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Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think it's a bad idea to have it impossible for battleships to track and shot any vessel within 10km. It's just unrealistic that a small ship can destroy a battleship and it's annoying on missions. At least it should be possible to fit a short range gun for short range. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
it is for game balance
and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.
b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough? |
Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
unidenify wrote:it is for game balance
and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.
b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough?
I am suggesting you could fit a special gun or missle launcher that could attack frigates close range, but otherwise are more or less useless. Drones don't work well enough, they can be lured away and picked off, besides in a drones even the heavy attack ones at max skill have a lousy shielding. I don't see why there should be a balance issue between cheap frigates with zero skill and a battleship with lots of skill and ISK. It shouldn't be that way. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Freiday wrote:unidenify wrote:it is for game balance
and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.
b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough? I am suggesting you could fit a special gun or missle launcher that could attack frigates close range, but otherwise are more or less useless. Drones don't work well enough, they can be lured away and picked off, besides in a drones even the heavy attack ones at max skill have a lousy shielding. I don't see why there should be a balance issue between cheap frigates with zero skill and a battleship with lots of skill and ISK. It shouldn't be that way.
same logic can be used on capital ship as they require much more skills and isk, but yet CPP balance them so they can't dominate against sub-capital ships easy
(Phoenix, Caldari Dreadnought, can't even kill sub-capital ships without support due to very terrible damage application) |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
10327
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Megathron with blasters, webs, tracking computer, Heavy neut and warrior IIs.
What frigate? Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
226
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
you could fit a smaller gun, but that would sacrifice a larger gun. also the rapid launchers are capable somewhat, dont expect any ceptors to die easy though. unless you want both in which case no thank you. you either specialize or diversify. |
Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
2
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
As titans don't do missions or fly alone I don't think the comparisson is valid. |
Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
2
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rowells wrote:you could fit a smaller gun, but that would sacrifice a larger gun. also the rapid launchers are capable somewhat, dont expect any ceptors to die easy though. unless you want both in which case no thank you. you either specialize or diversify.
I don't think you can fit a smaller gun on a battleship ... it should be possible. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2014.02.18 22:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Freiday wrote:Rowells wrote:you could fit a smaller gun, but that would sacrifice a larger gun. also the rapid launchers are capable somewhat, dont expect any ceptors to die easy though. unless you want both in which case no thank you. you either specialize or diversify. I don't think you can fit a smaller gun on a battleship ... it should be possible.
you can fit, nothing stop you.
one strange npc corp chat where I joke about put Rapid Heavy on Phoenix to make it viable for L5 mission.
thanks god that I am poor and low skill that it never come to life. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2475
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Posted - 2014.02.18 22:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Freiday wrote:Rowells wrote:you could fit a smaller gun, but that would sacrifice a larger gun. also the rapid launchers are capable somewhat, dont expect any ceptors to die easy though. unless you want both in which case no thank you. you either specialize or diversify. I don't think you can fit a smaller gun on a battleship ... it should be possible.
It IS possible. Just unfit one of your large guns.
or pack some drones like a normal person if bringing support is too hard for you. |
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Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
2
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Posted - 2014.02.18 22:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Real life battleships would not be bothered by small boats , and real life large combat ships also of course have smaller guns. There should be a side-gun especially for dealing with the frigate - battleship imbalance. It's just too nonsensical that a single frigate can defeat a battelship in combat. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1097
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 22:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
is this an army of alts putting all this crap up?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322607
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=321843&find=unread
big ships dnt hit small ships because they are too small and fast. this is because of balance. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
121
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Posted - 2014.02.18 22:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Freiday wrote:I think it's a bad idea to have it impossible for battleships to track and shot any vessel within 10km. It's just unrealistic that a small ship can destroy a battleship and it's annoying on missions. At least it should be possible to fit a short range gun for short range.
so you think that the huge guns on a battle ship should be able to follow (because that is what tracking is) a small fast moving ship and blow it out of the sky from 10Km with sniper precision?
talking about unrealistic! FIX FORUMS |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1097
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 22:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Freiday wrote:Real life battleships would not be bothered by small boats , and real life large combat ships also of course have smaller guns. There should be a side-gun especially for dealing with the frigate - battleship imbalance. It's just too nonsensical that a single frigate can defeat a battelship in combat.
but RL battleships were bothered by fighters and bombers. its basically what lead to air craft carriers obsoleting battleships.
no there should not be a side gun. u should learn2eve
if u want to take out frigs in close proximity, use drones or smart bombs EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
539
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Posted - 2014.02.18 22:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Freiday wrote:unidenify wrote:it is for game balance
and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.
b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough? I am suggesting you could fit a special gun or missle launcher that could attack frigates close range, but otherwise are more or less useless. Drones don't work well enough, they can be lured away and picked off, besides in a drones even the heavy attack ones at max skill have a lousy shielding. I don't see why there should be a balance issue between cheap frigates with zero skill and a battleship with lots of skill and ISK. It shouldn't be that way.
You can. Nothing says you have to fit large weapons on your BS. We even have Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers now. I hear precision heavies are pretty good vs frigates. I know T1 cruise missiles are.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
5
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Posted - 2014.02.19 15:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
No, I haven't even read those threads. But if people are voicing to point, maybe it is a common issue. |
Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
5
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Posted - 2014.02.19 15:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
The balance issue comes down to the fairness of being rewarded for skill time spent and not only ISK and game time to earn that isk spent. That a 30 day account should be able to take down a 6 month skill set is not balance, it's just unfair. |
Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 15:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Freiday wrote:I think it's a bad idea to have it impossible for battleships to track and shot any vessel within 10km. It's just unrealistic that a small ship can destroy a battleship and it's annoying on missions. At least it should be possible to fit a short range gun for short range. so you think that the huge guns on a battle ship should be able to follow (because that is what tracking is) a small fast moving ship and blow it out of the sky from 10Km with sniper precision? talking about unrealistic!
I think 10km is a pretty long distance even for 800mm guns. |
Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
5
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Posted - 2014.02.19 15:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Freiday wrote:unidenify wrote:it is for game balance
and, this is why you need to train to have basic drone skill. Because you suppose to use drone to kill frigates.
b/w wtf with this statement "fit a short range for short range" are you suggest current short range weapon is not short enough? I am suggesting you could fit a special gun or missle launcher that could attack frigates close range, but otherwise are more or less useless. Drones don't work well enough, they can be lured away and picked off, besides in a drones even the heavy attack ones at max skill have a lousy shielding. I don't see why there should be a balance issue between cheap frigates with zero skill and a battleship with lots of skill and ISK. It shouldn't be that way. You can. Nothing says you have to fit large weapons on your BS. We even have Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers now. I hear precision heavies are pretty good vs frigates. I know T1 cruise missiles are.
That's a point, and if the RHML actually work at distances of 1km - 250m then I withdraw my sugestion. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1097
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 15:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Freiday wrote:The balance issue comes down to the fairness of being rewarded for skill time spent and not only ISK and game time to earn that isk spent. That a 30 day account should be able to take down a 6 month skill set is not balance, it's making long time comitments to training skills and using game time pointless for players.
Doesnt know how eve works
Freiday wrote: I think 10km is a pretty long distance even for 800mm guns.
Doesnt know how AC's work
Freiday wrote:
That's a point, and if the RHML actually work at distances of 1km - 250m then I withdraw my sugestion.
Doesnt know how missiles work EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Linkxsc162534
Traps 'R' Us Bask of Fail
53
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Posted - 2014.02.19 17:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Freiday wrote:The balance issue comes down to the fairness of being rewarded for skill time spent and not only ISK and game time to earn that isk spent. That a 30 day account should be able to take down a 6 month skill set is not balance, it's making long time comitments to training skills and using game time pointless for players.
Umm it onyl takes a month to get into a BS. Now if you want to argue the skill time spent. Just remember a 2.5 wekk bomber can kill your BS pretty easy.
Now I wish I wasn't going to tell you HTFU, but I am. HTFU. Theres no reason why you can't take 1-2 of your main large guns/launchers off your ship and replace them with smaller equivalents to take out frigates. Also do you not have T2 light drones/Drone Interfacing 3-5 (really need to make that skill mandatory). |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2014.02.19 18:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Freiday wrote:The balance issue comes down to the fairness of being rewarded for skill time spent and not only ISK and game time to earn that isk spent. That a 30 day account should be able to take down a 6 month skill set is not balance, it's making long time comitments to training skills and using game time pointless for players.
Either that is a troll, or just wow. One of the draws to EVE is that a 30 day old player CAN beat a 6 month player. It's not about who has the bigger ship, it's about how you use the ship you have. (Or who has more friends, etc.)
Also, historically, destroyers were originally built specifically to kill unsupported battleships, it's why the few large battleship engagements that happened (Jutland for instance) had massive destroyer/cruiser screens on both sides. (And the German way of disengaging their fleet to save their capital ships, if memory serves, was to basically suicide charge their destroyer screen into the Allied fleet to allow their battleships to escape.)
P.S. You can fit small frigate size guns to your battleship, if you really want to. Nothing is stopping you. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2048
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 18:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Freiday wrote:As titans don't do missions or fly alone I don't think the comparisson is valid.
Maybe battleships shouldn't fly alone either?
And seriously, in missions you can work around it. It's not as if the AI is actually, you know, I. Either pull range or sick the drones on them.
Also, no one said titans. Just capitals. All of them. |
Sigras
Conglomo
682
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 19:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
when are people going to get it through their heads? more expensive does not equal better. It never should and it never will otherwise why wouldn't everyone just run the best ship?
This is why cost is not an effective balancing factor. |
Freiday
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sigras wrote:when are people going to get it through their heads? more expensive does not equal better. It never should and it never will otherwise why wouldn't everyone just run the best ship?
This is why cost is not an effective balancing factor.
This is true and is the whole point, and it is a flaw in the game that is exploited by griefers that don't dedicate time and effort to the game, but just log in once in a while with a cheap setup to shot ships. |
Seliah
0mega.
28
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Posted - 2014.02.20 14:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Freiday wrote:Sigras wrote:when are people going to get it through their heads? more expensive does not equal better. It never should and it never will otherwise why wouldn't everyone just run the best ship?
This is why cost is not an effective balancing factor. This is true and is the whole point, and it is a flaw in the game that is exploited by griefers that don't dedicate time and effort to the game, but just log in once in a while with a cheap setup to shot ships.
No, what Sigras is saying is that every ship has its specific uses and areas of expertise, some ships being more versatile than othrs. The efficiency of a ship at a particular use is balanced by its cost, but you can't compare two ships who aren't designed for similar uses.
It looks like you just have a grudge against people flying cheap frigates more efficiently than you can fly your battleship. |
Voxinian
26
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Posted - 2014.02.20 14:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why not just fly missile boats? Personally I would not want to fly anything else for missions and general pve. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
If you fit 8 small guns to your battleship, you will do more dmg than any* frigate using the same weapn. While at the same time haveing alot higher EHP and repping power, along with leftover slots for TE/TC to get longer range and higher tracking.
Its by no accord a good fitting choice, but it will come as a supprise to much frigates :P
*to lazy to look over all frigates to see if this is in fact true, but it will be more than MOST atleast |
Mike Whiite
Stupid Stunts The Wolfpack Nexus
334
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Posted - 2014.02.20 14:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
MJD and smart bombs in utillity highs.
why the MJD?
To get away from stuf that might allert Concord.
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Pew Terror
Green Associates
82
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Posted - 2014.02.20 18:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
On a scale from 1 to not at all, how well does the OP understand EvE? |
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