The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.

But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...

I don't see the point.

EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.

No. Ceptor fleets are a lot of fun exactly because you cannot be caught easily. It's not the only fun in the game in terms of fleet roams, but it certainly is a lot of fun, because you can cover large areas of space in a fairly short amount of time and are not stuck at one place. That is great. Learn to live with it, it's your CSM members who endorsed this change anyways.

Besides, Ceptor fleets are very easy to counter or to stop with various existing means. If your idea came through, however, then this scripted bubble should not be able to stop non-nullified ships and only affect those with nullification.

Smart bombing gate camps.

htfu etc.

Really, do i detect the risk averse mentality here? Does this suddenly have a place in eve Online when it does not come from some HS miner?

Anywhoo.

It would be better to have to make the choice to counter Interceptors on Interdictors when fitting the ship with a special module overcoming the specific nullified effects. This would also make it more dangerous for T3's to roam around.

Although the impunity witch Inteceptors now have seems a bit silly. There is no ship that can warp faster, move faster on grid or enjoy the safety of bubble free roaming like it. And i like the fact that nullsec carebears no longer have the safety of 900 anchored warp bubbles on gates the immense speed inties enjoy on all levels makes forming a counter fleet near impossible unless you have your own ceptor fleet standing by.

To not have everyone just spam the module only interdictors sould be able to fit the 'anti-nullify' module and it requires ammo equal in size to the cap booster 400's maybe? This would generate an option to fit specific ships as anti-inteceptor with Scram (anti MWD) Web (anti AB and general speed) and the anti nullify module. This would mean 3 modules, ammo and a heavy skill requirement for the ships to counter the easy peasy inty roams.

No. Ceptor fleets are a lot of fun exactly because you cannot be caught easily. It's not the only fun in the game in terms of fleet roams, but it certainly is a lot of fun, because you can cover large areas of space in a fairly short amount of time and are not stuck at one place. That is great. Learn to live with it, it's your CSM members who endorsed this change anyways.

Besides, Ceptor fleets are very easy to counter or to stop with various existing means. If your idea came through, however, then this scripted bubble should not be able to stop non-nullified ships and only affect those with nullification.

HIC idea is fine. Borderline uncatchable is not. This also means nullified T3 get F'd by the HIC though.

+1

EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.

this would be game breaking - so no
the damn things are so fragile...... I imagine an assault frig fleet might have some fun, as would a smart-bombing BS group

3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic

No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic.

Bubbles are one of the most interesting, tactically useful mechanics in the game.

Sure, gate camps are boring, but my suggestion doesn't prevent a nullified ship from passing through a gate camp. It does, however, mean that you have to be a bit more prepared in your travels than simply boarding a nullified ship.

Different strokes, I guess. In my opinion, bubbles give the campers/home team a game-breaking advantage, and I think you know this. Before the interceptor change, traveling from point A to point B could be completely shut down by an active gate camp. On paper, this might sound very appropriate for EVE's harsh universe, but I think that in practice, it just translated to poor gameplay.

After having tried hisec, lowsec, and nullsec, I'm starting to think that lowsec offers some of the best gameplay, and the lack of bubbles is a huge part of this. When we get a pod in low, it means we had competent fast-tackle, and even then, the pilot probably still had a chance to get his pod out provided they knew what they were doing.

I respect that you enjoy the null-life, and support your right to bubbles. Just saying that nullified intys provided a much needed fix to this broken game mechanic.

I'm not a fan of "You shall not pass" gate camps. When I'm out soloing though, I often use drag/catch bubbles to pull ships off a gate or a Jump bridge so I can destroy them, as well as dictate my engagement starting range.

My changes to Nullification would still allow you to move from point A to point B fairly unmolested. It does mean that you cannot warp gate to gate though, as you may be caught in a drag bubble. This makes having tacs around a gate and preplanning yoru route much more important, as obstacles may exist on your route.

Currently, the nullified system essentially allows you to ignore obstacles, and I don't think that is a good thing. Granted, a ReSebo'd ship can still catch your inty, especially thanks to the agility changes.

However, now the inty is a better recon ship than covops, and that is just wrong.

I think maybe we're forgetting that we're talking about a single ship class here. Interceptors used to be fairly useless flying coffins. Now they actually have a role which you already covered: "having tacs around a gate and preplanning your route". The only opposition I have to your idea is that it proposes a nerf where I'd rather see a buff. If interdiciton nullifier was a module that could be fit to any ship, that would be a different situation.

The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.

But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...

I don't see the point.

EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.

Currently, the nullified system essentially allows you to ignore obstacles, and I don't think that is a good thing. Granted, a ReSebo'd ship can still catch your inty, especially thanks to the agility changes. However, now the inty is a better recon ship than covops, and that is just wrong.

and the counters are very limited
- smartbomb theory, yeah show us your dozen of killed ceptor fleets please
- the truth is, by the time you have found the right pipe and moved your BSes 3 jumps there are in the next region already

maybe counter an inty gang with an ACTUAL INTY gang

Oh dear lord ... I really have to write counters down after all. I would be embarrassed, but I am not you:

1. T1 Destroyers like Arty Thrashers or Talwars eat ceptors for breakfast.
2. Smartbomb camps
3. insta-locking camps/ships
4. long range ceptor fleets
5. Cruiser fleets
6. Assault Frig fleets
7. Any fleet with webbing/long range tackle ships
8. Any fleet with webbing ships and drone boats
9. Any fleet that can neut on medium and long range
10. ...

You see, this is at least 9 general counters to any ceptor fleet. LEARN. TO. PLAY.

I guess you did not get it
it is not a question of whatever fleet concept can kill them

The issue is, ceptor fleets usually dont fight anything
most of them avoid every possible fight
they jump in and warp off if you have more than 3 ships of whatever

no and I dont want to setup remote sebo gate camps to maybe kill 1 ceptor

The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.

But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...

I don't see the point.

EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.

The issue is, ceptor fleets usually dont fight anything
most of them avoid every possible fight
they jump in and warp off if you have more than 3 ships of whatever

no and I dont want to setup remote sebo gate camps to maybe kill 1 captor

The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.

But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

Actually, I'd like to see the bubble immunity expanded to assault frigates and electronic attack frigates as well.

They could act as spearhead forces in warfare, constantly putting on pressure that the defender has to deal with.

In my opinion the ceptor nulify thing is a bad design
why were they introduced?
- to make scouting easier?
--> was fine before

- that you can catch something behind 50T2 anchored bubbles on evry ratting systems
--> sure always good idea to introduce a bad design to counter antoher bad design

- to travel faster
--> you can do this w/o nulified thingy
--> maybe a better map design helps as well

how is it used today
50+ ceptors fleets evry day
to gank one ship and run away as soon as 3 ships undock
the running away mode starts as soon as your ceptor fleet undock
must be the fun for the real man which I just dont understand

and the counters are very limited
- smartbomb theory, yeah show us your dozen of killed ceptor fleets please
- the truth is, by the time you have found the right pipe and moved your BSes 3 jumps there are in the next region already

The ceptor nullification has to be my single most favourite change to the game in the past years, along with the warp speed buffs.

It's ridicilous how there are people out there who unironically believe that 68 T2 large bubbles (I counted) on a gate making their system practically a 100% risk-free peaceful ratting zone is good and balanced gameplay. God forbid actually having to defend your space empire.

If anything, bubble immunity should extend to more stuff. On a fleet scale bubbles are an amazingly good mechanic, but against individuals and tiny gangs they're a ridicilously crappy one. The obvious issue is that anything you give to individuals will also inevitably be usable by fleets.

EDIT: Also, the uncatchable ceptors were nerfed. To go below 2.0 align time you'll have to gimp your fit to a great degree and also probably use Snakes or something. Practically any actual fleet ceptor will take 3 or more server ticks to align, which makes them catchable by instalocking stuff.

So basicly you just want to be able to gatecamp ?

What about bringing the fight in to the anoms like today?

yeah i know you lost a couple of carriers and some navy ships, but you also killed quite a few ceptors.

A single 2.0s align time interceptor has no problems of killing stuff like Ishtar/VNI ratters which are popular enough that probably 30-40 die every day in Deklein. In fact Deklein has a lot of insta locking gate camps so you can't even fly a non 2.0s interceptor there right now so pretty much everyone are flying them. A TriDOT member on this very page says he has flown nothing else except these kinds of fleets for weeks and then you come here to argue that no one flies them?

So in your opinion 100% risk free ratting thanks to bubbles (rofl) was not "good and balaned gameplay" but the total flip side of that as in being able to ignore all bubbles, gate camps and whatever is? Weird opinion you have there buddy.


A single 2.0s align time interceptor has no problems of killing stuff like Ishtar/VNI ratters which are popular enough that probably 30-40 die every day in Deklein. In fact Deklein has a lot of insta locking gate camps so you can't even fly a non 2.0s interceptor there right now so pretty much everyone are flying them. A TriDOT member on this very page says he has flown nothing else except these kinds of fleets for weeks and then you come here to argue that no one flies them?

Any form of active defense from the people living in the region should be able to counter roaming gangs and the roamers should need to fight those active defenders and not just ignore them.

So lets see here.

Step1: you and your like put up 239847 gazillion bubbles on a gate to be able to rat riskfree and make roaming impossible
Step2: CCP brings interdiction nullified ceppies to game, thus ratters start to die more often
Step3: You start making instalock gatecamps, Smartbomb BS camps and sutch to stop interceptor gangs
Step4: Someone comes up with the <2s align interceptor fit to prevent these camps and to be able to keep roaming
Step5: You cry on forums for a ship being too OP

Well, why dont you take a look in the mirror a bit there laddie? Maybe if you were not so stupidly trying to prevent ppl from roaming, there propably would be more other shipclasses in your space for you to kill.

Also it seems that the CFC mentality is that tears in hsec are best of everything and yet when someone makes you tear a lot in 0.0 its so wrong it needs to be nerfed.

HTFU and learn to rat. Is not that difficult to prevent the ratters from dying. However, they WILL die, if they are not alert. From my personal experience I can tell, that NONE of the ratters, who pay attention to the game get cought. NONE. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them gets to a safepos or station. It's the ones who are AFK or doing something else simultaneousily to die.

If you look at theing on bigger perspective than your own lil weird world, you will propably notice, that only now after warpspeed changes and interdiction nullified ceppies is the first time since introducing sov anomalies that ratters actually haveto pay attention and keep focused instead of being AFK. Now is the first time in YEARS that roaming is fun again. You should try it sometime. It really is fun as hell.

Eve in nullsec is based on communities. In communities we help each other. Corporations in your alliance may hate each other and do stuff behind each others' back but I want to help the fellow goon.

And as it happens the best way of dealing with roaming gangs is to kill them. The worst way of dealing with roaming gangs is to ignore them.

A lot of what you wrote above sounds nice and all, and I may even generally agree with a lot of it but this last bit is such an easy thing to say by someone in the biggest independent entity in game. "Just fight us. C'mon, we only outnumber you by 247:1 against, that's like almost fair".

One of the reasons (AFAIK) for the whole inty gang concept was to make your fleet size as irrelevant as possible. For once, CFC is not able to win through sheer number of pilots present. That, IMO, is much more balanced than what you suggest above.

You should not be any more safe than any other pilot in the Eve universe and, currently, you are not.

PPS. I'll have to agree with the "fight in the anomalies" stuff above. I've been on at least 3 inty roams where CFC had an instalock camp at a gate, we avoided it and killed an Ishtar or two in the anomalies in the same system while your instalock camp just instalock camped at the gate. Maybe if they'd actually warped to the anomalies the Ishtars would have lived. I don't know, maybe not, but it's a possibility your Ishtars never had because it was more important to instalock camp the gate. You know, defending your space.

well the repsonse fleet could just warp in to anomalies where the ratters are tackled.

First of all I have made my opinions on 2.0s interceptors very clear from day one. While that was in more regarding using them as cyno platforms that still stands. Uncatchable ships are not fun to me and I think they take a lot away from this game.


Eve in nullsec is based on communities. In communities we help each other. Corporations in your alliance may hate each other and do stuff behind each others' back but I want to help the fellow goon. Unfortunately, as it has often been advertised over the years, the fellow goon happens to be rather slow and not very good at playing this game. So I want to assist him to gather ISK for his battleship so that he can continue making money by losing that battleship and getting 200% reimbursement every time. And as it happens the best way of dealing with roaming gangs is to kill them. The worst way of dealing with roaming gangs is to ignore them.

You realise it just as well as anyone else that there are pointing rats in pretty much every anomaly nowadays. Do you really suggest that the only workable tactic against roaming fleets should be getting safe whenever one gets within 3 jumps from you. What about if they log out somewhere and come back unscouted after some time?

You are suggesting that the only working tactic against roamers should be ignoring them. I shouldn't have to tell you just how stupid that whole notion is.

Ratters died just as much before these changes were introduced as they do now. People like wheniaminspace and that lazerspewpew guy from BL were extremely successful at killing ratters solo. I'm sorry you didn't manage to do the same as them then.

Where is the fun?

hate to break to you buddy but for every ratter they catch they are at least 5 ratters that get away and all they find are wrecks in the anomalies .
The ceptors have so little dps that earlier today a Myrmi with two guardian spider tanking were making fun of us cause we couldnot break their tank with 10 ceptors . Also if you have ship with long web/points Loki/huggin/Proteus/Lachesis and decent tank etc they will get dumpstered or run away so you can continue to do AFK ratting .
Many times the ceptors are vollyed if the pilot is not careful , there is no room for mistakes with so little tank .
Bottom line deal with it untill the mittani makes a campaign to nerf them .

Fleet size and numbers are irrelevant. People would fight a 10 man interceptor gangs alone in cruisers if they could. The problem is that they can't because they can't catch them.

Are you both suggesting that the only way to fight roaming interceptors should be to put a defensive fleet in every single system? Sounds quite excessive just to deal with roamers now doesn't it?

The problem is, they cant be caught in any normal typical fit, hell even naked they an almost get through, We found a counter in wh's which I wont share here but its to time consuming to setup.

So if a Ceptor jumps through a wh there is no stopping him unless he gets an extra second of lag.

A simple script for Hics that create a bubble that only effects ceptors when they attempt to start warp and NO other ships would be more than fair for all parties involved.

- There is no way whatsoever you can fit a interceptor to warp in less than 2s with a cyno fitted and the LO needed to light the cyno. Just no way.

- All of you yay sayers seems to think, that all the ceppies need to do is to warp from gate to gate and kill ratters in every system. Wrong. Every single ishtar with ec-300's or warriors in it can already kill a careless ceppiepilot. When the fit is so specialized to warp as fast as possible, they are not exactly very tanky ships. Any cruisersize pvp fitted ship will 2 volley them ceppies, if the pilots makes the slightest error. I know, I have lost a ton of them. Ever single time I lost a ceppie there was 2 reasons to it
1) my target was prepared to be tackled and to fight us of
2) I made piloting error and thus ended up not being able to GTFO in time

So once again. Buy a ceppie, and go roaming with it, and you can see, its not very easy to stay alive with them. Our lads have now hundreds of hours of practice to stay alive. Every time we get new dudes to fleet they die. It takes practice to stay alive.

You are fully aware just how little warriors hurt interceptors. Meaning there is no way in hell warriors drive away a Malediction before his buddies arrive to secure the tackle. EC-300s might work but it's entirely random especially considering how drastic the sensor strength buffs have been lately. Miss the first jam and you are dead in any case.

I'm sure you tackle many cruiser sized non-drone boats. Yeah, that happens. There is a lonely Cynabal in a belt, will you engage? Of course not. You are presumably not an idiot. The fact that the Cynabal would kill you doesn't matter when you can decide if you want to engage or not.

Quite honestly there are only two ways to lose these interceptors, getting baited or bad FCing (mostly target selection). If it takes hundreds of hours to train your guys to stay alive and they still die to things that aren't baits then quite clearly the issue is with the FCing.

Quite honestly there are only two ways to lose these interceptors, getting baited or bad FCing (mostly target selection). If it takes hundreds of hours to train your guys to stay alive and they still die to things that aren't baits then quite clearly the issue is with the FCing.

I want to be able to defend my space against a threat. Is that too much to ask? I know your alliance can't hold space or moons so maybe you don't know much about that.

I have no problems seeing an actual fight. I don't know which one you are talking about but if carriers died then your must have escalated which is exactly how it should go. However one fight out of a few hundred Ishtar/VNI kills is not a very good ratio wouldn't you agree?

Is this the Burn jita thread ??

Is this the Burn jita thread ??

Where is the fun?

- Find max 20man ceptor roam on Intel Channel
- No_ECM.jpg
- Fit pure tanky frig killer [cheap] i.e. Caracal, Stabber, Rupture, Thorax
- Welp into inty fleet. Kill two , loose one
- Isk and killwar won.
- Howtokillinties.jpg

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response.

But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...

The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.

But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...

I don't see the point.

EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.

In large enough quantities to threaten your sov, a few smart bombing battleships would kill a lot of them. In small enough numbers that smart bombing battleships aren't much use they won't be threatening sov. You're being sensationalist with that sov statement which undermines your entire argument.

His argument actually isn't "They're here to kill our ihubs", it's "This space has OUR name on it and these people are in here and we don't want them here, so they shouldn't be allowed to be here and we shouldn't have to go through all this effort to remove them", which is a common fallacy made by sov empires.

A single 2.0s align time interceptor has no problems of killing stuff like Ishtar/VNI ratters which are popular enough that probably 30-40 die every day in Deklein.

I am sure that flying a fleet of interceptors is funny. The problem is that it is so easy that there is nothing else now.

The problem is that it is so easy that there is nothing else now.

It is true that as my favorite gameplay is hunting intruders in Goon SOV, the interceptor fleets are a problem to me more than for ather players.

It doesn't change the fact that it could be cool to have a response for this type of fleet.

I like the Idea of the Heavy Dictor script because the Dictor alone will not be able to catch the interceptors. But in a synergy with fast ships it will be interestening.

No, the problem is that every other way of roaming is so hard that there's nothing else now.

If not for ceptor nullification, roaming gangs would be nigh dead. You might see some nullified roaming T3 cruisers with depots and alternate fittings in their cargo so that they can refit according to whatever they need, but that's about it. Bubbles give the home team such a ridicilous advantage for their defence that any non-nullified roaming gang will inevitably end up getting blobbed and camped sooner or later, probably sooner.

This isn't just guesswork either, that actually happens practically 100% of the time you go roaming in non-nullified ships: just yesterday when roaming through Branch in Talwars we got blobbed by a bigger fleet than us flying a hard counter who then proceeded to camp us into a pocket. Thankfully a gang of neutral wormholers happened to pass by and helped us out.

Ceptors can be nerfed as soon as other forms of roaming are buffed, or home defense blobs are nerfed.

Happy to see the subject have some echoes in minds.

I am sure that flying a fleet of interceptors is funny. The problem is that it is so easy that there is nothing else now.

It is true that as my favorite gameplay is hunting intruders in Goon SOV, the interceptor fleets are a problem to me more than for ather players.

It doesn't change the fact that it could be cool to have a response for this type of fleet.

Happy to see the subject have some echoes in minds.

I am sure that flying a fleet of interceptors is funny. The problem is that it is so easy that there is nothing else now.

It is true that as my favorite gameplay is hunting intruders in Goon SOV, the interceptor fleets are a problem to me more than for ather players.

It doesn't change the fact that it could be cool to have a response for this type of fleet.

I like the Idea of the Heavy Dictor script because the Dictor alone will not be able to catch the interceptors. But in a synergy with fast ships it will be interestening.

That's a real shame. It must suck to be where you are.

So many people have said how Provi block easily deals with these 2.0s interceptors so I checked on that. Turns out they don't. What a surprise.

Many of you are also still arguing how active defending of your space against roaming gangs should not be able to actually defend your space. This is totally bizarre to me. I hold sov in this region. My fellow goons live in this region. Am I truly not "allowed" to stop roaming gangs that come to my sov space?

No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic.

Couldn't agree more it will help new players and new entities to be effective in fleet fights and small scale pvp.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OgtNJoP8E8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6i-WTa-wOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCe4bvq84a8
and the best of the lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95YDpd2ghz8 though this is an assault frig fleet - but a 'ceptor fleet would be even more fragile
but the point stands - you have something that you reel them in with - wait until they're in warp - light cyno - smart-bomb fleet jumps in - poppity poppity pop

The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.

But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...

I don't see the point.

The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.

But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...

I don't see the point.

EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.

Many of you are also still arguing how active defending of your space against roaming gangs should not be able to actually defend your space. This is totally bizarre to me. I hold sov in this region. My fellow goons live in this region. Am I truly not "allowed" to stop roaming gangs that come to my sov space?

I do agree that bubbles on gate as a passive defense is annoying and that's why I also, like many others in this thread, suggested that an active counter to nullification. Be it a special DIC/HIC bubble or a time limited mobile structure. Active defending of your space should be able to deal with roaming gangs.

We've been using 10,000 man interceptor fleets to take down IHUBS and large POSes. It's worked out really well so far.

-AN OPEN LETTER TO CFC AND GOONS; From A lowly Sniggwaffle.-

Dear CFC and Goons,

As an unofficial, but highly sympathetic, representative of Sniggwaffe, and Waffles. Alliance, I would like to sincerely apologize for our 200 man corp ruining your EVE experience. Our brazen acts of ruining your "fun" and harassing your miners and AFKTars is not what we had originally hoped to do so many months ago. The continued use of these tactics is completely cowardly and is ruining the game.

To this end, I have petitioned the leadership of our much-too-powerful Alliance to ban all use of Interceptors in null sec as it is not E-honourable. I have also written a report documenting why the use of AFK 'Cloaky' camping is a game-breaking exploit. I am sure many of my fellow Sniggwaffe members, and the Alliance directors will come to see that this type of tactic should be banned throughout eve as being "not very fun."

We, specifically myself, hope that the weak and defenseless CFC, especially the Goons, get the retribution they deserve. EVE should not be a place where anyone in High, Low, or Null sec should be forced to PVP in unbalanced and unfair situations. An EVE where pilots are left without a way to defend themselves, are forced to die alone, and have no recourse against the aggressors is not an EVE I would want to play in. Perhaps one day CCP will wake-up and realize that this 'sandbox' they've created is a place where people are free to do whatever they want willy-nilly much to the detriment of the players who wish to ignore the social structure that EVE is supposedly based on.

Sincerely,
Georgik Sojik.

PS - Good Luck with Burn Jita III

Please, allow me to summarize our experiences regarding the defenses we have come across on our inty roams in the last 3 or so weeks:

Active Defending 01
Active Defending 02

.d

No jango, I don't mind losing some Ishtars while farming I lost them because I was not paying attention or because I took to much risks. But I farm far more ISK than I lose while farming.

Here is my killboard because your link doesn't work
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=444093
And it is only one of my 5 pvp characters ;-)

My problem is the fact that it is impossible to force inty fleets to engage. You must bait them.

If you are cautious there is no risk to fly an inty fleet. You just have to engage ships that cannot fight back. A thrasher fleet will just have no way to engage... The inties will see them and move away...

Perharps it is a good thing for this game. But I don't think that a gameplay that is so easy is ok. There is nearly nothing else today.

Goons are roaming in inties too. No fight only ganks of farmers everywhere... So Eve it is that?

i found ppl afk in tengu in anom in deklain multiple time.. one time i even manage to kill a afk tengu with a purifier...

there are hundreds of ishtar and vexor navy issue with caldari navy wasp drones fitted with 100 mn ab rating guristas forsaken hub every where in dekalain .. some ppl rat with carriers and they even bother to warp to a pos or stataion even they see u in local
i even has screen shots..

its not the inties fault .. they ment to be catch target ,
its the pilots faults who goes afk while rating...

Perharps it is a good thing but I don't like the idea that someone can fly a ship and dumbly fly gate to gate in all Eve with no risk.

I like the fact that this a sandbox where you can do what you want. But every game play in the game should have an adequate response. If someone fly a interceptor he should have the pressure of a risk to be catch if he do it wrong.
Cloakers should not be totally safe while cloaked for hours.

Empire Gankers should have more difficulties to kill Freighters and Indus. Because it is simply too easy for the moment.
It is so easy that I don't use my freighter anymore (with my alt of course). I nearly don't use my Transport ship, and never fly an indus.

If you are cautious there is no risk to fly an inty fleet. You just have to engage ships that cannot fight back

EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.

No module can mitigate stupid.

Again, I'm not trying to have a go at you but instead I'm trying to point out that you need to think about these things logically rather than emotionally deciding you can't do something simply because you made a mistake and got shot. Take responsibility for your mistakes instead of blaming an "unfair" game. I've see too many people in EvE try something, get shot, try it again, get shot, try it again, get shot then quit what they were doing completely not once thinking that perhaps if they modified how were there doing it with the information they received by being shot they might be able to make it work. Often, they then come onto the forums and complain about how some game mechanic or other is unfair. In most cases it's not unfair, they're just a dumbass.

The fact that there is now only interceptors is the proof that there is a problem with them.

Of course they are fun to fly.

The fact that there is now only interceptors is the proof that there is a problem with them.

The fact that there is now only interceptors is the proof that there is a problem with them.

Of course they are fun to fly.

But if they replace all other ships then why creating something else?

As usual with my posts, I try to have an objective vision of the metagame.
I do not complain because I have lost a ship against Interceptors.
In fact I have lost a lot of ships against interceptors. And I killed quite a few of them.
I am concern about the fact there is only interceptors because of their impunity.

No more assault fregates, no more cruisers, not even these shiny electronic frigates.
Not because these ship are not good. But because the Interceptors are OP.

Stop trying to find why I am wrong or why I complain. I am not whining. I know exactly how to avoid the fight if I want to. If i lose ship it is because I take risks.

I don't blame an unfair game; Eve is unfair. But the gameplay should not be unfair.
And, the fact I am in Goonswar Federation does not make me a sort of clone with the only one mind.
You should think about your subective point of view before tolking about mine ;-).

I'm sure you tackle many cruiser sized non-drone boats. Yeah, that happens. There is a lonely Cynabal in a belt, will you engage? Of course not. You are presumably not an idiot. The fact that the Cynabal would kill you doesn't matter when you can decide if you want to engage or not.

Quite honestly there are only two ways to lose these interceptors, getting baited or bad FCing (mostly target selection). If it takes hundreds of hours to train your guys to stay alive and they still die to things that aren't baits then quite clearly the issue is with the FCing.

You can call it bad FC'ing, I call it having fun. You can play the game either "the right way" or the fun way. Right way is damn boring way in EVE, but that's the CFC way as we all have witnessed. That's why I'm in alliance that has no sov and killing your lazy friends. It's just fun. It has been actually also damn profitable, but that's just a little nice side bonus. This thread makes it even more fun, as my enemies are now clearly having a hard time.

I find it also damn hilarious that this thread is essentially about goonswarm guy crying about opponent denying the fights from him while your whole damn war history has been about denying fights from enemies. The fact is, you don't want to be able to fight these fleets, you want to be able to defeat them and defeat them as easily as you can defeat everything else that comes in your space. That's the whole reason you are seeing so many ceptor fleets in Deklein nowadays. They are the only thing that would require real work from your fleet instead of just sitting at the gate. It's not like that we warp our ceptors to anomaly and Ishtar goes boom instantly.

As for actual Features & Ideas Discussion, Interceptors are fine. Depending on ceptor, they all pay the price from being able to align quick in form of dps, tank or speed, usually combination all of them.


PS. Please restore our renting collection devices to Deklein. Preferably to Caldari ones for shorter trip to turn your rent to actual ISK.

If you complain about ceptors that you cant catch you are just plain lazy. Instead of whining why dont you just fly a ship that warps faster then a ceptor and can easily kill one?

A smartbombing proteus that is setup for it warps over 50% faster (12.5au) then a normal ceptor, has enough smartbombs to kill a untanked ceptor at a gate and has enough ehp to get out afterwards, pair up 3-6 of them together and you can erase whole ceptor fleets in seconds, all with better mobility.

Im just saying, you can have a proteus fleet that reps insane amounts of damage, gives links, has nice projected damage and insane point range/ or good smartbomb coverage that aligns nearly as quickly as a ceptor and warps over 50% faster. Its your fault if you dont use the games tools and instead cry about uncatchable ceptors.

But if they replace all other ships then why creating something else?

Im just saying, you can have a proteus fleet that reps insane amounts of damage, gives links, has nice projected damage and insane point range/ or good smartbomb coverage that aligns nearly as quickly as a ceptor and warps over 50% faster. Its your fault if you dont use the games tools and instead cry about uncatchable ceptors.

Everything in eve should be reasonably counterable. While its possible to counter these things is usually hard to kill them cause they know when they're being countered then they just run away, because they're engaging at 40km and good luck holding them.

Everything in eve should be reasonably counterable. While its possible to counter these things is usually hard to kill them cause they know when they're being countered then they just run away, because they're engaging at 40km and good luck holding them.

The theory of buffing interceptors was to make them useful as an interceptor, not for 2 distinct ships to become the roaming ship of destiny because they engage and point outside of standard ranges of countermeasures.

First it was the insta-warping thing. Now its theres 30 of them thing. The common problem is the missile platform which gives them a 40km or 60km engagement range while doing ~100 dps each. The current iteration of crows reminds me of the drakes of old, and not in a good way. Maledictions being used as the blob ship of choice for nullsec roaming as nothing can catch / counter them unless they allow it, aside from maybe some crazy discoing on a gate, but that can be evaded by a staggered warpoff.

Light missiles compared to other small weapon systems are entirely out of line with range and damage, which is why these interceptors are overused compared to others.

Theorys of balance In order of preference
1) remove the missiles from these ships immediately, restore their inertia, and re-roll them to turreted inteceptors inline with other interceptors.

2) further nerf the hulls stats to attempt to balance them.

3) remove the interdiction nullification from the crow and malediction, this is a bit harsh and basically removes them from the interceptor class.

4) Nerf light missiles? a bit overharsh considering few other light missile platforms see overuse.

Everything in eve should be reasonably counterable. While its possible to counter these things is usually hard to kill them cause they know when they're being countered then they just run away, because they're engaging at 40km and good luck holding them.

I just ca across this. It seems to exactly voice out the worries of the OP.

railgun ares fleet can do the same thing tbh

I am concern about the fact there is only interceptors because of their impunity.

No more assault fregates, no more cruisers, not even these shiny electronic frigates.
Not because these ship are not good. But because the Interceptors are OP.

I agree entirely. AFs and EAFs should also be interdiction nullified.

You don't see them anymore because they are pointless against blobs. Too slow, too flimsy, easily nuked of the field. I'm sure, the Myrm pilot from the recent Aubenal fight can confirm that.

Yes I love BCs but I don't see what to do with now. Slow and witout enough range and without enough tank...
It is sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OgtNJoP8E8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6i-WTa-wOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCe4bvq84a8
and the best of the lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95YDpd2ghz8 though this is an assault frig fleet - but a 'ceptor fleet would be even more fragile
but the point stands - you have something that you reel them in with - wait until they're in warp - light cyno - smart-bomb fleet jumps in - poppity poppity pop

Where's the video where you stop the inty gang with a bubble and bomb them to bits?

Oh wait, they're immune and will just go past the point.

Yes I love BCs but I don't see what to do with now. Slow and witout enough range and without enough tank...
It is sad.

it's a gang that's easily counted by a gang of the same make up of a larger size (as is the way of blob war) it's easily counted by any gang with recons and the whole lot dies to smart bombing i'm still not seeing the problem

oh and rlm cruiser gangs wipe the floor with them too can we stop this yet it's not like there is no counter people just don't like it because it lets people run around space quickly and makes fools of their cap ship blobs which are rendered useless

Anything that wipes the floor with them they will not engage unless they're morons, they then travel faster than anything that can engage them can travel to somewhere else to be annoying. Its not balanced and defending the point that they can be countered if they're used incorrectly is silly.

Anything that wipes the floor with them they will not engage unless they're morons, they then travel faster than anything that can engage them can travel to somewhere else to be annoying. Its not balanced and defending the point that they can be countered if they're used incorrectly is silly.

Ratters died just as much before these changes were introduced as they do now. People like wheniaminspace and that lazerspewpew guy from BL were extremely successful at killing ratters solo. I'm sorry you didn't manage to do the same as them then.

Instead, the results of the recent couple of weeks should be a wake-up call. Those sleepy ratters should be more alert (because currently they get what they deserve - a pod express back home), intel should be more active and those so-called defense fleets should actually help out their fellow ratters which, so far, they have not done (see the PPS. part above again).

As Ugly Eric wrote, I'm pretty sure we haven't caught a single pilot who was actually awake. We've seen so many Ishtar and Navy Vexor tail lights with only wrecks and drones left behind. A very crude guess is that we catch something like 1 out of every 20 or so ratters. Those drone boats should never be within point range of the rats anyway.

Peaceful ratting realm attacked by interceptor.

Truly it's a travesty that people can't AFK rat in drone cruisers anymore and have to instead actually pay attention to the game. What has Eve become?

There's so many ways not to die to roaming ceptor gangs, but instead of using them you're sitting here whining about how you can't beat them by camping gates and ratting in Afktars.

and that is true with all gangs of throughout all of eve what's your point?

example of what crows are capable of for blob warfare http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21586198 lets average down the volley damage to a crow to 600, with 100 crows you have a volley damage of 60k, 200 crows is 120k, they start getting to the point where they can warp on grid and start volleying off all the support ships while kiting or warping off. With an engagement range of 60-70km they will pretty much always be able to find a safe warp in to shoot from.

Where do you get the 60-70 km range from? oO

With a Malediction,I have 36 km with Meta 3 launchers and faction light missiles with a volley/DPS of 385/50. With T2 Prec/Fury you have below 20 km and have to make major trade-offs in terms of fitting, which makes them not feasible at all. So where do you get your 60 km from? I see the 60 km on the Crow, but where is the Malediction there? How is the Malediction OP in a way the Crow might be considered OP?

Malediction and Crow are really powerful today.

The only efficient counter measure I found is otther inties.

So I think that time will come where there will be only inties and docked ships in Eve...

Firstly the only intys i have an issue with are the crow and malediction. They are completely out of line with all the other interceptors due to light missiles, they engage / dps outside of any range that a non-obvious bait ship can potentially tackle them, as they orbit outside of any e-war capable of holding them outside of a recon. to do similiar dps pretty much all other intys have to at least be inside neut range of a bs, but most others will go 10-12k ish. Interceptors were buffed to be used as interceptors to support in fleets, they should not be viable as without the inclusion of non-interceptors.

Maledictions and Crows Are what drakes were in 2009-2011, its a matter of time until someone abuses them enough to get the usage stats high enough for CCP to properly balance them.

example of what crows are capable of for blob warfare http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21586198 lets average down the volley damage to a crow to 600, with 100 crows you have a volley damage of 60k, 200 crows is 120k, they start getting to the point where they can warp on grid and start volleying off all the support ships while kiting or warping off. With an engagement range of 60-70km they will pretty much always be able to find a safe warp in to shoot from.

Malediction and Crow are really powerful today.
Long range warp disruptor, long range light missiles, quite good dps.

2 Maledictions can easily kill lot of farmer ships, 5 to 10 will be able to take down nearly any farmer.
Most of the time they will deny any other fight.

Even with high scan resolution it is rare you can catch one of them just because of latency. (And mine is really huge)

The only efficient counter measure I found is otther inties.

So I think that time will come where there will be only inties and docked ships in Eve...

c) bringing caracals with rlm's to kill all the intercepters and laugh as they run away like little girls

now remember that if you can do any or all of those things the intercepters won't get any kills and you won't catch them but making them run home like little girls is also winning the fight

It would be better to have to make the choice to counter Interceptors on Interdictors when fitting the ship with a special module overcoming the specific nullified effects. This would also make it more dangerous for T3's to roam around.

Although the impunity witch Inteceptors now have seems a bit silly. There is no ship that can warp faster, move faster on grid or enjoy the safety of bubble free roaming like it. And i like the fact that nullsec carebears no longer have the safety of 900 anchored warp bubbles on gates the immense speed inties enjoy on all levels makes forming a counter fleet near impossible unless you have your own ceptor fleet standing by.

To not have everyone just spam the module only interdictors sould be able to fit the 'anti-nullify' module and it requires ammo equal in size to the cap booster 400's maybe? This would generate an option to fit specific ships as anti-inteceptor with Scram (anti MWD) Web (anti AB and general speed) and the anti nullify module. This would mean 3 modules, ammo and a heavy skill requirement for the ships to counter the easy peasy inty roams.

[edit]



Really, you never use d-scan when in inty roams? not saying it never happens but smartbombs on gates are easily avoided by inties because of the accelerated warp speed.

eat a quafe

Inty fleets are an indication that bubbles are OP.

Cloak 5001 m off gate in direction of other gate. Wait for ceptors to show up on d scan. decloak, start smart bombing. Wait for ceptors to land on gate and blow up. Don't need to lock to smart bomb, so just put a cloak on it and they'll quite litterally never see it coming.

Interceptor fleet are not fun at all.

I think you're seriously underestimating the ehp of a ceptor

some people think mining isn't fun too.. if you don't like interceptor fleets.... don't fly in them.

In fact it is not flying them the problem. It is the fact that they removed any other type of fleet.

Would you please stop lying to yourself, and more importantly, to the rest of the community? OR implying that CFC is the only entity in this game? There are other people in this game (believe it or not) and they fly other fleet setups than ceptors. If CFC is incapable of doing that, that's your problem but not one for the rest of the community. Resolve that internally and not on the back of the rest of the community.

Happy to read this ;-)

These fleet do not come to Deklein though. I agree that I only can only talk about my game experience.

But obviously why flying something else for the moment?

Interceptors are so cool... Fast to travel, nearly impossible to catch and able to engage what they want to.

Of course you will not take SOV with Inty fleet. But you will be able to give the sensation to those who got SOV that they cannot protect them.

Perharps it is not a so bad thing in fact.

Also it seems that the CFC mentality is that tears in hsec are best of everything and yet when someone makes you tear a lot in 0.0 its so wrong it needs to be nerfed.

Frankly, if null-sec is so safe that people are complaining because solo ratters get hit from time to time when they're not paying attention, it shouldn't be giving the income that it does.

Firstly the only intys i have an issue with are the crow and malediction. They are completely out of line with all the other interceptors due to light missiles, they engage / dps outside of any range that a non-obvious bait ship can potentially tackle them, as they orbit outside of any e-war capable of holding them outside of a recon. to do similiar dps pretty much all other intys have to at least be inside neut range of a bs, but most others will go 10-12k ish. Interceptors were buffed to be used as interceptors to support in fleets, they should not be viable as without the inclusion of non-interceptors.

Maledictions and Crows Are what drakes were in 2009-2011, its a matter of time until someone abuses them enough to get the usage stats high enough for CCP to properly balance them.

example of what crows are capable of for blob warfare http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21586198 lets average down the volley damage to a crow to 600, with 100 crows you have a volley damage of 60k, 200 crows is 120k, they start getting to the point where they can warp on grid and start volleying off all the support ships while kiting or warping off. With an engagement range of 60-70km they will pretty much always be able to find a safe warp in to shoot from.

Some day these guys will learn to stop over tanking for rats and plug that EM hole, or fit warp stabs, or not go make a sandwich while ratting.

But the Malediction gets a DPS bonus (rate of fire), a tank bonus (resists and MWD sig reduction), an tackle bonus (range and reduced cap) along with a built in nullifier. It is too much good in a cheap package, and it is a dead giveaway that things are unbalanced when so many are using it. Just like the Drake blobs were getting stale, and it is now Ishtar fleet every fleet.