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Rells
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:34:00 -
[1]
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
◄ PvP University: Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? |
keepiru
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:35:00 -
[2]
i like cake. gimme some.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Harper04
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:38:00 -
[3]
Vaga's speed is one of the few things going for it, so I'm not gonna complain. Damage-wise it's not really that great, and it's tank is only really effective using shields (no mwd/webby/scram combo then), or against amarr.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:38:00 -
[4]
* hugs BPO. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Morreia
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:40:00 -
[5]
Lol toss it my direction and I'll happily stick 2 webs on it so you can munch at will.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:40:00 -
[6]
a ceptor with the same stuff would go faster than 6km/s
From Dusk till Dawn |
Bazman
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:40:00 -
[7]
Vaga does immense damage. Not immense deimos like but definately one of the heavy hitters of the HAC's.
Its not the 6km/s Vaga's you should worry about, its the ones with 4 Warp Core stabs
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Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:42:00 -
[8]
It's got weak tank, damage ( relatively anyway ), cap and just about anything else too make up for it's speed. It sure is fast though.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
vaga = hit and run ship, yeah guess they are meant to be fast,
infact im pretty sure the fleet stabber is a bit faster than a vagabond too and thats only a t1 cruiser with the same slot layout
---------------------------------------------
Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques |
Harper04
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bazman
Vaga does immense damage. Not immense deimos like but definately one of the heavy hitters of the HAC's.
Its not the 6km/s Vaga's you should worry about, its the ones with 4 Warp Core stabs
I fly deimos's...different view on what alot of damage is  . I can't run away though if things get bad...
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:46:00 -
[11]
A Vaga with Tech2 MWD and full skills, no implants etc, does about 3km/sec. To do 6km/sec he has either a Snake set or a load of Nanos - an Interceptor with both will go faster.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:48:00 -
[12]
We'll just find another way to go fast.
I've pretty much specialized in making bigger ships go fast my whole eve career. Its fun. And it makes carebears cry when their 40 bs's can't catch your one vaga. 
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:48:00 -
[13]
A snake implanted, faction'd up Vaga (which is what you need to get 6km/s) is faster than a basic fitted inty? Yep.
Given the same implants, the same skills, the same (equivalent) fittings, and such, inties will outrun Vagabonds any day of the week.
For the record, with average navigation skills, a low end faction MWD, and no implants, Vagas still do sub-3k m/s. Theyre not pwnmobiles unless you really invest cash and time into them. Much like everything else in this game.
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06
Today's forum noob level : Low.
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Fredbob
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
A Vaga with Tech2 MWD and full skills, no implants etc, does about 3km/sec. To do 6km/sec he has either a Snake set or a load of Nanos - an Interceptor with both will go faster.
Thats the top and bottom of it..
A Impel full of nanos and a MWD goes extremely fast compared to a frig, does that make it overpowered? No :), same goes for a Vaga pilot putting all his slots/skills/implants into speed to take advantage of it's strengths.
If your inty is slower and you really want to tackle the world's most efficient anti-frig ship, then you'll have to do more than fit a MWD II and fly at him ^^
___________
~Fredbob~
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2006.06.02 14:01:00 -
[15]
To go faster than 6km/s you need stuff like snake implants. Now if the interceptor pilot had those to he would go even faster. Without snake even with a domi mwd and 5 nanofibers you are going to have a hard time pushing it above 5km/s and if you don't fill up lows with nanos you are only going to go around 3km/s.
It's not the ship that's so fast it's the setup combination.
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2006.06.02 14:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: keepiru
i like cake. gimme some.
Do you think biscuits are faster than cake, or would you be substatially surprised to see that happen?? 
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keepiru
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Posted - 2006.06.02 14:04:00 -
[17]
i think i pay for my subscription and ccp should give me everything for free because im so uber ;p
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Xantina
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Posted - 2006.06.02 14:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
Out of curiosity - have you been roaming around Caer Benowyc lately ? Just wondering ^^
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Zippy Pinno
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:20:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Zippy Pinno on 02/06/2006 15:20:45
Vagas take some time to get up to full speed - even if the Vaga top speed is higher than the inty, the inty can catch it during acceleration.
Catching the Vaga isn`t the problem - surviving for more than 3 seconds is.
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bazman
Vaga does immense damage. Not immense deimos like but definately one of the heavy hitters of the HAC's.
Its not the 6km/s Vaga's you should worry about, its the ones with 4 Warp Core stabs
9/10 out there then
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xantina
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
Out of curiosity - have you been roaming around Caer Benowyc lately ? Just wondering ^^
all albs must die  Glory for Hibernia!
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:27:00 -
[22]
Rells, as many have pointed out, its not the vagabond that goes 6 km/s by default. Its base speed is 242, and with mwd and nanos + implants it can outrun a interceptor. Cost of that is very high though.
Its speed is the primary reason I want one by the way. If i wanted a slow hac, i would go for the Cerb.
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:28:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 02/06/2006 15:28:38
Originally by: Rells
I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck.
Domi with Dual web and Nosf? 6000*0.1=600*0.1=60 Ms + 6 heavy nosf draining its cap. Easy kill tbh. 
As for speed, with the right gear ceptors can get up to 13km/s...
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
PriceCheckMax
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 02/06/2006 15:28:38
Originally by: Rells
I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck.
Domi with Dual web and Nosf? 6000*0.1=600*0.1=60 Ms + 6 heavy nosf draining its cap. Easy kill tbh.
As for speed, with the right gear ceptors can get up to 13km/s...
How do you exactly lock a vagabond fast enough?
How do you exactly have at least +3 scrambling points to keep him from warping?
How do you exactly get the vaga into web range???
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:42:00 -
[25]
Webbers take a 0 off the targets speed. Going at 100? Webbed to 10. Going at 3000? Webbed to 300. They stack nicely.
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:46:00 -
[26]
To be quite honest Interceptors can outrun it, a pilot fitted for taking out fast ships will catch a vagabond or simply render it useless. The Vagabond is a unique HAC in that it doesn't require heavy firepower to take down, but instead other tactics.
My Guides (Recomended Reading) |
Raider Zero
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:50:00 -
[27]
Some RCU's and a T2 BS MWD make it really fast. I don't know why you'd do that, but it would work. Outrun that!
BTW, any ship that costs 10 times as much as any other is allowed to have an advantage, even in the cheap ship's best role.
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Krogort
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Posted - 2006.06.02 16:49:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Krogort on 02/06/2006 16:49:33
Originally by: Raider Zero
BTW, any ship that costs 10 times as much as any other is allowed to have an advantage, even in the cheap ship's best role.
So a dread (with cost 80 time an inty) should be a better tackler ? and also be faster ?
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Waragha
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:00:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Waragha on 02/06/2006 16:59:51
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
And then you look in his sig, he's running a pvp university
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:06:00 -
[30]
Nothing is unbalanced about the vagabond.
You can buy the same implants/hardwiring/modules to make your ship go as fast. Since when is something overpowered when someone just has money to put in his ship to make it beat the whiners in raptors that don't even break 4km/s..
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:07:00 -
[31]
To be honest, the current style of MWD + 3-4 stabs on Vagabond is annoying beyond belief. Catching them requires 5 pts of scramble in the worst case, *and* a double web, *and* firepower. So in general, you don't catch them. Considering that, their firepower is considerable.
I wouldn't say they are overpowered. But they are on the high end of the pvp power scale.
I hope to introduce one of these stabmonkeys to an Arazu + Rapier duo one of these days.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:28:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
He can't sustain it (unless he's got no damage mods OR WCS), and he'll be turning MUCH slower than you
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Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:31:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
To be honest, the current style of MWD + 3-4 stabs on Vagabond is annoying beyond belief. Catching them requires 5 pts of scramble in the worst case, *and* a double web, *and* firepower. So in general, you don't catch them. Considering that, their firepower is considerable.
I wouldn't say they are overpowered. But they are on the high end of the pvp power scale.
I hope to introduce one of these stabmonkeys to an Arazu + Rapier duo one of these days.
how much dps does a 3 or 4 stab vaga do exactly
Originally by: Tamora
its not the skills that make the eve
player... its the smack that back him up
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xenodia
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:33:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
After seeing this post and your sig, I sincerely hope that you arent charging anyone for your "PvP University", as you still have a lot to learn yourself. That would be like 2 retards with a potatoe gun trying to instruct people in guerilla warfare tactics.
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:40:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 02/06/2006 17:41:46
Originally by: Spartan239
how much dps does a 3 or 4 stab vaga do exactly
Quite a lot, actually, especially with t2 ACs and good skills. Compared to the fact that it can run whenever it likes and unlike an inty won't go pop from the first bit of incoming damage. Oh, and the guns need no cap to work, and it will be running a med nosfe of its own.
We've fought quite a bit against ships like this lately, and they are damn near impossible to kill unless they make a mistake, and their damage output is easily good enough to take out many ships. And you need *lots* of scramble and web to kill them.
Again, I'm not saying they are overpowered. But they *are* damn powerful, especially as hit and run ships.
There's a reason for the fact that "stababond" is already a firmly established ship type.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:53:00 -
[36]
....and I remember when the first vagabonds went into circulation.
people crying "OMG TEH HOLES IN ZE ARMOR MAKE IT SUCKY FOR ARMORTANKING!" or "OMG NOT ENOUGH GRID TO FIT T2 720'S SO I DOWNGRADED TO T2 650'S!"
....ah if the people from those days could see the vagabonds now
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Grimpak
....and I remember when the first vagabonds went into circulation.
people crying "OMG TEH HOLES IN ZE ARMOR MAKE IT SUCKY FOR ARMORTANKING!" or "OMG NOT ENOUGH GRID TO FIT T2 720'S SO I DOWNGRADED TO T2 650'S!"
....ah if the people from those days could see the vagabonds now
it was a fun time the holes still suck on any t2 armour tanking minnie ship tho
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:07:00 -
[38]
CCP have given you the tools to **** with Vagabonds - they're called webber drones, Huginns and Rapiers.
Originally by: General Apocalypse
the game is very well balanced
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:10:00 -
[39]
vagabonds... mmm yum
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Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums. |
zoturi
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:31:00 -
[40]
Well, a vaga with out nanofibers cant even go 3km/s. With a local nano its 3,2km/s.
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Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:35:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Outa Rileau on 02/06/2006 18:35:52
Linkage
ceptor with same stuff goes waaaaaaay faster. But the vaga still need's a nerf . Refer to my sig if you have any objections...
Originally by: Raem Civrie
Minmatar comes from the icelandic term "minni mßttar", which means underdog (or in the context of EVE, "lesser people").
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Raider Zero
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Krogort
Edited by: Krogort on 02/06/2006 16:49:33
Originally by: Raider Zero
BTW, any ship that costs 10 times as much as any other is allowed to have an advantage, even in the cheap ship's best role.
So a dread (with cost 80 time an inty) should be a better tackler ? and also be faster ?
I didn't say always. I just said quit *****ing. I never said if a ship costs more it should always be better at everything. My quote was true when I wrote it and remains so.
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Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:44:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Outa Rileau
Edited by: Outa Rileau on 02/06/2006 18:35:52
Linkage
ceptor with same stuff goes waaaaaaay faster. But the vaga still need's a nerf. Refer to my sig if you have any objections...
hasnt been updated in a while
(in that thread but not as fastest)
and why does that vagabond need a nerf and how are you gonna nerf it
Originally by: Tamora
its not the skills that make the eve
player... its the smack that back him up
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Conwright
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:51:00 -
[44]
Claw with no speed mods and navigation 5: 593.75 m/s
Chribba's Revelation: 780 m/s
OMG!! Nerf the Revelation!! It outruns interceptors!! OMG!!
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Ometoch
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:10:00 -
[45]
OMG OH NOES!!!! this isn't fair! I paid 20 million ISK for me ship and there is something that costs 10 times as much that is BETTER!!!!11 Nerf it!!!! I think everything should be nerfed if I can't be better than it.
You know, it is thinking like that that eventually causes games to suck. Thank the gods that CCP doesn't always listen to every whiner on here. Look, it is a niche ship. Does anyone else remember the first time someone found you could throw a MWD on a industrial? Sure, you can do it, but you gimp the hell out of what the ship was made for. Just like the Vaga. Yeah, it is CAPABLE of going that fast, but you are definately going to take a hit in how much damage you can spit out. Hell, I can get my 'Phoon past 1km/s just with an AB and some nanofibers. speed on minny ships is easy to do. But really people, If I had 5 ISK for everytime I see one of these ACK OVERPOWERED OMGNERFIT! threads....
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:12:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Conwright
Claw with no speed mods and navigation 5: 593.75 m/s
Chribba's Revelation: 780 m/s
OMG!! Nerf the Revelation!! It outruns interceptors!! OMG!!
Originally by: General Apocalypse
the game is very well balanced
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:15:00 -
[47]
What mya said... if a vaga charges your inti, just swerve around, his turning radius will cost him more speed and will also add some distance between you and him.
Ison's notches |
Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:30:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Conwright
Claw with no speed mods and navigation 5: 593.75 m/s
Chribba's Revelation: 780 m/s
OMG!! Nerf the Revelation!! It outruns interceptors!! OMG!!
well that claw doesnt have a snake set and 100mn mwd 
Originally by: Raem Civrie
Minmatar comes from the icelandic term "minni mßttar", which means underdog (or in the context of EVE, "lesser people").
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reller
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:42:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
when you don't like something, complain..that'll solve it right?
Wait a sec...
maybe come up with a fitting to counter the vaga? no thats crazy talk, blobs should win right?
It saddens me that anytime anyone sees something they dont like or can't participate in, they complain about it.
Use the same modules and same skills and you can get any HAC up to 3km/sec, inty's will go 6km/sec...so I don't see your point.
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Krogort
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:48:00 -
[50]
The only thing that need a nerf imo is the stabvaga imho, those things are a pain to catch...and so are almost invulnerable 
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:48:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 02/06/2006 19:50:13
reller:
The major problem is not getting up to vaga speed but holding in it place. If vaga pilot uses stabs you NEED to blob it to prevent it from escaping. And with 4 (5? dont remember how many lows it has) stabs it is almost impossible to stop:
1. intys trying to tackle it die
2. before you have a chance to lock him with cruiser or bigger ships vaga moves outside of web range
You need gally+minnie recons working together to stop one and not 1 lachesis because of vaga lowslots - abt 2 of them + one minnie recon. And this is considered "blobbing" for some reason :?
As interdictors are a cure for mass WCS they still cant stop vagas... because vagas can move outside of the bubble and if webbed - just kill dictor fast.
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:53:00 -
[52]
Like i said somewhere else: vaga+snake set+stabs = immortality (unless the pilot is total idiot)
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:55:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Like i said somewhere else: vaga+snake set+stabs = immortality (unless the pilot is total idiot)
vaga+snake set+stabs = a lot of money lost when i kill you and pod you
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Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums. |
Cohkka
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Posted - 2006.06.02 20:01:00 -
[54]
Vaga is fine. It's the stabs which aren't...
The ship is the most unique in it's abilitys by far. You're just calling for another cookiecutter HAC...
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2006.06.02 21:20:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 02/06/2006 21:26:32
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
You need gally+minnie recons working together to stop one and not 1 lachesis because of vaga lowslots - abt 2 of them + one minnie recon.
Nah, one is enough. 7 medslots = 7 pts of 28-30km scramble, if you really want to get serious. Soon to be 36-40km. And hey, you "only" need 5 mids to hold a stababond, with a huginn/rapier acting as flypaper.
But yeah, you need at least a Lachesis/Arazu and a Huginn/Rapier.
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Palx
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Posted - 2006.06.02 21:21:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
Buy a snake set for your ceptor/fit more nanos on your ceptor too, it will go faster.
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slip66
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Posted - 2006.06.02 22:57:00 -
[57]
You know they nerfed the dual 100ABs on the grounds that the game couldnt keep up with the speeds. Lets see the same with this ship which is 10x worse then a dual 100ab rupture ever was.
We didnt fit stabs and we didnt have any of the resistence or dmg output of the vagabond
Originally by: StOrM ViPeR
Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
Randay
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Posted - 2006.06.03 00:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: slip66
You know they nerfed the dual 100ABs on the grounds that the game couldnt keep up with the speeds. Lets see the same with this ship which is 10x worse then a dual 100ab rupture ever was.
We didnt fit stabs and we didnt have any of the resistence or dmg output of the vagabond
dual mwd/AB rupture, t1, 10 mil.
vagabond, t2, 150 mil.
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Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums. |
OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.06.03 00:43:00 -
[59]
Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 03/06/2006 00:43:58
Originally by: Krogort
Edited by: Krogort on 02/06/2006 16:49:33
Originally by: Raider Zero
BTW, any ship that costs 10 times as much as any other is allowed to have an advantage, even in the cheap ship's best role.
So a dread (with cost 80 time an inty) should be a better tackler ? and also be faster ?
lol did you read his post? Here I'll underline it for you.
Now where exactly did he say that any ship that costs 10 times as much should be specifically a better tackler and be faster?
Gronsak is Tux's angry alt. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.03 00:49:00 -
[60]
Originally by: slip66
You know they nerfed the dual 100ABs on the grounds that the game couldnt keep up with the speeds. Lets see the same with this ship which is 10x worse then a dual 100ab rupture ever was.
We didnt fit stabs and we didnt have any of the resistence or dmg output of the vagabond
The Dual AB Rupture was quicker, base. With only a MWD, you only get 3km/s out a Vaga compared to 7km/s for the Rupture.
The Dual AB Rupture could sustain for a LONG time. The Vagabond quickly runs out of cap.
The Dual AB Rupture had a small sig radius. The Vagabond's sig radius blooms.
Etc.
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Epsillon
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Posted - 2006.06.03 03:33:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Rells
my raptor
I LOLed IRL.
_____________________________________________
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Ehker Gerete
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Posted - 2006.06.03 03:53:00 -
[62]
simply put:
vaga with max skills and no nanos/overdrives: 378.125m/s
crow with max skills and no nanos/overdrives: 531.25m/s
inties will outrun a vaga. simple
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Quote:
eeeuuuiii *hic* seee thhuuuu *hic* eeeehhh ggguuuy *hic* uuuhhhs at ppplllllannn *hic* eeet sssseeeevveeeerrrrnn *hic*
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.06.03 06:08:00 -
[63]
I can outrun a MWDing frigate in my 'phoon.
OMG it's overpowered, nerf teh phoon!
----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Hobblah
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Posted - 2006.06.03 07:22:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Spartan239
how much dps does a 3 or 4 stab vaga do exactly
Using quick fit I got following figures (speed is with 2 nanos and 1 overdrive)
Damage per second on Structure : 392.938
Velocity : 3496.95 m/sec
Fitting was 220mm T2 with EMP, MWD, web, scram, L shield extender, 2 nanos, 1 overdrive, 2 dmg mods.
Replacing speed mods with wcs you still get same damge, replacing damage mods and 1 speed mod with wcs you get still quite high damage and speed.
WIth my cap skills, 80s of constant MWD is possible. More with maxed, less with scrambler running.
-Hobblah
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.03 17:58:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
Two webs will drop you to a crawl and make you a massive target, and inties can break 10km/s.
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Hey You
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:06:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
Two webs will drop you to a crawl and make you a massive target, and inties can break 10km/s.
An inty can break 16km/s.
------------------------------
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Caldessa
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Posted - 2006.06.03 19:14:00 -
[67]
Just have a cerberus with you and the vaga wont come closer than 150km :)
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.06.03 19:17:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Hey You
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Rells
Anyone else find it a little unbalanced that there is a HAC out there that can do 6km/second and outrun an interceptor? I know they are fast but when the HEAVY assault cruiser outran my raptor I was substantially suprised.
Now I know all the Vagabond pilots are going to flame me but sheesh, you put medium tech 2s on a HAC and crank it up to 6km/s and that is almost an "I win button" there. I cant think what could kill it short of 8 webifiers and loads of luck. That cant be balance in my opinion.
Two webs will drop you to a crawl and make you a massive target, and inties can break 10km/s.
An inty can break 16km/s.
actually 18km/s ... aeti with a cold gas arc-jet 1 was going 13km/s dammn nub couldnt use a t2 1mn mwd .
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.03 19:17:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
A Vaga with Tech2 MWD and full skills, no implants etc, does about 3km/sec. To do 6km/sec he has either a Snake set or a load of Nanos - an Interceptor with both will go faster.
thats it, thread over
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Marcus Alkhaar
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Posted - 2006.06.03 19:21:00 -
[70]
so the opinion about the vaga is that it isnt overpowered in any way? even when it can fit:
5x 220mm II (stay at 15-20km)
1x Heavy Launcher II ()
1x 10mn MWD II
1x 20km scram
2x Large shield extender II
2x Gyro II
3x local nano (or 3 stabs + 2 nanos, though I never make PvP fits with stabs)
5x Scout drones, Warriors?
max velocity: 3863 m/s
Danger level: Kills any interceptor under 22km (Barage hurts inties alot because theres nearly no ceptor who fits a hardener)
Shield hp: 7298 (thats with the +3% shield implant)
Signature radius: 165, like a Thorax.
sure it lacks some cap for the MWD but if its in deep trouble:
1. if it got stabs it can just warp out.
2. shoot the tacklers while moving away with 3.8k speed (say its a gate camp and it got nanos fitted)
Conclusion: its really tough for being a ship which can go +3k m/s easily.
I'm not a Vaga pilot, I just took a look at this thread and then the ingame Vagabond info and coupled it with a setup, I liked.
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.06.03 19:25:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
so the opinion about the vaga is that it isnt overpowered in any way? even when it can fit:
5x 220mm II (stay at 15-20km)
1x Heavy Launcher II ()
1x 10mn MWD II
1x 20km scram
2x Large shield extender II
2x Gyro II
3x local nano (or 3 stabs + 2 nanos, though I never make PvP fits with stabs)
5x Scout drones, Warriors?
max velocity: 3863 m/s
Danger level: Kills any interceptor under 22km (Barage hurts inties alot because theres nearly no ceptor who fits a hardener)
Shield hp: 7298 (thats with the +3% shield implant)
Signature radius: 165, like a Thorax.
sure it lacks some cap for the MWD but if its in deep trouble:
1. if it got stabs it can just warp out.
2. shoot the tacklers while moving away with 3.8k speed (say its a gate camp and it got nanos fitted)
Conclusion: its really tough for being a ship which can go +3k m/s easily.
I'm not a Vaga pilot, I just took a look at this thread and then the ingame Vagabond info and coupled it with a setup, I liked.
sig radius is 907.5m when mwd is on.... I think your pretty screwed. Also if you run into anyone like me at a gatecamp your really ******.
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.06.03 19:57:00 -
[72]
Whats really imbalanced is that a vagabond *should* never lose 1 v 1.
You either:
A) Beat them and they warp out with stabs - you technically win, but no ship kill or no loot, not worth the risk imo.
B) Lose
So in a 1 v 1 situations (which there really aren't in EVE) its either lose everything, or gain nothing. Ebil!
That being said, my alt will be able to fly them in 3 months. Don't nerf them.
---
Originally by: Wrangler
...why do you people always have to verbally assault each other over things that doesn't matter anyway?
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Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.06.04 12:09:00 -
[73]
To whoever asked, full stababond damage per second should be about 225 with EMP (*1.25 for Hail, but thats suicidal). Its about 2/3rds of a Tempest in the same setup really (second tier autocannons, no gyros, max skills sans implants).
I'll say though, the Vagabond design concept is mostly fine although I'm not certain why its got a double damage bonus (downgrade to tracking please, kthx). It does however epitomize the problem with current combat, that an endless mass of disabling ships and ewar in shortrange combat make any ship that has to stay around and finish a fight vastly less popular.
Also, Rells is a muppet. But we knew that.
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Kunming
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Posted - 2006.06.04 13:07:00 -
[74]
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
so the opinion about the vaga is that it isnt overpowered in any way? even when it can fit:
5x 220mm II (stay at 15-20km)
1x Heavy Launcher II ()
1x 10mn MWD II
1x 20km scram
2x Large shield extender II
2x Gyro II
3x local nano (or 3 stabs + 2 nanos, though I never make PvP fits with stabs)
5x Scout drones, Warriors?
max velocity: 3863 m/s
Danger level: Kills any interceptor under 22km (Barage hurts inties alot because theres nearly no ceptor who fits a hardener)
Shield hp: 7298 (thats with the +3% shield implant)
Signature radius: 165, like a Thorax.
sure it lacks some cap for the MWD but if its in deep trouble:
1. if it got stabs it can just warp out.
2. shoot the tacklers while moving away with 3.8k speed (say its a gate camp and it got nanos fitted)
Conclusion: its really tough for being a ship which can go +3k m/s easily.
I'm not a Vaga pilot, I just took a look at this thread and then the ingame Vagabond info and coupled it with a setup, I liked.
sig radius is 907.5m when mwd is on.... I think your pretty screwed. Also if you run into anyone like me at a gatecamp your really ******.
Ever seen a deimos sig with MWD on? 907 is pretty neat if u consider u'r going 3km/s.
Vaga needs one hell of a nerf, it has too high survivability (higher than a ceptor, cause of resists) and does HAC/BS lvl dmg.
The low number of minnie population and high price of vagabonds just support this, its pretty close to an I-WIN button atm.
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Rambo Armsdealer
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Posted - 2006.06.04 13:36:00 -
[75]
it's not a real secret that the vaga is overpowered
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 13:41:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Rambo Armsdealer
it's not a real secret that the vaga is overpowered
as opposed to why it is, i take it...
NB.
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Rambo Armsdealer
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Posted - 2006.06.04 13:43:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Rambo Armsdealer
it's not a real secret that the vaga is overpowered
as opposed to why it is, i take it...
NB.
maybe CCP wants every race to have 1 overpowered ship atleast, with gallente being the exception with about 100 overpowered ships
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 13:44:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Rambo Armsdealer
maybe CCP wants every race to have 1 overpowered ship atleast, with gallente being the exception with about 100 overpowered ships
So, why is it overpowered again ?
NB.
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Dimitri Vorski
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Posted - 2006.06.04 13:52:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Rambo Armsdealer
maybe CCP wants every race to have 1 overpowered ship atleast, with gallente being the exception with about 100 overpowered ships
So, why is it overpowered again ?
NB.
Cuz you kinda can't kill it unless the pilot is a nub
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 13:58:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 04/06/2006 13:58:16
Originally by: Dimitri Vorski
Cuz you kinda can't kill it unless the pilot is a nub
It takes 1 of the most standard pvp mod (the web) to negate its main advantage, speed. On top of this, webbers stack with increasing returns.
If it's the stababond you are talking about, why nerf the ship and not the mod?
NB.
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Dimitri Vorski
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:00:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 04/06/2006 13:58:16
Originally by: Dimitri Vorski
Cuz you kinda can't kill it unless the pilot is a nub
It takes 1 of the most standard pvp mod (the web) to negate its main advantage, speed. On top of this, webbers stack with increasing returns.
If it's the stababond you are talking about, why nerf the ship and not the mod?
NB.
I'm not asking to nerf it i like it the way it is but that's cuz I fly it myself and I do think it's overpowered
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Nemain
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:15:00 -
[82]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Vaga handle far worse than any inty due to much worse agility and mass. Better speed or not, a quick course change when the vaga gets to close and it will over shoot you by a fair bit. If you insist on running in a straight line it's your own fault if it catches you. If it's the other way around, then an inty does have a small window to catch the vaga during acceleration. I will say tho that, the vaga along with the zealot and the deimos to a lesser extent are very much heavy interceptors.
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Rambo Armsdealer
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:16:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Nemain
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Vaga handle far worse than any inty due to much worse agility and mass. Better speed or not, a quick course change when the vaga gets to close and it will over shoot you by a fair bit. If you insist on running in a straight line it's your own fault if it catches you. If it's the other way around, then an inty does have a small window to catch the vaga during acceleration. I will say tho that, the vaga along with the zealot and the deimos to a lesser extent are very much heavy interceptors.
vaga with 3 nano's handles like a bird
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:17:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Rambo Armsdealer
vaga with 3 nano's handles like a bird
Would you please answer my question ?
NB.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:23:00 -
[85]
I'll go out on different limb and point out that Vagabond speed kind of shows perhaps there wouldn't be anything really wrong with letting Deimos to become a bit lighter and more speedy, sort of vaga-like... >>;
(that'll cost your next DB loot, Porro -.o
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Dimitri Vorski
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:29:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Rambo Armsdealer
vaga with 3 nano's handles like a bird
Would you please answer my question ?
NB.
cuz it's an inty with 5k shields doing 400 DPS
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:31:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Rambo Armsdealer
vaga with 3 nano's handles like a bird
Would you please answer my question ?
NB.
I will go out on a limb and say something is up somewhere with this ship, kinda like the domi.
It's not one thing, its the combination of factors that makes it so deadly.
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:34:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 04/06/2006 13:58:16
Originally by: Dimitri Vorski
Cuz you kinda can't kill it unless the pilot is a nub
It takes 1 of the most standard pvp mod (the web) to negate its main advantage, speed. On top of this, webbers stack with increasing returns.
NB.
Yea that works if he's a nub.
A good pilot will never be inside web range.
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Dimitri Vorski
cuz it's an inty with 5k shields doing 400 DPS
I'd like that setup. To make it an inty, you need at least 4km/s. I get that in my taranis no problem, and to get that with my vagabond I need 3 local nanofibers. I still have way worse agility, way worse sig radius, and can't sustain the mwd alone. That's 3 lows and a mid for you. To get it to do 400 dps, you need at least 2 gyro t2 and light drones. Drones aside, you need 3 lows. To get 5k shield, you need more than a large shield extender, but you can't fit pds (not enough lows). If you drop the web, it's going to be fun to deal with frigs webbing you.
I'd hate to see the vagabond nerfed because of how t2 ammo and stabs are broken. Large shield extenders are too easy to fit, and that's about it.
NB.
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:44:00 -
[90]
Originally by: CptEagle
Yea that works if he's a nub.
A good pilot will never be inside web range.
Maybe not in a hypothetical 1 vs 1 in the middle of nowhere, with the fight starting out of web range. But in real fights you are going to have to deal with multiple opponents, and it's really hard to keep outside web range of all the ships. On top of that, if you are out of web range you can't web, so ships just dock or jump to the next system. You'll also need to dodge stations and gates, where most fight happens.
I'm not saying that the vagabond with all its possible setups is fine now, but picturing a ship as overpowered because of specialized or broken fittings just seems meaningless :S
NB.
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Dimitri Vorski
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:47:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Dimitri Vorski
cuz it's an inty with 5k shields doing 400 DPS
I'd like that setup. To make it an inty, you need at least 4km/s. I get that in my taranis no problem, and to get that with my vagabond I need 3 local nanofibers. I still have way worse agility, way worse sig radius, and can't sustain the mwd alone. That's 3 lows and a mid for you. To get it to do 400 dps, you need at least 2 gyro t2 and light drones. Drones aside, you need 3 lows. To get 5k shield, you need more than a large shield extender, but you can't fit pds (not enough lows). If you drop the web, it's going to be fun to deal with frigs webbing you.
I'd hate to see the vagabond nerfed because of how t2 ammo and stabs are broken. Large shield extenders are too easy to fit, and that's about it.
NB.
those were just some numbers i came up with, if you fit 5x 220mm II with med nos (btw since when is barrage broken?) domination 10mn mwd, 20km, gistii a-type small, large t2 extender, 2x gyro II 3x local nano that's pretty close to an inty
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 14:54:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dimitri Vorski
those were just some numbers i came up with, if you fit 5x 220mm II with med nos (btw since when is barrage broken?) domination 10mn mwd, 20km, gistii a-type small, large t2 extender, 2x gyro II 3x local nano that's pretty close to an inty
Ok. And without faction gear? That setup costs 400 millions easily, using top of the line equipment (there is only worse).
NB.
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 15:04:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
It's not one thing, its the combination of factors that makes it so deadly.
It's deadly, but on the other hand it has a very annoying weakness, which is the tradeoff it has to suffer to hold something in place. Tackling gear takes tanking slots, or you have to armor tank which is not even close to effective in comparison, and using a web in a proactive way is a no go as you'll get webbed too.
Yes, vagabond can go fast, it can have a good passive tank, it can tackle well, it can pack stabs... but it can't do it all reasonably well at the same time. I'd still say that the vagabond is fine, but some fittings aren't.
NB.
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Marcus Alkhaar
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Posted - 2006.06.04 16:07:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 04/06/2006 16:07:13
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Dimitri Vorski
those were just some numbers i came up with, if you fit 5x 220mm II with med nos (btw since when is barrage broken?) domination 10mn mwd, 20km, gistii a-type small, large t2 extender, 2x gyro II 3x local nano that's pretty close to an inty
Ok. And without faction gear? That setup costs 400 millions easily, using top of the line equipment (there is only worse).
NB.
at least the 10mn Gist X-type MWD isn't ingame.... imagine that with 3 local nanofibers....
btw, what does a 10mn Domination MWD cost? ? ? 330 mil? (wtb clue)
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 16:11:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 04/06/2006 16:11:55
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
btw, what does a 10mn Domination MWD cost? ? ? 330 mil? (wtb clue)
I'll gladly sell you such a clue.
[Vagabond]
* Vagabond on the market: 200m
* Vagabond out of the producer's factory + opportunity cost of not selling it on the market: 200m
[Faction Stuffs]
* Domination mwd on the market: 150m
* Domination in a loot can + opportunity cost of not selling it on the market: 150m
...
And using price and faction gear to assess balance is silly, unless maybe you want balance between faction gear. Let's use t2 or best named will you...
NB.
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FraXy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 16:15:00 -
[96]
My Armageddon with 8 Local Nanofibers and 100mn Mwd II can go faster then pretty much every cruiser in-game. Is that balanced?
NERF THE BUMPAGEDDON!!!
This is my lazy attempt to make
an uber-signature, please go away!
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2006.06.04 18:40:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Hoshi on 04/06/2006 18:40:37
Originally by: Naughty Boy
[Faction Stuffs]
* Domination mwd on the market: 130-150 millions.
* Gisti small SB on the market: 70 millions.
NB.
As someone who as just purchased a domination 10mn mwd I found the market price to be in the 80-90m area, not 130-150m. And a Gistii shield booster is by no means needed (neither is the mwd, I got it not for the speed boost but for the lower cap usage, standard t2 work well), most people go with dual t2 shield extenders.
As for webbing even if you end up within web range of some ships during the fight you are almost always able to glide out of it (with the help of your mwd) before loosing too much speed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.04 19:00:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Hoshi
As someone who as just purchased a domination 10mn mwd I found the market price to be in the 80-90m area, not 130-150m. And a Gistii shield booster is by no means needed (neither is the mwd, I got it not for the speed boost but for the lower cap usage, standard t2 work well), most people go with dual t2 shield extenders.
As for webbing even if you end up within web range of some ships during the fight you are almost always able to glide out of it (with the help of your mwd) before loosing too much speed.
Pretty much agreed on all accounts, as for the price of the mwd I have no real idea, at some point I wanted one and couldn't find any cheaper than 130 millions, which i deemed silly.
I was rather having an issue with "the vagabond can do it all, at the same time" backed up with a faction based setup. It can do a lot, but it's still very limited in what it can do with only 4 mids and aweful armor resists.
NB.
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