Meh. They were a little too good as it is. I personally don't see an issue; this means that if you want their benefit, you have to stay exposed, and cannot cloak.

If this takes place, the net effect, as pointed out, is that far fewer people will use them. I got along just fine before they were introduced. I'll be fine afterward.

This change just make people who does scanning at pvp,huge battles life harder. I do combat scanning at huge battles and must say that if you implement this to tq its gonna ruin all my fits and whole concept of it.

Does that mean you have to adapt?

What changes at the concept?

The concept is to kill offgrid boosters and my fit contains one rangefinding array II. And you know when local is 400+ its a bit hard to control your probes but now you forced to control your ass too.

Ah ok. But that doe not sound like such a big problem.

Scan offgrid / off-dscan? + Stay allignet.
Use the new and cheaper virture set.
Use d-scan before you start scanning to reduce your scanning time.

No, just no.

If your doing this uncloaked your doing it wrong and most of the time your target will get away.

Yes, just yes.



Don't do it uncloaked. Time to put on your big boy pants, dig out that virtue clone, and do it like it used to be done before CCP put probing into easy mode.

I'm tired of being diplomatic... If this change is intended, the developer who implemented it is a ******* idiot.

Jesus, the whining....

This is a good change. Scanning is too easy as it is a s at some point CCP needs to support the whole point of eve, which is conflict. It they don't make changes like this, which is really small, they risk the game becoming more and more watered down where everything is safe.

There are many ways to scan without cloaking. If you can't set up a safe and check scan for combat probes while scanning sites then you have no business scanning in the first place. Hell, I have warp stabs on my Helios anyway and most times I scan from the pos bubble anyway. This is not a big deal considering you can still scan cloaked if you need to anyway, just without mod bonus.

Since Odyssey People complained about that scanning down Targets is now way to easy. This is a good move in the right direction without kompletly roll back the changes like the lootspew.
It was possible pre Odyssey, so it will probably still be possible without this mods which made it way to easy.

Since Odyssey People complained about that scanning down Targets is now way to easy. This is a good move in the right direction without kompletly roll back the changes like the lootspew.
It was possible pre Odyssey, so it will probably still be possible without this mods which made it way to easy.

This may be. But until CCP comes out and says something like this, we from Wormhole space are going to assume that we have been overlooked yet again with a blanket change made for the benefit of Hisec/Nullsec that adversely affects the gameplay we have adapted to as a result of the addition of these modules to the game.

Can we and will we adapt if this change goes through? Absolutely. Should we try to confirm that CCP intended to nerf W-space scanning while similarly buffing High/Null scanning? Absolutely. Because if they didn't intend the nerf, we should let them know about it so they can re-think their approach.

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

Surely there must be a way, to do this without changing the effects this has on the PVE aspect of exploration and scanning?

- Maybe only have the modules needed to be activated for combat probes?

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

They are completely unnecessary for PVE scanning.

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning.

CCP reacts to oceans of tears about AFK cloaking by nerfing WH pvp. gf o7

What about making Combat probes ignore these modules? That could accomplish your stated goal everywhere instead of just in wormhole space where cloaking is a must, while simultaneously not nerfing the Core probes.

Could be possible, as we're delaying making any changes here until Crius, we can take a look. We'll keep you updated once we dug into it a bit more.

What about making Combat probes ignore these modules? That could accomplish your stated goal everywhere instead of just in wormhole space where cloaking is a must, while simultaneously not nerfing the Core probes.

Edit 1: Ships could have a separate Core probe strength and Combat probe strength, if the modules directly affect the effective scan strength of the ship hulls.

Edit 2: This could lead into additional ship bonuses: scanning bonus for PvE exploration vs scanning bonus for PvP hunting.

I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning.

Could be possible, as we're delaying making any changes here until Crius, we can take a look. We'll keep you updated once we dug into it a bit more.

I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning.

One thing to note, this change was requested by quite a few wormhole players immediately after Odyssey and was one of the common requests from the wormhole members of CSM 8. They correctly argued that having these modules passive removes any choice or risk around them and skews the balance between midslots and lowslots for probing ships.

I've had this item on my list of CSM requested wormhole improvements for a while.

Removing there effect from only combat probes does not address the risk vs reward ratio that is brought by them for PVE scanning though. Making them active does.

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

You know, for a group that prides itself on living in a place without easy risk free intel there sure seem to be a lot of people upset that maximizing their intel potential will mean putting themselves at risk.

You know, for a group that prides itself on living in a place without easy risk free intel there sure seem to be a lot of people upset that maximizing their intel potential will mean putting themselves at risk.

You know, for a group that prides itself on living in a place without easy risk free intel there sure seem to be a lot of people upset that maximizing their intel potential will mean putting themselves at risk.

All of this completely ignores the fact that it utter screws over usage of these modules for w-space scanning.

Wormhole residents spend a sizeable part of their gametime scanning down new sigs and a key part of scouting new chains is doing so cloaked. Scanning at the POS or at a safespot isn't an option for us.

Reguardless of whatever meta you "think" this change will implement the only reality of it will be that people will just stop using the modules. Which at that point just freaking delete them.

I scan wormholes that I don't have a pos in all the time so it isn't just something 'I think'. Make a safe, watch dscan...or I dunno, scan cloaked and it'll take a bit longer. This isn't a big deal unless you want to play the game on easy mode.

Stop crying.

Fixed for you.

-Even without these changes no one fits them on a cloaky prot anyways. So who will be hit by this change the most? Hint: It is not the guys with all probing skills at 5.

You know, for a group that prides itself on living in a place without easy risk free intel there sure seem to be a lot of people upset that maximizing their intel potential will mean putting themselves at risk.

You know, for a group that prides itself on living in a place without easy risk free intel there sure seem to be a lot of people upset that maximizing their intel potential will mean putting themselves at risk.

What risk does the guy take that notices the probes on d-scan? Here is your effortless and risk free intel.

If he does not pay attention to sigs or has no scouts on em he deserves to die.

You know, you're right, I think we SHOULD disable dscan in wspace as well. And combat probes. If you want to find a ship you should do it the hard way, scan down every anomaly and warp in to put eyes on it directly. Anything short of direct eyes sounds too easy.

So you're saying that right now it goes like this:

"Guys there are 8 probes on scan within 4 AU, I think we're getting probed"

But if you change it, it'll turn into:
"Guys there are 8 probes on scan AND A BUZZARD HOLY **** STOP EVERYTHING GAME OVER MAN"

?

You know, you're right, I think we SHOULD disable dscan in wspace as well. And combat probes. If you want to find a ship you should do it the hard way, scan down every anomaly and warp in to put eyes on it directly. Anything short of direct eyes sounds too easy.

Another quality contribution on topic, thank you.

Your kind

Glad to help! Your kind is so eager to comment on discussions of local, sov mechanics, and power projection, I'm just returning the favor. It's really great that we, as players from such different backgrounds, can meaningfully contribute this way.

Wow, glad to see such an enlightened individual representing the Eve player base. I think those 2 words pretty much sum up all "our kind" needs to know about you and your views.

10/10

I'll bite.

You're in W-space, no local, scanning your way around. How often do you hit dscan to watch for probes while you're scanning? Once every 10 seconds or so if you're lucky? You know what dscan is, right? Anyway, it takes more than a few seconds to manipulate your probes each time, so you're certainly not hitting dscan at every possible cycle.

Now tell me how quickly someone can combat scan you and recall probes. Hint: it's a lot less time now than it used to be with instantly-recalling probes. Uncloaked in in a "safe" spot does not make you safe when you are distracted, it makes you dead. Active scanning modules won't be used in W-space by anyone who has lived there for any length of time. The noobs that jump in using these modules aren't worth the ammo used to shoot them (though we will do that, of course).

The net result is things just slow back down to the previous pace. In Wormhole space. Enjoy your increased bonuses from active modules in your big blue donut out in Null, if they continue with making them active modules.

I get that you Nullsec types want to put the squeeze on W-space hunters; maybe we ARE too efficient. Just keep the propagandizing off the Test Server forums, k? It's especially distasteful for a CSM to stoop to that level here. Leave it on the regular forums, if you have to spew any of it in the first place.

Those guys are babies. They scan a bit slower now, that's it. People on a short tour of W-Space can even breath easier now, since they don't have to waste time to refit between combat and scan fits all the time.

True, this lands on new players, but post-Odyssey scanning is much easier for new players. They'll still be useful scanning down sites and holes, where results aren't quite so time-critical. They'll be worse at combat scanning, but that's enough of an art that they'll be worse anyway.

I quite clearly remember pre-Odyssey scanning as a not-very skilled scanner. I do not wish to return to that, as a QoL issue.

Glad to help! Your kind is so eager to comment on discussions of local, sov mechanics, and power projection, I'm just returning the favor. It's really great that we, as players from such different backgrounds, can meaningfully contribute this way.

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

One thing to note, this change was requested by quite a few wormhole players immediately after Odyssey and was one of the common requests from the wormhole members of CSM 8. They correctly argued that having these modules passive removes any choice or risk around them and skews the balance between midslots and lowslots for probing ships.

I've had this item on my list of CSM requested wormhole improvements for a while.

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

One thing to note, this change was requested by quite a few wormhole players immediately after Odyssey and was one of the common requests from the wormhole members of CSM 8. They correctly argued that having these modules passive removes any choice or risk around them and skews the balance between midslots and lowslots for probing ships.

I've had this item on my list of CSM requested wormhole improvements for a while.

I'll say it again: The current bonus to these modules is infinitesimal, not worth uncloaking for if they're active modules, and the modules themselves aren't strong enough to warrant a nerf of any kind.

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.

One thing to note, this change was requested by quite a few wormhole players immediately after Odyssey and was one of the common requests from the wormhole members of CSM 8. They correctly argued that having these modules passive removes any choice or risk around them and skews the balance between midslots and lowslots for probing ships.

I've had this item on my list of CSM requested wormhole improvements for a while.

This would make total sense if you hadn't nerfed scanning kills to implement these modules but, since you did, the comments about how people managed before these modules existed are pretty much moot.

What skills have been nerved?

For the last few years I had no problem with combat- and chain-scanning in WHs. Maybe I missed something, but can somebody explain to me how scanning is going to be harder than it was a year ago bevore CCP had the ideotic Idea to boost scanning even more with those modules (as the new much more easy to use interface and scanning-system was not enough)?

It won't be a 'problem', however, I fail to see why it should be better for scanning to take longer. As I tried to explain in my last post, the usefulness of such a change is negligible compared to the drawbacks for a big number of probers. It's also not a balanced change as it only really affects wormholers negatively. Also, let me mention again that combat probing was already nerfed once not long ago when CCP introduced the sensor compensation skills

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168820

Removing there effect from only combat probes does not address the risk vs reward ratio that is brought by them for PVE scanning though. Making them active does.

Scanning through the thread (hurr hurr), I've seen a few decent ideas.

- Only requiring the modules to be active for combat probes.
- Adding a new set of active modules, and keeping the passive ones

One I'd like to suggest is giving them similar functionality to what active armor and shield hardeners had before they were tweaked: their usual big bonus to resists when online and activated (55% for T2), and a much smaller passive bonus for when they were online but not activated (5% before skills, iirc).

Currently the scanning modules are set up so that the T2 module provides twice the T1 module's bonus. I'll keep that in these example numbers - bear in mind I am not entirely familiar with the calculations so the numbers I suggest may be too small or too large. As a general rule I am making the "active" bonus about 25% stronger than the current bonus, and reducing (but not removing) the passive bonus to about 50% of current values. This way the T1 active bonus remains larger than the T2 passive bonus, but the passive bonuses still provide a small but tangible benefit.

Scan Acquisition Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Duration Bonus (Passive): 2.50%
Scan Duration Bonus (Active): 6.25%

Scan Acquisition Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Duration Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Duration Bonus (Active): 12.50%


Scan Pinpointing Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Deviation Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Deviation Bonus (Active): 12.50%

Scan Pinpointing Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Deviation Bonus (Passive): 10.00%
Scan Deviation Bonus (Active): 25.00%

Scan Rangefinding Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Strength Bonus (Passive): 2.50%
Scan Strength Bonus (Active): 6.25%

Scan Rangefinding Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Strength Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Strength Bonus (Active): 12.50%


Thoughts?

One I'd like to suggest is giving them similar functionality to what active armor and shield hardeners had before they were tweaked: their usual big bonus to resists when online and activated (55% for T2), and a much smaller passive bonus for when they were online but not activated (5% before skills, iirc).

If you drop combats in Nullsec, you probably control the field and are looking for that pod or ship that got away. Cloaking is unnecessary.

Not exactly.How can i control the 500~ local while im tryin to find ECCM'd t3? Obv i will get bombers fleet on my ass. To scan me down there is no need to fit anything but probe launcher while im uncloaked.

Not a nerf as such. Half of the skill bonus from the three supporting astrometrics skills were moved to astrometrics itself

Still, this change is a Wormhole Quality of Life reduction as currently suggested. As Cosmic pointed out, the warp changes affected combat scanning as well.

No offense intended, but can you restate this? I'm totally not understanding what you've written.

Not exactly.How can i control the 500~ local while im tryin to find ECCM'd t3? Obv i will get bombers fleet on my ass. To scan me down there is no need to fit anything but probe launcher while im uncloaked.

Scanning through the thread (hurr hurr), I've seen a few decent ideas.

- Only requiring the modules to be active for combat probes.
- Adding a new set of active modules, and keeping the passive ones

One I'd like to suggest is giving them similar functionality to what active armor and shield hardeners had before they were tweaked: their usual big bonus to resists when online and activated (55% for T2), and a much smaller passive bonus for when they were online but not activated (5% before skills, iirc).

Currently the scanning modules are set up so that the T2 module provides twice the T1 module's bonus. I'll keep that in these example numbers - bear in mind I am not entirely familiar with the calculations so the numbers I suggest may be too small or too large. As a general rule I am making the "active" bonus about 25% stronger than the current bonus, and reducing (but not removing) the passive bonus to about 50% of current values. This way the T1 active bonus remains larger than the T2 passive bonus, but the passive bonuses still provide a small but tangible benefit.

Scan Acquisition Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Duration Bonus (Passive): 2.50%
Scan Duration Bonus (Active): 6.25%

Scan Acquisition Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Duration Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Duration Bonus (Active): 12.50%


Scan Pinpointing Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Deviation Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Deviation Bonus (Active): 12.50%

Scan Pinpointing Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Deviation Bonus (Passive): 10.00%
Scan Deviation Bonus (Active): 25.00%

Scan Rangefinding Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Strength Bonus (Passive): 2.50%
Scan Strength Bonus (Active): 6.25%

Scan Rangefinding Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Strength Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Strength Bonus (Active): 12.50%


Thoughts?

Scanning through the thread (hurr hurr), I've seen a few decent ideas.

- Only requiring the modules to be active for combat probes.
- Adding a new set of active modules, and keeping the passive ones

One I'd like to suggest is giving them similar functionality to what active armor and shield hardeners had before they were tweaked: their usual big bonus to resists when online and activated (55% for T2), and a much smaller passive bonus for when they were online but not activated (5% before skills, iirc).

Currently the scanning modules are set up so that the T2 module provides twice the T1 module's bonus. I'll keep that in these example numbers - bear in mind I am not entirely familiar with the calculations so the numbers I suggest may be too small or too large. As a general rule I am making the "active" bonus about 25% stronger than the current bonus, and reducing (but not removing) the passive bonus to about 50% of current values. This way the T1 active bonus remains larger than the T2 passive bonus, but the passive bonuses still provide a small but tangible benefit.

Scan Acquisition Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Duration Bonus (Passive): 2.50%
Scan Duration Bonus (Active): 6.25%

Scan Acquisition Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Duration Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Duration Bonus (Active): 12.50%


Scan Pinpointing Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Deviation Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Deviation Bonus (Active): 12.50%

Scan Pinpointing Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Deviation Bonus (Passive): 10.00%
Scan Deviation Bonus (Active): 25.00%

Scan Rangefinding Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Strength Bonus (Passive): 2.50%
Scan Strength Bonus (Active): 6.25%

Scan Rangefinding Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Strength Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Strength Bonus (Active): 12.50%


Thoughts?

Scanning through the thread (hurr hurr), I've seen a few decent ideas.

- Only requiring the modules to be active for combat probes.
- Adding a new set of active modules, and keeping the passive ones

One I'd like to suggest is giving them similar functionality to what active armor and shield hardeners had before they were tweaked: their usual big bonus to resists when online and activated (55% for T2), and a much smaller passive bonus for when they were online but not activated (5% before skills, iirc).

Currently the scanning modules are set up so that the T2 module provides twice the T1 module's bonus. I'll keep that in these example numbers - bear in mind I am not entirely familiar with the calculations so the numbers I suggest may be too small or too large. As a general rule I am making the "active" bonus about 25% stronger than the current bonus, and reducing (but not removing) the passive bonus to about 50% of current values. This way the T1 active bonus remains larger than the T2 passive bonus, but the passive bonuses still provide a small but tangible benefit.

Scan Acquisition Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Duration Bonus (Passive): 2.50%
Scan Duration Bonus (Active): 6.25%

Scan Acquisition Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Duration Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Duration Bonus (Active): 12.50%


Scan Pinpointing Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Deviation Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Deviation Bonus (Active): 12.50%

Scan Pinpointing Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Deviation Bonus (Passive): 10.00%
Scan Deviation Bonus (Active): 25.00%

Scan Rangefinding Array I
Activation Cost: 10GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Strength Bonus (Passive): 2.50%
Scan Strength Bonus (Active): 6.25%

Scan Rangefinding Array II
Activation Cost: 12GJ
Activation Time: 12s
Scan Strength Bonus (Passive): 5.00%
Scan Strength Bonus (Active): 12.50%


Thoughts?

No, just no.

This makes them worthless to all of w-space and just about for anyone else.

They have little use in buffing scanning sigs, their primary use is making combat scanning faster/better.

If your doing this uncloaked your doing it wrong and most of the time your target will get away.

This change would unfairly punish new players getting into Exploration.

As a guy who lives in WH's and scan every time i'm on, I support changes to those silly modules.

Scanning was changed a lot in Odyssey, it was made so easy that it was stupid.
I know of people who stopped buying their Virtue implant sets because scanning was now so easy that the implants simply didn't give them enough of an edge

Scanning a signature with Astrometrics 5 and supports at 4, most of the time only takes 2 sweeps when flying a T3 without the modules and without any scanning implants or rigs.

With scanning modules, implants etc. there is simply no edge to training your skills.

In my opinion you shouldn't nerf the modules, you should throw them in the big bad garbage truck and never think about them again.

Don't get me wrong, this change is a terrible way to balance scanning, but I do honestly believe CCP have to make scanning "harder". In all aspects of EVE there needs to be people who are good and bad at that given aspect.. With the current scanning situation, everyone is good, and that sucks imo. Its only fair that the guy in a rigged cov ops with a virtue set would be faster scanning than a Proteus without rigs or implants and the difference between the 2 isn't big enough atm.

New players have allready gotten a HUGE advantage from when I was scanning for the first time by the astrometric changes. So yeah.. Nerf scanning, make it competitive again.

I miss racing my opponents on scanning a system for intel.

Tell that to the newbie, who is jumping into a C1 with 30+ sigs for the first time. He is NOT going to have a good time regardless of scanning skills. There is still a hell lot of improvements to be gained by experience and practice.

But yeah, scanning is now stupidly easy because you don't have to launch your probes one by one and arrange them in a useful formation anymore

As for competitiveness, I see extremely bad probers all the time ...

If that newbie took the new tutorial, he would know exactly how probing works.
He can even use a full flight of probes even with **** skills.

Sure, scanning 30 signatures takes time, but imo that is okay..
Wormholes lets me move a fleet from Amarr to Cobalt Edge in 5 minuts ignoring cynojammers etc., how is that for power projection?

A newbie in a badger with t1 probes should not be able to scan down the entire world, you unlock content as you skill your character and learn the mechanics and that is how it should be imo.

Scanning now is, even without these modules, so much easier than before, yet people still lived in w-space. Making a newbie able to probe down the entire world without training for it is just.. well, bad design tbh. Might aswell remove those skills and make all signatures anomalies if we want easy-noobfriendly mode? Then we would also get rid of that horrible scan UI :)

Dont want to be harsh but yes,i am agree with you.

If that newbie took the new tutorial, he would know exactly how probing works.
He can even use a full flight of probes even with **** skills.

Sure, scanning 30 signatures takes time, but imo that is okay..
Wormholes lets me move a fleet from Amarr to Cobalt Edge in 5 minuts ignoring cynojammers etc., how is that for power projection?

A newbie in a badger with t1 probes should not be able to scan down the entire world, you unlock content as you skill your character and learn the mechanics and that is how it should be imo.

Scanning now is, even without these modules, so much easier than before, yet people still lived in w-space. Making a newbie able to probe down the entire world without training for it is just.. well, bad design tbh. Might aswell remove those skills and make all signatures anomalies if we want easy-noobfriendly mode? Then we would also get rid of that horrible scan UI :)

Im telling you that controlling the local isnt controlling the field.When i decloaked i am vulnerable to shoot.
The guy who will scan me dont need virtue with pricy hull with fit.But i do,i need virtue and pricy fit to scan and hunt down boosters when huge fleets are fighting. The risk is too high with these changes.

If combat scanning is OP, then it is far more elegant - and controllable (i.e. able to reduce unintended consequence) to nerf combat scan probes directly. Add a penalty to combat scanner effectiveness to the CovOps cloak if you must - and you accomplish the same end without nasty side effects. You could even do it as Morwen Lagaan suggests, and have a variable cloaked vs uncloaked bonus - but I encourage you to tackle the source of your concern, which is combat probing, not cloaking, and not core probing.

Except that combat scanning is not considered overpowered as it stands, but only in conjunction with bonuses offered by the scanning modules. If you nerf combat scanning probes themselves, you then force anyone who uses those probes currently to refit to use the scanning modules or suffer a penalty.

Personally, I use combat probes by default, because if I ever find a ship I need to scan, I don't want to waste time (and increase visibility) by needing to reload my probe launcher from cores to combats.

I agree with you as I mentioned in my post. Soniclover specifically stated that was the impetus for this, thus my point on a more direct nerf if that is their goal. I do think that a legit choice then happens which you wouldn't like but is not a Hobson's choice - do I use combat scans with weaker strength or cores with greater strength and a forced swap?

My choices would not be what you suggest. It is not 'do I use combat scans with weaker strength or cores with greater strength and a forced swap', but 'do I use combat scans with weaker strength or cores with greater strength and a forced swap, as well as needing to fit scanning modules I don't currently use to get the same effect as now?'

I'm a wormholer without maximum scanning skills (yes, yes, I know, train them to 5... lol) and this change will be a major nerf where I'm concerned.

However, I'd argue that this is a symptom of unprobable t3s being broken, not that the scanning modules should stay passive. It should not be required to have a 2b pod in an untanked frigate to probe down an entire fleet of t3s. I think the fix is that the t3 unprobability should be nerfed (probably cap the amount of unprobability you can have at a lower level than now, so you require less to be able to lock onto the most unprobable ships you can get).

New players have allready gotten a HUGE advantage from when I was scanning for the first time by the astrometric changes. So yeah.. Nerf scanning, make it competitive again.

I miss racing my opponents on scanning a system for intel.

One thing to note, this change was requested by quite a few wormhole players immediately after Odyssey and was one of the common requests from the wormhole members of CSM 8. They correctly argued that having these modules passive removes any choice or risk around them and skews the balance between midslots and lowslots for probing ships.

I've had this item on my list of CSM requested wormhole improvements for a while.

I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning.

Did or did not the base strength of scan probes get lowered upon the release these mods? (including the skills that improved them)

Did or did not the base signal strength of sites get lowered upon release of these mods?

Also, you want to make scanning a little less OP....try not giving EVERY SHIP EVER the instant "warp to sites" function the instant they are in every system. Make the new System Scanner a module that one has to fit to their ship, that way, if they want all the instant info, they have to make a choice.

I wonder how you came to that conclusion. Before you brought this up, I have never come across anyone who claimed that combat probing was to easy now.

Then you haven't been listening.

Bomber probing and on grid fleet probing is obscenely simple, and this change doesn't do a damn thing to help sort out that mess, probing needs a lot more violent nerfing applied to it.

It may shock you, but some PVPers scan down sites instead of the ships inside. If you see, for example, wrecks or even a player ship itself on d-scan, you can just move the sliders a bit to look where the ship probably sits and then... you scan down the site the player is most likely in. Then you visit him.

So most PVPers could just evade this issue with special snowflake fits using core probes instead of combat probes. So the modules would still be too powerful in the eyes of CCP.

It may shock you, but some PVPers scan down sites instead of the ships inside. If you see, for example, wrecks or even a player ship itself on d-scan, you can just move the sliders a bit to look where the ship probably sits and then... you scan down the site the player is most likely in. Then you visit him.

So most PVPers could just evade this issue with special snowflake fits using core probes instead of combat probes. So the modules would still be too powerful in the eyes of CCP.

Then you haven't been listening.

Bomber probing and on grid fleet probing is obscenely simple, and this change doesn't do a damn thing to help sort out that mess, probing needs a lot more violent nerfing applied to it.