Originally by: Epsilon 1

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Simple solution: Switch crystal EM damage for THERMAL and THERMAL for EM. ~~Same damage on shields, more damage on armour (not tanked targets). Having EM as primary is pure bolox. HEAT Sinks are called that way for a reason

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Quote:

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[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN

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Originally by: hylleX

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Edited by: hylleX on 29/05/2006 10:37:16
One of the biggest problems with amarr damage types is that our frigates cant compete with the other races frigs. Because amarr do most EM damage and all ships have 60% resist and minne T1 ships have 70% (T2 minnie is just crazy) so basically what that means is since "no one" tanks a frig with hardners and such its usually plates it means your lasers pretty much suck against everyone while they do good damage too you.

If the damage types where switched as proposed here it would help a little anyway. And also anything that makes me do more damage to minnie T2 ships is good atm its not even funny how immune they are to lasers while amarr is just as vulnerable to minne as others.

Btw maybe you should change the title on this thread

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Originally by: Evengard

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All this just crap. If you want get more damage, train T2 crystals. They have Thermal damage. I fly Amarr ships for more then 2 years, and never had any problems with it. If you need more damage, take Arma fit mode damage modes.

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Quote:

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This involves both PvP and PvE.

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Quote:

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And for little example: I fly on interdictor. mostly blow apart any ship with my 7 turret DpS. Once i tryed to engage Retribution. Even could not brake to half of his armour. And thats with 80% Em resist...

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Originally by: Evengard

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All this just crap. If you want get more damage, train T2 crystals. They have Thermal damage. I fly Amarr ships for more then 2 years, and never had any problems with it. If you need more damage, take Arma fit mode damage modes.

This involves both PvP and PvE.

And for little example: I fly on interdictor. mostly blow apart any ship with my 7 turret DpS. Once i tryed to engage Retribution. Even could not brake to half of his armour. And thats with 80% Em resist...

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Quote:

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[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN

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Originally by: Godar Marak

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Ever tried taking out Angel bs's? Its by no means impossible, it just tskes forever.

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Quote:

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"He did not know, Who he was ******* with."

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Originally by: King Dave

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Edited by: King Dave on 30/05/2006 17:06:37
basically this is how it is at the moment

EVEYR OTHER RACE IN THE GAME CAN PUT OUT ALL DAMAGE TYPES!!!!

gallente - its drones are one of its main damage types, and it can use all 4 different types, they even hurt alot. So no guns are necesary on the ship atall leaving those 6 - 8 high slots for tanking purposes.

Minmatar - Every1 whines about z0mg minmatar dont hurt enough, there closest range ammo does 3 different types of damage -_-, also for sniping with good skills you can fit a full rack of there largest guns and a full set of damage/tracking enhancser..

Caldari - they can use missiles which even make them track better, not to mention every type of damage that ever existed.

Amarr - Em/ thermal with bonuses to tanking on there main warship.

Yes my geddon can get dps of over 1000 still, but so can the megathron with less skills and a cheaper fitting... Also the megathron can also fit armor repairors with that not just plates.

that sums it up.

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Originally by: Gariuys

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But you're welcome to having thermal as your main damage type.... oh wait, GALLENTE already have that. So bugger off.

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Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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Originally by: King Dave

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Edited by: King Dave on 30/05/2006 17:06:37
basically this is how it is at the moment

EVEYR OTHER RACE IN THE GAME CAN PUT OUT ALL DAMAGE TYPES!!!!

gallente - its drones are one of its main damage types, and it can use all 4 different types, they even hurt alot. So no guns are necesary on the ship atall leaving those 6 - 8 high slots for tanking purposes.

Minmatar - Every1 whines about z0mg minmatar dont hurt enough, there closest range ammo does 3 different types of damage -_-, also for sniping with good skills you can fit a full rack of there largest guns and a full set of damage/tracking enhancser..

Caldari - they can use missiles which even make them track better, not to mention every type of damage that ever existed.

Amarr - Em/ thermal with bonuses to tanking on there main warship.

Yes my geddon can get dps of over 1000 still, but so can the megathron with less skills and a cheaper fitting... Also the megathron can also fit armor repairors with that not just plates.

that sums it up.

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Drones + launcher hardpoints.

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Originally by: Gariuys

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This is a joke thread right? And a not funny one at that.

Blasters got boosted? when? Cause they still suck monkey ballz.

Amarr doesn't have true close range, it has pulse lasers, which do close range damage at midrange.

But you're welcome to having thermal as your main damage type.... oh wait, GALLENTE already have that. So bugger off.

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Originally by: Evengard

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All this just crap. If you want get more damage, train T2 crystals. They have Thermal damage. I fly Amarr ships for more then 2 years, and never had any problems with it. If you need more damage, take Arma fit mode damage modes.

This involves both PvP and PvE.

And for little example: I fly on interdictor. mostly blow apart any ship with my 7 turret DpS. Once i tryed to engage Retribution. Even could not brake to half of his armour. And thats with 80% Em resist...

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Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii

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Originally by: Evengard

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All this just crap. If you want get more damage, train T2 crystals. They have Thermal damage. I fly Amarr ships for more then 2 years, and never had any problems with it. If you need more damage, take Arma fit mode damage modes.

This involves both PvP and PvE.

And for little example: I fly on interdictor. mostly blow apart any ship with my 7 turret DpS. Once i tryed to engage Retribution. Even could not brake to half of his armour. And thats with 80% Em resist...

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I have 9.2 mill sp in Amarr Gunnery

Surgical strike 5
Pulse Spec 4
Amarr bs 5
Rapid firing thing 5

My pure gankageddon can be laughed at by anything with a heavy resisted 2 rep tank. And ever used conflag ? If you have you'l know your cap goes weeeeee gone in no time at all

Alliaanna

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Originally by: Gariuys

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This is a joke thread right? And a not funny one at that.

Blasters got boosted? when? Cause they still suck monkey ballz.

Amarr doesn't have true close range, it has pulse lasers, which do close range damage at midrange.

But you're welcome to having thermal as your main damage type.... oh wait, GALLENTE already have that. So bugger off.

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so can all amarr ships get a bulit in bouns to web and disruptor range , so atleast we can lock down a target while we do the most tanked dmg type to them.

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Most tanked damage type is thermal....

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Amarr doesn't have true close range, it has pulse lasers, which do close range damage at midrange.

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Yes it is...

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Originally by: Etherios

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Edited by: Etherios on 31/05/2006 11:30:11
TO all in this thread guys if u want solo kills dont use amarr simple as that... i love eve for having these diferences in what each race can do best... or cant do at all.

each ship has its good and bads ... test think setups test again ... try to be better and not expect CCP to give u the best or to nerf other so u can do better...

In Fleet battles for example Apocs/Armas have the best dps.

Also something last dont say my apoc can t kill ur tempest CCP plz fix.. i mean wth ... if ccp changes something then the tempest pilots will start my temp cant kill apoc etc etc etc
All ships can kill all others depends on the situation....

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Originally by: Ithildin

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OP: Not a bad suggestion, but it's just short of good. Amarr are supposed to do primary EM, but the question is "Why are Amarr doing so MUCH EM compared to TH?"

There are some crystals that do significantly more EM than TH, mainly long ranged crystals, and that's wrong.

Also, EM is way better than TH or KIN when shooting on active tanks, but since passive tanks have become so much better as of late... Maybe ask for a slight boost to active tanks will have the desired effect in a round-about way ;)

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Originally by: Emeline Cabernet

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taken into account what a set of t2 crystals cost, and how many shots they fire?

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Originally by: Swethren

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I don't get this.

I've done the math on the Omen vs Thorax and the omens DPS is higher than the thorax, when you start taking into account reload times, the DPS really starts to stretch ahead.

Okay fine, armour has a base resist of 60% usualy, shields have none and most of the time a base %20 Therm. You rip through shields and not so much through armour. Shield tankers have to waste at min 2 slots to tank against Amarr dmg.

You also have drones, not the capacity that Gallente come with, but considering you already staggering DPS, it's a nice added bonus.

I haven't done the math on Large Lasers vs Blasters/Hybrids, but I can't see the outcome being diffrent from that of the Medium results.

I'd say you can start having dmg increases when you start using ammo, hows 250shots per crystal sound? Some added reload times too, 10s good enough?

Swethren

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Originally by: Swethren

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I don't get this.

I've done the math on the Omen vs Thorax and the omens DPS is higher than the thorax, when you start taking into account reload times, the DPS really starts to stretch ahead.

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Originally by: Frools

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Originally by: Swethren

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I don't get this.

I've done the math on the Omen vs Thorax and the omens DPS is higher than the thorax, when you start taking into account reload times, the DPS really starts to stretch ahead.

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dude, your calculator is broken

using quickfit with my skills (mirrored my amarr skills over to gallente tho)

3 damage mods on both

amarr cruiser 5, pulse spec 4
omen + 4 focused pulse (we're doing viable setups here not imaginary) + 3 warriors = ~350dps with conflag

gallente cruiser 5, blaster spec 4
thorax + 5 ion II's + 5 valkyries = ~440 with anti-matter or 527 with void

ok so now you're going to whine about range
fit void and you're doing around about 400dps
optimal + falloff = 10.5km for the blasters
optimal + falloff = 10km for the pulses
oh whats that, you're doing more damage at slightly further range you say? balance ftw...

reload is largely irrelevant, its going to take over 5 minutes to empty those blasters, how many fights last that long?

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii

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Originally by: Evengard

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All this just crap. If you want get more damage, train T2 crystals. They have Thermal damage. I fly Amarr ships for more then 2 years, and never had any problems with it. If you need more damage, take Arma fit mode damage modes.

This involves both PvP and PvE.

And for little example: I fly on interdictor. mostly blow apart any ship with my 7 turret DpS. Once i tryed to engage Retribution. Even could not brake to half of his armour. And thats with 80% Em resist...

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I have 9.2 mill sp in Amarr Gunnery

Surgical strike 5
Pulse Spec 4
Amarr bs 5
Rapid firing thing 5

My pure gankageddon can be laughed at by anything with a heavy resisted 2 rep tank. And ever used conflag ? If you have you'l know your cap goes weeeeee gone in no time at all

Alliaanna

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And any 2 rep, heavy therm/kin resists ship can laugh at my damage output... and mine is higher then yours... your point being?

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Originally by: Etherios

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Originally by: Emeline Cabernet

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taken into account what a set of t2 crystals cost, and how many shots they fire?

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T2 ammo is expensive dont kno wcorrect costs but the crystals have at least say 1k hits before they die. Its excelent for pvp not for pve tho.


Well if u want to solo u need to think what u can attack. I mean going with any med to long range bs against a Blasterthrown is suicide. Amarr are Med to long range or if u want closer range try nossing + pulse + drones.

To try and change how the damage is or how pulses work so u can have all its wrong in my opinion. And i dont think minnies are the best at soloing... (ignore****aponds they are not counted).

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Originally by: Swethren

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I don't get this.

I've done the math on the Omen vs Thorax and the omens DPS is higher than the thorax, when you start taking into account reload times, the DPS really starts to stretch ahead.

Okay fine, armour has a base resist of 60% usualy, shields have none and most of the time a base %20 Therm. You rip through shields and not so much through armour. Shield tankers have to waste at min 2 slots to tank against Amarr dmg.

You also have drones, not the capacity that Gallente come with, but considering you already staggering DPS, it's a nice added bonus.

I haven't done the math on Large Lasers vs Blasters/Hybrids, but I can't see the outcome being diffrent from that of the Medium results.

I'd say you can start having dmg increases when you start using ammo, hows 250shots per crystal sound? Some added reload times too, 10s good enough?

Swethren

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have you tried to fit the omen with heavy pulse laser IIs it leaves you with about 10grid... you have to use focused meds...

Rax with maxed skills + 5% med hybrid dmg and 5% all turret dmg
4x heavy Ion IIs - Void
1x heavy electron II - Void
1x MFS II
5x Hammerhead IIs
That leaves around 360grid to fit a mwd + rep
Dps 556.88

Omen with maxed skills = %5 med energy turret dmg and %5 all turret dmg
4x Focused med pulse IIs - Conflag
1x HS II
1x Assault Launcher II - Bloodclaws
3x Hobgoblin IIs
That leaves 380ish grid to fit tank etc
Dps 351.813

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Etherios

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Originally by: Emeline Cabernet

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taken into account what a set of t2 crystals cost, and how many shots they fire?

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T2 ammo is expensive dont kno wcorrect costs but the crystals have at least say 1k hits before they die. Its excelent for pvp not for pve tho.


Well if u want to solo u need to think what u can attack. I mean going with any med to long range bs against a Blasterthrown is suicide. Amarr are Med to long range or if u want closer range try nossing + pulse + drones.

To try and change how the damage is or how pulses work so u can have all its wrong in my opinion. And i dont think minnies are the best at soloing... (ignore****aponds they are not counted).

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To me (and my word is hardly gospel) Amarr are better at fighting at range, so I would have to agree with you. If you are going to fight close range, you are gonna have to bleed your opponent with NOS and beat him with DOT, while you kill his tank and sustain yours

Long range...

Megathron with T2 425mm With Javelin 390.664, with no mods on for dmg, Average DPS : 305.737
Geddon with T2 Tachs and Gleam L 474.413 with no mods for dmg, Average DPS : 383.522

Average DPS is taking the dmg done on shields, armour and struct. On the usual base resists of a megathron with base resist, armour and shields.

Notice how the Average DPS is still higher, even though the base resist on armour is 60%.

This is with all skills maxed, except for large rail spec and large beam spec.

Both ships are touting 7 turrets.

Thats quite a differnece in DPS and again, in a fleet battle, when you start factoring in reload times or changing ammo for diffrent ranges, your DOT really starts to outstrip other ships.

So you might not be the best at close range, but your ships and have plenty PG to fit nice big plates and NOS so you can bleed your opponents, while in longe range you make the Gallente look like babies.

Swethren

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Originally by: Swethren

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I don't get this.

I've done the math on the Omen vs Thorax and the omens DPS is higher than the thorax, when you start taking into account reload times, the DPS really starts to stretch ahead.

Okay fine, armour has a base resist of 60% usualy, shields have none and most of the time a base %20 Therm. You rip through shields and not so much through armour. Shield tankers have to waste at min 2 slots to tank against Amarr dmg.

You also have drones, not the capacity that Gallente come with, but considering you already staggering DPS, it's a nice added bonus.

I haven't done the math on Large Lasers vs Blasters/Hybrids, but I can't see the outcome being diffrent from that of the Medium results.

I'd say you can start having dmg increases when you start using ammo, hows 250shots per crystal sound? Some added reload times too, 10s good enough?

Swethren

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have you tried to fit the omen with heavy pulse laser IIs it leaves you with about 10grid... you have to use focused meds...

Rax with maxed skills + 5% med hybrid dmg and 5% all turret dmg
4x heavy Ion IIs - Void
1x heavy electron II - Void
1x MFS II
5x Hammerhead IIs
That leaves around 360grid to fit a mwd + rep
Dps 556.88

Omen with maxed skills = %5 med energy turret dmg and %5 all turret dmg
4x Focused med pulse IIs - Conflag
1x HS II
1x Assault Launcher II - Bloodclaws
3x Hobgoblin IIs
That leaves 380ish grid to fit tank etc
Dps 351.813

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Do the same test with long range weapons and you will notice a curve in the other direction.

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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have you tried to fit the omen with heavy pulse laser IIs it leaves you with about 10grid... you have to use focused meds...

Rax with maxed skills + 5% med hybrid dmg and 5% all turret dmg
4x heavy Ion IIs - Void
1x heavy electron II - Void
1x MFS II
5x Hammerhead IIs
That leaves around 360grid to fit a mwd + rep
Dps 556.88

Omen with maxed skills = %5 med energy turret dmg and %5 all turret dmg
4x Focused med pulse IIs - Conflag
1x HS II
1x Assault Launcher II - Bloodclaws
3x Hobgoblin IIs
That leaves 380ish grid to fit tank etc
Dps 351.813

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Originally by: Swethern

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If you are going to fight close range, you are gonna have to bleed your opponent with NOS and beat him with DOT, while you kill his tank and sustain yours

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Originally by: Swethren

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Average DPS is taking the dmg done on shields, armour and struct. On the usual base resists of a megathron with base resist, armour and shields.

Notice how the Average DPS is still higher, even though the base resist on armour is 60%.

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Originally by: Swethren

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Thats quite a differnece in DPS and again, in a fleet battle, when you start factoring in reload times or changing ammo for diffrent ranges, your DOT really starts to outstrip other ships.

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Originally by: Swethren

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Yes, but considering the rax just had to burn 1/2 it's cap to get into range to use its blasters at 1km it's hardly got a tank left.

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Originally by: Meridius

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Originally by: Swethren

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*lotsofsnip*

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Do the same test with long range weapons and you will notice a curve in the other direction.

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Originally by: Meridius

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Etherios

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Originally by: Emeline Cabernet

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taken into account what a set of t2 crystals cost, and how many shots they fire?

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T2 ammo is expensive dont kno wcorrect costs but the crystals have at least say 1k hits before they die. Its excelent for pvp not for pve tho.


Well if u want to solo u need to think what u can attack. I mean going with any med to long range bs against a Blasterthrown is suicide. Amarr are Med to long range or if u want closer range try nossing + pulse + drones.

To try and change how the damage is or how pulses work so u can have all its wrong in my opinion. And i dont think minnies are the best at soloing... (ignore****aponds they are not counted).

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To me (and my word is hardly gospel) Amarr are better at fighting at range, so I would have to agree with you. If you are going to fight close range, you are gonna have to bleed your opponent with NOS and beat him with DOT, while you kill his tank and sustain yours

Long range...

Megathron with T2 425mm With Javelin 390.664, with no mods on for dmg, Average DPS : 305.737
Geddon with T2 Tachs and Gleam L 474.413 with no mods for dmg, Average DPS : 383.522

Average DPS is taking the dmg done on shields, armour and struct. On the usual base resists of a megathron with base resist, armour and shields.

Notice how the Average DPS is still higher, even though the base resist on armour is 60%.

This is with all skills maxed, except for large rail spec and large beam spec.

Both ships are touting 7 turrets.

Thats quite a differnece in DPS and again, in a fleet battle, when you start factoring in reload times or changing ammo for diffrent ranges, your DOT really starts to outstrip other ships.

So you might not be the best at close range, but your ships and have plenty PG to fit nice big plates and NOS so you can bleed your opponents, while in longe range you make the Gallente look like babies.

Swethren

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Uhh how much armor did you calculate for? In real fleet battles people cram on plates.

Try that math again with well plated ship.

Not to mention you conveniently ignore the range advanage the megas 425mm rails have in addition to being able to put on a 2nd tracking computer II to get gasp...even more range.

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Originally by: Frools

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*moresnip*
believe me, that rax doesnt have to tank for very long (if at all) when its putting 500dps+ of hurt onto an omen

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Originally by: Swethren

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Try have your cargo open and dragging and dropping th crystals, you'll find an improvement. You can't blame your overall DPS on a bug though, a bugs a bug and I don't see the way that Amarr ships and weapons work as a bug.

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Originally by: Gariuys

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This is a joke thread right? And a not funny one at that.

Blasters got boosted? when? Cause they still suck monkey ballz.

Amarr doesn't have true close range, it has pulse lasers, which do close range damage at midrange.

But you're welcome to having thermal as your main damage type.... oh wait, GALLENTE already have that. So bugger off.

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so can all amarr ships get a bulit in bouns to web and disruptor range , so atleast we can lock down a target while we do the most tanked dmg type to them.

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Most tanked damage type is thermal....

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Originally by: Meridius

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If you want to see a huge discrepancy compare the damage type outputs of scorch to null and barrage.

Scorch: 36em 8thrm
Null: 24thrm 20kin
Barrage: 24thrm 20kin

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Meridius

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Originally by: Swethren

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*lotsofsnip*

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Do the same test with long range weapons and you will notice a curve in the other direction.

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You're trying to say an Omen is better then a Thorax???

ROFL

You should try pvp sometime, it's fun.

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Originally by: Meridius

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If you want to see a huge discrepancy compare the damage type outputs of scorch to null and barrage.

Scorch: 36em 8thrm
Null: 24thrm 20kin
Barrage: 24thrm 20kin

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I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention again because it is so important. THIS is part of the problem. In the old days, active tanks didn't harden EM, so while you fought against 60% base, you had more base damage and range than other ships so it worked out.

Then pulses range was nerfed.

Then Radio crystal damage was nerfed.

Then Scorch was introduced with EM equivalent of Radio

Then EM damage was collaterally nerfed by passive tanking boosts which makes any armor tanked ship now commonly have 80% EM resists. (More on some matari T2 boats)

Some adjustments on the damage distribution are in order. Perhaps a slight damage increase to some T1 crystals. A closer look at why some amarr ships have the same grid/cpu (or very close) as thier racial equivalents, yet lasers are so much more difficult to fit. How some amarr ship bonuses are just not equitable when compared to other races's damage bonuses. Why some lasers take WAY WAY more grid and cpu than comparitive racial weapons.

And that should just about do it.

Nyxus

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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umm autos are execlent at very close range, missiles can hit from med-long range up to very close. Also if you burn 1/2 your cap mwding 15-20km then you prolly should try training your cap skills, nav skills and gallente cruiser past 3. So perhaps its time to stop filling this thread with flat out unture statements and fuzzy math.

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Originally by: Meridius

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If you want to see a huge discrepancy compare the damage type outputs of scorch to null and barrage.

Scorch: 36em 8thrm
Null: 24thrm 20kin
Barrage: 24thrm 20kin

---

I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention again because it is so important. THIS is part of the problem. In the old days, active tanks didn't harden EM, so while you fought against 60% base, you had more base damage and range than other ships so it worked out.

Then pulses range was nerfed.

Then Radio crystal damage was nerfed.

Then Scorch was introduced with EM equivalent of Radio

Then EM damage was collaterally nerfed by passive tanking boosts which makes any armor tanked ship now commonly have 80% EM resists. (More on some matari T2 boats)

Some adjustments on the damage distribution are in order. Perhaps a slight damage increase to some T1 crystals. A closer look at why some amarr ships have the same grid/cpu (or very close) as thier racial equivalents, yet lasers are so much more difficult to fit. How some amarr ship bonuses are just not equitable when compared to other races's damage bonuses. Why some lasers take WAY WAY more grid and cpu than comparitive racial weapons.

And that should just about do it.

Nyxus

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That the long range dmg crystals, which is far as I can tell is pretty much like that for all the long range dmg crystals. Which screams to me that Amarr aren't suppose to be overly good at extreame range.

I may have the whole thing wrong, I haven't read enough fluff to know better, if this isn't the case then it does need to be address, but if amarr get better at extreame ranges, they need to get nerfed in the medium department.

Swethren

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Null and barrage arent extreme range ammos and neither is scortch what hes saying is that scorth should have a 24em/20therm dmg just like null has 24therm/20kin and barrage with 24exp/20kin.

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Null and barrage arent extreme range ammos and neither is scortch what hes saying is that scorth should have a 24em/20therm dmg just like null has 24therm/20kin and barrage with 24exp/20kin.

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Null and barrage arent extreme range ammos and neither is scortch what hes saying is that scorth should have a 24em/20therm dmg just like null has 24therm/20kin and barrage with 24exp/20kin.

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But that would make you on par on long range and wtfpwn on medium range. Also, why do you want to be like everyone else. It would end up making the game pretty static and rather boring if every race was just as good as the other in a specific field.

So we'll increase your dmg to everyone elses at long range, we'll nerf your medium dmg, we'll give gallente a bigger optimal on blasters and we'll increase the optimal on projectiles and decrease the falloff (plus other minor things).

I know its not what you want to hear, but if you are so unhappy with the way your ships and weapons work, fit diffrent ships or weapons.

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Originally by: Swethren

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But that would make you on par on long range and wtfpwn on medium range. Also, why do you want to be like everyone else. It would end up making the game pretty static and rather boring if every race was just as good as the other in a specific field...

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Quote:

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I know its not what you want to hear, but if you are so unhappy with the way your ships and weapons work, fit diffrent ships or weapons.

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Originally by: Nyxus

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*LOTSOFSNIP*

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Originally by: Swethren

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I said Amarr are good at the medium to medium long range warfare. At the super close range, gallente beat them and the super far range, gallente beat them.

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Nyxus

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*LOTSOFSNIP*

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Also go back and look what I said. I said Amarr are good at the medium to medium long range warfare. At the super close range, gallente beat them and the super far range, gallente beat them. Caldari are constant over what ever range, which is pretty good. I really don't know enough about minmatar to comment on them, I'll leave that to Sarmual (sp? ).

You can't be good at everything, cause then we have to make the other races just as good at everything and that would be really boring.

Swethren

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Originally by: Kaleeb

---

I completely agree with all these posters but to sum it up your saying:

You want the DPS of current amaar ships

---

Quote:

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You want more cap to run your tech II ammo

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Quote:

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You want the ability of a Blasterthron at close range

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Quote:

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You want the extra falloff of auto's and arties

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Quote:

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You want better tracking for your weapons

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Quote:

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You want another type of damage for your weapons (exp)

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Nyxus

---

*LOTSOFSNIP*

---

Also go back and look what I said. I said Amarr are good at the medium to medium long range warfare. At the super close range, gallente beat them and the super far range, gallente beat them. Caldari are constant over what ever range, which is pretty good. I really don't know enough about minmatar to comment on them, I'll leave that to Sarmual (sp? ).

Swethren

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Originally by: Kaleeb

---

I completely agree with all these posters but to sum it up your saying:

You want the DPS of current amaar ships

You want more cap to run your tech II ammo

You want the ability of a Blasterthron at close range

You want the extra falloff of auto's and arties

You want better tracking for your weapons

You want another type of damage for your weapons (exp)

Well in that case it wont make the geddon/curse/zealot too overpowered infact lets just get rid of minmatar altogether.

The ONLY problem with amaar is the passive tanking changes changed things. As the MC guy said maybe look at possible changes to those rather than crying out to have the abilities of every other race.

---

Originally by: Kaleeb

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Umm if u give amaar a 3rd damage type then that takes away a minmatar only bonus...

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: Kaleeb

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Umm if u give amaar a 3rd damage type then that takes away a minmatar only bonus...

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Right, it's not like caladari can choose between all damage types with missles, as can the gallente droneboats.

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Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii

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Originally by: Evengard

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All this just crap. If you want get more damage, train T2 crystals. They have Thermal damage. I fly Amarr ships for more then 2 years, and never had any problems with it. If you need more damage, take Arma fit mode damage modes.

This involves both PvP and PvE.

And for little example: I fly on interdictor. mostly blow apart any ship with my 7 turret DpS. Once i tryed to engage Retribution. Even could not brake to half of his armour. And thats with 80% Em resist...

---

I have 9.2 mill sp in Amarr Gunnery

Surgical strike 5
Pulse Spec 4
Amarr bs 5
Rapid firing thing 5

My pure gankageddon can be laughed at by anything with a heavy resisted 2 rep tank. And ever used conflag ? If you have you'l know your cap goes weeeeee gone in no time at all

Alliaanna

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And any 2 rep, heavy therm/kin resists ship can laugh at my damage output... and mine is higher then yours... your point being?

---

Because your mega can gank AND run a reasonable tank Armageddon CANT under any circumstance.

Alliaanna

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Originally by: Kaleeb

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whats wrong with posting with a main char?

---

Quote:

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Droneboats dont do that much damage and wont be as effective after the EW/NOS changes,

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Quote:

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and lets not forget all the drone problems e.g. messed up A.I and from a PVE perspective agressing the wrong spawns and having to wait for npc's to agress u first or risk having drones getting shot. From a PVP perspective it only takes an emergency warp to leave all your weapons behind!

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Quote:

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How long does it take to change missiles in comparison to insta changing crystals? And lets not forget the dely for missiles to hit.

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Originally by: Swethren

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No, I'm not saying that the omen is better than a thorax, they serve completely diffrent jobs. Stick a maller against a thorax now, put a plate and 3/4 NOS's on it and the thorax will probably be dead if the pilots are of equal skills.

I'm trying to compare the weapons when put on diffrent ships, with "simlar" bonuses. Omen is for range and trying to keep that range. Maller is for tanking close range and for tanking for a while.

I think the problem is, someone is saying "Gallente are really good at close range, I wanna be good at close range too", which is just not gonna happen.Swethren

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Lasers have compared to other weapons only a rather narrow range area where they are effective. Because of this we have to switch fast between different crystals regulary dependign where our target is.

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Originally by: Ather Ialeas

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Originally by: Godar Marak

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Ever tried taking out Angel bs's? Its by no means impossible, it just tskes forever.

---

I'd like to quote a corpmate of mine considering Angel bs:s and bs with lasers, "Been there, done that, didn't even get the t-shirt."

It's actually very much impossible to take down the >800k Angel bs:s with Amarr unless you have wtfpwn skills.

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Originally by: O'Sirius

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Who flies solo PvP BSes in anywhere but Empire these days anyway? A chance of solo geddon meeting a solo megathron in 0.0 for a 1on1 fight aren't very high. Much more likely they'll both run into some gank squad that makes them spacedust in about 10 seconds.

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Originally by: Crellion

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Originally by: O'Sirius

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Who flies solo PvP BSes in anywhere but Empire these days anyway? A chance of solo geddon meeting a solo megathron in 0.0 for a 1on1 fight aren't very high. Much more likely they'll both run into some gank squad that makes them spacedust in about 10 seconds.

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True. Look at Farjung's reckless vids and you ll think "solo pvp in BSs is the King" 111.

In fact ask poor Farjung how often his Meega ecountered our ceptor squads

[I didnt acitvate my guns on him though. I <3 Farjung]

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Originally by: Kaleeb

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Ok The rest of your points canbe argued out and I can see where your coming from although I dont agree.

This post however is rubbish, so blasters have a large area of effectivness? I wouldnt call 10km large. With lasers you can hit anywhere from 2km to 45km, I wouldnt call that a narrow range area.

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Originally by: Swethren

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Okay, I just did some calcs with the Geddon vs the Mega and max skills with sniping setups with thier high dmg ammo. All skills maxed.

Geddon setup is 7x T2 Tachs, 2x Sensor Booster, 1x Tracking CPU, 2x RCU, 1x 1600mm T2, 3x Heat Sink, 1x Tracking Enhauncer, 1x Adaptive Nano II (nothing else would fit due to CPU )

Mega setup: 7x T2 425mm, 2x Sensor Boosters, 2x Tracking CPU, 1x 1600mm Plate, 3x Mag Stab II, 2x Tracking Enhauncers

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Originally by: Dano Sarum

---

I dont like the idea of switching to THERM as primary, nor do I like how just how badly your cap gets pwned trying to shoot with low range crystals.

Nerf all hybrids would be my idea, Caldari got missiles as primary and Gallente have drones as primary. Nerf hybrids! I dont like at all how blasters own my pulsies at extreme range and hybrids can fire a lot longer then my lasers at range due to my cap getting eaten fast.

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Originally by: Crellion

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My alt has ammar BS 3 and large guns 3. It is scary but with a geddon with 1 heatsinkII Megapulses tech I (not even named) I can even kill 1 Throne (1.5 mill BS) and warp out b4 the other 2 (triple spawn) wtfpown me. The remaining 2 die without warp out. I have been flying Ammar BSs for 3 days. I am highly experienced . Its not a Raven but saying that it needs uber skills to break a 800k tank (war general) is pure BS.

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Originally by: Lucian Alucard

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Apocs are supposed to snipe and geddons are supposed to tank/figt close up so there needs to be either a cpu increase on the ships or a drop in the cpu useage of energy turrets.

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Originally by: hylleX

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Lets start the whine - i support this idea

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Originally by: King Dave

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Edited by: King Dave on 30/05/2006 17:06:37
basically this is how it is at the moment

EVEYR OTHER RACE IN THE GAME CAN PUT OUT ALL DAMAGE TYPES!!!!

gallente - its drones are one of its main damage types, and it can use all 4 different types, they even hurt alot. So no guns are necesary on the ship atall leaving those 6 - 8 high slots for tanking purposes.

Minmatar - Every1 whines about z0mg minmatar dont hurt enough, there closest range ammo does 3 different types of damage -_-, also for sniping with good skills you can fit a full rack of there largest guns and a full set of damage/tracking enhancser..

Caldari - they can use missiles which even make them track better, not to mention every type of damage that ever existed.

Amarr - Em/ thermal with bonuses to tanking on there main warship.

Yes my geddon can get dps of over 1000 still, but so can the megathron with less skills and a cheaper fitting... Also the megathron can also fit armor repairors with that not just plates.

that sums it up.

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Originally by: madaluap

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DID your monkey ass realise that

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Originally by: Mang0o

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200m sexy ill bid on yours becouse you are so cute

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Originally by: Godar Marak

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Originally by: Crellion

---

My alt has ammar BS 3 and large guns 3. It is scary but with a geddon with 1 heatsinkII Megapulses tech I (not even named) I can even kill 1 Throne (1.5 mill BS) and warp out b4 the other 2 (triple spawn) wtfpown me. The remaining 2 die without warp out. I have been flying Ammar BSs for 3 days. I am highly experienced . Its not a Raven but saying that it needs uber skills to break a 800k tank (war general) is pure BS.

---

Rubbish. My main has Amarr bs lv 5 and all gunnery skils lv5 and I can tell you that an angel bs will cut through you before you have time to kill it. And if you try to tank it your setup will give you so crap damage output its just useless.

Whats this 'throne' youre talking about? Doesnt sound like an angel ship to me. Ofcorse I could be wrong

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Originally by: Lucian Alucard

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Apocs are supposed to snipe and geddons are supposed to tank/figt close up so there needs to be either a cpu increase on the ships or a drop in the cpu useage of energy turrets.

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Most tanked damage type is thermal....

---

Originally by: madaluap

---

HAHAHA, HAHAHA @ the megathron can do the same with less skills LOL, Do you have any ******* idea how hard it is to fly a mega? You go into capdeath every engagment with a good pilot, you need ****LOADS of supportskills to get the beast moving, tanking and firing...

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Quote:

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DID your monkey ass realise that geddon has EXACTLY the same dronebay as a megathron and that megathron does mainly KIN/THERM dmg and you do EM/THERM

---

Quote:

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Armageddon:
-7 guns

-more optimal, instahit dmg

-more damageoutput

-extra low

-rof bonus > dmgbonus

-no need for mwd so more cap

-5X beserker 2

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Quote:

---

Megathron
-7 guns

-less optimal

-less dmgoutput

-Extra med, but that gets wasted because it needs to get close

-Nerfed cap because of mwd

-no insta dmg, but first needs to speed the bloody thing up

-Kin/therm is allways tanked (shields, armor whatever allways tanked, while you rip away shield in 4 sec than armor takes 6 sec and megathron takes 5 for shield and 5 for armor end up with?.

-dmgbonus

-ITS ******* TIER 2 OK? yes we can put some plates on our megathron while you cant on your armageddon..

-5X beserker 2

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Quote:

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ok lets calculate the tanking ability:

shields 40% EM 60% therm 70% kin 80% explosive

I wonder if the armageddon with its great optimal and supernice dronebay would win?

ONOES its all about ze armor, face it AMMAR does the most dmg on shields thats just the way it is period.

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Freaking nubtards on this forum these days. It's a Angel. Ever bother to check what they're resistant against? AH......... well there you go.

---

Quote:

---

Ofcorse I could be wrong

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Quote:

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Name: Angel Throne
Armor Em Damage Resonance 77%
Armor Thermal Damage Resonance 67%
Shield Em Damage Resonance 77%
Shield Thermal Damage Resonance 67%

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Originally by: Godar Marak

---

Originally by: Crellion

---

My alt has ammar BS 3 and large guns 3. It is scary but with a geddon with 1 heatsinkII Megapulses tech I (not even named) I can even kill 1 Throne (1.5 mill BS) and warp out b4 the other 2 (triple spawn) wtfpown me. The remaining 2 die without warp out. I have been flying Ammar BSs for 3 days. I am highly experienced . Its not a Raven but saying that it needs uber skills to break a 800k tank (war general) is pure BS.

---

Rubbish. My main has Amarr bs lv 5 and all gunnery skils lv5 and I can tell you that an angel bs will cut through you before you have time to kill it. And if you try to tank it your setup will give you so crap damage output its just useless.

Whats this 'throne' youre talking about? Doesnt sound like an angel ship to me. Ofcorse I could be wrong

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Originally by: Godar Marak

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Edited by: Godar Marak on 01/06/2006 13:21:23
Edited by: Godar Marak on 01/06/2006 13:15:58

Originally by: Gariuys

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Freaking nubtards on this forum these days. It's a Angel. Ever bother to check what they're resistant against? AH......... well there you go.

---

Allow me to quote myself

Quote:

---

Ofcorse I could be wrong

---

Please flatline.

Your pathetic insults and offensive posting style just make
you look even more of a fool than you allready are.



edit : oh and

Quote:

---

Name: Angel Throne
Armor Em Damage Resonance 77%
Armor Thermal Damage Resonance 67%
Shield Em Damage Resonance 77%
Shield Thermal Damage Resonance 67%

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You were saying?

---

Originally by: Gariuys

---

And when people say that Amarr njeed damage boosts, and that EM damage sucks.... I'm gonna be offensive, cause there is no basis for a meaningfull discussion.

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: Gariuys

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And when people say that Amarr njeed damage boosts, and that EM damage sucks.... I'm gonna be offensive, cause there is no basis for a meaningfull discussion.

---

Thanks for disqualifying yourself from this discussion.

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Originally by: Kaeten

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Originally by: hylleX

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Lets start the whine - i support this idea

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haha hyllex, o du wajnar att jag wajnar ps forumet

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Originally by: twit brent

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/me looks at his tachygeddon that wrecks for 2000+ damage and does 976 dmg/s with just the guns.

Yep definatley too weak.

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Originally by: Epsilon 1

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Seeing as the megathron got their blastors 'boosted', projectiles use no cap (claw 4tw) and the tempy is just a pain in the ars with 800mm II and plates. Could you please boost amarr closerange BS .

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Originally by: Godar Marak

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What, a mimatar who actually speaks the truth?


Something IS rotten in the state of Denmark.

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Originally by: Frools

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Originally by: twit brent

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/me looks at his tachygeddon that wrecks for 2000+ damage and does 976 dmg/s with just the guns.

Yep definatley too weak.

---

how?
according to quickfit with maxed skills 7 tach II with gleam + 2 rcu II + 4 heat sink II does 799
you can 900 with 4 draclira sinks though

anyway, the real problem with amarr damage is at frig and cruiser level, large lasers are pretty damn good imo

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Originally by: Epsilon 1

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Edited by: Epsilon 1 on 29/05/2006 12:13:43
...geddon is alot better for that, but then again you have to fit Dual Heavy pulses in order to have some tank.

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Originally by: Frools

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Originally by: twit brent

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/me looks at his tachygeddon that wrecks for 2000+ damage and does 976 dmg/s with just the guns.

Yep definatley too weak.

---

how?
according to quickfit with maxed skills 7 tach II with gleam + 2 rcu II + 4 heat sink II does 799
you can 900 with 4 draclira sinks though

anyway, the real problem with amarr damage is at frig and cruiser level, large lasers are pretty damn good imo

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Originally by: "Oveur"

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I don't react to threats any better than you do

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Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK

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Originally by: Epsilon 1

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Edited by: Epsilon 1 on 29/05/2006 12:13:43
...geddon is alot better for that, but then again you have to fit Dual Heavy pulses in order to have some tank.

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Uhm... first off... why should it be able to fit a short range gank setup AND a tank?

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Originally by: twit brent

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on the low slots i am using 2 DB RCU, 3 DB heatsinks. I also have a 3% to ROF implant and a 3% to L laser damage implant. If you still dont get 976 with quickfit then quickfit is wrong. Oh and my skills arent maxed i dont have large beam spec to 5 yet.

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Originally by: Sniser

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Edited by: Sniser on 17/06/2006 11:18:00

Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK

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Originally by: Epsilon 1

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Edited by: Epsilon 1 on 29/05/2006 12:13:43
...geddon is alot better for that, but then again you have to fit Dual Heavy pulses in order to have some tank.

---

Uhm... first off... why should it be able to fit a short range gank setup AND a tank?

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this one is funny lol, maybe because mega and tempest can do it?

light tank of course, but some tank ^^, geddon cant fit any tank

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Originally by: Nifel

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A geddon can fit a light tank with pulses :|. Stop making **** up pls :<.

A geddon with maxed fitting skills and 7 megapulses will have 3300 pg left and 284.25 cpu left. More than enough to fit a 'light' tank.

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Originally by: Epsilon 1

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HEAT Sinks are called that way for a reason

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Originally by: McCool

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Originally by: Nifel

---

A geddon can fit a light tank with pulses :|. Stop making **** up pls :<.

A geddon with maxed fitting skills and 7 megapulses will have 3300 pg left and 284.25 cpu left. More than enough to fit a 'light' tank.

---

a light passiv armor tank that is. there just no way to fit cap booster and some kind of armor rep on it.

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Originally by: Sniser

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Originally by: McCool

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Originally by: Nifel

---

A geddon can fit a light tank with pulses :|. Stop making **** up pls :<.

A geddon with maxed fitting skills and 7 megapulses will have 3300 pg left and 284.25 cpu left. More than enough to fit a 'light' tank.

---

a light passiv armor tank that is. there just no way to fit cap booster and some kind of armor rep on it.

---

yep when i say light tank i want say a cap booster + 1 rep ( im not telling even 2 large rep just 1)

light tank would be:
1 heavy cap booster and

2 or 3 eanm t2 + 2 Large reps or
1 or 2 eanm t2 + dmg control + 2 Large reps or
the same but instead 2 large rep... 1 rep + 1600 mm plate

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Originally by: Angelic Resolution

---

TBH, it's easily seen why Amarr do EM as main. Lasers are by their nature electricity, the burning part just comes because they fire so much electricity. Explosive crystals, could be cool but in the grand scheme of things if we did get that then Gallente would want EM and minnie would want their peice of pie aswell.

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Originally by: Rockbox

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LASER

Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation

The Explosive damage everyone is talking about would in real life be caused by rapid expansion inside the target object causing it to expload.

---

Originally by: McCool

---

Originally by: Nifel

---

A geddon can fit a light tank with pulses :|. Stop making **** up pls :<.

A geddon with maxed fitting skills and 7 megapulses will have 3300 pg left and 284.25 cpu left. More than enough to fit a 'light' tank.

---

a light passiv armor tank that is. there just no way to fit cap booster and some kind of armor rep on it.

---

Originally by: "Oveur"

---

I don't react to threats any better than you do

---

Originally by: Ather Ialeas

---

I support your idea.

I also want to bring up the "Waah, we want explosive T2 crystals!" issue to this thread...since that's what we want!

---

Originally by: Nifel

---

Edited by: Nifel on 17/06/2006 14:44:42

Originally by: Sniser

---

Originally by: McCool

---

Originally by: Nifel

---

A geddon can fit a light tank with pulses :|. Stop making **** up pls :<.

A geddon with maxed fitting skills and 7 megapulses will have 3300 pg left and 284.25 cpu left. More than enough to fit a 'light' tank.

---

a light passiv armor tank that is. there just no way to fit cap booster and some kind of armor rep on it.

---

yep when i say light tank i want say a cap booster + 1 rep ( im not telling even 2 large rep just 1)

light tank would be:
1 heavy cap booster and

2 or 3 eanm t2 + 2 Large reps or
1 or 2 eanm t2 + dmg control + 2 Large reps or
the same but instead 2 large rep... 1 rep + 1600 mm plate

---

Sigh...

1x geddon
20625.0 pg after skills
562.5 cpu after skills

fittings:
high:
7x mega pulse laser II

med:
1x 100mn mwd t2
1x web/scram
1x heavy electrochemical capicator booster I

lows:

2x large armor repairer II
3x energized apadative nano membrane II
2x reactor control unit II
1x co-processor II

after fitting and with weapons upgrade lvl5 and advanced weapons upgrade lvl5:

pg: 20625 * 1.15 * 1.15 - 2750 * 7 * 0.9 (7x mp2) - 2300*2 (2x lar2) - 1375 (mwd2) - 1750 (heavy cap booster)

leaves 2226.56 pg after fittings. note that the fittings that require 1 pg is not included in this

cpu: 562.5 * 1.1 - 53*7*0.75 (7x mp2) - 30*3 (3x eanm2) - 55*2 (2x lar2) - 15*2 (2x rcu2) - 40 (heavy cap booster)
leaves 70.5 cpu after fittings. note that the 3rd mid is not included here but enough cpu is left to go with scrambler/web or even ew of your choice


You also have the 5x heavies that can be explosive or web drones or whatever you fancy.

A mega pilot with one less slot will have to give up 1x eanm2 to fit an equalivent setup with his heaviest hitting guns (neutrons2).

A tempest pilot will have 1 lowslot left over for a dmg mod and ample enough cpu left for ewar mods.

In all cases none of the ships have enough cpu/pg left to utilize their utility slots with anything that's a battleship mod (nos for example). And while the tempest pilot seemingly is the one best off he'll be fighting in falloff 100% of the time since being webbed equals death for an acpest. He'll also lack the 2x nos that's so vital to break the tank of enemy ships since his damage is effectively cut in half.

*edit*
And if 2x lar along with hardeners is a light tank I'd love to hear what you consider to be a heavy tank.

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Originally by: Aramendel

---

Originally by: Rockbox

---

LASER

Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation

The Explosive damage everyone is talking about would in real life be caused by rapid expansion inside the target object causing it to expload.

---

Exactly. Angelic was probably confusing electrons with photons. (Nevermind that simply shooting electrons at something won't give you an EM field. And also nevermind that an EM field can fry electronics, but cannot destroy physical objects - have fun trying to melt steel or even warm ice with a magnet.)

It's really totally pointless to try to justify anything with RL physics here. Lasers are right now already the most "unrealistic" weapons in EVE. Not that it matters. It's a game.

---

Originally by: OrangeAfroMan

---

Nifel wins thread, stop whining and learn to play :l

---

Originally by: Godar Marak

---

Geddon with 2xt2 lar?

Ahahahahhaha!

---

Originally by: Aramendel

---

It's really totally pointless to try to justify anything with RL physics here. Lasers are right now already the most "unrealistic" weapons in EVE. Not that it matters. It's a game.

---

Originally by: Godar Marak

---

Originally by: OrangeAfroMan

---

Nifel wins thread, stop whining and learn to play :l

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Geddon with 2xt2 lar?

Ahahahahhaha!

---

Originally by: Frools

---

why are you laughing? its quite possible and its very effective
even better with dhp imo

7x dhp II
1x heavy nos

1x heavy electrochem
1x fleeting web
1x 20km disruptor

1x co-pro II
3x HS II
2x eanmII
2x larII

---

Originally by: Godar Marak

---

Why do you want to web when the geddon with dhp with t2 ammo has optimal of 13km? If you get in web range and get webbed yourself your target can creep withing 9k and you cant hit anything.

---

Originally by: Letifer Deus

---

How exactly are lasers the most unrealistic? As far as I am concerned, lasers are by far the most viable weapon for long range combat. The time it would take for a rail slug or especially a traditional projectile round to reach a target 100+ km away would make them both pretty much useless for hitting moving targets.

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Originally by: Frools

---

why are you laughing? its quite possible and its very effective
even better with dhp imo

7x dhp II
1x heavy nos

1x heavy electrochem
1x fleeting web
1x 20km disruptor

1x co-pro II
3x HS II
2x eanmII
2x larII

---

Originally by: Sniser

---

First you needed use a cpu module, The others dont need it, second other bs can fit better weapons why we have use the lowest? Mega can fit Ion Blaster +gank+tank, tempest can fit 800mm(their best autocannon weapons) + tank + some damage + ecm
and Armageddon need use the lowest weapons also use a cpu module? where is there the balance?

---

Originally by: Frools

---

you cant get ions + heavy nos + dual LARII tank on a mega with damage mods

---

Originally by: Frools

---

if you can get a good ions + dual larII setup on a mega please post it, i'd like to see how its possible

---

Originally by: Letifer Deus

---

Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?

---

Originally by: Sarmaul

---

lease stop with their "tier2 is better than tier1" syndrome. The Phoon is tier1 and out-damages and out-tanks the tempest. The Dominix is tier1 and out-damages the Megathron. The Geddon is tier1 one and out-damages the Apoc.

Each race has 8 combat cruisers: Maller and Omen (Amarr), Caracal and Moa (Caldari), Thorax and Vexor (Gallente), Rupture and Stabber (Minmatar). Each one should be comparable with each other, regardless of how many ranks of Crusier to need to fly them.

---

Originally by: Frools

---

Originally by: Letifer Deus

---

Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?

---

dont see that it does really, tier 2 isnt automatically better than tier 1, if it was why would anyone fly the tier 1's?
they're just different roles

geddon is about damage

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Originally by: Frools

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Originally by: Letifer Deus

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Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?

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dont see that it does really, tier 2 isnt automatically better than tier 1, if it was why would anyone fly the tier 1's?

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Originally by: Letifer Deus

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you're telling me that an armageddon, costing $35 million less than a megathron, should be just as good? No, it shouldn't.

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Originally by: Frools

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well then you better nerf the **** out of the domi then cos it will beat just about any other bs 1v1....

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Originally by: Letifer Deus

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Edited by: Letifer Deus on 19/06/2006 17:05:42

Originally by: Frools

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Originally by: Letifer Deus

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Does the fact that an armageddon is tier 1 and costs ~$35 mil less than a megathron or tempest not have any sort of relevence?

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dont see that it does really, tier 2 isnt automatically better than tier 1, if it was why would anyone fly the tier 1's?

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you're telling me that an armageddon, costing $35 million less than a megathron, should be just as good as a megathron at everything? No, it shouldn't. So an arma can't gank and tank as well as a megathron, buhu, it's 35 mil less.

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Originally by: Frools

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Originally by: Sniser

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First you needed use a cpu module, The others dont need it, second other bs can fit better weapons why we have use the lowest? Mega can fit Ion Blaster +gank+tank, tempest can fit 800mm(their best autocannon weapons) + tank + some damage + ecm
and Armageddon need use the lowest weapons also use a cpu module? where is there the balance?

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you cant get ions + heavy nos + dual LARII tank on a mega with damage mods
you can do electrons + heavy nos + dual larII but you still need a co-proII and you only have 2 mag stabs compared to geddons 3 sinks
fitting difficulty seems pretty comparable from playing with quickfit (cant fly a mega)
if you can get a good ions + dual larII setup on a mega please post it, i'd like to see how its possible
tempest doesnt seem to be able to fit dual larII tank + damage mods either, suppose thats made up for with mids for ew though

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Originally by: Epsilon 1

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projectiles use no cap (claw 4tw)

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Originally by: Swethren

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Originally by: Nyxus

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*LOTSOFSNIP*

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Also go back and look what I said. I said Amarr are good at the medium to medium long range warfare. At the super close range, gallente beat them and the super far range, gallente beat them. Caldari are constant over what ever range, which is pretty good. I really don't know enough about minmatar to comment on them, I'll leave that to Sarmual (sp? ).

You can't be good at everything, cause then we have to make the other races just as good at everything and that would be really boring.

Swethren

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I hate to repeat what has been said 348509348509345 times now but medium 30-70km is the least used range in the game and heres why... 1) you cant scramble at 30km-70km 2) at 30-70km longrange setup ships hit fine and veryhard with closerange ammo against same sized targets and slow moving smaller targets. 3) A under 50k close range ships can close the gap before you kill them. 4) most small engagements are at the 20-0km range mainly due to the uncloak from jumping is 20km and the default warp in is 15. 5) Large scale battles happen mostly at 100Km + which is a full 40km outside of the megapulse's range.
Now if you changed scortch to 24/20, boost radio and give pulse lasers their old range then they could be the masters of both med-close and med-long this would make them still far from being in your face weapons but not reserve them to unused ranges.

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Originally by: Garia666

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i was born amarr...

What the hell was my mom thinking...

* nods his head *

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This may not be work safe -Capsicum

Originally by: Sonorra Baki

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Originally by: Garia666

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i was born amarr...

What the hell was my mom thinking...

* nods his head *

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I was born Caldari and chose to specialize in amarr myself... thats a whole lot worse!!!!

/me slams head against wall DOH!

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