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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
9932
   |
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone. Those of you who were at the Fanfest FW roundtable heard a bit about some improvements to FW complexes that we have planned for Kronos. Time for some details!
We are making changes to three aspects of the FW complexes:
- New Large Outposts
- NPC and Spawning Changes
- Cloaking prevention within capture range
I want to make it clear that these changes are intended to create a more interesting environment for FW plexing and to make pvp fits more competitive with "farming" fits on an lp/hr scale, but are not intended to somehow bring an end to "farming" or other evasion tactics. We have no intention of hard blocking warp core stabs or cloaks from complexes. Players should have tools to help mitigate risk, as long as those tools require tradeoffs.
New Large Outposts
We've received a lot of requests that we introduce more opportunities for larger ships to participate in FW. The relative rarity of large FW complexes has been an issue here.
In Kronos we're adding Large Outposts to the dungeon distributions. Like other Outposts these complexes will always respawn in the same system after a delay. This means that unless the large outpost in a given system has been run recently, there will always be at least one large complex available.
NPC and Spawning Changes
When we recreated the FW complexes in Retribution we removed the old waves of NPCs and replaced them with single spawning NPCs with extremely low DPS and active tanks. These NPCs are essentially intended to be dps tests that gently encourage use of combat fit ships for running the complexes without getting in the way of PVP. We actually wrote the initial design with the intention of having these NPCs respawn on a delay after they are killed, but some broken content tools forced us to shelve that design at that time.
One of the content tools that Team Space Glitter made for the Ghost Sites in Rubicon actually fix this hole so we are going ahead and returning to the original design for the Retribution FW NPCs.
As of Kronos, the NPCs in FW complexes will respawn on a randomized timer after the previous NPC is destroyed. There will never be more than one NPC spawned at once.
The respawn timer will be between 90 and 180 seconds for Novice and Small complexes, and between 90 and 300 seconds for Medium and Large complexes.
We're also making some tweaks to the NPCs themselves. The dps of each NPC is being decreased even lower than their current levels, by between 20 and 40%.
We are also increasing the active repair rate of the NPCs and decreasing their raw hitpoints. This will ensure that higher dps fits have an advantage in how quickly they can clear the NPCs and get back to capturing the plex.
Cloaking prevention within capture range
To help ensure balance around cloak use in FW complexes, we are disallowing cloaking within 30km of the capture point. This is achieved through an inert beacon with a 30km radius, so that when you are within capture range of the point you are also always 0km from an object.
We received some requests at Fanfest to increase this radius farther, which we will consider after we have seen how this first change plays out. One of the advantages of using the 30km radius is that it will still be possible for a cloaking combat ship to sit 30km from the capture point in the direction of the warpin location and remain close enough to the warpin to make hunting viable.
These are obviously not the only changes we could make to improve FW and they are not the only changes we want to make as we move forward, but we still believe that this package of complex improvements will benefit FW significantly.
We look forward to hearing your feedback!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Takanuro
Kill-Switch Engage
106
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Posted - 2014.05.09 11:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
1st
Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
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Chitsa Jason
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
1237
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
CSM8 Member
Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason
Skype: Casparas
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Niden
Moira.
Villore Accords
40
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Glad to see this made it through. Also glad that the FW / LS community is listened to. Thank you :)
Moira. corp | Villore Accords alliance | Gallente militia | Crossing Zebras writer
@Niden_GMVA |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
1893
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
The inability to cloak within capture rage was needed!
+1
I hope everyone voted in the CSM elections!
Thank you to those who actually supported my campaign!
Even if I don't get elected in, I hope that the CSM that do, and Devs actually use my ideas somewhere! |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
Imperial Outlaws.
1675
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
1) Will Large plexes remain ungated?
2) The plexes currently respawn 30 minutes after they are closed. With new large plexes as a thing the total number of plexes a system has is increased by 33%. A dedicated attacker can flip a system much faster as a result. Can you slow the roll on plex respawn rates?  |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
9937
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:1) Will Large plexes remain ungated?
Yes, these large outposts are ungated just like the current large plexes
Zarnak Wulf wrote:2) The plexes currently respawn 30 minutes after they are closed. With new large plexes as a thing the total number of plexes a system has is increased by 33%. A dedicated attacker can flip a system much faster as a result. Can you slow the roll on plex respawn rates?
We're aware of the increase in potential flip speed. However with the respawning and harder repping NPCs slowing capture rates of each plex we think the overall change will be acceptable. We'll be keeping an eye on feedback of course and tweaking respawn rates would be very easy if needed.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
631
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
I look forward to fights with bigger ships. I'm less sure about the changes to NPCs. There go my days of being able to run any 'ol plex in a #Derptron.
Fleet Bookmarks
New Gravimetric Sites
Med Clones 2.0 |
Niden
Moira.
Villore Accords
40
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:1) Will Large plexes remain ungated? 2) The plexes currently respawn 30 minutes after they are closed. With new large plexes as a thing the total number of plexes a system has is increased by 33%. A dedicated attacker can flip a system much faster as a result. Can you slow the roll on plex respawn rates?
I don't see why this is a bad thing.
Moira. corp | Villore Accords alliance | Gallente militia | Crossing Zebras writer
@Niden_GMVA |
Khador Vess
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
205
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Posted - 2014.05.09 11:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Cloaking prevention within capture range [/list]
I read this and supressed a giant GÇÿSqueeGÇÖ of delight. +1 definitely do want.
I used to have a forum sig, but CCP SocksFour stole it.... |
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
19947
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Cloaking prevention within capture range
Yes, this is a good idea.
CCP Fozzie wrote:One of the advantages of using the 30km radius is that it will still be possible for a cloaking combat ship to sit 30km from the capture point in the direction of the warpin location and remain close enough to the warpin to keep the LP stealing viable while doing some changes to pretend we're doing meaningful changes.
FTFY.
CCP Fozzie wrote:These are obviously not the only changes we could make to improve FW and they are not the only changes we want to make as we move forward, but we still believe that this package of complex improvements will benefit FW significantly.
We look forward to hearing your feedback!
I'm looking forward to see the rest of the FW changes, and hopefully one of them will be reduction of LP from idle orbiting and a substantial increase of LP gained by killing pilots of opposing militias and also pirates.
Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2341
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
What about adding a warp disruption effect 2x the distance of capture for the duration of the capture?
-á --á |
Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
119
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Cloaking prevention within capture range
To help ensure balance around cloak use in FW complexes, we are disallowing cloaking within 30km of the capture point. This is achieved through an inert beacon with a 30km radius, so that when you are within capture range of the point you are also always 0km from an object.
We received some requests at Fanfest to increase this radius farther, which we will consider after we have seen how this first change plays out. One of the advantages of using the 30km radius is that it will still be possible for a cloaking combat ship to sit 30km from the capture point in the direction of the warpin location and remain close enough to the warpin to make hunting viable.
Well let's see how to begin...
First, my arazu would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Second, my rapier would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Third, my pilgrim would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Fourth, my falcon would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Fifth, my astero would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Sixth, my stratios would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Seventh, my nemesis would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Eighth, my manticore would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Ninth, my purifier would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Eleventh, my hound would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Should I keep going with every other cloaking ship in the game that has now been ruined because you decided to fix the farmers ability to cloak inside a plex instead of addressing the problem of it being better and more profitable to just run instead of fighting?
Bad move on this one. I now have to burn over 30km once inside the plex to cloak up and then always be at least 30km from the target if they sit at 0 on the warp-in. Which warp scrambler goes out beyond 30km on the arazu again? Oh that's right they don't unless I spend over 150mil for a faction scrambler and have maxed out boost in system....
/me starts a slow cap in rememberence of those brave cloaky ships that can't be flown in the warzone again |
Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1051
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
This stops one of the few somewhat reliable ways to catch farmers: cloaky Astero or covops. Can you please comment on why this isn't a problem?
Would changing it such that a ship with fitted cloak did not count down the timer be a better solution?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
Imperial Outlaws.
1676
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:What about adding a warp disruption effect 2x the distance of capture for the duration of the capture?
I too want to introduce quasi-bubbles to low sec. And risk my implants to continue FW. Just no.... |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3188
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
the most effective way to play the game will remain 'boring away the other player'
this makes a bad game. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
631
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would like to see Faction Warfare LP payouts function somewhat like it does in Incursions - you don't get the LP for the plexes you have captured until after the system you captured them in has been flipped.
Obviously, that would not be applicable to defensive plexing. I think that's a good thing because it might encourage more people to D-plex.
Fleet Bookmarks
New Gravimetric Sites
Med Clones 2.0 |
Kale Freeman
Dirt 'n' Glitter
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
A much better solution would have been to make cloaking up an unattractive option for the farmer. Better than simply removing the option, and also removing the cloaking option for everyone else as well.
In range of button, counting down timer.
Move outside range, countdown stops.
Cloak up or leave grid, countdown resets. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
5905
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cloaks are not the problem. They can be used to evade a fight or to enable one.
Warp stabs are the problem. They are good for nothing but avoiding fights.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
19952
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:the most effective way to play the game will remain 'boring away the other player'
this makes a bad game.
I second that
Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
|
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
19952
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kale Freeman wrote:Cloak up or leave grid, countdown resets.
You should apply to work at CCP.
Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
|
Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1051
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kale Freeman wrote:A much better solution would have been to make cloaking up an unattractive option for the farmer. Better than simply removing the option, and also removing the cloaking option for everyone else as well.
In range of button, counting down timer.
Move outside range, countdown stops.
Cloak up or leave grid, countdown resets.
Yep, timer rollbacks ftw. Maybe we haven't been asking for timer rollbacks enough. Ahem.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Kale Freeman
Dirt 'n' Glitter
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Cloaks are not the problem. They can be used to evade a fight or to enable one.
Warp stabs are the problem. They are good for nothing but avoiding fights.
The fancy 30km invisible object that prevents everyone from cloaking should simple be a 30km bubble. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
Imperial Outlaws.
1676
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Timer rollbacks (gradual) good. Timer resets (immediate) bad. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3189
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Cloaks are not the problem. They can be used to evade a fight or to enable one.
Warp stabs are the problem. They are good for nothing but avoiding fights.
disagree, a pvp mechanic that rewards running away (ie not pvping) is the problem, not the ability to run away itself |
Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1052
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kale Freeman wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Cloaks are not the problem. They can be used to evade a fight or to enable one.
Warp stabs are the problem. They are good for nothing but avoiding fights. The fancy 30km invisible object that prevents everyone from cloaking should simple be a 30km bubble.
If you want bubbles, go to null or wormholes. I like implants.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Kale Freeman
Dirt 'n' Glitter
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Kale Freeman wrote:A much better solution would have been to make cloaking up an unattractive option for the farmer. Better than simply removing the option, and also removing the cloaking option for everyone else as well.
In range of button, counting down timer.
Move outside range, countdown stops.
Cloak up or leave grid, countdown resets. Yep, timer rollbacks ftw. Maybe we haven't been asking for timer rollbacks enough. Ahem.
Maybe having the counter counting back down when it is abandoned (everyone warped off grid or cloaked up) is tricky. I'd be quite happy with a simple counter reset when the beacon is abandoned. |
Kale Freeman
Dirt 'n' Glitter
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 12:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Timer rollbacks (gradual) good. Timer resets (immediate) bad.
I agree that a gradual timer rollback would be better. I am curious why you feel that an immediate reset is bad. |
Ramone Ormand
Black Watch Syndicate
Vitoc Health Services
28
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:...are not intended to somehow bring an end to "farming" or other evasion tactics. We have no intention of hard blocking warp core stabs or cloaks from complexes.
Why not? Plex's would be great places to find fights if 90% of all frigates inside of them weren't stabbed. It takes a silly amount of time to find PVP in a PVP focused zone. I find it odd that a faction can bring all systems of another faction into vulnerable state whilst multiboxing stabbed frigates. I thought it was factional WARfare not sit in space watching youtube with your hand down your pants?
"I'm sorry, but the electronic systems of your warp core stabilizers interfere with the electronics of the acceleration gate and you may not jump through"
there, FW is fixed, none of this 'large plexes' change or NPC changes. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
Imperial Outlaws.
1678
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 12:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kale Freeman wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Timer rollbacks (gradual) good. Timer resets (immediate) bad. I agree that a gradual timer rollback would be better. I am curious why you feel that an immediate reset is bad. EDIT: An immediate reset is a bigger penalty for running. Do you think it is too big a penalty?
It penalizes reshipping. Not everyone is a farmer trying to evade. If I'm in a brawler and a WT rolls up in a brawler - gf. If I see a condor on short though I'm going to want a different ship. |
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