Originally by: Selim

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Cool, congrats.

Oh, stupid idea by the way.

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What kind of weenie has a battleship, likes PvP and then camps in empire space? If you're such a bigshot badass why don't you head out (or back) to 0.0 and camp a gate there? Or are you just wanting to be the biggest, baddest of the carebears?

Whining from pirates. Irony really is dead....

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Camp jump-in points then.

There's no sentry guns there.

Yet.

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Camp jump-in points then.

There's no sentry guns there.

Yet.

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Camping Jump-in points is exploiting.

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I camped the jump in points in Sarum Prime, day later had a GM on me saying i was exploiting.

"Exploiting a known flaw in the load time for jump - ins"

I will aska GM again, if its not a exploit, then damn, I heading back to the place where I made 40 mill camping jump in points.

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Yes it freakin is cause i almost got banned again for it.

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Camp jump-in points then.

There's no sentry guns there.

Yet.

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Camping Jump-in points is exploiting.

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Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 17/09/2003 17:33:49

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What kind of weenie has a battleship, likes PvP and then camps in empire space? If you're such a bigshot badass why don't you head out (or back) to 0.0 and camp a gate there? Or are you just wanting to be the biggest, baddest of the carebears?

Whining from pirates. Irony really is dead....

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Camping 0.0 space is like trying to pick up women at a *** club.

Pointless.

There are 3 or 4 points in 0.0 where you get enough traffic to make it worthwhile but they are so well known that people avoid it or take precautions.

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What kind of weenie has a battleship, likes PvP and then camps in empire space? If you're such a bigshot badass why don't you head out (or back) to 0.0 and camp a gate there? Or are you just wanting to be the biggest, baddest of the carebears?

Whining from pirates. Irony really is dead....

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I spend a lot of ******* time in 0.0 you idiot, but none of the carebears go there, so I gotta come to empire space to blow them up. But now I can't do that anymore ..... oh well gonna have to camp jump-in spawn points with thousands of drones.

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Camp jump-in points then.

There's no sentry guns there.

Yet.

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Camping Jump-in points is exploiting.

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Lethargy, just shup up. Don't even try to argue with experienced pirates if you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

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I spend a lot of ******* time in 0.0 you idiot, but none of the carebears go there, so I gotta come to empire space to blow them up. But now I can't do that anymore ..... oh well gonna have to camp jump-in spawn points with thousands of drones.

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And as for this really annoying Cao Cao.. I will copy all my bookmarks for free from New caldari all the way to Obe and three jumps after it towards Concius Thought stations system, the FDZ4-A.

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And if Cao Cao by any chance you decide to quit plz give us all your stuff and the stuff from your TTI alt (or main) too.

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all the way to Obe and three jumps after it towards Concius Thought

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People who fought with or against me know if I am good or not. That's all I need to say to this.

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People who fought with or against me know if I am good or not. That's all I need to say to this.

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I know a few people that would back him up on that, Molly my dear.

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People who fought with or against me know if I am good or not. That's all I need to say to this.

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I know a few people that would back him up on that, Molly my dear.

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Back him up? Backing what up?

What do you mean with that. Please explain.

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Man you are one real big grown-up aren't you? Intruders. LOL. ******* homosexual piece of ****.

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Man you are one real big grown-up aren't you? Intruders. LOL. ******* homosexual piece of ****.

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Of course using bad language and attacking someone's sexuality really lends credibility to your arguements doesn't it?

For goodness (or badness) sake if you've got a point to make then don't devalue it by making yourself look like an arse, no matter how frustrated you are with the current changes!

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Jash Illian

You've never crossed Intruders. He's a griefer that takes his pleasure by further aggravting already frustrated people.

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Jash Illian

You've never crossed Intruders. He's a griefer that takes his pleasure by further aggravting already frustrated people.

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Do you have any proof I do this aggggravffting (whatever) Mr. Jash Illian?
I could let the people I helped in this game fill at least two threads by posting here, you're full of it.
Sorry I ****ed your lil carebear pirates off, and sorry I never buy your chatter on the forums cause I know you re a paid mouth, off you go to mine with them now..

btw: you are a scared little man, when I asked your email address to give you some interesting screens, you ****ted your pants, thinking it was some virus didnt you? Im really sorry for you man, I mean, seeing enemies everywhere..

And the above is the only recolection you ever had of me crossing paths together.

Am I lieing Jash Illian?

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its time to revoke Cao Cao's posting rights for one week, because he needs to cool off

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its time to revoke Cao Cao's posting rights for one week, because he needs to cool off

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98% of Cao Cao's posts are pointless one-line flames. Which is why I'm totally ignoring this thread.

Anything Cao Cao thinks is a bad change is probably good for EVE as a whole.

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Sentry guns at ALL stargates in empire space

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What kind of weenie has a battleship, likes PvP and then camps in empire space? If you're such a bigshot badass why don't you head out (or back) to 0.0 and camp a gate there? Or are you just wanting to be the biggest, baddest of the carebears?

Whining from pirates. Irony really is dead....

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I spend a lot of ******* time in 0.0 you idiot, but none of the carebears go there, so I gotta come to empire space to blow them up. But now I can't do that anymore ..... oh well gonna have to camp jump-in spawn points with thousands of drones.

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Originally by: Selim

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Cool, congrats.

Oh, stupid idea by the way.

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What kind of weenie has a battleship, likes PvP and then camps in empire space? If you're such a bigshot badass why don't you head out (or back) to 0.0 and camp a gate there? Or are you just wanting to be the biggest, baddest of the carebears?

Whining from pirates. Irony really is dead....

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I spend a lot of ******* time in 0.0 you idiot, but none of the carebears go there, so I gotta come to empire space to blow them up. But now I can't do that anymore ..... oh well gonna have to camp jump-in spawn points with thousands of drones.

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I think the overall improvement is significant, as it does give a more staggered change in security. In carebear space (which I think of as 0.5 and above) killing someone you're not at war with will get you a big sec hit and Concorde blasting you to pieces. in 0.1 to 0.4 you have to work a bit for your prey. You now can't camp gates, and will take a sec hit for PK activities but you can still do it in roid belts and stations, although you will have to move around more often rather than sitting in one place like a morbidly obese shut-in.

Which to my mind is fine since camping has been a lame tactic since Quake 1, and the mechanics of lag and warp-in distances in EVE make it ever lamer. As for 0.0, go nuts. Camp gates, do whatever. Like I say, it's a staggered decrease in level of security.

As for previous posts about how slow and boring it is to camp a 0.0 gate, I can accept that. Since the game is generally boring however, I can't see why anyone should sympathize.

Incidently, I apologize for my abusive language in my original post. You're prolly proud of yours so I won't comment beyond that.

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Originally by: Selim

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Cool, congrats.

Oh, stupid idea by the way.

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Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 18/09/2003 02:44:04

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Sentry guns at ALL stargates in empire space

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Whats your point?

We told you it was always intended to be this way from day one. Months ago we told all the Players that this was going to be implimented, all be it slowly.

People if we tell you "Look a train is coming" and point to it, you have no one to blame but yourself if you continue to stand on the tracks and ignore it.

I told Jash the other day "every thing I have said has come to pass, this is because they are not opinions but simple facts"

This is not the end as CCP moves the game along closer to corp (sanctioned) PVP and away from indiscrimate killing. Those players that understand what EVE is and that fighting is just one miner aspect of the game and the "real" player pirates are not affected by this because we knew it was going to happen and prepared for it.

If you don't want to accept it then just continue to stand on the train tracks a whistle in the dark. Maybe if you tell yourselves enough times that EVE should be a gankers game you may take your mind off that sound... Just keep telling yourself "It's only the wind,... It's only the wind,... Yes it may sound like a speeding freight train charging at you and blowing it's whistle but dont worry, it's only the wind..."

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After all, same could be said about you as well Veruna

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People go from absolutely no PvP experience whatsoever to full on, full fledge 10 battleship massacres in an eyeblink.

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People go from absolutely no PvP experience whatsoever to full on, full fledge 10 battleship massacres in an eyeblink.

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How can you justify this statement? What percentage of 0.0 space is camped by 10+ battleships.

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Only a fool would go from no PvP experience to an attempt to infiltrate space which is known to be camped by large and powerful pirate corporations. There are PLENTY of 0.0 systems out there that are less populated and less strictly controlled, ripe for small scale PvP experience.

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The fact is the successful PC pirate corporations have their regions locked down and defended. If players aren't venturing into their space - then good for them, they have succeeded in securing a region of space.

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So why do they ALSO need the ability to travel safely through empire space? In my opinion it's one or the other. Lock down a 0.0 region and defend it by destroying PC's who encroach... or enjoy the safety and security of empire space.

We can't venture into pirate space, so why should they have an easy time coming into "ours"?

I don't see the big problem.

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but since ccp has forced all the pirates to hide in 00 space.. whats the point. there is notheing to buy in 00 space only stuff to mine.

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so what they have done is turned everyone in this game includeing the pirates into miners..

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...
For balance sake, I do agree with Jash. There should be more gradation in concord response at the borders of empire space. The lower the rating the tamer the response should be. That way a player can measure the risk involved in visiting particular systems. I'd certainly appreciate a little more freedom in targetting Tagart convoys in .5 and below ;)
...
Love and peace

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but since ccp has forced all the pirates to hide in 00 space.. whats the point. there is notheing to buy in 00 space only stuff to mine.

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CCP hasn't forced anyone anywhere. Pirates CHOOSE to follow a certain profession, and any pirate with half a brain knows that it's going to be a risky profession. Not only is it dangerous in game, but since it's a "hot topic" it's going to be the subject of much debate and many adjustments to in-game dynamics and changes.

Simply put, if you can't deal with the consequences of being a pirate then maybe you should choose another line of work. You call other people "carebears," yet YOU'RE the one whining about a change that is making your life a little harder by denying you easy access to empire space. Who is the carebear again?

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As for ôgriefers,ö weÆve pushed them outside of Empire-controlled space by deploying increased police NPC protection within the protected systems, and also by setting up powerful sentry guns at all stargates within Empire space.

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All the ones that count can be like that. You don't have to cover all of 0.0 space. Just the chokepoints.

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You missed the whole Mara/Passari situation I believe. Ask someone about it. Just how many fools could return to a location each day that had been blockaded by m0o for a couple weeks? Saw podkills in Mara over 200 in a 24h period before.

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The lack of stations in 0.0 space also means the lack of agents, substantial trade, commonly needed items and a host of other things you take for granted.

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They need stations with the services they provide. they need stations with active markets so even the more daring people from Empire space won't view delivering a skill pack at 500% markup as a waste of energy because of the 50+ jumps needed to just deliver it.

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I stand by my statement. Players outside these pirate corporations are TOTALLY denied access to pirate-controlled space where the valuable ores and hunting grounds lie. In order to gain and maintain this advantage, pirates must make great sacrifices. This is how it should be. Why should pirate corps get to control their vast tracks of resource-ridden territory and STILL enjoy the benefits of CONCORD space? I say bunk to that.

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Since you keep saying "you", I'll return the favor.

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You're the Carebear. You live in such fear of pirates, you have to have it so even the 2 bit ones that actually might be on your level cannot exist anywhere near you.

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PvP has to be balanced, not On/Off. This game just doesn't work without it.

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Team damage was always intended to be in the game, but unless the server had an admin playing it was always turned off... Why?

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The art of piracy is to prey on the weak and undefended

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I'm interested in the EVE community, and maintaining a balance within the game.

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PvP has to be balanced, not On/Off. This game just doesn't work without it.

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My god you almost have it...

Yes it does, now all you have to do is accept that camping gates is not PVP and you will actually get it.

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Because of the role they choose to play, they should be rightfully cut off from many of the major and necessary game mechanics? Don't confuse what I'm saying here. I'm saying as a player the opportunities availible between pirate and non-pirate are not equal. To make them equal but not the same requires what's not implemented.

As a non-pirate the infrastructure is already in place, premade and provided for by the NPC corporations and station. The 'equal but not the same' opportunity, and consequently the greater challenge, would be to build your own.

Except that wasn't provided with the banishment.

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Because of the role they choose to play, they should be rightfully cut off from many of the major and necessary game mechanics? Don't confuse what I'm saying here. I'm saying as a player the opportunities availible between pirate and non-pirate are not equal. To make them equal but not the same requires what's not implemented.

As a non-pirate the infrastructure is already in place, premade and provided for by the NPC corporations and station. The 'equal but not the same' opportunity, and consequently the greater challenge, would be to build your own.

Except that wasn't provided with the banishment.

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I see what you're saying now and can agree with you on this point. I do believe 0.0 space should offer more for pirates than just mining, NPC hunting, or gate-camping chokepoints.

Perhaps CCP could have planned their implementation of certain game features and the order in which they were added to the game a bit better. Additional security in Empire space essentially results in pirates moving into 0.0 space - which right now offers very little in the way of entertainment.

However, what are the alternatives? CCP is working on more additions to the game, and what do you propose in the meantime?

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I just want to respond to that tasty **** from Jericho Fraction.

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TTi wants us to fight for them, not pay us, and not replace our losses when we get blown up.

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Sounds like a raw deal to me.

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Besides, I am not afraid to say that I will run from overwhelming odds --- 10 battleship blockade doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun to me.

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The art of piracy is to prey on the weak and undefended - like vultures.

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That doesn't mean I will shrink from a fair fight, I will always take near even odds.

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But I won't be stupid and go up against overwhelming odds --- sounds too much like throwing money down the toilet.

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CCP did shove them out into the middle of nowhere with only bistot and 50k pirates to hold their interest. Trust me, that gets old fast (npc pirates can't even hit a battleship from as far out as they're capable of destroying from). And with continued moves to further lock down Empire Space while doing nothing to rectify the situation they themselves created, says what about CCP?

They don't give a damn about their customers that are simply playing the game as they described it.

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I think it doesn't help that you have players like Cao Cao speaking for you. His methods for letting his opinions be known are a great way to be IGNORED by the people that matter.

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CAREBEARS WEEEEEEEEEEEE LETS ALL HAVE A GROUPHUG. You****S yeah i said it****S

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Lethargy, just shup up. Don't even try to argue with experienced pirates if you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Two words for you: IMMUNITY TIMERS!

Only the people who sleep or understimate you at a belt are killable. With the new module stacking nerf it is much harder to jam someone at a belt and if you team up your prey is likely to be alerted faster.

But the nice targets are in 1.0 systems now anyway, mining in their Apocs and 8 drones under the protection of the police.

Time to declare war to the fat ugly carebear corps...

Risk vs reward.

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CAREBEARS WEEEEEEEEEEEE LETS ALL HAVE A GROUPHUG. You****S yeah i said it****S

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What have cigarettes got to do with anything?

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I'll say it plainly once again for effect.

"Cao Cao" and "Algazara" and "Paladins of the Red Skull" = Taggart Transpiratical allies in the war against the NVA.

You are judged by the quality of your comrades-in-arms. Get into bed with scum and you are tainted by association.

Taggart Allies

Join the NVA today! ... Kick the "carebear" pirates in the ass!

Love and peace (and taggart ships a-roasting over a low steady flame)

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Carebear = those without Tachyons.

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Originally by: Selim

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Cool, congrats.

Oh, stupid idea by the way.

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Originally by: Selim

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Cool, congrats.

Oh, stupid idea by the way.

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Jade who cares about TTI? No one does anymore theyre dead.

As for carebears Im proud to be one and I fully support the nerf-bat in dealing with these griefers! Carebears are the heart of EVE!!! We deserve the right to play without being griefed by PK psychos! Support your local Carebear!!!!

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Originally by: Selim

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Cool, congrats.

Oh, stupid idea by the way.

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Change List
09/10/2003 Corrected spelling for 999

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Jash Illian

Yes, you're lying. Because

I got your email because you got my email address from me.

Odd thing, if I were scared of you sending me a virus why would I give you my email addy? And unlike you, I didn't use an anonymous Yahoo email address

I had completely forgotten about that email. Still got it in my mailbox too. You musta terrified me into amnesia.

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Yes it freakin is cause i almost got banned again for it.

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Jash Illian

Yes, you're lying. Because

I got your email because you got my email address from me.

Odd thing, if I were scared of you sending me a virus why would I give you my email addy? And unlike you, I didn't use an anonymous Yahoo email address

I had completely forgotten about that email. Still got it in my mailbox too. You musta terrified me into amnesia.

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You re not just full of it, you are so miserable too.
Of course you were not the only one, I was sending out eve-mails to any which I could find allerting them of whats going down with those screenshots, and in each mail (not the eve-mail) I was letting them know to whom else I contacted to send them thos screenshots, you just peged someone after rereading my original eve-email (which you seem to be stocking eve-mails in archives, weird thing to do, or else there wouldnt be a chance of remembering it) and asked him if I have sent him an e-mail and to reveal you my current e-mail address which I never sented you anything with it.

I dont understand your nonsense about non formal email accounts since you yourself were afraid to contact me even with a fake one.

Seeing a person that goes too much out of his way to lie for something so insignificant, after he had the stupid urge to accuse a person he doesnt know and he never met in game because this person disagreed with one of your annoying friends (which is not my personal oppinion only) shows only one thing.

That you Jash Illian are a big time idiot, and appart from that, you are weird too.

Nuf waisting my time with you.

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Zarthan, maybe you are playing the wrong games, dood, seriously. Not that PvP isn't a needed part of the game but, sheesh, some of you people act as if that is the only reason to play this game if not the only way to play it. It's not and it isn't, but hey, if PvP is your bag - go with it, just don't **** and moan when other people don't want to play.

Same goes for non PvP'rs. Just cause you don't PvP doesn't mean you should screw it up for those who do like it.

For the real pirates out there (there are many who don't post here I am sure), I doubt this will not really affect you much at all. Some of you do it right from what I have seen. If it weren't for the gate camp cannin, grid abusing, jump point drone exploitin*****-bite 'pirates' out there (not many - but they are forum *****s - shocker!), the state of PvP probably would not be like this. You*****-bites know who you are (and so does everyone else).

One*****-bite or two can totally ruin a style of play for everyone else who enjoys that style of play. You 'pirates' may want to look at who is causing these problems and 'rectify' it.

"Jokes on you! I'm already dead *****!"

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Zarthan, maybe you are playing the wrong games, dood, seriously. Not that PvP isn't a needed part of the game but, sheesh, some of you people act as if that is the only reason to play this game if not the only way to play it. It's not and it isn't, but hey, if PvP is your bag - go with it, just don't **** and moan when other people don't want to play.

Same goes for non PvP'rs. Just cause you don't PvP doesn't mean you should screw it up for those who do like it.

For the real pirates out there (there are many who don't post here I am sure), I doubt this will not really affect you much at all. Some of you do it right from what I have seen. If it weren't for the gate camp cannin, grid abusing, jump point drone exploitin*****-bite 'pirates' out there (not many - but they are forum *****s - shocker!), the state of PvP probably would not be like this. You*****-bites know who you are (and so does everyone else).

One*****-bite or two can totally ruin a style of play for everyone else who enjoys that style of play. You 'pirates' may want to look at who is causing these problems and 'rectify' it.

"Jokes on you! I'm already dead *****!"

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One thing that always puzzles me. People say pirates should be attacking people in roid belts...Why?

With my Mammoth's current config (as I can't be bothered to pay obscene isk for a cargo expander), it'll hold maybe 1 refine of bistot. Why would a pirate want to go after a mining group that may not even have a full load of bistot mined when there are people flying around AFK with millions+ in trade goods?

And to further follow that line of "Why waste time going after chump change?", if they're targetting the industrials carrying millions in cargo, instead of a scant million worth of bistot that they're unlikely to be able to haul, where do you expect them to stop that industrial? Last time I checked, the autopilot didn't plot routes through roid belts

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*yawn*

boring..

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Ooo...am I a big smelly doo doo head too? Intruders, same thing to Jade:

Take your personal vendetta elsewhere

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Zarthan, maybe you are playing the wrong games, dood, seriously. Not that PvP isn't a needed part of the game but, sheesh, some of you people act as if that is the only reason to play this game if not the only way to play it. It's not and it isn't, but hey, if PvP is your bag - go with it, just don't **** and moan when other people don't want to play.

Same goes for non PvP'rs. Just cause you don't PvP doesn't mean you should screw it up for those who do like it.

For the real pirates out there (there are many who don't post here I am sure), I doubt this will not really affect you much at all. Some of you do it right from what I have seen. If it weren't for the gate camp cannin, grid abusing, jump point drone exploitin*****-bite 'pirates' out there (not many - but they are forum *****s - shocker!), the state of PvP probably would not be like this. You*****-bites know who you are (and so does everyone else).

One*****-bite or two can totally ruin a style of play for everyone else who enjoys that style of play. You 'pirates' may want to look at who is causing these problems and 'rectify' it.

"Jokes on you! I'm already dead *****!"

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Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/09/2003 21:16:13

[Jash wrote]

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Ooo...am I a big smelly doo doo head too? Intruders, same thing to Jade:

Take your personal vendetta elsewhere

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I've said you've made good points on the PvP in marginal space issue Jash but please don't force us to disagree on the vendetta thing. Cao Cao has made his in-game bed by allying with TTi ... its not possible to entirely disassociate a point of view from the associations chosen. Taggart represent the biggest Piratical alliance in the game. When one of their members comes around arguing for a pirate's right to butcher and maim in high sec space (Yulai) then its fair play to answer in political context.

If you want a sensible discussion about the honest pirate's path in Eve then you would be better off making your own thread. Cao Cao hamstrings your sensible arguments from day one because he comes across as a deeply objectionable man with unresolved personal sexuality issues.

*and* he is Ragnar's soap-toting shower *****. And that means he's my target!

Love and peace

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You do have a point there. 0.0 ain't for afk. Thats just stupid.

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Edited by: Baff's Ugly on 19/09/2003 01:47:37



and the end of the day, it's still just a game.

afk or no. whoever blew up her ship, for whatever reason, greatly upset another players enjoyment of the game for their own selfish satisfaction.

justify it however you like.
you take your pleasure from ruining others.

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and the end of the day, it's still just a game.

afk or no. whoever blew up her ship, for whatever reason, greatly upset another players enjoyment of the game for their own selfish satisfaction.

justify it however you like.
you take your pleasure from ruining others.

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just about everything in life provides for opportunity to disrupt other peoples pleasure in the name of your own. not just this game.


anti social behaviour is anti social behaviour.



it doesn't matter WHY you do it.
it matters THAT you do it.

the end result is the same.

you ruin another persons fun to get yours.
it's a simple statement and it's true.

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Edited by: Cao Cao on 17/09/2003 17:15:29
Sentry guns at ALL stargates in empire space.

Chalk another one up to goddamn carebears. Add onto the fact that bookmarks still work with stargates and you have the DEATH KNELL of piracy.

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Earlier today, in complete frustration, my corporation completely locked down P3EN-E. We caught several people and missed a few others. We locked a couple n00bs in cruisers into the system by blocking off both stargates.

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As a relatively new player to this game (about 5 weeks) I must say that CCP has perhaps their best interests in mind when they make changes to the game to protect new players. They obviously need to draw more players to the game and keep the players that they have. I do believe however that they might be going about it incorrectly.

What I and a few friends have experienced as a new players is the lack of proper tools to understand what is going on, and what to do or not to do in EVE.

I can't think of any other game I have played that required me to do so much research on 'how to stay alive' than in this game. It's not that difficult to stay out of trouble, I even managed to avoid and go around a Moo blockade early on in the game (fix the mouse over bug in the map screen PLEASE) The problem is that firstly I needed to be aware of MOO and secondly I needed to figure out the how use all the tools at my disposal.

Just to to say that I think that if CCP prepared new players better they could avoid making some of the changes they have made that have nerfed a lot of fun for some other players.

Most of you in the thread are veteran players. I think its normal, but I think you need to put yourself in CCP's place and also look at the game through the eyes of a new player. It's pretty overwhelming for both CCP and the new player and could lead to both making mistakes.

As for travelling through a 0.0 AFK with autopilot...that was plane dumb.

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Okay, then let's ask you:

During your 5 weeks of play so far, how many times were you attacked by another player and where did those attacks take place?

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Once. When I was travelling to a station and had to pass the aunonen (sp?) system in my bestower. Moo was blockading the gate. I had 4 abs on my bestower and got by him.

But, what are you getting at?

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I would add that the "death knell of piracy" never wouldve happend if people had stayed honest pirates and not gone off PKing everyone in sight and coming up with lame game mechanic exploits just to get their jollies. If this very small PK crowd had just behaved themselves like "honest" pirates instead of murdering everyone we would have Tech II already and honest pirates could still make a living. Instead CCP had to super-nerf the game because of the actions of a few PK psychos NOT because of carebears.

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Honest piracy is something we need in this game like the Space Invaders (early on) [...] The fact is most people dont mind having PvP in the game but they want a chance. It seems the same PK people over and over again are finding exploits like this drone lag deal that now CCP has to waste valuable time fixing. [...] If PK people would cool it and start playing honest pirate and go for tolls and not kills perhaps we would see high content already?

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Edited by: Captain Carebear on 19/09/2003 17:15:44




"CCP has been massively overreacting to a very vocal, very whiney minority that for the most part has never taken part in anything but mining and trading"

I dont think we are the minority I think were the majority and I think more and more people are getting sick of PK behavior and obvious exploits in game design by the same PK crowd over and over again. People confuse PK and PvP. They are NOT the same thing. Honest piracy is something we need in this game like the Space Invaders (early on). Does anything think m0o was going to stop that guy and ask for a toll? No, they wouldve locked him, then blasted him probably while he was lagged by 50 Harvestor drones looking at a black screen. This isnt PvP at all its nothing but griefing behavior. Look at the facts. We only have a few PK-PvP types who post on the forum regularly (Ive only been reading the forum a week just found it but Ive read back several months of posts already). Likewise there are only a few carebear regulars who post as well. So why is one side being treated so tenderly while the other side is being nerfed? Id like to know how many ingame petitions CCP has gotten from "carebears" concerning the PK psychos. Id like to know how many people have written actual e-mails to CCP GM's about the problem. I know of three entire corporations with membership nearly 500 between them who organized actual letter writing campaigns to CCP headquarters and their CEO about the PK problem back when m0o was doing the Mara blockades and murdering everyone.

The fact is most people dont mind having PvP in the game but they want a chance. It seems the same PK people over and over again are finding exploits like this drone lag deal that now CCP has to waste valuable time fixing. It seems they only do this to make people miserable and tie up the developers time so we dont have higher content. If PK people would cool it and start playing honest pirate and go for tolls and not kills perhaps we would see high content already? Instead its really the minority (PK'ers) who are holding the rest of us hostage by holding the Devs hostage dealing with your behavior and holding the higher level content out of the game.

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Jash, While Im new to the forums Im a veteran at Eve and being robbed. Ive been held up two times by Space Invaders and five times by the now defuct The Gang. When handled professionally piracy is an intense but role-playing experience. Running around murdering people for no reason is not what I call PvP.

As for losing the alt you'd probably be surprised to find one of my three characters is a pirate (although an "honest" one) and the other is in a small corp that minds its own business. So I have a unique perspective on the game playing it from both sides. My view is piracy has been ruined by the griefing PK players who forced CCP to come in swinging with the nerf-bat and ruin piracy. Anyway the alt is for fun and entertainment and I do have over 50 of these little bear animations to use.

Can we trust the PK players to play like "pirates" and not murderers? If we can then maybe well move from this us versus them fight. Until then expect it to only get worse.

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Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 17/09/2003 17:33:49

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What kind of weenie has a battleship, likes PvP and then camps in empire space? If you're such a bigshot badass why don't you head out (or back) to 0.0 and camp a gate there? Or are you just wanting to be the biggest, baddest of the carebears?

Whining from pirates. Irony really is dead....

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Camping 0.0 space is like trying to pick up women at a *** club.

Pointless.

There are 3 or 4 points in 0.0 where you get enough traffic to make it worthwhile but they are so well known that people avoid it or take precautions.

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CAREBEARS ARE EVERYWHERE!!!!!

"Look at the contrast offered between Space Invaders and m0o. Both played an important role in defining piracy."

OK lets look at them. One group camped gates, pirated professionally, held people up, gave them the chance to escape with their ships (to make more money to steal later). They didn't PK at random (I saw a post where Setec says he'd PK three players only) and were generally respected in the Eve community to the point that even legitimate businessman defended them on the forums (from the old ones Ive read) and were fans of SI.

The other group m0o camped gates using ships loaded with stacked modules that CCP said were improperly boosting damage, acknowledged this but kept using them anyway, killed players without even giving them a chance. Griefed the general Eve community to the point that entire corporations organized real life letter writing campaigns complaining about griefers. Were the focus of more threads then anyone nearly all of which were complaints about their griefing behavior. They podded newbies in 1.0 space (Including ME!!!!) after the GM's sent some battleships to break the Mara blockade and generally ran wild and caused nothing but misery for everyone. In essence they were not pirates at all but griefing PK'ers.

So theres my take on the comparison of those two corps (one a pirate the other PK). There is a difference.

Signed.......... A loyal former The Gang pirate (now a freelance pirate) whose alt The Gang robbed early on and didnt even realize it was an alt......

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I would add that the "death knell of piracy" never wouldve happend if people had stayed honest pirates and not gone off PKing everyone in sight and coming up with lame game mechanic exploits just to get their jollies. If this very small PK crowd had just behaved themselves like "honest" pirates instead of murdering everyone we would have Tech II already and honest pirates could still make a living. Instead CCP had to super-nerf the game because of the actions of a few PK psychos NOT because of carebears.

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I would add that the "death knell of piracy" never wouldve happend if people had stayed honest pirates and not gone off PKing everyone in sight and coming up with lame game mechanic exploits just to get their jollies. If this very small PK crowd had just behaved themselves like "honest" pirates instead of murdering everyone we would have Tech II already and honest pirates could still make a living. Instead CCP had to super-nerf the game because of the actions of a few PK psychos NOT because of carebears.

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EGGSACTLY!!! the few bungholios have spoiled it for the many. Well said

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This thread is getting a bit.....circular.

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Edited by: Cao Cao on 20/09/2003 17:58:21
It is now completely impossible to go after your enemies, even in a "corp war" setting as has been suggested throughout this thread. It is mostly because of the god damn bookmark problem on jumpgates.

As if bringing "uber CONCORD" (i.e. 350dmg sentry guns with 120km range) to the ghetto of empire space wasn't enough:

Right now, when you try to lock down a region, or go after an enemy, it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE if they even have half a brain. One of our corporate enemies IN A DECLARED WAR (so that we can go after them in empire space) had a mining operation last night in the upper Vale of the Silent). But it was impossible to block any of their industrials or disrupt them AT ALL because of bookmarked jumpgates!

Ridiculous ... I am sorry but at least with weaker sentry guns that had range limitations we could go after our enemies in some limited fashion now it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE because of the damn bookmarks.

EDIT: the end result is that only the n00bish, ignorant, or otherwise mentally defective are killed while the people you really want to go after get away scot-free.

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Jesus, Cao Cao has it ever accured to you that maybe smart people should be able to get away and dumb people get the shaft. So basiclly you want it to were nobody can get away. You have the advantage by sitting at the gate and waiting for players to warp in. The players simply negates that advantage with a bookmark. I dont agree with all the sentry gun nerfs that have been put in. I think they should be much less of a danger maybe just strong enough to give the right person an advantage in a bad way. But taking away the ability to bookmark is not the solution. Hell, you cant tell me you dont use bookmarks to get around faster.

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In your last post you state that you think its wrong that smart players get past 100% of the time... to me that is almost exactly as it should be, with preperations, planning and the right tactics you should be almost guaranteed to get past a blockade... at least untill the pirates find a way to counter the method used.

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In your last post you state that you think its wrong that smart players get past 100% of the time... to me that is almost exactly as it should be, with preperations, planning and the right tactics you should be almost guaranteed to get past a blockade... at least untill the pirates find a way to counter the method used.

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That's just my point. There IS no possible counter to bookmarked jumpgates, which is what makes it an unreasonable part of the game.

But I do remember hearing they were working on removing them from the game --- I just hope it happens sooner rather than later.

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If CCP were smart they would make some kinda of gravity well module.

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Plus, I dont know if you seen it done but even if they nerf bookmarks I will still evade you at the gates.

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everyone hates tank... /me wants to join him....

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you have the DEATH KNELL of piracy.

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if u lag people to kill them - whether its an exploit or not - u r ghey in the highest order

some of ur pirates are the richest, the most powerful and the best at 1v1

so why use a gehy tactic to win?

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If CCP were smart they would make some kinda of gravity well module.

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I completely agree. If you could anchor a module in space that drops people out of warp within a 50km radius of the module, that would be a VERY good solution to the issue. In fact, I think the idea is deserving of its own thread. I'm sure nobody reads this one anymore anyway.

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