That's rich coming from you. Your argument? As of yet Whaaa is not applicable. You offer nothing but quip replies and vague Ad Hominem retorts, with no substance or direction just a desire to derail a solid rebalancing request of Rules of engagement for contested private mission loot.

You have yet to give a reason why an intruder to a mission site not owned by you (Your admission; ''take it'') should not earn a Suspect flag.

Suspect flag for going into someone's pocket without authorization sounds fun. It would cause more pvp. Isn't that what pocket invaders want overall? Surely they aren't looking for easy targets and are scrub-tier pvpers.

Suspect flag for going into someone's pocket without authorization sounds fun. It would cause more pvp. Isn't that what pocket invaders want overall? Surely they aren't looking for easy targets and are scrub-tier pvpers.

In reality if this change ever happened this whole activity of mission griefing would probably drop off substantially and there wouldn't be enough targets to make ganking them worthwhile.

Less risk for suicide gankers though, as I previously explained.

In reality if this change ever happened this whole activity of mission griefing would probably drop off substantially and there wouldn't be enough targets to make ganking them worthwhile.

It does seem that the biggest concern to the griefers is that this change will create more risk to them both in and out of the mission pocket.

And they are right that if this suggestion is implemented, griefing missioners will no longer be so easy/relatively risk free.

Very little would change, except a bit more grief for the mission runners.

People would still come into mission pockets to do whatever they are there for, and the smart missioner will still sit there and let them knowing that most of these people have support fleets waiting for the stupid missioner to open fire.

A few more mission ships would pop until people realized whats up, a few new scams utilizing the new mechanic would emerge, and likely the screams would encourage a new kind of mission griefing where PvP fleets warped in and begun poping all the high value targets while daring the missioner to open fire--- which they dont do now because CONCORD prevents it.

Seriously, there is no up side to this proposal, it only encourages and empowers the griefers to redouble their predations.

Yeah lots of people disagree with almost everything you posted, including this.

It would certainly make mission griefing harder on the griefers if a suspect flag for mission invasion was implemented.

You realize how easily griefers could exploit the suspect timer?

All you need to do is accept a mission on you main, make a bookmark of the mission location an give it to an alt. You can now proceed to warp the victim to that location, which no one in the fleet has access to, and kill him when he lands without concord intervention.

This is just going to be the MTU "exploit" allover, griefers exploiting ****** mechanics to kill inexperienced players.

It's a dumb idea that don't even remotely solves any mission problems, except maybe for marauders pilots getting attacked by destroyers. In most other cases things remain unchanged, because the griefer would enable suspect him self, in the cases where it might give the mission runner an advantage any effect can be nullified by bringing 1-2 extra people.

Having read the entire thread, I have seen no substantiated point offered by you against this proposed change in the ROE.

And as you well know there is nothing a solo mission runner can do to prevent you from stealing the loot and warping out, since you are a suspect for half a second before engaging warp. The option of not accepting the mission at all, or waiting till you are not online to do the mission is available but by not stopping this extortion, I am promoting your type of game play and encouraging others to use the same style, thereby limiting chances of future success by new players in my chosen style. Of course the mission runner can attempt to gank you and loose his ship to concord but that's not really an option either is it?

That's why setting intruders to suspect will give the mission runner a chance to engage and protect what is his, and probably why you are so vehement against it.

Lots of opinion there MIke... lots of opinion.

You should really read the original post (or re-read it).

All the benefits are clearly listed and spelled out there.

The fact that every mission invader would be suspect flagged really increases the ability to counter it.

Or, the missioner could choose to not do anything as they currently do.

They are certainly never forced to fight or attack in any way.

You realize how easily griefers could exploit the suspect timer?

All you need to do is accept a mission on you main, make a bookmark of the mission location an give it to an alt. You can now proceed to warp the victim to that location, which no one in the fleet has access to, and kill him when he lands without concord intervention.

This is just going to be the MTU "exploit" allover, griefers exploiting ****** mechanics to kill inexperienced players.

It's a dumb idea that don't even remotely solves any mission problems, except maybe for marauders pilots getting attacked by destroyers. In most other cases things remain unchanged, because the griefer would enable suspect him self, in the cases where it might give the mission runner an advantage any effect can be nullified by bringing 1-2 extra people.

Lots of people disagree? You mean you and a few publords who don't care about the overall state of the game so long as they can grind isk efficiently?

A lot more people agree with me honestly, and the ones who do agree are the ones who have concise, thought out posts, valid arguments and a good understanding of game mechanics and philosophies. I'm afraid I cannot say the same about your handful of supporters.

An excellent example of why not to do this.

Why do you care if high bears quit missioning (which they won't)? Why do you care if they can't grind isk as efficiently as before (which they will)?

I'd also love for you to explain how the suspect flags idea with missions (with missioners that roll with their babbysafety on green 24/7) will suddenly suffer MORE because of the change?

They'll never accidentally shoot suspects, and vigilantes are interested in player kills, so they'll come in and blow up other suspect flagged people, even other vigilantes.

This isn't the missioners problem

You actually think that the vigilantes are going to waste their time blowing up missioner wrecks especially the specific ones that matter instead of looking for more killmails?

It does not need to allow squad warping.

If you take a mission, hand the waypoint to a PvP alt, and have that alt form a greifing gank fleet he can just sit in the pocket and kill anyone else who joins his fleet and warps to the mission as he likes.

In EVE, one always has to account for the abusive use of Alts.

With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.

As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission.