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Sticky:[Summer 2014] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 42 post(s)
RHAMHLAK Godlike Wannabe 0	Posted - 2014.04.16 07:36:00 - [571] - Quote Machariel is a damn shield ship, so make mach like it supposed to be. U need to work only at slots: 8H 6M 6L and we will have a true angel ship. Vindi is OK, Bhaal its the same, Rattle... i dont care about that ship so much to post anything , NM is a decent build and mach....she needs 6 medium slots!!!!
Liberty Hope Stabbed Hearts 0	Posted - 2014.04.16 07:44:00 - [572] - Quote Now when all bitching settled down, lets give some real examples how those ships should be changed and why T1 battleships are lerning/PVP cheap ships and have bonuses according to that Marauders are solot ships with bastions and local reper bonuses Faction navy ships are small scale fleet ships Pirate faction ships are purely fleet ships and according to that they should have fleet bonuses, for example, what Vindicator webs, whole fleet benefit from that, what Bhaalgorn paints, fleet benefits from that. Bhaalgorn should lost his TP range bonus and be pure armor dmg dealer and neuter, same bonus should apply to cap transfer amount and/or range Nightmare like Bhaal should have same bonuses but as shield ship. Machariel to have TP range bonus that Bhaal had, in that case not nerfing scan resolution so that Mach can lock 1st and aint target That includes +1 medium slot Rattlesnake to have TP strenght bonus, so that can actually apply that torp damage and to boost fleet with signature radius bonus on target. Dont know what do you guys think, but with this "fleet" bonuses i expect to see more pirate faction ships in pvp and other sort of big fleets.
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 607	Posted - 2014.04.16 07:59:00 - [573] - Quote RHAMHLAK wrote: Machariel is a damn shield ship, so make mach like it supposed to be. Angel ships are supposed to be armor ships. People shield tank it because you can get a good enough tank and have all the lows for damage and TEs. Your suggestion would actually weaken both the shield and the armor variant. Ahernar wrote: That or the RS pilots will have to change the way are using it. It could find itself a niche or it will become meh again . The chance to get it wrong again it's in the air. Oh no, someone will have to adapt! Rattle, as it currently stands, is about to become a very, very strong ship. If that means it needs to be a bit closer to the opponent, so be it. Liberty Hope wrote: Bhaalgorn should keep his web range bonus and be pure armor dmg dealer Just stop it, BR ships were never ment to be dpsers. Your suggestions only go down from there. Also, you're pidgeonholeing ships into a predetermined role. No. Just... no.
Frayze Nissai Divided Unity The Night Crew Alliance 8	Posted - 2014.04.16 08:35:00 - [574] - Quote Fabulous Rod wrote: Frayze Nissai wrote: Last Wolf wrote: Frayze Nissai wrote: You have heard of a module called the Mobile Depot yes? The one that allows you to change modules AND DRONES whilst in space? Or are you arguing that you would use your salvage drones whilst still engaged? I also fly an RS, i also chose it for its versatility. Do i feel screwed over by these new changes? Hell no, i have never been happier. I can now focus more on what is going on around me than on my 5 little guys HP bars, i can do significantlymore DPS, and with the mobile depot i keep a very high degree of versatility. 'I picked a ship with a large drone bay' - yes, one that at the time had a justifiably large bay as it needed to field 5 sentry drones (read 125 m3 of space) to put down maximum DPS. We now need to field 2 sentries (or 50m3) to do EXACTLY the same. So please, justify how we should keep a 400m3 drone bay??? As much as I agree that the 175 m3 bay is fine, using the Mobile Depot should not be used as a crutch for balancing a ship. The argument "The ship is fine because you can use Mobile Depot" is a bad one. It takes 60 seconds to activate, or are you seriously going to plop one down for every pocket you warp into, then hope you don't need to move or you don't get bumped away from it? I completely agree with you, i was attempting to show the stupidity of a post the stupidity is yours for bringing up mobile depots at all. I've never had a problem losing sentries. Try to think a little before you post. Wow, you win the competition for well thought out, reasoned posts. Try not to clutter the forums with your inane drivel, either that or carry on with your attempt to get CCP to go back on these changes, based on your need to field salvage drones, in combat, on a drone boat.... slow clap
Gauro Charante Vile Duck Pond 9	Posted - 2014.04.16 08:51:00 - [575] - Quote Wonder why they didn't make the SoE ships with the new "2-mega-badass drones"- style instead,and not Guristas. Then fewer would have complained so much, couse they wouldn't have played with them ships before. All new and so on...
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 39	Posted - 2014.04.16 09:49:00 - [576] - Quote Fabulous Rod wrote: Garak n00biachi wrote: That Mach buff makes no sense at all....this dev fell for the powercreep trap like many developers have fallen to it before him. While Rattlesnake loses more things than it gains and gets gimped on top of it all. 5 drones are better than 2. Just give us an extra mid slot on the Rattlesnake and the current 400m3 drone bay on a BATTLESHIP we trained for and you won't be shitting on your customers. customership as an argument to ship balancing you must be american

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 4103	Posted - 2014.04.16 10:39:00 - [577] - Quote Patri Andari wrote: In each case the bonus to Gurista ships states "bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage" without refering to heavy, heavy assault, etc. Does this mean that each ship will have bonuses that apply to all missiles that do said damage? To state more clearly, can we expect the damage bonus on the RS to also apply when firing thermal and kinetic missiles from RHML and RLML? Yes, the damage bonus will apply to RHML and RLML. I'm not sure if it helps settle anything but from my perspective the angel ships aren't necessarily meant to be armor or shield. They are capable of both and even though the ISIS says shields we are very happy with the versatility that Angel ships are capable of. Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry @ccp_rise

Vinyl 41 Perkone Academy 51	Posted - 2014.04.16 10:50:00 - [578] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Patri Andari wrote: In each case the bonus to Gurista ships states "bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage" without refering to heavy, heavy assault, etc. Does this mean that each ship will have bonuses that apply to all missiles that do said damage? To state more clearly, can we expect the damage bonus on the RS to also apply when firing thermal and kinetic missiles from RHML and RLML? Yes, the damage bonus will apply to RHML and RLML. I'm not sure if it helps settle anything but from my perspective the angel ships aren't necessarily meant to be armor or shield. They are capable of both and even though the ISIS says shields we are very happy with the versatility that Angel ships are capable of. Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry maybe im missing smt but a small 2% damage increase isnt smt we should call serious balance problems - i can only see that giving the mach 2 utility high slots could be the huge balance problem i would like to point that there have been some complains about mach having 1 to many slot overall so removing 1 high should be ok with most people
Pertuabo Enkidgan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 75	Posted - 2014.04.16 10:56:00 - [579] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry Shooting with the Machariel now is going to feel like walking with one shoe on.

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 4103	Posted - 2014.04.16 10:58:00 - [580] - Quote I didn't say serious, I said significant. It wouldn't just be a damage increase. It would be a heavier importance placed on a required skill, changes to fitting balance, changes in ammo consumption, change in fitting cost, potential effects on damage output and/or alpha. It's not unsolvable or something, it's just a lot of things that need to be accounted for and we don't think it's worth it in this case. @ccp_rise


epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 707	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:06:00 - [581] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Instead of a 5th launcher on the Rattlesnake, what about a 7th low slot or 8th mid slot instead? It would be much nicer with a damage bonus rather than an extra launcher, losing that drone link hurts. Sort of defeats the buff. And quoting comment earlier :- " makes you slowboat 20-30km after a mjd until you can engage with drones " Hopefully there's something with the new fittings that are promised for the summer that can allow this to be worked around? Otherwise it could be an issue. It would be a shame if the extra launcher gets unused/not fitted, as than the ship overall will have been nerfed, not buffed. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Vinyl 41 Perkone Academy 51	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:17:00 - [582] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: I didn't say serious, I said significant. It wouldn't just be a damage increase. It would be a heavier importance placed on a required skill, changes to fitting balance, changes in ammo consumption, change in fitting cost, potential effects on damage output and/or alpha. It's not unsolvable or something, it's just a lot of things that need to be accounted for and we don't think it's worth it in this case. i can partialy agree with this but there still remains the problem of the homogenization of the angel ships with t2 minmatar ship line are there any plan on creating a bigger difference between those and if yes would that be a good time to look again into the mach turret layout ?
Ambassador Spock Mindstar Technology Get Off My Lawn 35	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:25:00 - [583] - Quote CCP Rise, I'm curious about the rationale behind the agility nerf on the Mach. I'm not really displeased with any of the changes, in fact, I look forward to flying all of these ships post change. I'm just wondering why the Mach needed one of the things that made it unique and fun to fly nerfed? As a side note, you'll be happy to know that I fly the Mach and I'm really not bothered that it has 7 guns, not 6 or 8... -á-- -á- Ambassador Spock "Vulcans never bluff."
Dan Rae EVE University Ivy League 23	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:41:00 - [584] - Quote Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that?
Klarion Sythis Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate 279	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:43:00 - [585] - Quote Dan Rae wrote: Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that? As with all of the other Gurista ships, it's only meant to field a couple of highly bonused drones, not a full flight.
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 3334	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:43:00 - [586] - Quote Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote: Shooting with the Machariel now is going to feel like walking with one shoe on. It's now in good company with the Rattlesnake (5 launchers; it won't be symmetrical, either). Maybe we can get the Vindicator down to 7 launchers (with a utility high) and a +50% damage bonus insteadGÇª I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 707	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:45:00 - [587] - Quote Dan Rae wrote: Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that? Rattlesnake full flight is now 2 superdrones, the damage is the same as before and much much tougher to kill. It gets an extra launcher in exchange for losing up to 25km off your drone control range (launcher takes the place of a drone link augmentor) and a missile damage bonus too! There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 3334	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:58:00 - [588] - Quote Is there an outside possibility of getting a 6th launcher on the Rattlesnake so we have the option of running it as a dedicated missile platform? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 707	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:06:00 - [589] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Is there an outside possibility of getting a 6th launcher on the Rattlesnake so we have the option of running it as a dedicated missile platform? That would be a real shame, the character of the ship is really nice, Previously the drone damage and application was acceptable, a little less so after the omni changes, but still sort of bearable, but it needed a buff to make it comparable with other ships of it's class. 2 drones or 5 for same damage? Why not? No problem with that. Lights and mediums becoming unbonused?? Oops well we can work around it I guess. Losing 25km of drone range in order to use missiles? Ah, well there's your problem! Missile bonus or use drones?? Hmm the choice leaves one with less than before it seems. Initially very excited, after looking deeper, not so much. CCP rise has asked for input, here it is. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1931	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:08:00 - [590] - Quote dear CCP Rise, if you are reading this, could you please comment on the following: Daniel Plain wrote: i agree with the criticism of role bonuses versus battleship skill bonuses. it's kind of silly that a paladin with Marauders IV deals less dps than a nightmare with Caldari and Gallente Battleship I (disregarding the range bonuses ofc.). in my opinion there is nothing wrong with splitting the bonuses into one basic part and one scaling part and have the pirate ship hulls get three or even four scaling bonuses total. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF

Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 3334	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:08:00 - [591] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: That would be a real shame, the character of the ship is really niceGÇª Not really. It's a hybrid platform anyway... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 707	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:14:00 - [592] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: That would be a real shame, the character of the ship is really niceGÇª Not really. It's a hybrid platform anyway... Hybrid is character too. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Morukk Nuamzzar EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 5	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:18:00 - [593] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly. But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat? So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise. So what are you saying, that 5 unbonused light drones are suddenly unable to deal with a few frigates?
Last Wolf Umbra Wing 122	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:19:00 - [594] - Quote why are people complaining about losing drone control range? If you need the second DLA more than 25% more missile damage then only fit 4 launchers. You still get 50% More missile dps than you currently do. Vacuums suck.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 707	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:22:00 - [595] - Quote Morukk Nuamzzar wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly. But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat? So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise. So what are you saying, that 5 unbonused light drones are suddenly unable to deal with a few frigates? No what I am saying is that you have 25km less range and time to shoot them in and if you fail, it is harder and takes longer to kill them, If you are overwhelmed and you MJD away, then you have to wait for 2510 seconds (over two minutes) burning towards them , before you can reengage them with your sentries. Of course you can kill them eventually, but it's Not exactly improving gameplay is it? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE*
War Kitten Panda McLegion 5188	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:24:00 - [596] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: I didn't say serious, I said significant. It wouldn't just be a damage increase. It would be a heavier importance placed on a required skill, changes to fitting balance, changes in ammo consumption, change in fitting cost, potential effects on damage output and/or alpha. It's not unsolvable or something, it's just a lot of things that need to be accounted for and we don't think it's worth it in this case. Oh come on, live a little. What's a balance change without one slightly OP ship? Besides, you nerfed it a little and it's new role bonus is only moderately useful. Let it live a little with 6 turrets, adjusted damage bonus to the same DPS, 2 utilities and call it a day. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 707	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:25:00 - [597] - Quote Last Wolf wrote: why are people complaining about losing drone control range? If you need the second DLA more than 25% more missile damage then only fit 4 launchers. You still get 50% More missile dps than you currently do. Possibly because it is a drone ship? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Morukk Nuamzzar EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 5	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:38:00 - [598] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: No what I am saying is that you have 25km less range and time to shoot them in and if you fail, it is harder and takes longer to kill them, If you are overwhelmed and you MJD away, then you have to wait for 25*10 seconds (over two minutes) burning towards them , before you can reengage them with your sentries. Of course you can kill them eventually, but it's Not exactly improving gameplay is it? There are only a few missions I can remember where frigates are 100km off or more anyway so how's that a problem? Besides, why wouldn't you jump somewhat earlier thus keeping your range the whole time?
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 707	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:49:00 - [599] - Quote Morukk Nuamzzar wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: No what I am saying is that you have 25km less range and time to shoot them in and if you fail, it is harder and takes longer to kill them, If you are overwhelmed and you MJD away, then you have to wait for 2510 seconds (over two minutes) burning towards them , before you can reengage them with your sentries. Of course you can kill them eventually, but it's Not exactly improving gameplay is it? There are only a few missions I can remember where frigates are 100km off or more anyway so how's that a problem? Besides, why wouldn't you jump somewhat earlier thus keeping your range the whole time? It is more an issue that if you use the MJD you are out of range more often than not now. The frigate issue can be dealt with, not a big problem, but certainly a negative point in the overall balance of the ship, the real issue is that the character of the ship is significantly altered, that is not automatically a problem, but it is something to take into account, and the buff to missiles, directly effects it's abilities as a drone boat, and if all is taken into account, if you take advantage of the missile buff, you lose drone capability, if you do not, you lose capability. So the rattlesnake needed a buff to make it comparable, it is less of a buff than appeared initially. If 25% drone control range was built into the bonuses, then the rattlesnake will gain the missile buff and will only have lost the ability to field 7.5 effective lights or mediums, and the loss of tracking and range in the new omnidirectional links,the cap use of the omnis is dealable with. That is perfectly acceptable and will then be the overall buff that was needed. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE*
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1030	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:56:00 - [600] - Quote War Kitten wrote: CCP Rise wrote: I didn't say serious, I said significant. It wouldn't just be a damage increase. It would be a heavier importance placed on a required skill, changes to fitting balance, changes in ammo consumption, change in fitting cost, potential effects on damage output and/or alpha. It's not unsolvable or something, it's just a lot of things that need to be accounted for and we don't think it's worth it in this case. Oh come on, live a little. What's a balance change without one slightly OP ship? Besides, you nerfed it a little and it's new role bonus is only moderately useful. Let it live a little with 6 turrets, adjusted damage bonus to the same DPS, 2 utilities and call it a day. If one OP slightly OP ship is not a problem then one slightly UP one won't be either right? Just cut one turret and only compensate for 80% of the dmg lost to also cover for lower ammo usage and lower fitting cost. Little OP, little UP, whats the difference right?



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