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How to utterly demolish bot mining easily

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Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:11:00 - [1] - Quote Bot mining is extremely common because it is more than possible to mine enough income in highsec to plex the account using a simple computer program that can run the mining operation. Solution: Make highsec mining not profitable enough to sustain an account all by itself. Economic reaction: Nearly all highsec bot mining operations will disappear; the majority of remaining highsec bot miners will be characters that are used for other things as well. The only remaining characters devoted entirely to botting will have operators who run other passive income sources as well to suplement their income. How to accomplish this: Reduce the demand for highsec minerals. Dramatically increase the prevalence of minerals tritanium, pyerite, mexallon, and isogen. If normal players could mine in highsec enough for their own ships in their off time, then highsec mineral income would plummet. The economy could not sustain lots of bot miners because there simply wouldn't be enough demand for those minerals. A lot of manufacturers would refuse to pay large amounts of ISK for their minerals when they could just go mine them in a short amount of time. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
scimichar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 151	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:26:00 - [2] - Quote This would mean more "bot" miners. A normal human miner wouldn't do it if it were not profitable. Therefore all that is left will be the bots. As it is mining makes mere pennies compared to other professions.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1108	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:27:00 - [3] - Quote Except then non bot miners also couldn't make an income. And you have just destroyed an entire play style. Industry also becomes worthless since minerals are worthless meaning a 5% profit margin is 1-2 isk. So you have now destroyed a second play style. Oh, and ships become worthless, since they are so cheap to build. So you have destroyed PvP as well since there is no value to the destroyed goods so no-one cares. Dumb idea.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:43:00 - [4] - Quote People will still want ships and the industry will still be just as active. All that will change in industry is the price of materials, which will directly affect the price of output. The margin remains the same because it costs the same amount of work and has the same amount of access. Mining will continue in places outside of highsec. The price of nocxium, zydrine, megacyte, and morphite will not change significantly. The other minerals will become bystanders which the miners will have in excess and will sell to manufacturers who wish to use them. Mining in highsec will not be very profitable, and it shouldn't be. It takes very little work and is easily done by bots or mostly AFK. It should pay accordingly. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Anhenka Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 253	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:45:00 - [5] - Quote Oh dear Cthulu no. While it would be nice if mineral prices dropped a bit, I'd rather it was by giving active paying attention miners a way to increase yield through interaction, increasing mineral flow that way. But this idea.... this is impressive in a truly Razzie fashion. Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Mining in highsec will not be very profitable, and it shouldn't be. It takes very little work and is easily done by bots or mostly AFK. It should pay accordingly. It already pays peanuts. Really. 20-25 mil an hour for a highly skilled solo miner actively scanning rocks and adjusting cycle lengths? With less for a partially afk miner? Forget that. You can make quadruple that in FW with the same SP. If someone wants to rot their brain out semi-afk mining for less isk per hour than I can count on my fingers and toes (in millions), then they are welcome to do so.
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 2514	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:56:00 - [6] - Quote So...destroy the economy. Riiiiiiight.
HiddenPorpoise BG-1 The Craniac 166	Posted - 2014.02.28 02:07:00 - [7] - Quote To be fair, wiping out the economy will stop (some) botting.
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 2956	Posted - 2014.02.28 02:17:00 - [8] - Quote If we want to eliminate or at least heavily discourage bot mining we need to come up with some interactive methods to improve and reward "human" mining that can't easily be replicated by programs. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 247	Posted - 2014.02.28 02:24:00 - [9] - Quote He's right. Once the economy is destroyed, no one is having any fun, and everyone goes to play something else, nobody will bot anymore! Wait, that's not right...
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 02:40:00 - [10] - Quote Anhenka wrote: It already pays peanuts. Compared to other sources of safe highsec income it's pretty high, and safe highsec income is generally much higher than it should be anyway. 25 mil an hour is way too much. Newbies would still mine if it were 5 mil an hour. I'm also interested to hear how you armchair economists have come to the conclusion that it will destroy the EVE economy. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Koffin Nail Vinnell Corporation 0	Posted - 2014.02.28 02:43:00 - [11] - Quote wrong, wrong and wrong... want to remove the bots or at least lower the amount of them, increase the difficulty. Take rats from null, put them in empire. Deep null, BS rats that hit like a freight train, eat hammerheads like munchies. Win/Win miners learn how to tank, and defend, have backup to kill rats. Can't afk without risking loss of ship to rats.
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 2957	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:04:00 - [12] - Quote Koffin Nail wrote: want to remove the bots or at least lower the amount of them, increase the difficulty. That would definitely have a noticeable impact. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Anhenka Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 253	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:04:00 - [13] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Anhenka wrote: It already pays peanuts. Compared to other sources of safe highsec income it's pretty high, and safe highsec income is generally much higher than it should be anyway. 25 mil an hour is way too much. Newbies would still mine if it were 5 mil an hour. I'm also interested to hear how you armchair economists have come to the conclusion that it will destroy the EVE economy. Because the cornerstone of eve is minerals. It always has been. Mineral prices go up, so does ship and module and ammo prices. Ships get made, insured, destroyed, isk is created, sent back to the miners, and the cycle continues. Every produced ship in the game is highly based off the current mineral basket cost. Even t2 to a significant degree. And since apparently you don't know much about the topic you started, I'll lay it out. The bottleneck in production is Trit and Pyerite. Not nulsec/WH minerals. Those are insanely glutted, and if the majority of highsec miners went to nullsec to mine, the market would be saturated to the point of uselessness. Caps and supercaps take insanely high amounts of Trit and Pyerite relative to the other minerals. The amount of mining needed to acquire the high end minerals only provides a tiny fraction of the trit needed. Cut out the bottleneck for those minerals and within a few months everyone is flying around in 150 Mil carriers, 300 mil dreadnaughts, and 5 Bil isk Titans. Nullsec players throw capitals at each other en masse, **** dies but nobody cares cause it's worthless. The sense of value having fled PvP accomplishments, many of those players follow the already reduced miner subclass into deactivating their account, bored with the pointlessness of working to try and kill ships that can be replaced in less time than it took to kill them. Highsec mission runners flee in terror because suddenly, it costs 5 minutes of ratting to fit a tornado. Suicide ganking thresholds drop to 200 mil worth of non t1 items in a freighter then now costs 100 mil to build, and 30 mil worth of talos's to destroy. Not that it matters, since there's nothing besides faction gear to spend your money on. Plex's bloom to multiple billions apiece with nothing to spend isk on, mission runners are now unable to plex their account without 8 hours a day grinding. They quit. All is silent EVE crumbles. And this is really not an unrealistic projection.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:17:00 - [14] - Quote Anhenka wrote: The bottleneck in production is Trit and Pyerite. Not nulsec/WH minerals. Those are insanely glutted, and if the majority of highsec miners went to nullsec to mine, the market would be saturated to the point of uselessness. I'm not arguing where the bottleneck is now, in fact it was sort of the point of my post. My suggestion would turn that bottleneck over to the other minerals. Highsec miners in general will not go to nullsec to mine. If highsec mining loses profitability they will find another source of income. I stopped reading your post about there since you clearly don't have even the most basic grasp of EVE economics. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 2518	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:22:00 - [15] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I stopped reading your post about there since you clearly don't have even the most basic grasp of EVE economics. Neither do you, given the fact that you seem to think supply and demand doesn't actually exist.
Anhenka Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 255	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:29:00 - [16] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I stopped reading your post about there since you clearly don't have even the most basic grasp of EVE economics. You really don't get it. There is no bottleneck for the other minerals. None at all. If you took the amount of time takes to mine all the minerals for a titan and spent that time mining the high end ores exclusively, you would have literally dozens of titans worth of high end materials. 90% of the time spent mining to build a titan is spent mining for bulk amounts of Tritanium or Pyerite. A third the current number of miners in eve could supply more high end minerals than all the PvP'rs in eve could manage to lose on a regular basis. Even as it is, it's so easy to mine nullsec ores that it's not even all that much more profitable (assuming equal boosts) per m3 to mine nullsec ores as compared to high sec Scordite. Edit: a Quick look gives me a 188 isk/m3 value for Scordite, and a 214 isk/m3 value for Arkanor.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:54:00 - [17] - Quote So then the high end mineral costs should be increased. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Anhenka Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:58:00 - [18] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: So then the high end mineral costs should be increased. Unless you plan on increasing it by an order of magnitde, it would matter not. Frankly, market is in a pretty comfortable position as it is. Nullsec ores pay a bit better, but organized nullsec miners get things like Rorqual boosting that highs don't, safety behind walls of blues, and much larger m3 per roid that allows them significantly better overall pay, even when mining veld. Highsec get safety, and a good place to do industry. Prices for ships are not too insane relative to most players income. Increase the amount gained or required from nullsec ores and not much will change, change highsec ores and even nullseccers will spend most of their time mining highsec ores...in nullsec. TLDR: ****'s not broke, don't try and fix it.
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 247	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:58:00 - [19] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: So then the high end mineral costs should be increased. Then you're just going to make my nullsec miner alts super rich, without solving the problem of bots. It's not a mineral/ore prevalence price that's the heart of the botting problem. It's the mechanics that are jnvolved in actually obtaining the materials.
Dolorous Tremmens The Scope Gallente Federation 120	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:06:00 - [20] - Quote If you really want to get rid of botting, have a captcha pop up for every strip mining cycle 15 seconds before its done. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Captain StringfellowHawk Forsaken Reavers 102	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:31:00 - [21] - Quote This would solve nothing. I know WAAAAAY More botters in Nullsec then in Hi-sec. Especially with the recent Buffs to Null industry. Also reducing the cost of the economy scales ALL areas. Minerals are Eve's Lifes blood. If the Economy tanks.. PLEX prices will tank as well. All this will do is keep the botters, Doing what they do.. BOT. When I started EVE Plex was 275M each.. Now its 650. If the economy Tanks.. Players dont make as much ISK... ANYwhere.. Plex will drop, Botters will Bot. Nullsec Botters will still Bot, Hi-seccers will still Bot. Prices would scale down.. In the end.. your paying the same. All that changed was inflation.
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 248	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:33:00 - [22] - Quote Dolorous Tremmens wrote: If you really want to get rid of botting, have a captcha pop up for every strip mining cycle 15 seconds before its done. oh **** no.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:34:00 - [23] - Quote ISK inflation is controlled by ISK income. PLEX went way up after the Incursion expansion gave everyone a way to make ridiculous amounts of ISK safely in highsec. There have been some other ISK faucets opened up since then as well, and very little increase in overal ISK sinks. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Anhenka Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:37:00 - [24] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: This would solve nothing. I know WAAAAAY More botters in Nullsec then in Hi-sec. Especially with the recent Buffs to Null industry. Also reducing the cost of the economy scales ALL areas. Minerals are Eve's Lifes blood. If the Economy tanks.. PLEX prices will tank as well. All this will do is keep the botters, Doing what they do.. BOT. When I started EVE Plex was 275M each.. Now its 650. If the economy Tanks.. Players dont make as much ISK... ANYwhere.. Plex will drop, Botters will Bot. Nullsec Botters will still Bot, Hi-seccers will still Bot. Prices would scale down.. In the end.. your paying the same. All that changed was inflation. A: Use some damn formatting. B: With minerals and ships disappearing as a main financial outlay of players, the primary things to spend money are meta/faction modules and PLEX's. This would result in hyperinflation, where the only item perceived to be of real, stable "Value" will skyrocket in price with it being the main thing people now have remaining to spend money on. All non ship prices would spike in price and continue to rise over time (assuming the playerbase stayed the same, which it wouldn't. The collapsing playerbase would actually result in a decrease in the price of plex due to much lower demand.)
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 248	Posted - 2014.02.28 05:20:00 - [25] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: ISK inflation is controlled by ISK income. PLEX went way up after the Incursion expansion gave everyone a way to make ridiculous amounts of ISK safely in highsec. There have been some other ISK faucets opened up since then as well, and very little increase in overal ISK sinks. If your goal is botting, do not touch the balance of supply and demand in materials or any other market good for that matter. That will not solve the problem.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 05:26:00 - [26] - Quote Anhenka wrote: In fact, as of the last economic report, it was stated that EVE was sitting at a very healthy slow rate of inflation, and that Sinks/Faucets were well balanced. Slow is not how I would describe it. It's slow in comparison to what it was doing after Incursion, but there's still so much ISK coming in that the economy is still inflating when it's already gone so far that if anything it should probably deflate a little. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Anhenka Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 258	Posted - 2014.02.28 05:33:00 - [27] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Anhenka wrote: In fact, as of the last economic report, it was stated that EVE was sitting at a very healthy slow rate of inflation, and that Sinks/Faucets were well balanced. Slow is not how I would describe it. It's slow in comparison to what it was doing after Incursion, but there's still so much ISK coming in that the economy is still inflating when it's already gone so far that if anything it should probably deflate a little. I'm just paraphrasing the last report of the Econ guy that CCP keeps. He was the one that stated that it was a good point and that he did not feel that any significant increase of sinks was needed. P.S: Incursion was a sink, not a faucet. Unless I'm mistaken (I could be, Incursions are the one thing in eve I don't know **** about), then the primary payout for Incursions is in the form of Concord LP, not bounties. And like any LP transaction, isk disappears, not appears. It does not matter how much an incursion runner makes in ISK from selling items to other players, as long as LP stores are being used as the means of cashing it out, isk is being destroyed and it is thus a sink.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:03:00 - [28] - Quote Anhenka wrote: the primary payout for Incursions is in the form of Concord LP, not bounties. Couldn't be further from the truth. The meager amounts of CONCORD LP you get from running incursions is watered down by the insane LP costs of items in CONCORD's LP store. People run incursions for the ISK, and there's a lot of it. You get about 10 mil per Vanguard site and those can be run in under 5 minutes by an experienced group with blingy ships. My first incursion run, I brought a Navy Megathron and ran with a mediocre group that was far from the best. In a little over 3 hours we made 300 mil each. Incursion Assaults pay significantly more and can also be run in highsec. I don't know the actual amounts but from what I hear, the people who can run assaults will never bother with vanguards if they don't have to. Apparently the difference is pretty significant. I have not bought anything from the CONCORD LP store yet. I'm not just holding out, I simply haven't scored enough CONCORD LP over all of my incursion runs (maybe 60+ sites) to actually buy anything of value. My CONCORD LP is worth nothing compared to the ISK payouts. edit: I have 116,206 CONCORD loyalty points Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Anhenka Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 258	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:07:00 - [29] - Quote Anhenka wrote: P.S: Incursion is a sink, not a faucet. Unless I'm mistaken (I could be, Incursions are the one thing in eve I don't know about), then the primary payout for Incursions is in the form of Concord LP, not bounties. Whelp... Ok then, my bad. I have lived in high/low/null/NPC/WH classes 1-5, but as I said, I know nothing about incursions. It's really the one part of eve I have never had an interest in.
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1478	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:09:00 - [30] - Quote MMOs can't havent been able to stop botting in almost 20 years. Good luck. Know how to stop botting? Quit putting in boring and repetitive mechanics and calling it game-play. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~

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