why do some have 19 slots and the mach/vindi has 20?

Snake prices going up now?

Finally we get to the battleships!

MACHARIEL

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff

Minmatar Battleship Bonus:
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
note: This ship has increased warp speed and warp acceleration

Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 7 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 17950 PWG, 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9320 / 9250 / 8260
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5800 / 1154000ms(-875) / 5.02
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 161 / .096(+.012) / 94680000 / 12.60(+1.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+13km) / 125(-25) / 7
Sensor strength: 26
Signature radius: 350(+10)

Can you confirm a warp speed of 3.0 AU/s? Also, 7 turrets just looks godawful. Could we please look at dropping this to 6 turrets, swapping a high for a mid slot and changing the role bonus to a 37.5% rate of fire instead?

I believe because when the models were updated there wasn't room for the number of effective turrets needed so they were given less slots with larger role bonuses. The Rattlesnake has less because of drones. We talked about adjusting for them all to have the same number but we like where the balance is for them and didn't feel it was worth messing with just for the sake of making the slot count match.

At 497 mill still. I was on board earlier.

Super sentries. Told you, Arthur.

At 497 mill still. I was on board earlier.

This will at least shut up the people who were ready to scream bloody murder if The 'Snake only got bonuses to heavies lol.

This will at least shut up the people who were ready to scream bloody murder if The 'Snake only got bonuses to heavies lol.

Machariel
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 161 / .096(+.012) / 94680000 / 12.60(+1.5)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+13km) / 125(-25) / 7
Signature radius: 350(+10)

****
More bonuses for Nightmares DPS, at least nerf Tachyons.

Dirty lazor lovers, it is hard to get in fleet with mach even now, after this it will be impossible.
FU CCP and eat drops

Can we please get an update on the new warp speeds for Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel?

****
More bonuses for Nightmares DPS, at least nerf Tachyons

surely the Nightmare needs a lot more agility .. you expect it be using a AB so surely it needs to turn a bit ... 13 secs maybe??

Dramiel 7.5AU/sec
Cynabal 4.5AU/sec
Machariel 3.0AU/sec

No, Nightmare DPS is still the same. Unless of course you are considering the extra low slot which will make no difference as the NM has always had enough room for a full suite of heat sinks. I am thinking you don't know how to multiply percentages.

Damn was really hoping snake wouldn't have a sentry bonus and just a heavy bonus. Looking OP.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of an increased align time, loss of scan resolution and increase in signature radius. What was the rationale for these changes since every other Pirate battleship seemed to get a buff?

It's borderline OP now... I love it, but it doesn't need any more buffs... Extra low & a massive speed boost w/AB... Awesome.

It's borderline OP now... I love it, but it doesn't need any more buffs... Extra low & a massive speed boost w/AB... Awesome.

Now we've got past the yes man posts, this is accurate.

it needs to turn to make use of the AB .. a lot of the changes aren't consistent ..its like they decided at in the frigate thread what will happen to the cruisers and battleships just with scaling up .. no really in depth reviews on them ..
a bit of a copy paste job it looks like ... Rise literally copy pasted some of the frigate stats on the cruisers already..

We might actually see them in pvp now. As currently I don't see any nightmares in pvp, which indicates how dire the situation was for the Nightmare outside of a PVE setting. So good changes, although definitely not borderline OP. It has been bought up to the level of the other pirate BSs now.

Oh, you like to fly rattlesnake?
Let me rework it and completly fu*k everything up

Rattle is AWESOME. Please update it on TQ NOW! Screw testing.

How so? Same drone DPS, added big missile dps buff. Its a straight up buff unless missile range was a big thing for you.... what are you all greetin' aboot?

Damn was really hoping snake wouldn't have a sentry bonus and just a heavy bonus. Looking OP.

You don't see many pirate BS fleets anyway and even if you do tracking dreads will still zonk abing BS's

I dunno actually. The 275% bonus means 7.5 effective drones, the same as before, unless I'm using failmaths. The real difference is missile DPS and drone assigning. With Ogres and Rage torps (yeah yeah, I know...) you can get it to 1723 DPS with 3x DDA II and 2x BCS II, which is really quite impressive. More realistic is CN cruise though, for 1367 DPS. Still with Ogres that is.

it needs to turn to make use of the AB .. a lot of the changes aren't consistent ..its like they decided at in the frigate thread what will happen to the cruisers and battleships just with scaling up .. no really in depth reviews on them ..
a bit of a copy paste job it looks like ... Rise literally copy pasted some of the frigate stats on the cruisers already..

I've seen loads of machs and vindicators being used for pvp. The Bhaalgorn also obviously is widely used. The Rattlesnake and Nightmare where the only two I never saw much of.

Aboot? CANADIAN DETECTED, Burn the maple syrupy heretic!

Well technically you don't need battleship V to get the DPS bonus, so semi-buff?

So the new Rattlesnake and Nightmare rock, the Bhaalgorn got a buff, the Vindicator got a huge targeting range buff and the Machariel got slightly nerfed. We won't even talk about the NestorGǪ But back to the Machariel - CCP Rise, could you please share your thoughts on the tweaks and what has been proposed with respect to 6 turrets (yes, some of us have OCD) and an increased rate of fire?

Scottish, slightly different pronunciation ;)

Oh, you like to fly rattlesnake?
Let me rework it and completly fu*k everything up

Shame about the nerf to the rattlesnake.

We might actually see them in pvp now. As currently I don't see any nightmares in pvp, which indicates how dire the situation was for the Nightmare outside of a PVE setting. So good changes, although definitely not borderline OP. It has been bought up to the level of the other pirate BSs now.

I spent a lot of time skilling up for my Rattlesnake, because I like missiles and sentries and the flexibility of a huge drone bay.

I could cope with the drone changes but the drone bay reduction simply kills the ship for me.

With all the time it takes to skill up for a BS you should be careful when you mess with it.

Who's using Rattlesnake now? Do you have a player profile for who flies that ship?

Keep that profile in mind when you work on the new specs, please.

****
More bonuses for Nightmares DPS, at least nerf Tachyons.

Dirty lazor lovers, it is hard to get in fleet with mach even now, after this it will be impossible.
FU CCP and eat drops

The changes to he mach are extremely minor, not even worthy of being called nerfs. 360 sig is still under the standard resolution of BS sized weapons. It's getting a much much needed boost to lock range too, and the warp speed change is pure gold. The Mach is fine.

whats so important about 6 turrets? Do you get stir crazy by flying the sabre with 7 turrets too?

What nerf O_o Its ******* glorious now...C:

I could live with the loss in align time, scan resolution and signature bloom if we got some "turret symmetry" with 6 turrets, a 37.5% ROF and a revised slot layout of 7/6/7. So say we all.

whats so important about 6 turrets? Do you get stir crazy by flying the sabre with 7 turrets too?

Respectfully, I disagree on a few points. It lost 17% scan resolution for a 20% increase in targeting range (which on the Machariel isn't necessarily needed, unlike the Vindicator). Scan resolution is a tad more important. The signature radius is a minor issue but the increased align time goes against the new warp speed increase (which I'm assuming will be 3.0 AU/s, but would like confirmation).

Never flown the Sabre.

whats so important about 6 turrets? Do you get stir crazy by flying the sabre with 7 turrets too?

I'm very glad you decided to not ruin the Rattlesnake but why did the missile velocity bonus need to be removed? The velocity bonus fit perfectly into the playstyle and versatility of the ship.

Also, why do the drones bays have to be so limited on these ships?

I'm a little disappointed that the rattlesnake stays at 7.5 effective drones, though 375% of a heavy drone is pretty nasty. I can understand the reasoning with sentries included, since anything bigger would have just wiped everything off grid.

Hooray for the extra launcher and damage bonus to missiles, that should improve it's presence some.

Why does the rattle get a sentry bonus? Not like I don't want it, it just doesn't feel right.

yeah, I'm not understanding this either. Since when have eve ships been symmetrical.

yeah, I'm not understanding this either. Since when have eve ships been symmetrical.

but less range on them - the velocity bonus is gone.

and once again, the versatility of 5 utility/support drones is GONE

275% of 2 is not 7.5, it's 5.5

275% of 2 is not 7.5, it's 5.5

Front page baby!

OH MY GOD YOU DIDN'T NERF THE MACH!!!1

Edit: what may your logic behind giving the nightmare 30% bonus to AB speed rather than 20% like the rest of the line be?

but less range on them - the velocity bonus is gone.

and once again, the versatility of 5 utility/support drones is GONE

275% of 2 is not 7.5, it's 5.5

but less range on them - the velocity bonus is gone.

and once again, the versatility of 5 utility/support drones is GONE

275% of 2 is not 7.5, it's 5.5

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

By the way, are we going to be getting True Sansha afterburners now?

but less range on them - the velocity bonus is gone.

and once again, the versatility of 5 utility/support drones is GONE

275% of 2 is not 7.5, it's 5.5

but at 275% for 2 drones, your getting 4-3/4 drones which is less than the base effective 5 drones it could deploy more.

Funny you mention that directly below an argument detailing it as being 7.5 effective drones.

Obviously the Nightmare idea is popular as Gist X-Type 100MN ABs have already been practically swept off the market; really glad I nabbed one for 105mil before the madness.

From what I can tell, the Rattlesnake's missile velocity bonus was pretty much worthless, especially for cruise missiles, since those missiles have always been secondary weapons on the Rattler, and cruise missiles would shoot out beyond the Rattler's lock range even without the velocity bonus, while torpedoes would be short-range secondary weapons in either case, and no other missiles would have that bonus.

Now, any kinetic or thermal missile you launch from a Rattler will have added punch, and it'll throw more of them at a time, so the Rattlesnake is no longer a less-well-bonused shield-tank Dominix, but a respectable missile platform as well as a hard-hitting drone boat. And tracking amps in the lows will free up those seven mids for other interesting things as well...

I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to be in the thread today guys but I wanted to get it posted anyway.

The only thing I have to respond to at the moment is to confirm that the warp speed increase for the mach is exactly 50% (going up to 3). We'll probably go ahead and list this in the ship traits somehow even though it's just a base attribute since it's so unusual.

I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to be in the thread today guys but I wanted to get it posted anyway.

The only thing I have to respond to at the moment is to confirm that the warp speed increase for the mach is exactly 50% (going up to 3). We'll probably go ahead and list this in the ship traits somehow even though it's just a base attribute since it's so unusual.

6 turrets, 37.5% ROF, one less high - one more midGǪ (hint, hint)
Thanks for the confirmation on the warp speed.

Could you confirm what the effective drones of the Rattlesnake is now?

windowsbutton - calc - "2 + 275%, enter = 7,5"

How hard was that?

6 turrets, 37.5% ROF, one less high - one more midGǪ (hint, hint)
Thanks for the confirmation on the warp speed.

1 more low for armor mach ^_^

Finally we get to the battleships!

NIGHTMARE

Amarr Battleship Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
30% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L(+1); 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 14500 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 10550(+815) / 8650(-45) / 8200(-60)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 6950 / 1154000ms(-875) / 6.0
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 114(+20) / .122(-.014) / 99300000 / 17.76s(-1.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets):80km / 110(+10) / 7
Sensor strength: 28
Signature radius: 370(-30)

=========================

6 turrets, 37.5% ROF, one less high - one more midGǪ (hint, hint)
Thanks for the confirmation on the warp speed.

Straight up buff to the NM <3

Shield incursion runners are dancing in the streets.
Armour incursion runners are now looking at dumping any laser boat but the Nightmare.

surely the Nightmare needs a lot more agility .. you expect it be using a AB so surely it needs to turn a bit ... 13 secs maybe??

Finally we get to the battleships!


========================================================================================

VINDICATOR

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed

Minmatar Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff

Role Bonus:
37.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage


Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 8 turrets, 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 17500 PWG, 630 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8750(+55) / 9300 / 10500
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 6330 / 1154000ms(-875) / 5.48
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 132(+6) / .083(-.005) / 105200000 / 12.10s(-.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km(+22.5) / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 28
Signature radius: 400

========================================================================================

MACHARIEL

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff

Minmatar Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
note: This ship has increased warp speed and warp acceleration


Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 7L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 17950 PWG, 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9320 / 9250 / 8260
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5800 / 1154000ms(-875) / 5.02
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 161 / .096(+.012) / 94680000 / 12.60(+1.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+13km) / 125(-25) / 7
Sensor strength: 26
Signature radius: 350(+10)

FInally!!! 25% DPS plus for NM. Well done with +1L!
I might test the AB even though Im used to play this as POS for cap reasons.

But honestly, dont really care for AB Bonus. DPS bonus was a must. THX.

Only thing missing ist 150m3 drone bay. Could then bring 3 sentries and a flight or two of smalls and a flight of salv.. but thats for summer 2016.. .lol

Shield incursion runners are dancing in the streets.
Armour incursion runners are now looking at dumping any laser boat but the Nightmare.

But what about it's impact on null sec... where is all your Grr everything except Highsec drivel. What is going on in this world.

From what I can tell, the Rattlesnake's missile velocity bonus was pretty much worthless, especially for cruise missiles,

I think, a web bonus on the vindicator is useless and too powerfull in pvp.

MACHARIEL

I feel as though the Gurista ship line changes hurt them as pve ships. The Gila especially as now its drones just get shot down otw to targets.

Meh, the snake still sucks. (Keep in mind I'm referring to PVE only) I stopped using them after the omni nerf and they've done nothing to the platform to make me want to pick them back up. Even with the drone "changes". I'll gladly sell the 4-5 I have at a healthy profit though. At least the other pirate ships are *BETTER* at a their roles/niches than most other ships that could fill them. There really is nothing it does that another ship doesn't do better. I feel like the devs haven't really looked at the graphic of how ships were supposed to be that was shown at fanfest last year.

Anyway, my point is I don't see these changing the pirate BS meta in any significant way. People that flew, Vindis, Machs and Nightmares are still going to fly them now, and people that didn't fly the RS are still not going to fly them now... so I guess the devs win this round?

The DPS hasn't changed... It still has 10 effective turrets. (Before 4*2*1.25=10, now 4*2.5=10)

nice nerfs there bro

Ishtar is the new Gila
Dominix is the new Rattlesnake

While I maxed out hybrid skills years ago missiles were just more fun. Thats why I speced into the Gila and Rattle. Drones + Missiles, now nothing fits this formula really.

I'm scared!

The rattle is well overbonused compared to the gila and worm.... no consistency at all .. unjustifiable really

While I maxed out hybrid skills years ago missiles were just more fun. Thats why I speced into the Gila and Rattle. Drones + Missiles, now nothing fits this formula really.

too allow them too focus it on its strengths and add new ones...

- stronger projectile damage and projection - so they are actual masters of projectiles
- drone nerf.. well who kites with heavies anyway?
- sig reduction and mwd sig pen reduction allows you too take less damage...
- armour nerf - well they are supposed too be shield tanked anyway and the extra mid allows for stronger tank here

Well, I have to say, these changes do improve the shield incursion groups, and most likely the armour incursion groups.
Yes, these changes (except for the Rattlesnake) improve performance pretty much across the board for ALL potential uses of the ship classes.

So yeah, high sec was thrown a bone with this one, after god knows how many nerfs.
But we have yet to see if incursions take a nerf overall, yet.

And yeah, null sec STILL makes out nicely with this, because the vast majority of the BPC's for these ships come from null sec, so a nice buff in income for null.

We still won't see PvP fleets of pirate BS's (outside of maybe the Bhaal killing capital ship capacitors), solely based on the costs of the hulls.

We still won't see PvP fleets of pirate BS's (outside of maybe the Bhaal killing capital ship capacitors), solely based on the costs of the hulls.

Ishtar is the new Gila
Dominix is the new Rattlesnake

Shield incursion runners are dancing in the streets.
Armour incursion runners are now looking at dumping any laser boat but the Nightmare.

Lets be real for a sec. The Nightmare is getting explicitly buffed, that's fine, it wasn't particularly special before, and now it might be.
Bhaalgorn getting buffed as well, pretty substantially too. This is fine, maybe it will finally get used for something other than capital fights.
Vindicator. An agility buff? Alright, sweet. I don't know why but I'll take it.
Machariel I am sad about. The agility nerf is going to really alter it's feel, make it much easier to catch. Warpspeed is cool, but I bought ascendancies to take care of that. I'd rather have in combat prowess than a logistical update. I think this helps high sec mission/incursion runners but wrecks it for pvp.

Finally the rattlesnake.... it sucks. Heavy and sentry bonus exclusively, so it's pigeonholed into 2 options. Also, with a mbit of 50 and a bay of 175 it can carry 3.5 waves? seriously? just give it 200... Or give it a universal bonus. I mean a bonus to just heavy+sentry damage is already the WORST bonus it could get. Heavies are too slow (even with proposed changes to heavy dronse) and sentries are made by the opti/tracking bonus a la dominix/ishtar. The current rattlesnake is vastly preferable to the on you've proposed. Either give it a general drone damage bonus (tragic these days really) or give it the bonuses necessary to make heavies/sentries competitive - heavy+sentry tracking, and heavy drone velocity (I am omitting sentry optimal deliberately here)

My predictions for the Guristas ships were correct...

I wonder if my predictions for the AT prizes are correct...

- stronger projectile damage and projection - so they are actual masters of projectiles
- drone nerf.. well who kites with heavies anyway?
- sig reduction and mwd sig pen reduction allows you too take less damage...
- armour nerf - well they are supposed too be shield tanked anyway and the extra mid allows for stronger tank here

That Mach "bonuses" are not helping incursioners, Mach will sit on gate alone and wait if he gets in fleet, because for sniping Nightmare is geting way over mach

these rattles will be nasty for AT.. kitey sentries with cruises and huge tank.. like we need more sentry boats..

Ahh.. my bad. right. too bad at all. damn it.

But wait:

4 Turrets * (100% Bonus + 25%) = 9 Turrets
4 Turrets * 150% = 10 Turrets.

??

That Mach "bonuses" are not helping incursioners, Mach will sit on gate alone and wait if he gets in fleet, because for sniping Nightmare is geting way over mach

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

incursions should really be nerfed to compensate for these BS buffs

While I maxed out hybrid skills years ago missiles were just more fun. Thats why I speced into the Gila and Rattle. Drones + Missiles, now nothing fits this formula really.

And so it begins.....

Rattle is still Missile + Drones..... But even better at the missiles part, and still the same at the drone part. I don't get why people are complaining other than they just want something to complain about.

That Mach "bonuses" are not helping incursioners, Mach will sit on gate alone and wait if he gets in fleet, because for sniping Nightmare is geting way over mach

The Nightmare is receiving a 150% bonus to AB speed, am I reading this correctly?

Me gusto.

But what about it's impact on null sec... where is all your Grr everything except Highsec drivel. What is going on in this world.

please no

[GÇô]popgalveston Minmatar 13 points 1 hour ago
Please stop it with missile bonuses benefitting from Gallente skills.....

[GÇô]Walican132 Blood Raiders 8 points 1 hour ago
I wonder the logic behind the snake getting bonuses sentries instead of just heavy. Either way rattlesnake fleet will break the drone assist cap so that's a small victory.

That Mach "bonuses" are not helping incursioners, Mach will sit on gate alone and wait if he gets in fleet, because for sniping Nightmare is geting way over mach

forgive my third grade math skills, but is it safe to assume rattlesnake and nightmare are getting damage boosts?

hmm looks like PL just got a new "cat"

lets call them snake cats...

with the way drone assist works now.

50 drones is 25 guys which is loads better then 10 guys.

Rattlesnake is, Nightmare isn't gaining damage (but is gaining a low which may help with damage or application depending on fit).

Great, back to ****** gameplay mechanics again.