote:ps. The funny thing is if you ever lived in Santa Cruz, California, and said that you had met and talked to Woz, Jim Kent or Phillipe Kahn the most common response from locals you would get is "duh, everyone knows Woz...etc" lol. So f*&^ing what? What has your potentially invented story of yourself got to do with your OP? |
Halaxi
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
55
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 19:45:00 -
[156] - Quote
Okay, let's try this.
You want to get skillpoints for PLEX, because the idea of spending time to get the skills is something you don't agree with. So, essentially, you disagree with the time-investment aspect of EvE. Okay.
Imagine it gets put in. A precedent has now been set. A way of not just mitigating, but ignoring the time investment has come into being. The player base demands more. After all, it has been introduced once, it can be expanded.
So, what else would you like to remove the time investment from?
Let's see. Moon mining and reactions, yes they take a pesky amount of time, let's have PLEX for reactions! Titans! Those cheeky little buggers, taking so long to build, let's have PLEX for Supercap Proliferation! Capturing sov space! How dare I have to wait for SBU's and TCU's and reinforcement timers, pass me the PLEX young Timmy, it's time for PLEX for Obscene Sov Wars!
Is your feature needed by anything other than your impatience, will your feature have any negative fallout to anyone other than yourself, will it add anything positive to the game?
Hal. Why yes, yes I am going to shoot you. |
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
66
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 20:58:00 -
[157] - Quote
Halaxi wrote:Okay, let's try this.
You want to get skillpoints for PLEX, because the idea of spending time to get the skills is something you don't agree with. So, essentially, you disagree with the time-investment aspect of EvE. Okay.
Imagine it gets put in. A precedent has now been set. A way of not just mitigating, but ignoring the time investment has come into being. The player base demands more. After all, it has been introduced once, it can be expanded.
So, what else would you like to remove the time investment from?
Let's see. Moon mining and reactions, yes they take a pesky amount of time, let's have PLEX for reactions! Titans! Those cheeky little buggers, taking so long to build, let's have PLEX for Supercap Proliferation! Capturing sov space! How dare I have to wait for SBU's and TCU's and reinforcement timers, pass me the PLEX young Timmy, it's time for PLEX for Obscene Sov Wars!
Is your feature needed by anything other than your impatience, will your feature have any negative fallout to anyone other than yourself, will it add anything positive to the game?
Hal.
Hal.
This is just a Straw Man argument equating things obviously extreme with a modest proposal. We have already discussed limiting the SP you could buy and potentially what skills it could be applied to as moderation of the OP.
Player retention is a huge problem for this game. What are your ideas to improve that?
We can debate how best to do this but I can speak from experience watching friends try it and drop out. They all complained that you suck ass for months in this game doing the dullest PvE imaginable before you have enough SP to really have fun.
How do you propose to improve the new player experience?
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Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
66
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 20:59:00 -
[158] - Quote
Halaxi wrote:Okay, let's try this.
You want to get skillpoints for PLEX, because the idea of spending time to get the skills is something you don't agree with. So, essentially, you disagree with the time-investment aspect of EvE. Okay.
Imagine it gets put in. A precedent has now been set. A way of not just mitigating, but ignoring the time investment has come into being. The player base demands more. After all, it has been introduced once, it can be expanded.
So, what else would you like to remove the time investment from?
Let's see. Moon mining and reactions, yes they take a pesky amount of time, let's have PLEX for reactions! Titans! Those cheeky little buggers, taking so long to build, let's have PLEX for Supercap Proliferation! Capturing sov space! How dare I have to wait for SBU's and TCU's and reinforcement timers, pass me the PLEX young Timmy, it's time for PLEX for Obscene Sov Wars!
Is your feature needed by anything other than your impatience, will your feature have any negative fallout to anyone other than yourself, will it add anything positive to the game?
Hal.
Hal,
This is just a Straw Man argument equating things obviously extreme with a modest proposal. We have already discussed limiting the SP you could buy and potentially what skills it could be applied to as moderation of the OP.
Player retention is a huge problem for this game. What are your ideas to improve that?
We can debate how best to do this but I can speak from experience watching friends try it and drop out. They all complained that you suck ass for months in this game doing the dullest PvE imaginable before you have enough SP to really have fun.
How do you propose to improve the new player experience?
|
Halaxi
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
57
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:18:00 -
[159] - Quote
Well, I wouldn't give them a false impression of the time it takes to develop a character for a start.
At the end of the day, EvE is a game involving time investment. The issue those who drop out have is that they don't like having to spend so long to develop, rather than doing a WoW and getting to max level in a fortnight. Simply put, the game isn't for them, and no matter what change you put in, ultimatly they will not like it.
The character of the game is what it is, you can't please everyone, and they should play a game that they enjoy.
Hal. Why yes, yes I am going to shoot you. |
Anomaly One
158
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:26:00 -
[160] - Quote
something that will make 98% of the playerbase quit? eve featured on web sites as the top line **** of p2w game? WHY THE HELL NOT!!
this is what op had been pondering while he pressed the post button. I refuse to believe this guy isn't a troll, no one is that stupid but then again people like this amaze me all the time! 8 pages and he still doesn't get it, he ain't getting it!!! Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1763
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 23:53:00 -
[161] - Quote
OP doesn't seem to understand that for as bad as EVE may be at new player retention (a large part of which is due to the community and not just the game itself), games that offer instant gratification are even worse at it.
Players who buy that month's worth of SP up front will still have to spend the entire month waiting before they can buy another month's worth of SP. These sorts of people will, by and large, become bored and impatient at having to wait a whole month for another block of SP and end up leaving anyway. In the end, you'll have done nothing for new player retention and instead done significant damage to the metagame.
We like healthy debate and good ideas around here in F&I, but you have brought neither of these things to the table. |
Leost
Fedaration Navy
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 00:50:00 -
[162] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Alx Warlord wrote:If this happens, Everyone I know will quit EVE, it will be a Huge real life money sink. Eve have many problems already... this would kill it. I would quit too, not going to pump even more money into the game.
You pump money into every month either through your subscription or through your consumption of a PLEX. You don't understand how fungible assets work in an economy.
Also, I never said I supported the OP's idea. You made that assumption (as did many others). A person can make a point which may happen to support or defend someone else's idea without in fact agreeing with them. A community that doesn't allow that isn't being honest.
I see some merit to the OP, but I don't think it fixes any sort of problem. I don't think new players leave for this reason. I think people who want alts to do specific things for them would use this feature and perhaps wish it were around, but new players I think need time to grow in a normal MMO/RPG fasion and accelerating that won't help them learn the game. Of course some people would like it and it could help retain some players, but probably just as many would do it and then be turned off by all of a sudden needing to sell a second PLEX to be able to buy that battleship they just got skills for, or be pissed when that battleship gets blown up because they put a stupid fit on it. In fact for truly new players the negative may out weight any positive. At most I would support being able to spend a PLEX to double the SP gain rate for a max of 3 months per character life, which is somewhat like what the OP's idea has turned into over all these pages. I might suggest preventing a player from doing this within the first 30 days (players at that time already have those boosters to use anyway). |
Royaldo
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
84
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 01:08:00 -
[163] - Quote
No just plain no. |
Sigras
Conglomo
653
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 01:16:00 -
[164] - Quote
Dr Sraggles wrote:Sigras wrote:Dr Sraggles wrote:Sigras wrote:Dr Sraggles wrote:The only difference between being able to buy SP for your current toon (the current proposal) and buying the SP in the Character Bizarr on another toon that has more where you want it is that it may destroy the Character Bazaar market (and many posting here seem to have a vested interest in that). I also agree that it would likely inflate the price of PLEX in terms of Isk. But I don't see that as necessarily game breaking by any means. It is ridiculously easy to earn enough isk to buy a PLEX. I think we're getting to the root issue of why you think this is ok. You dont really understand the concept of economics. Its just like buying a PLEX and selling it for ISK. When you do that no ISK is created, it's just transferred from one player to another, and these player transfers follow the laws of supply and demand, the price changes on a daily basis. This is called an open market.Now imagine with me if CCP came out and said "we're implementing a new program, you pay us $20 and we'll give you 750,000,000 ISK" Well they would have to spawn it into the game to do that, and at first I imagine this would go very well for them; they would see several people shelling out the cash to make this happen, but over time as more and more ISK was just dumped into the system haphazardly, inflation would begin to show. Having a billion ISK would mean less and less because everyone has a billion ISK, soon prices would start to rise everywhere across new eden because the ISK has begun to lose its buying power. Soon the $20 for 750 million looks like a bad deal because even day 1 noobs have that after doing some mining. This is called inflationSee when someone buys a character from the character bazaar, no additional SP are created. This means that if say tomorrow 50,000 people all wanted new characters, the price would go up because there is a limited supply. What you want would be for CCP to give you SP when you spend a PLEX which is an entirely different thing. CCP would have to essentially spawn new SP into the game and give it to you out of nowhere. This means that SP is slightly more common every time you do that. This would make SP worth less and less until it was worthless. All that being said, you're probably just going to ignore this post or somehow ignorantly justify you way around it because you want to continue to believe what you want to believe without regards for logic or facts. The reason I am going to ignore this post is that there is no logic in equating SP to isk. One is a currency for buying the tools of the game. The other is the ability to use the tools. They are not the same and not as freely traded. This "inflation" of SP that you imaging would happen is easily controlled by the suggestions above: Limit how much and where the SP could be spent. So are you denying the economic principle that increasing the availability of an item without creating a new way for that item to be destroyed will cause the value of that item to go down? It doesnt matter if you limit it to purchasing 1 SP per week, thats still 1 SP per week that shouldnt be in the game! Inflation is inflation is inflation. Again and again you show a blatant ignorance or disregard (not sure which) for basic economics . . . perhaps eve isnt the game for you. SP would never mean less and less until it is worthless. It would always be worth a high percentage of the isk required to create it just as it is now. It might be worth slightly less on a toon in the character bazaar (just as it is now) but at some point people are going to save that difference by buying a toon with the SP they want in the bazaar and deal with the derpy name rather than waste money just to have their "own" toon. What I believe will go up is the price of a PLEX in terms of Isk. This of course can be controlled by increasing the supply (CCP can lower the $$ cost). This is Econ 101 so you can spare me the lecture that apparently makes yourself feel better next time. So im just clarifying your position . . . youre saying dumping a bunch of SP into the game out of nowhere wouldnt cause the current SP in the game to be worth less?
youre saying it wouldnt be any less rare or special to have a 100 million SP toon after this change?
I just want to clarify that is the assertion you're making because if so, you're the one who needs econ 101 . . . actually forget econ, just consider going back to math 990 |
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
66
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 02:51:00 -
[165] - Quote
Sigras wrote:
So im just clarifying your position . . . youre saying dumping a bunch of SP into the game out of nowhere wouldnt cause the current SP in the game to be worth less?
youre saying it wouldnt be any less rare or special to have a 100 million SP toon after this change?
I just want to clarify that is the assertion you're making because if so, you're the one who needs econ 101 . . . actually forget econ, just consider going back to math 990
Maybe you should actually try reading the thread and get up to speed where the proposal lies?
It has changed pretty dramatically from the OP due to constructive feedback. The suggestion currently is that it would only be available for newish toons and only be available for certain core skills to prevent instantaneous creation of 100mill SP toons.
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Market Marked
Poetical Justice Enforcers
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 04:49:00 -
[166] - Quote
Not sure if trolling... or...
But if not, then.
a) CCP will never, ever, ever, never, nope, nopedy nope nope nope, never evar do this.
b) There is no issue here that needs solving, new players progression in eve has been shortened and refined to a fairly good degree, it's in a balance now, not to fast as to make alts too powerful to quick for an experienced player and not to long for a new player to be frustrated with not being relevant. Within a month a new player can fly a t1 frig at nearly 95% efficiency of that of an older player, some practice and they can do fine.
c) It creates many many more problems as to never be worth it.
Anyway done with this thread, got done laughing bout 5 minutes ago, nothing more to laugh at and any arbitrary response from you will probably not be worth my time. |
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
117
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 04:51:00 -
[167] - Quote
Skip plex and make It take straight up isk for sp. 1m for 1b. |
Nejerjin Cleansing
3 Sun Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 05:20:00 -
[168] - Quote
This is entirely pay to win. This would break the fundamentals of the game. The anticipation of logging in to a new skill or building up to a new ship is the best experience. Maybe you have just become abrupt to the fact that players in eve don't dig their wallets in deep to get in a marauder. This is instant gratification.
If time is precious, you should not play a game built on the idea of growing a character in a chartered map with the new discoveries lore wise like wormholes and new ship development.
Plex is a way for people who do not have money out of game that are typically struck in the rather poor economy, or would rather not spend it on a game, to play the game. Raising the prices of plex by theoretically allowing people to say jump into capitals first hand and have NO IDEA what they are doing. Tbh that would be nice to kill off more scrubs.
TL;DR. This idea has been dug up over and over for years so my new and brilliant idea is to put it to rest. P.s. That means quit bitching, train skills. |
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
66
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 06:25:00 -
[169] - Quote
Nejerjin Cleansing wrote:This is entirely pay to win. This would break the fundamentals of the game. The anticipation of logging in to a new skill or building up to a new ship is the best experience. Maybe you have just become abrupt to the fact that players in eve don't dig their wallets in deep to get in a marauder. This is instant gratification. If time is precious, you should not play a game built on the idea of growing a character in a chartered map with the new discoveries lore wise like wormholes and new ship development. Plex is a way for people who do not have money out of game that are typically struck in the rather poor economy, or would rather not spend it on a game, to play the game. Raising the prices of plex by theoretically allowing people to say jump into capitals first hand and have NO IDEA what they are doing. Tbh that would be nice to kill off more scrubs. TL;DR. This idea has been dug up over and over for years so my new and brilliant idea is to put it to rest. P.s. That means quit bitching, train skills.
Nice work at not reading the thread. Do you really think that after 9 pages people are still only responding to the OP and that nothing has evolved since then? |
Mr Beardsley
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 08:08:00 -
[170] - Quote
Pay-to-win is never good. Ever. (I even have serious problems with PLEX). What IS good is regularly examining game mechanics that simply aren't compelling, immersive or fun. So let me highjack this ancient argument for a sec and ask this: what's really the main annoyance most of us have with EVE's skill system? My #1 pet peeve is the idea that higher levels of skills take exponentially longer to learn. That's never made sense to me even from a wild sci-fi perspective. I think that it would be a lot better if the EVE skill advancement curve was flattened out a little. Ultimately this would mean less time to maxing a skill - I would say +15-20% faster at each skill level would be about right. To be fair you would need to pay back the veterans who did it the hard way. How to do that? Relatively simple: you calculate the amount of SP they would have saved under the new system and give it back to them. Who doesn't love logging in after a major update or expansion and seeing loose SP you can do anything with? Another thing I've always wished is that some portion of your SP could be gained via actually using skills. I admit that I've only got a few ideas about how this might be done and they might add a good bit of overhead to the servers. Still, I would love to see it implemented somehow. For example, imagine if for every 1000m of ore you mine you get +1 SP towards the specialized mining skill for that ore. If you didn't actually have the skill injected those SP would be instantly applied when you DID finally gain that skill. So say you've been sitting 24/7 in a Retriever mining Veld for a week and then you get Veldspar Processing. Well, you might instantly shoot halfway to level 2 as a result of your on-the-job training. (Yes I'm guessing here..I could be way off regarding how much SP you'd have by then so adjust the numbers to fit the outcome.) I don't see it being very unbalanced and it adds some flavor to the game and rewards specialization. |
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
651
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 08:30:00 -
[171] - Quote
Whilst I, like most players, dislike the OP's original idea and also the swill the OP is distilling it into you should start a new thread rather than derailing his. Derailing someone's thread isn't nice.
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
651
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 08:39:00 -
[172] - Quote
Dr Sraggles wrote:Tchulen wrote:Dr Sraggles wrote:My suggestion is about getting people through some of the worst of the first 6 mos when you really need an income and can't fly anything that really produces one. This is your problem. How is it that I (and I assume most of the people disagreeing with you) didn't have a problem with it? I joined long before the new player experiences were introduced and I still didn't have a problem with it. Now, I agree that the new player stuff is better than before, having played through it but I simply can't agree with you about being able to buy SP in any form whatsoever. It isn't needed. I didn't need it. No one that I know who plays or has played EVE needed it. Why is that, do you think? Why is it that we didn't need to buy SP but you seem to think that anyone who isn't currently playing the game needs it? I didn't need it as I was learning to play the game at the time and so the speed of progression was correct. The only reason that wouldn't be so is if you're not talking about new players but instead you're really talking about yourself. This is my guess: You don't give two craps about new players. What you want is the ability to boost your alts immediately to the point that they're useful. You don't want to wait for the time it would take a new player to learn how to play the game as you don't need to for your alts as you've already learned. You don't want to come on the forum and say that as you know you'd get seriously booted for it so you come here claiming to be all altruistic and only thinking of the new players. Nice. Cool story bro.
Only because it's likely to be true. Your ideas don't really help new players. I disagree with your claims that all new players that leave do so because they're not progressing fast enough. Most people I know that started playing the game and left did so because it's not the game for them and wouldn't have been even if they could buy SP.
The only times I hear the people I know who play the game complain about the speed of progression is when creating alts. I haven't heard a single person complain that on their first character (usually their main) they had any issues with the speed of progression.
That's why I think you're being disingenuous. That's why I think your agenda is for alts, not new players.
As I said, only a cool story because it's likely to be true. I notice you didn't refute it.
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
369
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 09:33:00 -
[173] - Quote
Zerlestes wrote:lets see even a newbie can kill an veteran if he is smart and the veteran isnt skilled eve isnt easy it should not be easy and not every one has the money for plex for me its a good point in eve that i dont can reach all i want within a few weeks
wait skill enjoy and skill again plus, being killed by a vet can teach you more than killing a vet.
i did killed a few ppl when i was about 6month old with a few friends barely older than me, and some of our tgt where playing for years, then one day, we came accross this dude, in a machariel, and we had 6 BC. yes we HAD
probably one of my best fight, even if we were raped, but we all learned a lot, especially since we recorded the thing, and watching it back again, we learned How he did all that, and of course integrated to our playstyle as much as we could.
and here i am, years later, and i STILL use some of the tricks, with much success, that i learned that day.
if i would have been able to "buy" SP, i would have flown bigger, and this fight wouldn't have occured, like many others.
i think being limited in SP at first allows one to actually experiment with limited ships / mods, to avoid spending all his isk in shiny ships to try to compensate, flying a machariel or a cynabla can seems to be a good idea, but you need SP and player skills or you will just loose isk.
sometimes it happen, to come accross a pilot who bought a high SP pvp pilot able to fly vindi's or other shiny pvp ships, and end up being killed and ragequiting, not undertanding why a 3 vexor gang killed him.
this would not be a gift to new players, really |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1075
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 09:57:00 -
[174] - Quote
Dr Sraggles wrote:Topic says it all.
For the Price of a PLEX why not let me buy a month's worth of SP (@ say, 2500 SP/Hr) that I can then allocate as I choose?
Time is precious to us all. I would like to be able to dump that month's worth of SP into those Level 5 skills that are so painful to train. Then I can buy a plex and finally get T2 Torps and Covops 5 or Cyno 5 etc and not twiddle my thumbs on the rest of my skills while I wait.
PLEX prices rise, CCP profits.
No, I don't want to buy another toon with millions of SP that are not in areas I am interested in, I want unallocated SP for PLEX that I can put precisely where I want it.
/discuss
Plex price increase not not help CCP. For god sake.. why people think ccp care on the price of ANYTHIGN in isk? They nEED US$ not ISK. They ahve infinite ISK, Isk is not what they use to pay their bank loans!!!
IF they do what you suggest, then the metagame woudl collapse ocmpeltely. Unless you limit to 1 months per year.... or somethign like that. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
116
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 10:28:00 -
[175] - Quote
Even one omnth a year is too much. The rich players would be able to simpy buy perfect level skills (on top of there existing ones) in any new discipline that CCP invent, leaving the poorer and newer characters behind immediately. I had a thread on people being able to earn a bonus on sp on the skills they actively use (judged by which sklills are tested for success within game)) Even though this would only have been a bonus to active players I have still been persuaded by reasoned arguments that this wouldn't benefit the game (even if I still think it would :D ).
The current system may be imperfect in many peoples eyes but an imperfect but level system is better than one that gives unfair advantage to those fiscally gifted (in RL or ISK terms). |
Centurax
Eve Engineering Authority Eve Engineering
14
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Posted - 2014.01.15 10:53:00 -
[176] - Quote
Well No, this is a bad idea.
Having gone the long way to getting a lot of SP you learn very quickly it isn't the number of SP you have it is how you use the training time, and with changes to ships over the last 2 years you don't need to have frigate lv5, tech 2 or tech 3 ships to take part in PVP and be effective. Also officer fit ships die just as fast as t2 fit ships with the right fleet attacking, you clearly have a misconception of how Eve works, the game is generally too balanced so having all skills at lv5 isn't as much as an advantage as you might think getting an extra 3 to 5 % isn't going to necessary mean the difference between you wining or losing (but some times it might).
Maybe a better way is doing away with attribute implants and the attribute system all together and have a fixed number of skill points allocated per day that would at least equalise everyone's training. It also means that if you don't have the attributes set correctly you don't lose valuable training time like you do now. Implant slots 1 to 5 then could be used for more combat implants so when you get podded it will be just as bigger loss as if you had those expensive +5 implants .
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
52
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Posted - 2014.01.15 11:19:00 -
[177] - Quote
Ah... I remember when we had learning skills... then they got nerfed.
I see them keeping dual training, but this? No. |
Ching Shin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:21:00 -
[178] - Quote
Why not allow someone to use PLEX to buy the ability to train two skills at the same time? Make it so there are as few as two disciplines, ships, and not ships. Maybe three, ships, industry, and social. Or break it down into many, ships, weapons, defense, support, mining, manufacturing, etc. Then make it so you can't train skills in the same discipline. Limit it to only one extra skill training queue and given that you would have to balance your stats it wouldn't be exactly double speed either. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
539
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Posted - 2014.02.18 18:19:00 -
[179] - Quote
Dr Sraggles wrote: The problem is the truly fundamental problem of eve. A new player is a nearly worthless toon for many, many months.
The idea is to help people leap frog over the worthless period and get to the fun period sooner.
This is utterly untrue. Even the noobiest player in the game after a single gaming session can fit tackle to a T1 frigate and catch someone for his fleet mates. Also, that period where the low SP player is learning eve is critical for his development. If you "leap-frog" over it by paying for SP, you will have even more inexperienced players in expensive ships that they don't know how to use.
The only players this will benefit are the experienced pvpers that love noobs in blinged-out faction ships and marauders.
Every Rifter counts. Free Ripley Weaver! |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1097
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Posted - 2014.02.18 18:32:00 -
[180] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Dr Sraggles wrote: The problem is the truly fundamental problem of eve. A new player is a nearly worthless toon for many, many months.
The idea is to help people leap frog over the worthless period and get to the fun period sooner.
This is utterly untrue. Even the noobiest player in the game after a single gaming session can fit tackle to a T1 frigate and catch someone for his fleet mates. Also, that period where the low SP player is learning eve is critical for his development. If you "leap-frog" over it by paying for SP, you will have even more inexperienced players in expensive ships that they don't know how to use. The only players this will benefit are the experienced pvpers that love noobs in blinged-out faction ships and marauders. Every Rifter counts.
seconded
have u seen the amount of newer players that fund expensive ships and fittings with plexes and then dnt have the foggiest what they are doing? u learn a lot in that grind for isk.
the 'worthless' period ur referring to, other ppl use that time to learn. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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