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El Ponja
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Posted - 2006.06.17 23:41:00 -
[151]
signed
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.18 00:20:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Rockbox LASER
Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation
The Explosive damage everyone is talking about would in real life be caused by rapid expansion inside the target object causing it to expload.
Exactly. Angelic was probably confusing electrons with photons. (Nevermind that simply shooting electrons at something won't give you an EM field. And also nevermind that an EM field can fry electronics, but cannot destroy physical objects - have fun trying to melt steel or even warm ice with a magnet.)
It's really totally pointless to try to justify anything with RL physics here. Lasers are right now already the most "unrealistic" weapons in EVE. Not that it matters. It's a game.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.06.18 03:42:00 -
[153]
Originally by: McCool
Originally by: Nifel
A geddon can fit a light tank with pulses :|. Stop making **** up pls :<.
A geddon with maxed fitting skills and 7 megapulses will have 3300 pg left and 284.25 cpu left. More than enough to fit a 'light' tank.
a light passiv armor tank that is. there just no way to fit cap booster and some kind of armor rep on it.
Tempests can only use 6 dual 425 MM and 2 siege to achieve its tank which lasts all of 15 cycles of a Heavy Injector... why not try using Dual Heavy Pulses and a NOS ? Then you can fit your tank just fine.
I haven't fought any good Megathrons lately that had 2 Large Armor reps because they don't need it and can't fit it cpu wise. Why should geddons be the same.
Typhoons can't fit 4 D.425 IIs and 4 arb siege and any sort of real tank that can stand up to short range damage dealers like the tempest, mega or raven eitherl. It is inferior now in every way to the tempest as it has been for a while unless you are a kiter and drone expert.
Domi... without ewar and NOS its a goner... well...
so what is your point about a geddon not being able to do this or that again?
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Frezik
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Posted - 2006.06.18 04:01:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas I support your idea.
I also want to bring up the "Waah, we want explosive T2 crystals!" issue to this thread...since that's what we want!
Think up something equally cool for minies as explosive crystals, and you can have it. ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
Commander Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.06.18 05:26:00 -
[155]
signed
and seriously all these gallente pilots that can't understand what we mean, try flying some amarr ships, cause you seriously have no clue what your talking about.
the only amarr ships that is good PVP outside of fleet battles atm is the pilgrim and the curse, and these are freaking vampa-drones ships.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.06.18 05:38:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Nifel Edited by: Nifel on 17/06/2006 14:44:42
Originally by: Sniser
Originally by: McCool
Originally by: Nifel
A geddon can fit a light tank with pulses :|. Stop making **** up pls :<.
A geddon with maxed fitting skills and 7 megapulses will have 3300 pg left and 284.25 cpu left. More than enough to fit a 'light' tank.
a light passiv armor tank that is. there just no way to fit cap booster and some kind of armor rep on it.
yep when i say light tank i want say a cap booster + 1 rep ( im not telling even 2 large rep just 1)
light tank would be: 1 heavy cap booster and
2 or 3 eanm t2 + 2 Large reps or 1 or 2 eanm t2 + dmg control + 2 Large reps or the same but instead 2 large rep... 1 rep + 1600 mm plate
Sigh...
1x geddon 20625.0 pg after skills 562.5 cpu after skills
fittings: high: 7x mega pulse laser II
med: 1x 100mn mwd t2 1x web/scram 1x heavy electrochemical capicator booster I
lows:
2x large armor repairer II 3x energized apadative nano membrane II 2x reactor control unit II 1x co-processor II
after fitting and with weapons upgrade lvl5 and advanced weapons upgrade lvl5:
pg: 20625 * 1.15 * 1.15 - 2750 * 7 * 0.9 (7x mp2) - 2300*2 (2x lar2) - 1375 (mwd2) - 1750 (heavy cap booster)
leaves 2226.56 pg after fittings. note that the fittings that require 1 pg is not included in this
cpu: 562.5 * 1.1 - 53*7*0.75 (7x mp2) - 30*3 (3x eanm2) - 55*2 (2x lar2) - 15*2 (2x rcu2) - 40 (heavy cap booster) leaves 70.5 cpu after fittings. note that the 3rd mid is not included here but enough cpu is left to go with scrambler/web or even ew of your choice
You also have the 5x heavies that can be explosive or web drones or whatever you fancy.
A mega pilot with one less slot will have to give up 1x eanm2 to fit an equalivent setup with his heaviest hitting guns (neutrons2).
A tempest pilot will have 1 lowslot left over for a dmg mod and ample enough cpu left for ewar mods.
In all cases none of the ships have enough cpu/pg left to utilize their utility slots with anything that's a battleship mod (nos for example). And while the tempest pilot seemingly is the one best off he'll be fighting in falloff 100% of the time since being webbed equals death for an acpest. He'll also lack the 2x nos that's so vital to break the tank of enemy ships since his damage is effectively cut in half.
*edit* And if 2x lar along with hardeners is a light tank I'd love to hear what you consider to be a heavy tank.
Nifel wins thread, stop whining and learn to play :l
Gronsak is Tux's angry alt. |
Nebuli
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Posted - 2006.06.18 05:47:00 -
[157]
Blasters got boosted? when? they got a change in fittings that doesnt make bugger all difference, so gal vs amarr is the same as its always been.
Take one mega, add an explosive, kinetic and thermal hardner, which is a very common set up hardened tank, guess what, EM is the lowest resist on shield and armour.
Sorry but I'm realy not seeing where the problem is with Amarr.
Oh and saying hunting angels in a Amarr ship is impossible, boohoo lol, its not alot better in a mega, minnie *****them, whats the problem here? its called diversity, and besides when were ships balanced with pve in mind?
CEO - Art of War |
Angelic Resolution
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Posted - 2006.06.18 07:38:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Rockbox LASER
Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation
The Explosive damage everyone is talking about would in real life be caused by rapid expansion inside the target object causing it to expload.
Exactly. Angelic was probably confusing electrons with photons. (Nevermind that simply shooting electrons at something won't give you an EM field. And also nevermind that an EM field can fry electronics, but cannot destroy physical objects - have fun trying to melt steel or even warm ice with a magnet.)
It's really totally pointless to try to justify anything with RL physics here. Lasers are right now already the most "unrealistic" weapons in EVE. Not that it matters. It's a game.
Probably why I failed that part of physics in yr 12.. oh well ;) You're right though, it is a game but damn so enjoyed ;)
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El Ponja
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Posted - 2006.06.18 15:11:00 -
[159]
signed for a good needed change
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.19 00:56:00 -
[160]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Nifel wins thread, stop whining and learn to play :l
Geddon with 2xt2 lar?
Ahahahahhaha!
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Frools
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Posted - 2006.06.19 01:19:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Frools on 19/06/2006 01:22:53
Originally by: Godar Marak
Geddon with 2xt2 lar?
Ahahahahhaha!
why are you laughing? its quite possible and its very effective even better with dhp imo
7x dhp II 1x heavy nos
1x heavy electrochem 1x fleeting web 1x 20km disruptor
1x co-pro II 3x HS II 2x eanmII 2x larII
if you use a damage control instead of second eanmII you can even use t1 co-pro or if you want a bit more tank go 3 eanmII and 2 hsII but thats the basic layout
the geddon is a great ship, it really doesnt need any changes, a little bit more cpu wouldn't go amiss but its not vital just would be nice
problems with amarr are simple: * apoc needs a proper bonus, resists would be good * cruiser and frig guns need a little bit more damage (because the range advantage is insignificant at cruiser/frig engagement ranges) * cruiser and frig guns/ships need fitting looked at, either lots more grid for the ship or lots less grid for fitting * radio needs unnerfing, no other turret ammo has a single damage type at max range and it just sucks
edit: forgot the last problem with amarr * idiot whiners complaining about stupid **** that doesnt really need changing at all, drowning out all the legitimate problems with their stupidity...
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.06.19 02:07:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Epsilon 1 on 19/06/2006 02:08:24
This thread still alive Doesn't really matter, everyone's training minmatar and gallente atm tier III amarr bs will be a 2nd apoc
edit: spelling
Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Aemilus Brutus
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Posted - 2006.06.19 02:16:00 -
[163]
Must not have gotten the memo
I'm training Caldari and letting my Apoc rust.
I still like your idea btw
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.19 03:21:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Aramendel
It's really totally pointless to try to justify anything with RL physics here. Lasers are right now already the most "unrealistic" weapons in EVE. Not that it matters. It's a game.
How exactly are lasers the most unrealistic? As far as I am concerned, lasers are by far the most viable weapon for long range combat. The time it would take for a rail slug or especially a traditional projectile round to reach a target 100+ km away would make them both pretty much useless for hitting moving targets. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Nifel
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Posted - 2006.06.19 08:23:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Nifel wins thread, stop whining and learn to play :l
Geddon with 2xt2 lar?
Ahahahahhaha!
About to leave for a week but case in point:
He said it was impossible to fit. I showed him it is possible to fit.
Also... you should take a look at the setup below with dual heavy beam pulser 2's. With the 3 damage mods you outdamage the mp geddon with no damage mods by about 40% and can fit everything else to your heart's content.
Now can this thread die?:(
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) |
Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.19 11:14:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Frools
why are you laughing? its quite possible and its very effective even better with dhp imo
7x dhp II 1x heavy nos
1x heavy electrochem 1x fleeting web 1x 20km disruptor
1x co-pro II 3x HS II 2x eanmII 2x larII
Why do you want to web when the geddon with dhp with t2 ammo has optimal of 13km? If you get in web range and get webbed yourself your target can creep withing 9k and you cant hit anything.
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Frools
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Posted - 2006.06.19 11:43:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Godar Marak Why do you want to web when the geddon with dhp with t2 ammo has optimal of 13km? If you get in web range and get webbed yourself your target can creep withing 9k and you cant hit anything.
you've clearly never fitted or used a dual heavy pulse in your life
oh heres a suggestion, if you're finding you cant hit at 9k with conflag, switch to MF!
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.19 11:51:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Aramendel on 19/06/2006 11:52:52
Originally by: Letifer Deus How exactly are lasers the most unrealistic? As far as I am concerned, lasers are by far the most viable weapon for long range combat. The time it would take for a rail slug or especially a traditional projectile round to reach a target 100+ km away would make them both pretty much useless for hitting moving targets.
"Unrealistic" in terms of "compared how lasers work in RL", not "being a viable weapon for space combat".
For example, that of all weapons in EVE lasers are from a RL viewpoint the one with the least potential of creating EM fields (nevermind that the whole concept of EM damage in EVE is rather silly). The other major thing is that a RL laser does not suddenly stop working at a certain range, it's effeciency diminishes slowly. A very common argument against other damagetypes for lasers is "it's not realistic" - those people miss/ignore that lasers how they are in EVE are already very unrealistic. It's not that hybrid, projectiles and missles work exactly like their RL parents, but their conversion into the game is still far more realistic than the one of lasers.
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Azirapheal
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Posted - 2006.06.19 12:07:00 -
[169]
musings of a n00b.
i started out as a PURE AMARR (caps needed) i came in to the game, thinking OMGTEHAMARRSHIPSWTFPWNBBQ! then i started ratting, and in a maller, with a v.good armor tanki noticed that my lasers, ate my cap, the enemies NOS, ate my cap, transversal screwed me over BIG style and that my armor tank, while sustainable on its own... stopped working very quickly even with pulses
lasers are a great weapon in theory, but why do i now fly minmatar interceptors, cruisers and battleships for pvp...
and why do i fly a raven for 00 ratting?
and why in the name of amarr havent i trained an amarr ship/gunenry skill in 2 months?
go figure
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Yodohime Kibagami
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Posted - 2006.06.19 12:25:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Yodohime Kibagami on 19/06/2006 12:29:59
futility
Woot for realism arguements in a GAME forum
It is so because CCP says so, just be thankful they didnt decide all caldari toons must have pink panties as hats.
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.19 15:43:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Frools
why are you laughing? its quite possible and its very effective even better with dhp imo
7x dhp II 1x heavy nos
1x heavy electrochem 1x fleeting web 1x 20km disruptor
1x co-pro II 3x HS II 2x eanmII 2x larII
First you needed use a cpu module, The others dont need it, second other bs can fit better weapons why we have use the lowest? Mega can fit Ion Blaster +gank+tank, tempest can fit 800mm(their best autocannon weapons) + tank + some damage + ecm and Armageddon need use the lowest weapons also use a cpu module? where is there the balance?
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Frools
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Posted - 2006.06.19 16:01:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Sniser
First you needed use a cpu module, The others dont need it, second other bs can fit better weapons why we have use the lowest? Mega can fit Ion Blaster +gank+tank, tempest can fit 800mm(their best autocannon weapons) + tank + some damage + ecm and Armageddon need use the lowest weapons also use a cpu module? where is there the balance?
you cant get ions + heavy nos + dual LARII tank on a mega with damage mods you can do electrons + heavy nos + dual larII but you still need a co-proII and you only have 2 mag stabs compared to geddons 3 sinks fitting difficulty seems pretty comparable from playing with quickfit (cant fly a mega) if you can get a good ions + dual larII setup on a mega please post it, i'd like to see how its possible tempest doesnt seem to be able to fit dual larII tank + damage mods either, suppose thats made up for with mids for ew though
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.19 16:08:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 19/06/2006 16:15:44 Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?
Originally by: Frools
you cant get ions + heavy nos + dual LARII tank on a mega with damage mods
I do believe you cant fit it even w/o the heavy nos.
Originally by: Frools
if you can get a good ions + dual larII setup on a mega please post it, i'd like to see how its possible
You'd have to swap the MWD for an AB to run a full tank, which severely limits the effective range. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Frools
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Posted - 2006.06.19 16:44:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?
dont see that it does really, tier 2 isnt automatically better than tier 1, if it was why would anyone fly the tier 1's? they're just different roles
apoc is about tank (or something ) geddon is about damage mega is about damage (right?) domi is about drones
its not a case of tier 2 > tier 1, they're just different i dont see why the 2 damage ships shouldnt be fairly similar
to quote sarmaul (on cruisers but same applies)
Originally by: Sarmaul
lease stop with their "tier2 is better than tier1" syndrome. The Phoon is tier1 and out-damages and out-tanks the tempest. The Dominix is tier1 and out-damages the Megathron. The Geddon is tier1 one and out-damages the Apoc.
Each race has 8 combat cruisers: Maller and Omen (Amarr), Caracal and Moa (Caldari), Thorax and Vexor (Gallente), Rupture and Stabber (Minmatar). Each one should be comparable with each other, regardless of how many ranks of Crusier to need to fly them.
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Alliandre Breton
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Posted - 2006.06.19 16:56:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Frools
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?
dont see that it does really, tier 2 isnt automatically better than tier 1, if it was why would anyone fly the tier 1's? they're just different roles
geddon is about damage
Why bother with a tank if its only for damage... tier 2 BS have more pg
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.19 17:01:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 19/06/2006 17:05:42
Originally by: Frools
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?
dont see that it does really, tier 2 isnt automatically better than tier 1, if it was why would anyone fly the tier 1's?
you're telling me that an armageddon, costing $35 million less than a megathron, should be just as good as a megathron at everything? No, it shouldn't. So an arma can't gank and tank as well as a megathron, buhu, it's 35 mil less. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Frools
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Posted - 2006.06.19 17:05:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
you're telling me that an armageddon, costing $35 million less than a megathron, should be just as good? No, it shouldn't.
well then you better nerf the **** out of the domi then cos it will beat just about any other bs 1v1....
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.19 17:08:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Frools
well then you better nerf the **** out of the domi then cos it will beat just about any other bs 1v1....
I can *****a non-EW domi with a blasterthron, and I bet I could do it with a ganka too, I just haven't tried. I'm ignoring EW domis because I personally feel EW is rather overpowered atm. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.19 18:42:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 19/06/2006 17:05:42
Originally by: Frools
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?
dont see that it does really, tier 2 isnt automatically better than tier 1, if it was why would anyone fly the tier 1's?
you're telling me that an armageddon, costing $35 million less than a megathron, should be just as good as a megathron at everything? No, it shouldn't. So an arma can't gank and tank as well as a megathron, buhu, it's 35 mil less.
A Domi can tank better than an apoc and it can cause more damage.
When are you going to realise that this tier 1 and tier 2 argument of yours is rubbish ?
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.19 20:17:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Frools
Originally by: Sniser
First you needed use a cpu module, The others dont need it, second other bs can fit better weapons why we have use the lowest? Mega can fit Ion Blaster +gank+tank, tempest can fit 800mm(their best autocannon weapons) + tank + some damage + ecm and Armageddon need use the lowest weapons also use a cpu module? where is there the balance?
you cant get ions + heavy nos + dual LARII tank on a mega with damage mods you can do electrons + heavy nos + dual larII but you still need a co-proII and you only have 2 mag stabs compared to geddons 3 sinks fitting difficulty seems pretty comparable from playing with quickfit (cant fly a mega) if you can get a good ions + dual larII setup on a mega please post it, i'd like to see how its possible tempest doesnt seem to be able to fit dual larII tank + damage mods either, suppose thats made up for with mids for ew though
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