So... 30km from timer... all farmer now will stay on 29km far away from timer structure, when they see some1 on scan they will move 500meters and cloak. nice fix... actually you remove ability for ppl who sit inside in plex and hunt for farmers. Before I can jump inside plex in cloak and kill damn stabed/cloaked farmer. now cant if I wasnt jump inside before them. Still he will run cause is stabbed... Just block entrance with wcs ships if they arent stealth ships like | astero/stealth bomber/cover ops |. You fix nothing CCP. Shame on you, FW still ****** up totally for ppl who want fight. You create zone for farmers with cloak/warp stabs. You are farming on customers like they farming LP...

I quit FW today, nothing to do there.

ps. sorry for my bad english, that isnt my primary language :P

just make the no-cloak zone much larger than the cap zone.

if he's a pirate then you can attack whenever. spawning and entering a plex in my system is an aggressive act, more like.

So... 30km from timer... all farmer now will stay on 29km far away from timer structure, when they see some1 on scan they will move 500meters and cloak. nice fix... actually you remove ability for ppl who sit inside in plex and hunt for farmers. Before I can jump inside plex in cloak and kill damn stabed/cloaked farmer. Now cant if I wasnt jump inside before them. Still they will run cause are stabbed... Just block entrance with wcs/cloak if they arent stealth ships like | astero/stealth bomber/cover ops |. You fix nothing CCP. Shame on you, FW still ****** up totally for ppl who want fight. You create zone for farmers with cloak/warp stabs. You are farming on customers like they farming LP...

I quit FW today, nothing to do there.

ps. sorry for my bad english, that isnt my primary language :P

Yes, this is a good idea.


FTFY.


I'm looking forward to see the rest of the FW changes, and hopefully one of them will be reduction of LP from idle orbiting and a substantial increase of LP gained by killing pilots of opposing militias and also pirates.

I'm also looking forward to a solution for popular plexing fits such as this.

Yes, but why would we want to exclude cloak-capable combat ships from the warzone? The current change is bad enough, making the no-cloak zone large enough to actually matter is going to ruin cloaky combat in its entirety.

Well let's see how to begin...
First, my arazu would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Second, my rapier would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Third, my pilgrim would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Fourth, my falcon would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Fifth, my astero would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Sixth, my stratios would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Seventh, my nemesis would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Eighth, my manticore would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Ninth, my purifier would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Eleventh, my hound would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.

Should I keep going with every other cloaking ship in the game that has now been ruined because you decided to fix the farmers ability to cloak inside a plex instead of addressing the problem of it being better and more profitable to just run instead of fighting?

Bad move on this one. I now have to burn over 30km once inside the plex to cloak up and then always be at least 30km from the target if they sit at 0 on the warp-in. Which warp scrambler goes out beyond 30km on the arazu again? Oh that's right they don't unless I spend over 150mil for a faction scrambler and have maxed out boost in system....

/me starts a slow cap in rememberence of those brave cloaky ships that can't be flown in the warzone again

I want to make it clear that these changes are intended to create a more interesting environment for FW plexing and to make pvp fits more competitive with "farming" fits on an lp/hr scale, but are not intended to somehow bring an end to "farming" or other evasion tactics. We have no intention of hard blocking warp core stabs or cloaks from complexes. Players should have tools to help mitigate risk, as long as those tools require tradeoffs.

Perhaps it should be looked at this way.

Simply sitting within capture range = a very slow rate of capture.

Actively engaged in combat with an NPC within the capture zone = higher rate of capture.

I suppose you could even go to the extent of saying:

Actively engaged in combat with a player(s) of the owning faction = fastest rate of capture (assuming you survive that long)... although this last could very well be exploited.

~a good, rational post~

CCP, hire this guy.

I second that

Would also like to see gate on large plex.

Cloaking radius limits I dislike intensely - cloaks inside the plex are useful for PVE and PVP. I firmly believe you are destroying gameplay options for both sets of players here. Please reconsider.

Is there a particular reason that the often repeated requests for timer rollbacks (which appears to have a large amount of support from the FW community) seem to be ignored. Is it just too hard to implement? Maybe I missed an official CCP response to this somewhere?

I've gone into hundreds of plexes in the last year.. I have twice been attacked by cloaky hunters but i've run into countless farmers that cloak up. The "You are hurting pvp options" arguement is kinda bullshit.

I've gone into hundreds of plexes in the last year.. I have twice been attacked by cloaky hunters but i've run into countless farmers that cloak up. The "You are hurting pvp options" arguement is kinda bullshit.

Perhaps from your point of view. See it from my side for a moment?

I want to be able to sit inside my FW complexes with my cloaky SOE/Recon etc ships with Admiral Ackbar quotes ready to spam local with when it all goes to plan.

For me it's engaging gameplay. Hunter, hunted etc etc.

Doesn't matter if its' an "LP gatherer", neutral or 'nasty evil pirate'.

These changes remove gameplay options from everyone and that is not good.

first of all thank you for including large plexes in the regular FW spawn cycle we asked for it since inferno - a really nice change.

The other two changes however i really can't support. The problem is that they most likely will make plexing more annoying without fixing anything.

If you are after LP running or hiding is still more efficient than fighting, making running or hiding more difficult does not fix the problem its just a dirty way of dealing of the symptoms of the mechanics.

CCP has a history of fixing symptoms instead of the problem, for example if you look back what happened in inferno, plex layout changes like moving the beacon closer to the warpin or the requirement to kill the rat instead of tanking it did not help at all to motivate farmers to get out the vicious circle and use pvp ships (it really is the first step, if you don't do this you have no choice but running away).



A fix of the problem would NOT be to prohibit cloaks, or block stabs. It would be to penalize running or hiding. Sounds horribly complicated right? FEAR NOT ITS THE EASIEST FIX IN THE WORLD. I am sure nobody in the forums EVER suggested timer resets as most obvious fix to the problem. Kappa

So how would a CLEAN FIX OF THE PROBLEM look you ask? There are many many variations of the timer reset or rollback proposal. Here a few examples:
- timer ticks backwards in accelerated fashion till it reaches neutral state if a player waits in the plex
- timer ticks backwards till it reaches the neutral (normal speed) state if everything left the beacon
- timer resets immediately (imagine you could spend lp on the plex structure to reset it)
- ... just a few EXAMPLES

you say, hey thats not fair since i might waste so much time of my life plexing. FEAR NOT timer length is not set in stone.
- imagine someone would reduce timer length and payouts to balance the now fixed mechanics between EXPANSIONS

you say everybody would blob and i can't solo anymore (sidenote: i solo pvp at least 90% of my gametime)
- firstly, the nature of blobs is that they a) get killed by a larger blob or b) dissolve quickly since there is no other blob around
- secondly, having a blob you still won't be able to cover whole FW space. A route through all amarr systems alone has 32+ jumps, and thats half of the warzone. (cal-gal WZ is much larger btw) How often do you think a blob would fly this route?
- thirdly, crazy concepts like patrol gangs might actually work, you could defend (selected) systems or disrupt your opponent defending systems WITHOUT TRADING TIME 1:1 WITH FARMERS
- solo farming WILL STILL PERFECTLY WORK, all you would have to do is to use a pvp fit an pick a quiet system


so what would happen after implementing the MOST OBVIOUS FIX IN EVE HISTORY you ask?
- stabs, cloaks will serve the original purpose: protecting your ship but using them for make LP won't work anymore
- plexing will be a mechanic to create confilct and you would see more fights in them
- frigs will stick to novices, destroyers to small plexes and cruisers to medium plexes
- people will plex together in great joy, celebrating the new plexing mechanics

OMG the fix is PERFECT you say, do we still need the other stuff?
- actually no, rats, artificial rules like cloak inhibitors don't matter anymore, you could just remove them or keep them... doesn't matter

but you still want to EXPLOIT A BROKEN SYSTEM TO FARM LP WITHOUT RISK OR EFFORT you say?
- no problem m8. FW covers EVERYTHING. You can fly pve missions which allow you to complete them without NPC agro, 0 risk... you can cloak any time, watch a movie etc. Best of all: it doesn't influence sov and its the perfect solo mechanic DESIGNED TO BE NO CONFLICT DRIVER

but what if this change is made and it DOESN'T WORK (fictional, highly theoretical scenario - won't happen ever)
- luckily eve has now a new 6 week deployment model so you could implement the "we will monitor the situation and tweak the system later" - inferno - CCP Soundwave - before riot - promise with minimal effort


thanks for listening and thanks for the large plex change

What if players had to 'lock on/connect' to a FW capture point (like an orbital bombardment satellite) in order for it to count down?

Then you could tailor the sig radius of the capture point based on size, but it would also mean that stabbed players would not only have a little bit of a difficult time locking it along with killing NPCs, but they'd be forced to sit on top of it due to the range reductions of their fitted WCSs. Then stabbing and cloaking would be a mutually defeating fit because you couldn't be in range to capture with stabs, but also be able to quickly cloak.

So... 30km from timer... all farmer now will stay on 29km far away from timer structure, when they see some1 on scan they will move 500meters and cloak. nice fix... actually you remove ability for ppl who sit inside in plex and hunt for farmers. Before I can jump inside plex in cloak and kill damn stabed/cloaked farmer. Now cant if I wasnt jump inside before them. Still they will run cause are stabbed... Just block entrance with wcs/cloak if they arent stealth ships like | astero/stealth bomber/cover ops |. You fix nothing CCP. Shame on you, FW still ****** up totally for ppl who want fight. You create zone for farmers with cloak/warp stabs. You are farming on customers like they farming LP...

I quit FW today, nothing to do there.

ps. sorry for my bad english, that isnt my primary language :P

the most effective way to play the game will remain 'boring away the other player'

this makes a bad game.

A solo plexer will not try to fight when there is a huge possibility he is going to be outnumbered 6 to 1, who in their right mind would?