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Is Scamming Killing The Future Of Eve?

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Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:21:00 - [1] - Quote Just be interesting to know what people think about this. Yes scamming has been a part of eve, but is this one reason why its not reached or will never reach its potential? See back years when CCP thought we want to create a mean, dark game where you need to have your wits about you etc, was probably a great concept, especially from a MMO Space persective, as there wasnt anything like EVE back then. However things have changed dramatically in 8 years and how people want to play games and what they expect. Games have changed, very rarely you see point and click games or those adventure games etc all a big thing in the past but not really anymore. Most people want to pick up a game, play it, turn off without any real consequence. Eve can put you through turmoil, you can spend many days, hours months building something, only for it to be taken away in an instant. For example that newbiw whose took months, mining, mission and ratting to get that shiny new raven (bearing in mind he still cant really fly it) and along come some high sec gankers and poof its gone all the hard work gone. Back to square one. Or lets say for the example of scamming. People may have spent months getting the isk, or even paid out for plex in order to buy the nice mothership, quite expensive moneywise, perhaps someones savings, or months wages maybe. and then instantly gone, because someone scammed them and there was nothing they could do.. A new player joins people like say goons, and instantly gets scammed. Do you think in this day and age thats what people want? Do you think that people will just unsub when stuff like this happens? Of course they would....or a lot will, especially when CCP allows it, and when really there isnt any mechanics to truly protect anyone. People dont want to play a game like that anymore, and to be honest they dont have to, because there as sooo many games out there they can go elsewhere, the only real losers in the end is CCP, because as much as they try boast they have subs going up, well this is either because currently players get more accounts, as you need to have more than 1 really to play this game effectively, 2) becuase yes there will be many trial accounts, and then people dont actually sub, and yes some genuine ones, however the concurrent users have dropped quite a bit. Is it time EVE changed a little in order to survive and bring in and keep new players interested? Being instantly scammed, or being instantly high sec ganked by bitter vets is pretty much going to kill the game in the end. All the vets will eventually leave, and what will that leave? no one? Do we need to stop scamming? or at least have measures in place to protect players to some extent? Be interesting to see what people think on this subject, please dont come out with, scamming is part of eve, we know that, but is it that, in these times that will cause eve to fail in end and does it need changing?
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 15	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:25:00 - [2] - Quote The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. Kiddies don't like losing No, it doesn't. In fact it helps it. Because after 19, you kind of want to beat the **** outta those kiddies and take their lunch money then hang them up by their underwear on the basketball hoop
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1362	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:28:00 - [3] - Quote Not in any mechanical way, no. A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3067	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:29:00 - [4] - Quote The promise of scamming has brought dozens if not hundreds of players to EVE Online, and that's just from one forum community of which I am a member. I cannot imagine how many more individual people have been inspired by such tales as that old "Great Heist" by Guiding Hand Social Club, disbanding Band of Brothers, and other such antics that simply would not be tolerated in other games. This isn't even scratching the surface of how many people finance their account(s) and character purchases with the proceeds from scams, and the promises of such being used to entice more people to play the game. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Luh Windan Ancient Motorboats 6	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:29:00 - [5] - Quote or... EVE will never be a mainstream lowest common denominator MMO like WOW. It still brings in very good money for CCP each month (especially if they don't try to overreach themselves with new games and unrealistic new ideas) If you make everything easy everywhere for everyone you just end up with bland shallow rubbish. EVE should stay like it is (well personally I would change it so there wasn't such a distinction between PvE and PvP so you had less of a player divide (oh and make PvE more like PvP regarding ship fits and the AIs BTW not make PvP easier)) and fill its own niche So - yes get rid of scamming and gankers and the goons and whatever but you will be left, to borrow a cliche, with hello kitty in space in fact the whole 'environment' part of Eve strikes me as far too basic and easy - the Environment as regards the place you get your isk form - for null, low and high should be more dynamic, changing over time ( so people don't fall in ruts or sit on free isk sources ) and require more thought)
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3067	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:33:00 - [6] - Quote Not to drop names or anything, but there is a certain Star Wars-themed MMO that is debuting soon that might be more up your alley if an experience closer to World of Warcraft than EVE Online is what you prefer. There is also a Star Trek-themed MMO, and I am sure if you look that you could find many other examples of the "standard" MMO fare, set in space. What differentiates EVE Online from other MMOs isn't so much that it's set in space, since as I said that niche has been trespassed by other MMOs by now, but that there is a certain type of laissez-faire and dystopian Wild West feel to it that invites you in with promises of the ability to do stuff that matters in the only way that truly can matterGÇöby having a real and lasting effect on other players. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Luh Windan Ancient Motorboats 6	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:34:00 - [7] - Quote Tippia wrote: Not in any mechanical way, no. A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions. ha ha yes - the noob tutorials should pull a fast one on you - get you ganked or something (and then make it better so you don't just get instant unsubscribes but it would set the tone)
Masamune Dekoro School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 23	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:40:00 - [8] - Quote Eve has always and will always cater to a niche playerbase; changing it to appeal to a larger group of players would involve changing many more fundamental mechanics than just scamming or hi-sec ganking. Also, if there were a million subscribers, i'd hardly expect the game to be run on a single shard anymore; which personally is one of the greatest things Eve has going for it.
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 16	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:45:00 - [9] - Quote Masamune Dekoro wrote: Eve has always and will always cater to a niche playerbase; changing it to appeal to a larger group of players would involve changing many more fundamental mechanics than just scamming or hi-sec ganking. Also, if there were a million subscribers, i'd hardly expect the game to be run on a single shard anymore; which personally is one of the greatest things Eve has going for it. It would, but it'd be like STO or AoC; instanced...with maybe 1k per instance, but a Global Chat......oh what fun that would be.... "which instance are you in again?"
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:45:00 - [10] - Quote Masamune Dekoro wrote: Eve has always and will always cater to a niche playerbase; changing it to appeal to a larger group of players would involve changing many more fundamental mechanics than just scamming or hi-sec ganking. Also, if there were a million subscribers, i'd hardly expect the game to be run on a single shard anymore; which personally is one of the greatest things Eve has going for it. Well it was, until its become saturated. Where all the major alliances, know where everything is, where all the moongold is in every system and controls it all. I think thats a major problem.. But i digress.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1362	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:47:00 - [11] - Quote Luh Windan wrote: ha ha yes - the noob tutorials should pull a fast one on you - get you ganked or something (and then make it better so you don't just get instant unsubscribes but it would set the tone) Actually, it's not as strange an idea as it may sound. Planetside GÇö that other PvP MMO that was released around the same time as EVE GÇö did something very similar in its tutorial to teach new players about what to expect and how to handle those situations. CCP have already introduced tutorials that gank the new player, and more of that could certainly be needed. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 169	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:48:00 - [12] - Quote Scamming is a part of our real world. Eve tries to emulate that as much as possible. Start censoring or removing life aspects from Eve and you will end-up with a thinly diluted Sims in space. It will stagnate and die. If CCP stays the present course and the future brings all their promises to fruitition, there is no reason why Eve cannot evolve and keep doing so. In doing so, it will attract more and more players. The long-term effect of CCP bringing Dust the the PS network is that those Dust players will more than likely and invariably, try-out Eve and end-up playing here as well. It's win-win. I do think however that the Eve adverts should "warn" about the realities of life which happen ingame. That, in my opinion, will attract more players as well. Being forewarned, excuses of "I was scammed, I want my money back" will be greatly minimised. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Niko Takahashi Perkone Caldari State 7	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:48:00 - [13] - Quote Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. Kiddies don't like losing No, it doesn't. In fact it helps it. Because after 19, you kind of want to beat the **** outta those kiddies and take their lunch money then hang them up by their underwear on the basketball hoop Agreed Scamming should stay it is actually amusing
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:54:00 - [14] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: Scamming is a part of our real world. Eve tries to emulate that as much as possible. Start censoring or removing life aspects from Eve and you will end-up with a thinly diluted Sims in space. It will stagnate and die. If CCP stays the present course and the future brings all their promises to fruitition, there is no reason why Eve cannot evolve and keep doing so. In doing so, it will attract more and more players. The long-term effect of CCP bringing Dust the the PS network is that those Dust players will more than likely and invariably, try-out Eve and end-up playing here as well. It's win-win. I do think however that the Eve adverts should "warn" about the realities of life which happen ingame. That, in my opinion, will attract more players as well. Being forewarned, excuses of "I was scammed, I want my money back" will be greatly minimised. I do agree, and the same with Tippia, offering more ingame ecducation or simulations rather than change the game would help dramatically.
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 897	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:56:00 - [15] - Quote Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Stella Dust Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:57:00 - [16] - Quote I think scamming is less destructive than ganking as far as keeping people is concerned. Ganking for the sake of ganking (just for kicks) that is, not the organised ganking of a freighter.
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:58:00 - [17] - Quote Niko Takahashi wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. Kiddies don't like losing No, it doesn't. In fact it helps it. Because after 19, you kind of want to beat the **** outta those kiddies and take their lunch money then hang them up by their underwear on the basketball hoop Agreed Scamming should stay it is actually amusing But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership Whats that -ú300 roughly? thats pretty much someones money you are stealing, and alot of money to spend on a game. They aint gonna be too happy especially when they can do nothing about it. Even worse when CCP says oh well tough. Not really what you want to hear when you effectively had had -ú300 stolen is it?
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:59:00 - [18] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. Why do you always have to post crap? We having actually a decent discussion here, and idiots like you have to troll. Reported..
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 897	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:01:00 - [19] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership Whats that -ú300 roughly? Anybody spending real money for supercaps deserves to be scammed. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 897	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:01:00 - [20] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. Why do you always have to post crap? We having actually a decent discussion here, and idiots like you have to troll. Reported.. I think you just proved my point. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 16	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:02:00 - [21] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: Scamming is a part of our real world. Eve tries to emulate that as much as possible. Start censoring or removing life aspects from Eve and you will end-up with a thinly diluted Sims in space. It will stagnate and die. If CCP stays the present course and the future brings all their promises to fruitition, there is no reason why Eve cannot evolve and keep doing so. In doing so, it will attract more and more players. The long-term effect of CCP bringing Dust the the PS network is that those Dust players will more than likely and invariably, try-out Eve and end-up playing here as well. It's win-win. I do think however that the Eve adverts should "warn" about the realities of life which happen ingame. That, in my opinion, will attract more players as well. Being forewarned, excuses of "I was scammed, I want my money back" will be greatly minimised. Actually, in the real world many places have laws against scamming. This is where the concept of "game must be fair" comes from. [ rant ] Also, about the DUST...** Dust and ** CCP for being stupid; I wanted to play DUST along with EVE. Put a long-queue skill up and jump planetside (pun unintended) to pass the time. [ /rant ] All the trailers I've watched, pretty much all of them, EVE isn't portrayed in any light other than Hostile. Honestly, a great way to fix the issue is simple. A test. At character creation. "Are you allowed to scam players using in-game methods?" If you answer "No" you are forbidden from: a) making a character for 14days b) using same email to make another account (see 'a' for time limit) c) coming on the forums to complain you got scammed (actionable by a 3 day account suspension)
Stella Dust Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:05:00 - [22] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: Niko Takahashi wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. Kiddies don't like losing No, it doesn't. In fact it helps it. Because after 19, you kind of want to beat the **** outta those kiddies and take their lunch money then hang them up by their underwear on the basketball hoop Agreed Scamming should stay it is actually amusing But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership Whats that -ú300 roughly? thats pretty much someones money you are stealing, and alot of money to spend on a game. They aint gonna be too happy especially when they can do nothing about it. Even worse when CCP says oh well tough. Not really what you want to hear when you effectively had had -ú300 stolen is it? If they can afford to spend -ú300 on a few pixels then the chances are they can afford to lose it too, afterall they've already thrown -ú300 away on pixels that they don't even own.
Mr Kidd Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 143	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:06:00 - [23] - Quote Scamming is the past, present and future of Eve. Noone earns buttloads of money ingame or in RL. Vast fortunes are made. Either they're directly stolen or on the backs of others. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX!
Luh Windan Ancient Motorboats 6	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:06:00 - [24] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership Whats that -ú300 roughly? thats pretty much someones money you are stealing, and alot of money to spend on a game. They aint gonna be too happy especially when they can do nothing about it. Even worse when CCP says oh well tough. Not really what you want to hear when you effectively had had -ú300 stolen is it? perhaps you have hit the nail on the head there. If you think about your game time in terms of real life money/plex etc then yes it's going to be a big deal and quite obviously some people do. For others, like myself, I pay my subscription and my playtime is just an escape from the stresses and pressures of real life, if I mess up (and I do) then while its a pain in the you know what, I know that is because I took a risk. If I'm buying a big new boat I try to be able to afford at least two before buying one for instance. I'm afraid I don't have an answer as to how to balance that - but i can see from what you say that quite clear for some people the score is: 'that's life live with it" and for others it's "that represents a considerable investment for me"
thekiller2002us Order of Celestial Knights Galactic System Lords Alliance 27	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:10:00 - [25] - Quote Hi i'm a university student studying sociology and i'm doing my project on samming in eve- I have gathered a lot of evidence to suggest that scamming is in fact damaging the future of eve and i can send you the results and evidence and i can send you this evidence and research in game- just send me 3bil for this extensive research
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3070	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:12:00 - [26] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. My posting is killing the future of posts. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 899	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:14:00 - [27] - Quote Lyris Nairn wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. My posting is killing the future of posts. The OP doesn't like posts about posting. Hopefully he doesn't report you too. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 48	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:15:00 - [28] - Quote I dun have me a dilemma. I crave the gameplay of gosu pixiedust wonderhaven MMORPGs like a self-help book enthusiast craves the satisfying taste of savory White Castle sliders, but I'm also very fond of them science-fictions with the spaceboats and the laserbeams. A banner ad on the website I buy my Kinah at mentioned this "EVE Onlines" thing, and I gave it a try, but the sociopathic tendencies exhibited by its player base, most likely consisting of autistic high schoolers and recently laid-off postal workers, doesn't sit right with my proper Christian sense of morality. I think my best course of action is to inform the developers of their little oversight, so that they may scrub this game of its malevolent influences and reconstitute it as the wonderful source of wholesome family entertainment it was surely intended to be.
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 169	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:18:00 - [29] - Quote Lyris Nairn wrote: My posting is killing the future of posts. I like that self-immolation Dyner wrote: I wanted to play DUST along with EVE. Put a long-queue skill up and jump planetside (pun unintended) to pass the time. Me too. I guess as an optimist I will wait for the day when CCP shoot the Dust code over to the PC Platform. However, before that happens, I intend to taste Dust on my PS3. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Sicex 2	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:19:00 - [30] - Quote So there isn't allowed to be any game like EVE on the market? MMOs simply are not allowed to allow scamming... EVE is a niche game, for a niche market... the mechanics of the game alone point to the idea that we (the devs and the community) don't WANT the type of player that would spend money and buy super caps without experience and think they can simply quick-sale their way to the top. EVE doesn't need anymore of those than we already have. Let EVE be special, please.

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