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Is Scamming Killing The Future Of Eve?

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Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:21:00 - [1] - Quote Just be interesting to know what people think about this. Yes scamming has been a part of eve, but is this one reason why its not reached or will never reach its potential? See back years when CCP thought we want to create a mean, dark game where you need to have your wits about you etc, was probably a great concept, especially from a MMO Space persective, as there wasnt anything like EVE back then. However things have changed dramatically in 8 years and how people want to play games and what they expect. Games have changed, very rarely you see point and click games or those adventure games etc all a big thing in the past but not really anymore. Most people want to pick up a game, play it, turn off without any real consequence. Eve can put you through turmoil, you can spend many days, hours months building something, only for it to be taken away in an instant. For example that newbiw whose took months, mining, mission and ratting to get that shiny new raven (bearing in mind he still cant really fly it) and along come some high sec gankers and poof its gone all the hard work gone. Back to square one. Or lets say for the example of scamming. People may have spent months getting the isk, or even paid out for plex in order to buy the nice mothership, quite expensive moneywise, perhaps someones savings, or months wages maybe. and then instantly gone, because someone scammed them and there was nothing they could do.. A new player joins people like say goons, and instantly gets scammed. Do you think in this day and age thats what people want? Do you think that people will just unsub when stuff like this happens? Of course they would....or a lot will, especially when CCP allows it, and when really there isnt any mechanics to truly protect anyone. People dont want to play a game like that anymore, and to be honest they dont have to, because there as sooo many games out there they can go elsewhere, the only real losers in the end is CCP, because as much as they try boast they have subs going up, well this is either because currently players get more accounts, as you need to have more than 1 really to play this game effectively, 2) becuase yes there will be many trial accounts, and then people dont actually sub, and yes some genuine ones, however the concurrent users have dropped quite a bit. Is it time EVE changed a little in order to survive and bring in and keep new players interested? Being instantly scammed, or being instantly high sec ganked by bitter vets is pretty much going to kill the game in the end. All the vets will eventually leave, and what will that leave? no one? Do we need to stop scamming? or at least have measures in place to protect players to some extent? Be interesting to see what people think on this subject, please dont come out with, scamming is part of eve, we know that, but is it that, in these times that will cause eve to fail in end and does it need changing?
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 15	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:25:00 - [2] - Quote The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. Kiddies don't like losing No, it doesn't. In fact it helps it. Because after 19, you kind of want to beat the **** outta those kiddies and take their lunch money then hang them up by their underwear on the basketball hoop
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1362	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:28:00 - [3] - Quote Not in any mechanical way, no. A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3067	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:29:00 - [4] - Quote The promise of scamming has brought dozens if not hundreds of players to EVE Online, and that's just from one forum community of which I am a member. I cannot imagine how many more individual people have been inspired by such tales as that old "Great Heist" by Guiding Hand Social Club, disbanding Band of Brothers, and other such antics that simply would not be tolerated in other games. This isn't even scratching the surface of how many people finance their account(s) and character purchases with the proceeds from scams, and the promises of such being used to entice more people to play the game. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Luh Windan Ancient Motorboats 6	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:29:00 - [5] - Quote or... EVE will never be a mainstream lowest common denominator MMO like WOW. It still brings in very good money for CCP each month (especially if they don't try to overreach themselves with new games and unrealistic new ideas) If you make everything easy everywhere for everyone you just end up with bland shallow rubbish. EVE should stay like it is (well personally I would change it so there wasn't such a distinction between PvE and PvP so you had less of a player divide (oh and make PvE more like PvP regarding ship fits and the AIs BTW not make PvP easier)) and fill its own niche So - yes get rid of scamming and gankers and the goons and whatever but you will be left, to borrow a cliche, with hello kitty in space in fact the whole 'environment' part of Eve strikes me as far too basic and easy - the Environment as regards the place you get your isk form - for null, low and high should be more dynamic, changing over time ( so people don't fall in ruts or sit on free isk sources ) and require more thought)
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3067	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:33:00 - [6] - Quote Not to drop names or anything, but there is a certain Star Wars-themed MMO that is debuting soon that might be more up your alley if an experience closer to World of Warcraft than EVE Online is what you prefer. There is also a Star Trek-themed MMO, and I am sure if you look that you could find many other examples of the "standard" MMO fare, set in space. What differentiates EVE Online from other MMOs isn't so much that it's set in space, since as I said that niche has been trespassed by other MMOs by now, but that there is a certain type of laissez-faire and dystopian Wild West feel to it that invites you in with promises of the ability to do stuff that matters in the only way that truly can matterGÇöby having a real and lasting effect on other players. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Luh Windan Ancient Motorboats 6	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:34:00 - [7] - Quote Tippia wrote: Not in any mechanical way, no. A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions. ha ha yes - the noob tutorials should pull a fast one on you - get you ganked or something (and then make it better so you don't just get instant unsubscribes but it would set the tone)
Masamune Dekoro School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 23	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:40:00 - [8] - Quote Eve has always and will always cater to a niche playerbase; changing it to appeal to a larger group of players would involve changing many more fundamental mechanics than just scamming or hi-sec ganking. Also, if there were a million subscribers, i'd hardly expect the game to be run on a single shard anymore; which personally is one of the greatest things Eve has going for it.
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 16	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:45:00 - [9] - Quote Masamune Dekoro wrote: Eve has always and will always cater to a niche playerbase; changing it to appeal to a larger group of players would involve changing many more fundamental mechanics than just scamming or hi-sec ganking. Also, if there were a million subscribers, i'd hardly expect the game to be run on a single shard anymore; which personally is one of the greatest things Eve has going for it. It would, but it'd be like STO or AoC; instanced...with maybe 1k per instance, but a Global Chat......oh what fun that would be.... "which instance are you in again?"
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:45:00 - [10] - Quote Masamune Dekoro wrote: Eve has always and will always cater to a niche playerbase; changing it to appeal to a larger group of players would involve changing many more fundamental mechanics than just scamming or hi-sec ganking. Also, if there were a million subscribers, i'd hardly expect the game to be run on a single shard anymore; which personally is one of the greatest things Eve has going for it. Well it was, until its become saturated. Where all the major alliances, know where everything is, where all the moongold is in every system and controls it all. I think thats a major problem.. But i digress.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1362	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:47:00 - [11] - Quote Luh Windan wrote: ha ha yes - the noob tutorials should pull a fast one on you - get you ganked or something (and then make it better so you don't just get instant unsubscribes but it would set the tone) Actually, it's not as strange an idea as it may sound. Planetside GÇö that other PvP MMO that was released around the same time as EVE GÇö did something very similar in its tutorial to teach new players about what to expect and how to handle those situations. CCP have already introduced tutorials that gank the new player, and more of that could certainly be needed. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 169	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:48:00 - [12] - Quote Scamming is a part of our real world. Eve tries to emulate that as much as possible. Start censoring or removing life aspects from Eve and you will end-up with a thinly diluted Sims in space. It will stagnate and die. If CCP stays the present course and the future brings all their promises to fruitition, there is no reason why Eve cannot evolve and keep doing so. In doing so, it will attract more and more players. The long-term effect of CCP bringing Dust the the PS network is that those Dust players will more than likely and invariably, try-out Eve and end-up playing here as well. It's win-win. I do think however that the Eve adverts should "warn" about the realities of life which happen ingame. That, in my opinion, will attract more players as well. Being forewarned, excuses of "I was scammed, I want my money back" will be greatly minimised. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Niko Takahashi Perkone Caldari State 7	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:48:00 - [13] - Quote Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. Kiddies don't like losing No, it doesn't. In fact it helps it. Because after 19, you kind of want to beat the **** outta those kiddies and take their lunch money then hang them up by their underwear on the basketball hoop Agreed Scamming should stay it is actually amusing
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:54:00 - [14] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: Scamming is a part of our real world. Eve tries to emulate that as much as possible. Start censoring or removing life aspects from Eve and you will end-up with a thinly diluted Sims in space. It will stagnate and die. If CCP stays the present course and the future brings all their promises to fruitition, there is no reason why Eve cannot evolve and keep doing so. In doing so, it will attract more and more players. The long-term effect of CCP bringing Dust the the PS network is that those Dust players will more than likely and invariably, try-out Eve and end-up playing here as well. It's win-win. I do think however that the Eve adverts should "warn" about the realities of life which happen ingame. That, in my opinion, will attract more players as well. Being forewarned, excuses of "I was scammed, I want my money back" will be greatly minimised. I do agree, and the same with Tippia, offering more ingame ecducation or simulations rather than change the game would help dramatically.
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 897	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:56:00 - [15] - Quote Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Stella Dust Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:57:00 - [16] - Quote I think scamming is less destructive than ganking as far as keeping people is concerned. Ganking for the sake of ganking (just for kicks) that is, not the organised ganking of a freighter.
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:58:00 - [17] - Quote Niko Takahashi wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. Kiddies don't like losing No, it doesn't. In fact it helps it. Because after 19, you kind of want to beat the **** outta those kiddies and take their lunch money then hang them up by their underwear on the basketball hoop Agreed Scamming should stay it is actually amusing But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership Whats that -ú300 roughly? thats pretty much someones money you are stealing, and alot of money to spend on a game. They aint gonna be too happy especially when they can do nothing about it. Even worse when CCP says oh well tough. Not really what you want to hear when you effectively had had -ú300 stolen is it?
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 45	Posted - 2011.11.10 10:59:00 - [18] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. Why do you always have to post crap? We having actually a decent discussion here, and idiots like you have to troll. Reported..
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 897	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:01:00 - [19] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership Whats that -ú300 roughly? Anybody spending real money for supercaps deserves to be scammed. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 897	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:01:00 - [20] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. Why do you always have to post crap? We having actually a decent discussion here, and idiots like you have to troll. Reported.. I think you just proved my point. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 16	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:02:00 - [21] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: Scamming is a part of our real world. Eve tries to emulate that as much as possible. Start censoring or removing life aspects from Eve and you will end-up with a thinly diluted Sims in space. It will stagnate and die. If CCP stays the present course and the future brings all their promises to fruitition, there is no reason why Eve cannot evolve and keep doing so. In doing so, it will attract more and more players. The long-term effect of CCP bringing Dust the the PS network is that those Dust players will more than likely and invariably, try-out Eve and end-up playing here as well. It's win-win. I do think however that the Eve adverts should "warn" about the realities of life which happen ingame. That, in my opinion, will attract more players as well. Being forewarned, excuses of "I was scammed, I want my money back" will be greatly minimised. Actually, in the real world many places have laws against scamming. This is where the concept of "game must be fair" comes from. [ rant ] Also, about the DUST...** Dust and ** CCP for being stupid; I wanted to play DUST along with EVE. Put a long-queue skill up and jump planetside (pun unintended) to pass the time. [ /rant ] All the trailers I've watched, pretty much all of them, EVE isn't portrayed in any light other than Hostile. Honestly, a great way to fix the issue is simple. A test. At character creation. "Are you allowed to scam players using in-game methods?" If you answer "No" you are forbidden from: a) making a character for 14days b) using same email to make another account (see 'a' for time limit) c) coming on the forums to complain you got scammed (actionable by a 3 day account suspension)
Stella Dust Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:05:00 - [22] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: Niko Takahashi wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. Kiddies don't like losing No, it doesn't. In fact it helps it. Because after 19, you kind of want to beat the **** outta those kiddies and take their lunch money then hang them up by their underwear on the basketball hoop Agreed Scamming should stay it is actually amusing But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership Whats that -ú300 roughly? thats pretty much someones money you are stealing, and alot of money to spend on a game. They aint gonna be too happy especially when they can do nothing about it. Even worse when CCP says oh well tough. Not really what you want to hear when you effectively had had -ú300 stolen is it? If they can afford to spend -ú300 on a few pixels then the chances are they can afford to lose it too, afterall they've already thrown -ú300 away on pixels that they don't even own.
Mr Kidd Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 143	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:06:00 - [23] - Quote Scamming is the past, present and future of Eve. Noone earns buttloads of money ingame or in RL. Vast fortunes are made. Either they're directly stolen or on the backs of others. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX!
Luh Windan Ancient Motorboats 6	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:06:00 - [24] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership Whats that -ú300 roughly? thats pretty much someones money you are stealing, and alot of money to spend on a game. They aint gonna be too happy especially when they can do nothing about it. Even worse when CCP says oh well tough. Not really what you want to hear when you effectively had had -ú300 stolen is it? perhaps you have hit the nail on the head there. If you think about your game time in terms of real life money/plex etc then yes it's going to be a big deal and quite obviously some people do. For others, like myself, I pay my subscription and my playtime is just an escape from the stresses and pressures of real life, if I mess up (and I do) then while its a pain in the you know what, I know that is because I took a risk. If I'm buying a big new boat I try to be able to afford at least two before buying one for instance. I'm afraid I don't have an answer as to how to balance that - but i can see from what you say that quite clear for some people the score is: 'that's life live with it" and for others it's "that represents a considerable investment for me"
thekiller2002us Order of Celestial Knights Galactic System Lords Alliance 27	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:10:00 - [25] - Quote Hi i'm a university student studying sociology and i'm doing my project on samming in eve- I have gathered a lot of evidence to suggest that scamming is in fact damaging the future of eve and i can send you the results and evidence and i can send you this evidence and research in game- just send me 3bil for this extensive research
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3070	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:12:00 - [26] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. My posting is killing the future of posts. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 899	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:14:00 - [27] - Quote Lyris Nairn wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. My posting is killing the future of posts. The OP doesn't like posts about posting. Hopefully he doesn't report you too. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 48	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:15:00 - [28] - Quote I dun have me a dilemma. I crave the gameplay of gosu pixiedust wonderhaven MMORPGs like a self-help book enthusiast craves the satisfying taste of savory White Castle sliders, but I'm also very fond of them science-fictions with the spaceboats and the laserbeams. A banner ad on the website I buy my Kinah at mentioned this "EVE Onlines" thing, and I gave it a try, but the sociopathic tendencies exhibited by its player base, most likely consisting of autistic high schoolers and recently laid-off postal workers, doesn't sit right with my proper Christian sense of morality. I think my best course of action is to inform the developers of their little oversight, so that they may scrub this game of its malevolent influences and reconstitute it as the wonderful source of wholesome family entertainment it was surely intended to be.
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 169	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:18:00 - [29] - Quote Lyris Nairn wrote: My posting is killing the future of posts. I like that self-immolation Dyner wrote: I wanted to play DUST along with EVE. Put a long-queue skill up and jump planetside (pun unintended) to pass the time. Me too. I guess as an optimist I will wait for the day when CCP shoot the Dust code over to the PC Platform. However, before that happens, I intend to taste Dust on my PS3. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Sicex 2	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:19:00 - [30] - Quote So there isn't allowed to be any game like EVE on the market? MMOs simply are not allowed to allow scamming... EVE is a niche game, for a niche market... the mechanics of the game alone point to the idea that we (the devs and the community) don't WANT the type of player that would spend money and buy super caps without experience and think they can simply quick-sale their way to the top. EVE doesn't need anymore of those than we already have. Let EVE be special, please.
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3070	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:27:00 - [31] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Big Bad Mofo wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. Why do you always have to post crap? We having actually a decent discussion here, and idiots like you have to troll. Reported.. I think you just proved my point. Big Bad MofoGÇö What my esteemed colleague was trying to convey to you in as elegant form as possible was that the future of EVE is being negatively impacted by the poor quality of posting culture on the official forums which takes many different forms to include but not limited to the sort of inane drivel we presently see before us in the form of an Internet slap-fight between yourself, Ladie Harlot, and possibly myself (though I would kindly appreciate it if you would keep me out of the scuffle). He further expresses, in his response to your post, that the slap-fight itself is more damaging to the coherence of the thread than the single drive-by post which spawned it. This is because while a single post might have irked you or some other reader, it is just a few words and by itself it is easily skimmed past and forgotten once the meat of the discussion is located in some other post. But it stops being white noise once you decide to say something about it, becoming instead its own competing message to that of the thread's nominal and intended topic. This is exacerbated each time someone else, such as myself, adds to the sidebar discussion. In forum posting circles, this is what we call a "derail," and it is usually not encouraged; but, like you did before me I felt that adding my two cents was important enough to sidestep this little bit of decorum so that I could type some words at someone whom I felt had erred. I have no doubt someone elseGÇöperhaps even yourselfGÇöwill find this post and read it at least partially because of its length; and, perhaps, that person will chime in about how the thread is becoming even further derailed despite the fact than in so doing they are in fact contributing to that derail. I do not say this to be malicious, to mock you, or to intentionally derail this thread any more than it is. I want this thread to get back onto the topic of scams, because this is one of the defining features of this particular MMO and part of what makes it a niche market; but, I do also want you to realize two things: first, that you exacerbated the situation when you could have simply let that which does not matter truly slide; second, that you have the ability to look beyond your first impulse to jot down an angry reply and instead respond with something constructive and relevant to the topic. And this leads me directly to my point: scamming is a major part of EVE Online. Whomsoever may be reading this post, be you one of the persons I quoted, a random player or a CCP employee, I think the biggest thing to take away from this thread is that a lot of people have a lot of opinions about this game, about what it means to them, and about how it should or should not be run and what content should or should not be available. Something that I notice frequently among almost all such discourse is the manner in which tensions and tempers tend to ignite and positions tend to be drawn into artificial polarities when no such extremes naturally exist. Like any other community, and like any other product, EVE Online will evolve with time. What you or I like about this game need not be the same, and while we may be opponents trying to outwit each other in-game we can still be civil on the forums and talk about the particular aspects of the game that are important to us with a degree of respect and humility that facilitates meaningful communication. No good comes from blindly shutting out the opinions of those who do not agree with us; instead, we must learn to acknowledge and accept the possibility that our detractors, even if we do not understand them or their reasoning, are every bit as entitled to their opinions as we are and that their opinions on particular issues likely make just as much sense to them as ours make to us. The trick then becomes building a coherent bridge between the competing ideals so that we can each expand our perspective to encompass the other's; then, and only then, can we really share ideas in a meaningful and productive way. And now ladies and gentlemen we are back on-topic: Scamming in EVE Online. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3070	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:31:00 - [32] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Lyris Nairn wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: Bad posting is killing the future of Eve. My posting is killing the future of posts. The OP doesn't like posts about posting. Hopefully he doesn't report you too. That is really sad, considering that he way we post is very relevant to not just this topic but to most others. In any discussion where there are divergent viewpointsGÇöwhich is to say pretty much any discussion about anything anywhereGÇöcare needs to be afforded not just to what is said but to how it is said and to whom, otherwise one gets not so much a useful post but just a jumble of aborted information that may as well not have been communicated. I agree wholeheartedly with your statement that bad posts can kill any discussion, but I suppose that our friend did not "get" what you meant by that. Hopefully the post that I made in response to his angry reply to you illustrates my point sufficiently that he will understand; otherwise, eh, what do you do, I suppose. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:37:00 - [33] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: (...) For example that newbiw whose took months, mining, mission and ratting to get that shiny new raven (bearing in mind he still cant really fly it) and along come some high sec gankers and poof its gone all the hard work gone. Back to square one. (...) Pilots should learn from as young an age as possible: 1. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose 2. Don't put all your eggs in one basket 3. Don't get emotionally attached to ships And EVE just wouldn't be the same if there wasn't that ever present threat that someone can shoot you, no matter where you are or what ship you're in. As for scamming: a fool and his money are easily parted, don't trust anyone, etc.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 1046	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:37:00 - [34] - Quote Tippia wrote: Not in any mechanical way, no. A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions. This basically. Some of the greatest news stories about EVE involve scams of one sort or another. Whilst people who can't accept responsibility for their own mistakes and/or can't be bothered to read before clicking accept might be deterred, I am happy that EVE is not worse off for losing these people. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Samillian Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos 23	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:39:00 - [35] - Quote While I agree up to a point that new players should have more education in the realities of EvE I can't help but feel that anyone who starts playing this game and hasn't done a little research into it is asking for what ever happens to them. I remember that it was the stories I read of what could happen that attracted me to this game. If you make EvE safer / easier in pursuit of a massively expanded player base you are not really doing those new players a favour but eroding the essential dark heart of the EvE experience and destroying the very thing that is the major appeal of this game.
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3075	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:40:00 - [36] - Quote Do you have something against newbies? Don't tell people not to be trusting! If people stop being easy scam victims, then how are all those eager youngsters going to pay for converting their trial accounts into full subscriptions? We just started up a recruitment drive on Something Awful, and if suddenly everyone starts behaving responsibly we are going to have a lot of poor and starving newbies wondering why they were lied to when we promised them a game full of ample opportunities to live off of the sweat of someone else's work. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 170	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:40:00 - [37] - Quote Lyris Nairn, your signature is well-earned, especially this part :- "Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM" Very decent posting indeed. Clear, informative and non-emotional. Please marry me The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3075	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:41:00 - [38] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: Lyris Nairn, your signature is well-earned, especially this part :- "Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM" Very decent posting indeed. Clear, informative and non-emotional. Please marry me I'm flattered! Please do a forum search for my name, and shine your "likes" down a few hundred of my posts. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 46	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:46:00 - [39] - Quote Samillian wrote: While I agree up to a point that new players should have more education in the realities of EvE I can't help but feel that anyone who starts playing this game and hasn't done a little research into it is asking for what ever happens to them. I remember that it was the stories I read of what could happen that attracted me to this game. If you make EvE safer / easier in pursuit of a massively expanded player base you are not really doing those new players a favour but eroding the essential dark heart of the EvE experience and destroying the very thing that is the major appeal of this game. Do you really spend time researching how a players are etc in a game before playing it? really?
Hauling Hal The Black Ops 7	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:47:00 - [40] - Quote Scamming only becomes a problem if it starts to affect CCP's ability to keep the game profitable. Until then, I'm happy to double your ISK, sell you a faction Raven or rent you space in 0.0...
Stella Dust Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:50:00 - [41] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: Samillian wrote: While I agree up to a point that new players should have more education in the realities of EvE I can't help but feel that anyone who starts playing this game and hasn't done a little research into it is asking for what ever happens to them. I remember that it was the stories I read of what could happen that attracted me to this game. If you make EvE safer / easier in pursuit of a massively expanded player base you are not really doing those new players a favour but eroding the essential dark heart of the EvE experience and destroying the very thing that is the major appeal of this game. Do you really spend time researching how a players are etc in a game before playing it? really? Most people do a limited amount of research with MMOs, even if it's just looking on the forums. What would these forums tell you? On a positive note: Just got a copy of Skyrim, seems the post was early.
Jenshae Chiroptera 154	Posted - 2011.11.10 11:52:00 - [42] - Quote Tippia wrote: Not in any mechanical way, no. A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions. Tipsy is coming out of the zealous fervour and being rational again? Whew! Ideas & stuff No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Samillian Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos 23	Posted - 2011.11.10 12:00:00 - [43] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: Samillian wrote: While I agree up to a point that new players should have more education in the realities of EvE I can't help but feel that anyone who starts playing this game and hasn't done a little research into it is asking for what ever happens to them. I remember that it was the stories I read of what could happen that attracted me to this game. If you make EvE safer / easier in pursuit of a massively expanded player base you are not really doing those new players a favour but eroding the essential dark heart of the EvE experience and destroying the very thing that is the major appeal of this game. Do you really spend time researching how a players are etc in a game before playing it? really? Yes. I spend at least half an hour if not more Googling and reading about anything I'm likely to spend any real money on which does funnily enough include the price of a subscription for a MMO, I also make use of the free trial periods amazingly enough to find out what the games like. No point throwing money away on something that you probably aren't going to like.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1369	Posted - 2011.11.10 12:56:00 - [44] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Tippia wrote: Not in any mechanical way, no. A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions. Tipsy is coming out of the zealous fervour and being rational again? Whew! The genocidal chiropractor in GÇ£haven't read/understood what has been writtenGÇ¥ shocker! Film at 11. No, waitGÇª that's not nice. After all, what I said there is exactly the same thing as I have said about pretty much everything else. So if you now want to call it GÇ£rationalGÇ¥ rather than whatever you called it before, then that's fine by me. I'm just a bit dismayed by the fact that you apparently haven't noticed what I'm saying until now. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Alpheias Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 152	Posted - 2011.11.10 13:00:00 - [45] - Quote Tippia wrote: No, waitGÇª that's not nice. I like this change about you. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more
Stella Dust Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.11.10 13:00:00 - [46] - Quote Tippia wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Tippia wrote: Not in any mechanical way, no. A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions. Tipsy is coming out of the zealous fervour and being rational again? Whew! The genocidal chiropractor in GÇ£haven't read/understood what has been writtenGÇ¥ shocker! Film at 11. No, waitGÇª that's not nice. After all, what I said there is exactly the same thing as I have said about pretty much everything else. So if you now want to call it GÇ£rationalGÇ¥ rather than whatever you called it before, then that's fine by me. I'm just a bit dismayed by the fact that you apparently haven't noticed what I'm saying until now. Think he means that the old Tippia used to be seen to have a balanced view (regardless of personal view) which over the last few weeks at least seem all one sided.
WhyTry1 Ministry of War Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2011.11.10 21:15:00 - [47] - Quote Hauling Hal wrote: Scamming only becomes a problem if it starts to affect CCP's ability to keep the game profitable. Until then, I'm happy to double your ISK, sell you a faction Raven or rent you space in 0.0... It seems the decline has already started then
Large Collidable Object morons. 553	Posted - 2011.11.10 21:26:00 - [48] - Quote The only things allowing for successfull scams is the players own greed and stupidity. It's not the scammer who's 'bad', but the victim. I don't see any reason why CCP should implement mechanics to save players from their own greed and stupidity. morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding!
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 246	Posted - 2011.11.10 22:04:00 - [49] - Quote I second the need for the tutorial to betray a player to teach players that this a harsh universe and trust is a rare and valuable commodity Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Sentient Blade Walk It Off Coalition of the Unfortunate 73	Posted - 2011.11.10 22:10:00 - [50] - Quote Scamming is made worse by the availability of completely untraceable alt characters that can have no consequences delivered upon their owners. In the real world if you get scammed you at least have some opportunity to track that person down an exact compensation or vengeance. The person who did the scam may have used an alias but they still exist somewhere, there is a path at some point. Not in EvE. You can scam, biomass the character, no possible way of tracing it.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us 33	Posted - 2011.11.10 22:22:00 - [51] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: Do we need to stop spamming? or at least have measures in place to protect players to some extent? Yes, the spamming needs to end. Ok, jokes aside. Part of the problem is, how are you going to stop scamming? What is a scam, and what is not? If I buy a shuttle priced at 8mil, was I just scammed? Or did I buy it because I needed a ship for transport and the only thing available in that system was a 8mil isk? The question becomes, where do you draw the line? I mean, sure, flogging off a carbon as a charon could certainly be deemed as a scam. But the old Navy mega only 200mil isk (2b if you read the contract)... it's overpriced, sure. But it was a Navy mega, right? My biggest gripe with scamming and scammers is the constant spamming of useless contracts. Oh, and I really hate the people who try to scam you with the direct trade thingy. That's so lame. I think the best thing is to try and educate people. Put it in huge f-off letter in the tutorial: EVE HAZ FRIGGIN SCAMMING, READ TEH FRIGGIN COTRACT BEFORE ACCEPTING, kthnksbai. Make a mission that involves choosing one out of five contracts, and make sure one of them is a scam. If they fail the the test, remove all their isk from their walled and put massive letters on the screen reading: YOU ARE DUMB! TRY AGAIN! NEXT TIME IT'S GAME OVER PAL! Give them back the cash, but make sure they've understood what that was all about. Maybe some sort of test. Like you're not allowed undock before you manage to complete the mission. And when they finally finish the mission, yet another set of letters: TRUST NO ONE! NOT EVEN YO MAMA, OR YOURSELF! IN EVE, YOU AIN'T GOT NO FRIENDS. That sort of thing might help people avoid getting scammed. For the record, I've never gotten scammed. There was this one time I thought I was gonna get scammed, but they were really nice pirates and took my isk and let me mission under their protection for three hours. Lucky me! Have you noticed how some ships are actually blue? Weird isn't it?
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3135	Posted - 2011.11.10 22:23:00 - [52] - Quote Not meaning to be your personal rain cloud, Sentient Blade, but in real life a lot of things that would be called "scams" by the average person are perfectly legitimate business practices tucked neatly away into the fine print of contracts no one ever bothers to read before signing; moreover, a person with a little bit of affluence, and thereby someone whom we can assume has the means to be internationally mobile, has very little to worry about with regards to being tracked down by some angry person even if that person manages to unerringly trace the source of his troubles to its actual originator. Scenes like the one in Saw where the insurance agent gets tracked down and tortured don't happen. In real life we hide behind corporations, organisations and other degrees of obfuscation to insulate us from the consequences of our actions in a manner not at all dissimilar from the actions taken by scammers in EVE Online to avoid future contact with previous victims. What do you think would happen if you found yourself on the losing end of a business deal? You wouldn't track down the slick lawyer or executive who just ruined your dreams and beat him to death (unless you're some kind of psychotic murderer), or anything like people say they want to do to people who scam them in EVE Online. You would take it, perhaps become depressed about it, and do nothing to the man, the team, the company, the corporation, or the conglomeration that just brought your world crashing down around you. And if you tried to do anything about it, then there are security guards, secretaries and policemen in your way to block physical and communicated violence towards them. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
ShipToaster Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2011.11.10 22:37:00 - [53] - Quote Does the htfu EVE of old still exist? Recently we seem to have moved toward a different vision of EVE where everything that made EVE unique has been getting removed. I expect scamming to be removed or nerfed somehow.
Destru Kaneda CTRL-Q 3	Posted - 2011.11.10 22:41:00 - [54] - Quote In a word, no. Music for robots, hackers, pirates, geeks and miscellaneous nerds.
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2011.11.10 23:13:00 - [55] - Quote Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722 My stance on WiS
Krios Ahzek Juvenis Iratus 90	Posted - 2011.11.10 23:52:00 - [56] - Quote Diosas wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. is there evidence of this? or just assumptions? I read that story about the Great Scam years ago and it was the memory of it, coupled with the few news stories of similar events on gaming sites and forums, that made me install this game and subscribe for 12 months in a blind leap of faith. Let the galaxy burn.
Crystal Liche ACME Mineral and Gas 24	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:13:00 - [57] - Quote Scamming has to be part of EVE, for reasons probably explained already. But I do think that certain scames harm EVE a lot and that CCP should put a stop to it. Like Corp recruiting scams. This pretty much makes the new recruiting tool pointless for anything but high sec. Because so much of EVE is dependent on being in a good corp this pretty much undermines the game for many new players. The contract scams and the links in the high traffic area chats make the game feel like a web site with 20 popups. I feel like I need to update my anti virus software before I go to Jita and wash my hands after. The stuff going on there is no-class trash that only serves to make the game feel trashy.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 110	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:18:00 - [58] - Quote I can't think of a way that scamming is keeping the playerbase small. Anyone can get scammed in any game if they are weak enough to have said weaknesses exploited. I think it's the noise that scammers/griefers/whatever make about their "success" that makes people feel like they have to be a masochist to play this game.
Paragon Renegade The Multinational Company. 80	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:21:00 - [59] - Quote Anybody who falls for a scam in Jita, "Invests" in a corp or "Is recruited by" Goonswarm, they deserve to lose everything and die a horrible death "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 28	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:24:00 - [60] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. Doesn't bring in as many as it deters. BTW: I play this game because I don't like hand-holding. I don't like being 'safe'. AND I DON'T LIKE WHINY BRATS COMING IN THE GAME GOING "WAAAAH, IT'S TO HARD!"
Crystal Liche ACME Mineral and Gas 25	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:30:00 - [61] - Quote Paragon Renegade wrote: Anybody who falls for a scam in Jita, "Invests" in a corp or "Is recruited by" Goonswarm, they deserve to lose everything and die a horrible death It is not about falling for them, it is the trashy impression they give of the game. Put aside your macho self serving attitude and keep in mind this game has to compete in the real world for paying customers, if it can't it will close. I'd love to see the new player retention numbers, I'll bet it is really bad. New players in this game are basically a commodity that vets feed on.
Paragon Renegade The Multinational Company. 81	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:34:00 - [62] - Quote Crystal Liche wrote: Paragon Renegade wrote: Anybody who falls for a scam in Jita, "Invests" in a corp or "Is recruited by" Goonswarm, they deserve to lose everything and die a horrible death It is not about falling for them, it is the trashy impression they give of the game. Put aside your macho self serving attitude and keep in mind this game has to compete in the real world for paying customers, if it can't it will close. I'd love to see the new player retention numbers, I'll bet it is really bad. New players in this game are basically a commodity that vets feed on. I'm a new player I was bombarded by scams galore Really, if you're that much of an idiot to fall for these obvious scams, I don't think you should've picked up the game to begin with. "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Crystal Liche ACME Mineral and Gas 25	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:36:00 - [63] - Quote Paragon Renegade wrote: Crystal Liche wrote: Paragon Renegade wrote: Anybody who falls for a scam in Jita, "Invests" in a corp or "Is recruited by" Goonswarm, they deserve to lose everything and die a horrible death It is not about falling for them, it is the trashy impression they give of the game. Put aside your macho self serving attitude and keep in mind this game has to compete in the real world for paying customers, if it can't it will close. I'd love to see the new player retention numbers, I'll bet it is really bad. New players in this game are basically a commodity that vets feed on. I'm a new player I was bombarded by scams galore Really, if you're that much of an idiot to fall for these obvious scams, I don't think you should've picked up the game to begin with. Reading comprehension is your friend.
Paragon Renegade The Multinational Company. 81	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:40:00 - [64] - Quote Crystal Liche wrote: Reading comprehension is your friend. Might want to try roll a bit more when dodging those replies. If someone plays this game, doesn't read-up about it, and gets their meta-asses handed to them, so it will be. The main appeal of Eve is how unforgiving & harsh it is; take that away, and you have yet another generic, boring game. "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3194	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:40:00 - [65] - Quote Paragon Renegade wrote: Anybody who falls for a scam in Jita, "Invests" in a corp or "Is recruited by" Goonswarm, they deserve to lose everything and die a horrible death I appreciate the fact that you "like" a lot of my posts, but I do not appreciate the insinuation that Goonswarm is in some way dishonourable or that it is impossible to legitimately join us. Nothing could be further from the truth. Scamming is a very vocal minority among the membership of Goonswarm, because to be quite honest it is an effort-intensive pastime that often does not pay off nearly as well as the celebrated successes would lead one to believe; moreover, recruitment while often a source of scamming marks for unscrupulous people in any sizable entity is also something that we take fairly seriously in Goonfleet and to my knowledge always have. My account here on EVE Online predates my account on Something Awful by a couple of years, and I had no trouble at all joining; there is a random guy who sings songs on YouTube who doesn't even have a Something Awful account who we are actually trying to convince to join Goonswarm just because he'd be amusing to have on Mumble. There are many different examples that I can point to of legitimate recruitment, and all of them share a common theme: those persons were intelligent enough to identify and follow the appropriate procedure for joining the corporation. That procedure is not at all difficult to find, nor is it difficult to follow; yet, there are dozens or perhaps hundreds of people who simply can't figure it out even when it's lain before them in plain English, and they are an endless source of amusement. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Chelone Outside The Asylum 6	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:41:00 - [66] - Quote The future of Eve is to limp along until it's finally bested and run out of the market by a competent replacement. Stopping scamming would keep some players, but it would also lose some players when you take away more of the "harshness" of the game.
Paragon Renegade The Multinational Company. 81	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:43:00 - [67] - Quote Lyris Nairn wrote: I never said it was in any way the norm, and I can appreciate your attempt to repair your corp/alliance's irrepairable reputation, but I honestly laughed-out loud at the recruitment scams "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Crystal Liche ACME Mineral and Gas 25	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:44:00 - [68] - Quote Paragon Renegade wrote: Crystal Liche wrote: Reading comprehension is your friend. Might want to try roll a bit more when dodging those replies. If someone plays this game, doesn't read-up about it, and gets their meta-asses handed to them, so it will be. The main appeal of Eve is how unforgiving & harsh it is; take that away, and you have yet another generic, boring game. You reapeated the same lame macho thing without reading, like I said, reading comprehension...
Paragon Renegade The Multinational Company. 81	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:46:00 - [69] - Quote Crystal Liche wrote: Paragon Renegade wrote: Crystal Liche wrote: Reading comprehension is your friend. Might want to try roll a bit more when dodging those replies. If someone plays this game, doesn't read-up about it, and gets their meta-asses handed to them, so it will be. The main appeal of Eve is how unforgiving & harsh it is; take that away, and you have yet another generic, boring game. You reapeated the same lame macho thing without reading, like I said, reading comprehension... Like I completely neglected to say, idgaf. Scamming is is essentially the embodiment of the game, I'm not being macho, it's just the truth "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2011.11.11 01:54:00 - [70] - Quote Diosas wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. is there evidence of this? or just assumptions? lol youre trolling right? http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/12/biggest-eve-online-scam-ever-recorded-nets-over-a-trillion-isk/ cause things like that, or knowing you CAN, you have the FREEDOM to do things like that in a game is a DRAW not a negative. Might as well ask the same question for espionage. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722 My stance on WiS
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 30	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:00:00 - [71] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Diosas wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. is there evidence of this? or just assumptions? lol youre trolling right? http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/12/biggest-eve-online-scam-ever-recorded-nets-over-a-trillion-isk/ cause things like that, or knowing you CAN, you have the FREEDOM to do things like that in a game is a DRAW not a negative. Might as well ask the same question for espionage. It draws some, but not as many as being carebear [ see WoW ]. Quality > Quantity EVE-style > WoW-style I just hope CCP doesn't decide to change. Not a whole lotta games out there that allow you to **** with people.
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3195	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:04:00 - [72] - Quote Paragon Renegade wrote: Lyris Nairn wrote: I never said it was in any way the norm, and I can appreciate your attempt to repair your corp/alliance's irrepairable reputation, but I honestly laughed-out loud at the recruitment scams You have a pouty face. What can I do to turn that frown upside down? Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:05:00 - [73] - Quote Dyner wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. Doesn't bring in as many as it deters. BTW: I play this game because I don't like hand-holding. I don't like being 'safe'. AND I DON'T LIKE WHINY BRATS COMING IN THE GAME GOING "WAAAAH, IT'S TO HARD!" An I dont like whiny brats coming into the game going "WAAAAAH I DINT LIKE THIS MECHANIC CCP SAVE MEEE!!!!" https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722 My stance on WiS
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:06:00 - [74] - Quote Dyner wrote: It draws some, but not as many as being carebear [ see WoW ]. yeah lets turn EVE into that https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722 My stance on WiS
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 47	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:13:00 - [75] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Diosas wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. is there evidence of this? or just assumptions? lol youre trolling right? http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/12/biggest-eve-online-scam-ever-recorded-nets-over-a-trillion-isk/ cause things like that, or knowing you CAN, you have the FREEDOM to do things like that in a game is a DRAW not a negative. Might as well ask the same question for espionage. Uh-huh .. and that trilion of isk has been scammed from few weeks old character at recruite chanell ? Honestly i dont see reason for or against such rule. It doesnt really matter. Only thing it can provoke is pointless/repetitive work for GMs to sort all those who start playing this game and somehow find out that they have been scamed and its somehow tied to some text nobody ever reads and they can petition it and hope to get other answer than ** happens get over it. HTFU o guess it was or is.. probably wrong thread, got it mixed up.. My apology**
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:14:00 - [76] - Quote Krios Ahzek wrote: Diosas wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. is there evidence of this? or just assumptions? I read that story about the Great Scam years ago and it was the memory of it, coupled with the few news stories of similar events on gaming sites and forums, that made me install this game and subscribe for 12 months in a blind leap of faith. Me too but it was GHSC https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722 My stance on WiS
Maxpie Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations 10	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:34:00 - [77] - Quote Back in the day reputation meant something. Scamming was an interesting aspect of the game. Now, with the proliferation of alts you have every Tom, **** and Harry endlessly doing the same tired old scams. It's not surprising that the game looks like a worthless cesspool to many prospective new players. Make no mistake about it, that is Eve's reputation. I try to explain that there's so much more to the game, but new players just see the garbage and decide the game isn't their cup of tea.
Fix Lag 176	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:36:00 - [78] - Quote Yeah I understand it's hard to sell Eve to your friends when CCP lets it turn into a piece of **** by not releasing an expansion for two years
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 30	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:37:00 - [79] - Quote Maxpie wrote: Back in the day reputation meant something. Scamming was an interesting aspect of the game. Now, with the proliferation of alts you have every Tom, **** and Harry endlessly doing the same tired old scams. It's not surprising that the game looks like a worthless cesspool to many prospective new players. Make no mistake about it, that is Eve's reputation. I try to explain that there's so much more to the game, but new players just see the garbage and decide the game isn't their cup of tea. Can only scam the willing.
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:37:00 - [80] - Quote wait... this is EVE... Its THE leet of the leet hardcore games. I thought we didnt WANT every "Tom **** and Harry" here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722 My stance on WiS
Zions Child Odyssey Inc SpaceMonkey's Alliance 61	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:38:00 - [81] - Quote You know why I didn't read the OP? Because if you think scamming is killing EVE, you're killing EVE. **** off.
Nariya Kentaya Celestial Ascension 63	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:43:00 - [82] - Quote Lyris Nairn wrote: Not to drop names or anything, but there is a certain Star Wars-themed MMO that is debuting soon that might be more up your alley if an experience closer to World of Warcraft than EVE Online is what you prefer. There is also a Star Trek-themed MMO, and I am sure if you look that you could find many other examples of the "standard" MMO fare, set in space. What differentiates EVE Online from other MMOs isn't so much that it's set in space, since as I said that niche has been trespassed by other MMOs by now, but that there is a certain type of laissez-faire and dystopian Wild West feel to it that invites you in with promises of the ability to do stuff that matters in the only way that truly can matterGÇöby having a real and lasting effect on other players. bolded, itlicized, and underlined whats important... if CCP ever makes a second MMO, it should be a firefly MMO.
Keen Fallsword Billionaires Club C0VEN 14	Posted - 2011.11.11 02:48:00 - [83] - Quote Future ? What Future ?
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance 311	Posted - 2011.11.11 03:42:00 - [84] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: [...]very rarely you see point and click games or those adventure games etc all a big thing in the past but not really anymore.[...] Oooohohoho... but i beg to differe... You, kind sir, obvioulsy know nothing about PnC games and their popularity. Rated ARG for Pirates. *** you.*
Krios Ahzek Juvenis Iratus 97	Posted - 2011.11.11 03:51:00 - [85] - Quote Keen Fallsword wrote: Future ? What Future ? The one we're living in right now. Let the galaxy burn.
Gealla Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx 21	Posted - 2011.11.11 03:54:00 - [86] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Diosas wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Dyner wrote: The answer is Yes and No Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential. no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game. is there evidence of this? or just assumptions? lol youre trolling right? http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/12/biggest-eve-online-scam-ever-recorded-nets-over-a-trillion-isk/ cause things like that, or knowing you CAN, you have the FREEDOM to do things like that in a game is a DRAW not a negative. Might as well ask the same question for espionage. A good scam will have more victims than scammers, or else the money just isn't there (obviously excluding 1 on 1 scams) so even though brilliant scams will attract scammers to the game, they will deter a significantly higher number of victims from ever playing (i think this is the point some are trying to make) And yes I think it is assumption based on personal experiences, folks that like to scam probably know and associate with others of the same ilk. Those that don't, won't....personally i've been in different corps with hundreds of different players and only a small % were into scamming in a big way, so there must be something else that attracts people to this game.....
Elise DarkStar DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium 137	Posted - 2011.11.11 04:18:00 - [87] - Quote I will say that over the past month I have noticed a, no hyperbole, shocking amount of people that manage to play this game for a substantial period without understanding some of its defining features like scamming and ganking. I am against changing any mechanics to help better protect people, but perhaps CCP is failing to inform people of some of the aspects of the game they are signing up to play. I fully embrace the darker side of Eve, yet I might be upset if I somehow managed to accumulate something worth losing without understanding that it can be lost. Normally I'd say it's just stupid people being stupid, but the general discourse on the forums lately has made me think that perhaps this is a serious problem with how the game is being marketed now.
Krios Ahzek Juvenis Iratus 97	Posted - 2011.11.11 04:25:00 - [88] - Quote Elise DarkStar wrote: I will say that over the past month I have noticed a, no hyperbole, shocking amount of people that manage to play this game for a substantial period without understanding some of its defining features like scamming and ganking. I am against changing any mechanics to help better protect people, but perhaps CCP is failing to inform people of some of the aspects of the game they are signing up to play. I fully embrace the darker side of Eve, yet I might be upset if I somehow managed to accumulate something worth losing without understanding that it can be lost. Normally I'd say it's just stupid people being stupid, but the general discourse on the forums lately has made me think that perhaps this is a serious problem with how the game is being marketed now. The only way for that to happen is to play EVE as a single player game for years. I have no idea how they manage this. Softly schooling you one post at a time since 2011-10-27
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 432	Posted - 2011.11.11 04:40:00 - [89] - Quote A well executed scam is a thing of beauty. A true artist can pull a perfect scam and write up an entertaining story about it for all to read. Over the years I have enjoyed reading about (and even participating in) some of these masterful feats of legerdemain. On the other hand running a scambot in Jita local is just plain annoying and should be cracked down on. Seriously, there needs to be a line between scamming and sheer stupid pissing people off. It's about the greater good. Sure fleece the stupid. It's how we teach them. But some of you people think you can do any stupid thing you want and it's fine just because. Well it's not fine, imo. Push it and CCP will shut you down. Hard. It's happened before. It's happening now. And it will happen in the future. Stop being so selfish and arrogant and start playing the game like you care about it. Mr Epeen If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet.
Admiral Ripstar Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2011.11.11 04:47:00 - [90] - Quote The solution to all Eve's problems. Make Tranq. like SiSi. We could blow ships up all day. Have epic battles without worry of loss ships or isk. Undock 1000's of Titans just to watch them blow up.
Poetic Stanziel Arrakis Technology 259	Posted - 2011.11.11 04:51:00 - [91] - Quote You, sir, do not deserve the name BIG BAD MOFO. You are anything but, carebear. :) EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic
Krios Ahzek Juvenis Iratus 100	Posted - 2011.11.11 04:52:00 - [92] - Quote Admiral Ripstar wrote: The solution to all Eve's problems. Make Tranq. like SiSi. We could blow ships up all day. Have epic battles without worry of loss ships or isk. Undock 1000's of Titans just to watch them blow up. And consequently, make everything meaningless. Have you never played a single player game with cheat codes on? Softly schooling you one post at a time since 2011-10-27
Shawn Pierce Wandering Incursion Exterminators 6	Posted - 2011.11.11 05:00:00 - [93] - Quote Elise DarkStar wrote: I will say that over the past month I have noticed a, no hyperbole, shocking amount of people that manage to play this game for a substantial period without understanding some of its defining features like scamming and ganking. I am against changing any mechanics to help better protect people, but perhaps CCP is failing to inform people of some of the aspects of the game they are signing up to play. I fully embrace the darker side of Eve, yet I might be upset if I somehow managed to accumulate something worth losing without understanding that it can be lost. Normally I'd say it's just stupid people being stupid, but the general discourse on the forums lately has made me think that perhaps this is a serious problem with how the game is being marketed now. No, it's the general trend of where the real world is going, at least in the US. Everything is being made easier and more convenient. Safer. You don't see metal jungle gyms and swing sets and monkey bars any more -- they're all being made of plastic now. Less injuries that way or something (less lawsuits is my theory, but anyway...). Everybody's metaphorically putting their kids in bubble wrap before sending them out into the real world. Education is going the same way -- high school students are supposed to pass two major tests in order to graduate, and yet they can fail one of them three times and the system will still let them graduate without actually passing that (supposedly required) test. Even if the students pass both tests, they still aren't really equipped for the world that awaits them. Other MMOs are for the bubble-wrapped kiddies. EVE appeals to those who have realized that the rest of life isn't as easy as graduating from high school. I hope it stays that way.
Zagdul Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 81	Posted - 2011.11.11 05:06:00 - [94] - Quote If CCP took steps to protect people from being scammed (more than they already have) by their own stupidity, I think EVE would lose it's player base that keeps people logging in. EVE's allure is primarily based on it's devious nature and high drama. Scamming adds to that drama in such a drastic way that I believe EVE would die faster by keeping scamming in tact. You can chose to be a scammer in EVE or you can chose to follow the path of e-bushido and find ways to white knight the dumb. It's entirely up to you and is why EVE continues to be one of the ONLY MMO's on the market with a steady increase of subs each year. Ruin the sandbox and you ruin the game. In the end, you'll lose more players than you retain. If CCP wants to work on retention, they need to keep developing the new player experience and providing insta-gratification carrots for people with newer accounts. The main thing that keeps people in this game sure aren't the game mechanics... It's seeing a pilot who's been playing for a couple years undock in an awesome ship that puts the sparkle in your eye for something to work towards. This or epic fleet fights or large wars in null sec. Guess who's running much of the scams and those epic fleet fights... the scammers and veterans who came to EVE because it allows for the choice to participate in such behavior. If you make the game less fun for the people who fly the big shinies, you'll have far less player retention than the game has now because newbies will have less to look forward to. It's not Rocket Surgery
Elise DarkStar DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium 137	Posted - 2011.11.11 05:16:00 - [95] - Quote Shawn Pierce wrote: No, it's the general trend of where the real world is going, at least in the US... I do agree. So are you suggesting that the nature of Eve is still bold and obvious, and these people are just willfully ignorant? My suggestion is that perhaps CCP is failing to inform people that they are in fact playing chess when they think they are playing checkers. Edit: I should add that I make a significant effort to not just fall back on "people are stupid", often to the point of a fault. That very well could be the answer and I am once again in denial.
Ptraci 3 R Corporation 100	Posted - 2011.11.11 05:18:00 - [96] - Quote Is scamming the future of EVE? Well if you send me 500 million ISK, I will let you know!
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 31	Posted - 2011.11.11 06:21:00 - [97] - Quote Elise DarkStar wrote: Shawn Pierce wrote: No, it's the general trend of where the real world is going, at least in the US... I do agree. So are you suggesting that the nature of Eve is still bold and obvious, and these people are just willfully ignorant? My suggestion is that perhaps CCP is failing to inform people that they are in fact playing chess when they think they are playing checkers. Edit: I should add that I make a significant effort to not just fall back on "people are stupid", often to the point of a fault. That very well could be the answer and I am once again in denial. Never heard of "Dumbing Down of America"? Pretty sure it's also happening in other countries. Add to that, that everyone born that currently holds the age of at least 13 has been brought up to believe they are special and unique; worse IMPORTANT. So, when someone comes along and dupes you, you end up feeling very....stupid. And immediately fall back on your 'real world' teaching that states "if you are shown to be stupid; use the law". Sadly, there is no law about scamming in EVE (yet). Therefore, you are left with just being stupid. Attention those who are scammed: YOU ARE AN IDIOT. PERIOD. Now, get the **** off my lawn.
Shawn Pierce Wandering Incursion Exterminators 6	Posted - 2011.11.11 10:00:00 - [98] - Quote Elise DarkStar wrote: Shawn Pierce wrote: No, it's the general trend of where the real world is going, at least in the US... I do agree. So are you suggesting that the nature of Eve is still bold and obvious, and these people are just willfully ignorant? My suggestion is that perhaps CCP is failing to inform people that they are in fact playing chess when they think they are playing checkers. Edit: I should add that I make a significant effort to not just fall back on "people are stupid", often to the point of a fault. That very well could be the answer and I am once again in denial. Anyone who has read a review of EVE Online (I for one read the reviews of a game before I play it) should know that nothing is safe in the game. Even the videos that CCP puts out illustrate that not all is good... You warp in on a miner being attacked in a belt. You can: A. Defend the miner from the dastardly criminals and be the hero you always wanted to be. B. Be one of the dastardly criminals (you know you wanna!) and join in the attack. C. Do nothing, and just watch the action. In other words ... willful ignorance? Youbetcherass.
Poetic Stanziel Arrakis Technology 264	Posted - 2011.11.11 10:08:00 - [99] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: Is Scamming Killing The Future Of Eve? No. EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic
Opertone Signal 7 6	Posted - 2011.11.11 10:31:00 - [100] - Quote scamming is not good, does not help MMOs, people who defend scamming are hungry forum trolls - that's all. Scamming has gain such high scale in EVE that it kills fun and the gameplay. You expect asshattory on every corner, backstab and gank in every situation. You may join a new corp and they destroy your assets, you engage in 0.0 combat only to find that enemy has spies, makes lag and uses crappy cheats/metagaming methods to win it. Challenge is fine, but scamming is foul. I've played more online games (hours) than you may think, yet in every game you get cheating, whoring and bullying... No matter what you do, they want to ruin your day. You get sad or frustrated, it doesn't enhance the gaming experience. Unfair play, scamming and cheating ruins eve for me, and I grow more certain that asshatory continues to kill the game that I play.
MaiLina KaTar Katar Corp 22	Posted - 2011.11.11 10:32:00 - [101] - Quote Elise DarkStar wrote: I will say that over the past month I have noticed a, no hyperbole, shocking amount of people that manage to play this game for a substantial period without understanding some of its defining features like scamming... It's not that shocking, actually. Eve's target audience isn't comprised of paranoid, angry nerds exclusively. You do get the occasional normal person, odd as it may seem.
Opertone Signal 7 6	Posted - 2011.11.11 10:37:00 - [102] - Quote Maxpie wrote: Back in the day reputation meant something. Scamming was an interesting aspect of the game. Now, with the proliferation of alts you have every Tom, **** and Harry endlessly doing the same tired old scams. It's not surprising that the game looks like a worthless cesspool to many prospective new players. Make no mistake about it, that is Eve's reputation. I try to explain that there's so much more to the game, but new players just see the garbage and decide the game isn't their cup of tea. Some of it is true. every Tom and Harry try to ruin your day, the scams are old. Eve has reputation of maximum scamming, agreed. Too much scamming make it boring, vets have some immunity to scams, but the whole place turns into trash.
baltec1 183	Posted - 2011.11.11 10:45:00 - [103] - Quote What the hell is up with all of these whine topics/posts from spineless bears who want to change everything that makes eve special?
Lyris Nairn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3323	Posted - 2011.11.11 11:22:00 - [104] - Quote Let's all be civil guys. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM Theta Squad : Best Squad
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 389	Posted - 2011.11.11 11:25:00 - [105] - Quote When the first ponzi schemes collapsed in the Summer of 2003, around the time that people were selling shuttles for 10M ISK each, people asked if scamming was killing the future of Eve. It wasn't then, and it isn't now. Do I approve of scamming? No. Do I think that scamming should be banned? No. Because when you remove the opportunity to be dishonest, you also remove the opportunity to be honest. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Diosas Comply Or Die The 0rphanage 0	Posted - 2011.11.11 12:04:00 - [106] - Quote baltec1 wrote: What the hell is up with all of these whine topics/posts from spineless bears who want to change everything that makes eve special? Theres always one, who thinks having a discussion is a whine...
Maxpie Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations 11	Posted - 2011.11.11 12:17:00 - [107] - Quote Dyner wrote: Maxpie wrote: Back in the day reputation meant something. Scamming was an interesting aspect of the game. Now, with the proliferation of alts you have every Tom, **** and Harry endlessly doing the same tired old scams. It's not surprising that the game looks like a worthless cesspool to many prospective new players. Make no mistake about it, that is Eve's reputation. I try to explain that there's so much more to the game, but new players just see the garbage and decide the game isn't their cup of tea. Can only scam the willing. You mis-understand what I'm saying. People aren't willing to even play Eve. It is viewed as a griefer game where a new player can never compete with a veteran. I've tried to get friends to play, but all they see are tons of scams, cans labeled 'free stuff' etc., and they decide they don't like this game before they get to see the other side of it. As a veteran player, I love to see a good scam. Unfortunately, those are few and far between. The vast majority are lazy spam type scams. Basically people hoping to catch someone who mis-read a contract or are new to the game. Sorry, I just don't find that to be compelling gameplay. It's just annoying graffiti to me.
BrundleMeth Temporal Mechanics 1	Posted - 2011.11.11 15:19:00 - [108] - Quote Two months ago, a guy I barely knew gave me a Billion ISK and a fully fit Tengu. He was packing it in simply for the reason CCP allows scamming. I told him he should simply stay but he wasn't interested anymore...
MaiLina KaTar Katar Corp 23	Posted - 2011.11.11 15:22:00 - [109] - Quote BrundleMeth wrote: Two months ago, a guy I barely knew gave me a Billion ISK and a fully fit Tengu. He was packing it in simply for the reason CCP allows scamming. I told him he should simply stay but he wasn't interested anymore... Does he enjoy music by Evanescence or Tokio Hotel by any chance?
Mohr Cowbell Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 148	Posted - 2011.11.12 02:53:00 - [110] - Quote baltec1 wrote: What the hell is up with all of these whine topics/posts from spineless bears who want to change everything that makes eve special? For your information, I am a cougar. A cougar that likes pancakes.

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