Cloak up or leave grid, countdown resets.

Maybe replace the orbiting mechanic with a deployable you need to defend? That would render the whole cloaking and warpstabbing obsolete.

How would you design a system that makes fighting more profitable than 'farming'? I can't imagine that this wouldn't quickly be abused by people just burning ships.

To say that it isn't the cloaks/stabs that is the problem isn't really thinking it through. You need a resource that's worth fighting over in order to generate fights. To suggest that you could make a system that is purely PvP would be silly.

Part of what FW is, is a labor pool of work hours that converts time spent plexing into LP, which converts ships and modules and other goods into better ships/modules/implants/decryptors that wouldn't otherwise exist. It effectively becomes specialized labor, so at its root it provides a core economic product to the community. To make the warzone entirely about PvP would be to overlook this.

Large plex change, is awesome.

NPC respawn I have mixed feelings on, especially if the respawns will interfere with PVP.

The cloak change solves no issue that we have, and actually kills one of the most reliable ways to hunt stabbed farmers, to say nothing for the baited ambush tactic using cov ops type ships to set traps. I think this change hurts more than it helps.

Cloaky farmers tend to be at their keyboards and checking d-scan so they can cloak before you are on grid or can get a target lock on them. Now all they need to do is sit 29,500 meters off the button and move for 2 seconds before they can cloak up. The only difference between a cloaking farmer and one that will otherwise run is that the cloaky farmer does not need to warp off/warp back.

I think many people in the FW community are more concerned with the AFK plexers running multi stabbed frigs that are able to plex with minimized clients, using an audio cue to let them know when to maximize and warp off. The respawn change may do something to cause them to come back to the keys every few minutes, but the jury is still out on whether the respawn will tip the balance in what would otherwise be an extremely close 1v1 PVP fight. I've personally been in many fights where even a couple hundred damage would tip the balance.

NPC respawn I have mixed feelings on, especially if the respawns will interfere with PVP.

Cloaky farmers tend to be at their keyboards and checking d-scan so they can cloak before you are on grid or can get a target lock on them.

Warp core stabs give your ship a penalty when you fit them. Why not extend this penalty?

Just going to toss out some numbers here:
1 warp core stab: increases time on button by 50%
2 warp core stabs increases time on button by 75%
3 warp core stabs increases time on button by 87.5%
etc. etc.

Those numbers might be a bit harsh, but I'm sure they portray the idea.

From what I've heard, a good portion are bots. Namely, they cloak when you get on d-scan, but if you enter the plex and cloak up, they immediately decloak to run the timer. No player at the keyboard would do that, since they'd have seen that Astero enter the plex and know not to decloak. Having a change like this will hose those kinds of bots while not penalizing actual players who are actually at the keyboard.

There should be a neutral NPC in the plex that does not agress you. The timer won't move while the NPC is alive. The NPC does minimal dmg, but has a reasonable tank. The NPC respawns every few minutes.

excellent changes really. much needed

however the large outposts needs to be gated. they have to be or there will be no point in running any kind of small bc fleets.

all it will encourage is alpha nado fleets

...which will encourage Maulus / Celestis / Crucifier / Arbitrator spam, which leads to brawling comps, which get countered by kiting comps, which get countered by Nado fleets, which...

It'll be interesting to see how the Large Oupost introduction changes things. It'll definitely incentivize shipping up and trying out comps not as dependent on the gate mechanism meta. Given the bloodbaths that already happen whenever we invade main staging systems, the FW as lolfrigs might really get turned on it's ear in a hurry.

I for one look forward to the challenge of mastering more open-field style combat. Methinks the local pirate gangs are going to get a rather rude awakening once the top militia corps get better at running shinier open field fleet comps.

first of all thank you for including large plexes in the regular FW spawn cycle we asked for it since inferno - a really nice change.

The other two changes however i really can't support. The problem is that they most likely will make plexing more annoying without fixing anything.

If you are after LP running or hiding is still more efficient than fighting, making running or hiding more difficult does not fix the problem its just a dirty way of dealing of the symptoms of the mechanics.

CCP has a history of fixing symptoms instead of the problem, for example if you look back what happened in inferno, plex layout changes like moving the beacon closer to the warpin or the requirement to kill the rat instead of tanking it did not help at all to motivate farmers to get out the vicious circle and use pvp ships (it really is the first step, if you don't do this you have no choice but running away).



A fix of the problem would NOT be to prohibit cloaks, or block stabs. It would be to penalize running or hiding. Sounds horribly complicated right? FEAR NOT ITS THE EASIEST FIX IN THE WORLD. I am sure nobody in the forums EVER suggested timer resets as most obvious fix to the problem. Kappa

So how would a CLEAN FIX OF THE PROBLEM look you ask? There are many many variations of the timer reset or rollback proposal. Here a few examples:
- timer ticks backwards in accelerated fashion till it reaches neutral state if a player waits in the plex
- timer ticks backwards till it reaches the neutral (normal speed) state if everything left the beacon
- timer resets immediately (imagine you could spend lp on the plex structure to reset it)
- ... just a few EXAMPLES

you say, hey thats not fair since i might waste so much time of my life plexing. FEAR NOT timer length is not set in stone.
- imagine someone would reduce timer length and payouts to balance the now fixed mechanics between EXPANSIONS

you say everybody would blob and i can't solo anymore (sidenote: i solo pvp at least 90% of my gametime)
- firstly, the nature of blobs is that they a) get killed by a larger blob or b) dissolve quickly since there is no other blob around
- secondly, having a blob you still won't be able to cover whole FW space. A route through all amarr systems alone has 32+ jumps, and thats half of the warzone. (cal-gal WZ is much larger btw) How often do you think a blob would fly this route?
- thirdly, crazy concepts like patrol gangs might actually work, you could defend (selected) systems or disrupt your opponent defending systems WITHOUT TRADING TIME 1:1 WITH FARMERS
- solo farming WILL STILL PERFECTLY WORK, all you would have to do is to use a pvp fit an pick a quiet system


so what would happen after implementing the MOST OBVIOUS FIX IN EVE HISTORY you ask?
- stabs, cloaks will serve the original purpose: protecting your ship but using them for make LP won't work anymore
- plexing will be a mechanic to create confilct and you would see more fights in them
- frigs will stick to novices, destroyers to small plexes and cruisers to medium plexes
- people will plex together in great joy, celebrating the new plexing mechanics

OMG the fix is PERFECT you say, do we still need the other stuff?
- actually no, rats, artificial rules like cloak inhibitors don't matter anymore, you could just remove them or keep them... doesn't matter

but you still want to EXPLOIT A BROKEN SYSTEM TO FARM LP WITHOUT RISK OR EFFORT you say?
- no problem m8. FW covers EVERYTHING. You can fly pve missions which allow you to complete them without NPC agro, 0 risk... you can cloak any time, watch a movie etc. Best of all: it doesn't influence sov and its the perfect solo mechanic DESIGNED TO BE NO CONFLICT DRIVER

but what if this change is made and it DOESN'T WORK (fictional, highly theoretical scenario - won't happen ever)
- luckily eve has now a new 6 week deployment model so you could implement the "we will monitor the situation and tweak the system later" - inferno - CCP Soundwave - before riot - promise with minimal effort


thanks for listening and thanks for the large plex change

epic post]

~stuff~

- timer resets immediately (imagine you could spend lp on the plex structure to reset it)

...

There will still be plenty of opportunities for newer players to make LP but it will require more effort. Find a dead system (plenty of them) or run missions.

First off that's an excellent post Bienator.

Secondly there should be no reason for a sec loss inside a plex. Activating the gate doesn't have to make you a suspect. Just make it so there is no adjustments to your sec status when you engage in a plex. It is a huge disadvantage to wait until the pirate has dictated range and fired the first shot before I attack. FW pilots should not be penalized for defending themselves against an aggressive act. And entering a plex is an aggressive act.

(unless they are just entering to hold a nice conversation with you about your ship of choice. In that case, hi pirate how are you doing!?)