Oh, I'm sure there was. Keeping escalations in check and ensuring the same fight dynamics extend to a BC level would probably encourage fights. It's going to be annoying as hell dealing with the neutrals going all Honorable Third Party on any Large they see.

Guess my point was more that I don't see the need for gated plexes over cruiser size. Any particular reason we should be incentivizing BC fights in particular, other than nostalgia?

Also. Man up. Unrestricted plexes is a good thing. If you can't or don't want to fight in an unrestricted plex, there will be the novice, small, and medium plexes available for you. People will finally be able to fly kiting doctrines without having to race into the plex first.
In addition, 99% sure cynos cannot be lit in a Large plex.

Since I can't jump to DevPosts easily (or I can't figure out how to go to a dev post past the first one), is there a reason why they are unable to limit T1 cloaks in plexes and allow T2 CovOps cloaks in plexes? So the cheap farmer ships will still be stopped, but the more expensive CovOp ships, that were meant to be cloaked, will still be able to do their thing.




Also. Man up. Unrestricted plexes is a good thing. If you can't or don't want to fight in an unrestricted plex, there will be the novice, small, and medium plexes available for you. People will finally be able to fly kiting doctrines without having to race into the plex first.
In addition, 99% sure cynos cannot be lit in a Large plex.

Man up and kite like a sissy like the rest of us.

Master Sarge Recommendation for implementation of Rollbacks to timers....

Apparently it's a b**** to mess with the timer code as it is implemented right now. When CCP finally cleans it up I think they're going to implement timer rollbacks. Until then we can only dream - and listen to rants on the forums.

Will there be rats that need to be killed when defensive plexing? I think until that happens the afk plexers will be cheering. And the cheering sound can most clearly be heard in Vlillirier, Nennamalia, and Nisuwa.

Offensive plexing is not done afk. They are at the keyboard ready to warp out or cloak.

Here is the goal from the op:
" These NPCs are essentially intended to be dps tests that gently encourage use of combat fit ships for running the complexes without getting in the way of PVP"

Is the assumption that high dps ships will be more likely to stay and fight than lower dps ships?

Here is what I think is the key: Anytime you force a certain ship fitting to deal with an npc you reduce the chance that the person will also want to pvp in that ship.

The ship fit becomes optimal to deal with the rats but completely impractical for pvp. A shield tanked incursus with 3 mag stabs in the lows and largest meta blasters might be very effective for plexing but no one will want to pvp in it. Thus you have the trade off. Do you want to fit for pvp or do you want to fit for plexing? IMO creating that trade off should be avoided, not encouraged.

Apparently it's a b**** to mess with the timer code as it is implemented right now. When CCP finally cleans it up I think they're going to implement timer rollbacks. Until then we can only dream - and listen to rants on the forums.

Ok tested on SISI with 150 - 160 DPS Tristan - 99dps drones

Faced 5 NPC frigates in a novice despatched them fairly quickly (20 seconds or under) with just drones. They arrive 1 at a time 2-3 minutes apart.

Small took me around 25minutes against 7 NPC Destroyers, drones could just about take one down but a bit time consuming.

Observations

The NPC arrivals seem fairly consistent between plexes every couple of minutes and is independent of the timer.

Could not break medium NPC tank even with overheating

NPC DPS still seem largely irrelevant, my Tristan was armour buffer fit and only the medium NPC presented any danger and that was with zero transversal. Main issue may be ammo consumption.

Feedback

Tank improvements make quite a difference.

Larger number of tags could be quite interesting, it may be possible however to farm NPCGÇÖs by sitting outside the capture radius and letting them spawn.

Perhaps the small and Large Plex NPC spawn rate should be a little longer.

Less offensive plexing means less defensive plexing in the long run. Most militia members just don't want to log on to hours of defensive plexing. We get that and we can hopefully attract new blood.

This may be true and many veterans will agree with you. However it's really a case of picking your poison. The rats do anemic DPS - they won't interfere with a fight. If you're trying to conquer a system you'll have friends. And if you're trying to make isk - then you're really going to have to take a ship and stick to a certain type of plex in this new environment. Based on the above experience - I'd want at least 200 dps in a small plex to get through the rats quickly.

Since we're on the topic of more NPC, can we address the issue of tags? There are so many tags required for faction items in the LP stores that never drop from running plexes. Considering running plexes has become the main staple of FW and how FW operates for both PVE and PvP, wouldn't it be wise to adjust the tag drops?

Including some of the smaller tags and/or larger tags in the wrecks would be a good adjustment. It would means that as a FW player I don't have to go to Jita just to buy Caldari tags, even though I shoot them all day, everyday

Quit already with that ******** idea of timer rollbacks

Timer rollback will mean easy mode defending.
It will make it a numbers game.
You see 1 guy plexing? Bring 2 guys in and he has to run. Timer will rollback automatically. Job done.
It should be just as hard to defend a plex as it is to attack it.
If you want the timer to rollback, you should stay in there with your ship and fight for it like a man.
Timer rollbacks make defensive plexing absolete and way too easy.

Is there ever any more than one rat in the plex at a time? I just want to make sure that there is minimal disruption to solo pvp.

Station lockouts are to blame for that. I am not sure why anyone would base in a faction war system after inferno.

And if we are talking about home systems I am really not sympathetic. My days in faction were spent sitting in the enemies home systems and doing plexes while dozens of wts in system ignored me. They would just defensive plex it back after I was gone. If you don't want to defensive plex then kill the guy running the offensive plex.

I agree this isn't that big of a deal, but based on what you say its pretty clear that these changes mean you are going to be more efficient at plexing if you have a pve fit than if you have a pvp fit.


You can get 200 dps from a t1 frigate if you are not worried about pvping in it. Therefore you will be able to do both novice and small plexes. People in pvp fits won't be able to do that. So you have the choice fit for plexing or fit for pvp. The same will probably apply to how you fit your destroyer to do smalls and mediums.

This subject has been beaten to death. We are not going to agree on it.




I agree that your choices may be narrowed. But no PvP fits at all? Destroyers will eat smalls easily. Most AF will do the same. They will require no sacrifices to their usual fits. You can go in and PvP with whatever you want - the rat's biggest threat is you shooting it rather then the WT if you have autotargeting set up. PvE is more about tank then DPS. This is the opposite.

I am not saying you can't fly a pvp fit in any plex but the plexes you can run will be cut in half (at least maybe a third in some cases) if you fly a pvp fit rather than a pve fit.

What you and alticus show is that if you have a pvp fit you will only be able to do one type of plex. If you fit for pve you will be able to do 2 types of plex. For example you can do novice and smalls in a t1 frigate if you are pve fit. But if you are pvp fit you will just be able to do novice plexes in a t1 frigate.

If you want to do medium and smalls in a destroyer you will likely need to use a silly shield fit that maximizes dps that you would likely not want to pvp in. Otherwise you will only be able to do small plexes. If you are in a ft1 frig and see a wt deplexing a small plex you can chase him out but you won't be able to budge the timer like you can now.


I'm not saying its a big deal but, IMO it is going slightly in the wrong direction. I want mechanics that encourage pvp fits not ones that discourage them.

Edit: If you take a small plex and defensive run it Sasawong style for 10 minutes - 25 minute timer for a WT coming into it - you have just created a 41 minute + monstrosity for anything with a T1 frigates DPS. That's scary.

I agree with all but the sitting outside capture radius until they all spawn - They don't seem to spawn if the timer stops.

What you and alticus show is that if you have a pvp fit you will only be able to do one type of plex. If you fit for pve you will be able to do 2 types of plex. For example you can do novice and smalls in a t1 frigate if you are pve fit. But if you are pvp fit you will just be able to do novice plexes in a t1 frigate.

If you want to do medium and smalls in a destroyer you will likely need to use a silly shield fit that maximizes dps that you would likely not want to pvp in. Otherwise you will only be able to do small plexes. If you are in a ft1 frig and see a wt deplexing a small plex you can chase him out but you won't be able to budge the timer like you can now.

Pretty sure they do, I spent some time outside the capture zone and they do spawn, I also warped away to fit up another ship and the NPC was there when I returned.

At the moment I like the extra tank but there may be too many spawns.

The same could be said about attacking.

This simply isn't true.

Granted, if you're running one of our 110dps meta fit Atrons, it'll take a while to run a small. But you can do it. Armor meta fit frigates might have a bit of a hard time, especially brick tanked or dual rep ones, but most balanced setups should do fine in novices and smalls.

Armor destroyers will be able to run up to Mediums with no problem. Even a meta fit armor blaster Catalyst throws enough DPS to break mediums - same with Algoses and Thrashers. Not an Amarr pilot but I know the Dragoon will be fine, and probably the Coercer too.

I'm a little concerned about ships fitting Light Missiles or Rails, since their DPS tends to be lower on average. However, CCP has stated that using burstier damage (more alpha, lower DPS) should still work. I'll need to run some tests on SiSi to see how that plays out.

I haven't been on SiSi so you can argue with zarnak Sgt Ocker and alticus as to whether what they say is true or not. Most of my pvp t1 frigate fits do not do over 200 dps. If I recall, they do more in the range of 110-170. So it is going to be much less efficent to complete a plex that is intended for ships larger than yours in a pvp fit.

Fixed. Not a rip on you, but it's clear that - in this upcoming iteration of FW - the devs want solo players to bring the appropriately sized ship to a FW plex.

It seems that CCP got tired of people reporting bots in FW space but are pretty okay with farmville. sigh.

Exactly Templar.


In addition:
Timer rollback only benefits status quo on an open active plex. There is sufficient incentive, already in game, as a driver for the completion of plex's.

If suddenly all of the plex's in the game were left, what would happen?

1. LP generation would fall
2. Availability of LP Store items would fall.
3. Prices would rise.
4. Market's would cry for more.
5. Plex's would be plexed again.



Looking at your scenario:

1. pilot plexing
2. Hunters Hunting
3. Gankers waiting... ...dead hunters.

or

1. Pilot plexing
2. Hunters Hunting
3. Pilot Kites and snipes... ...Hunters lose ships trying to burn to tackle

or

etc.....

Your argument assmes solo piloting and assumes that they have no option but to run. Sometimes this is the best call ... sometimes