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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
7458
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Posted - 2014.06.05 15:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey Guys,
As some of you may have heard today, thereGÇÖs been reports of job cuts here at CCP in the gaming media. As part of our strategy to focus on the EVE Universe, today we conducted a restructuring that resulted in the layoff of 49 people in our publishing organization.
This has been a really tough decision for us to make, and though itGÇÖs hard to say goodbye to our friends and family, this action concludes the process we started several months ago to restructure CCP.
CCP has provided severance packages and job placement assistance for all those employees who are affected, and we wish them all the best for the future.
In terms of what this means for our games, development teams and plans for EVE Online, EVE: Valkyrie, DUST 514, and GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ are not impacted by the restructuring that has taken place today.
If you'd like to discuss what's happened today, feel free to do so in this thread.
Thanks,
- F CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6274
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 15:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Publishing organization? What exactly is in the publishing organization's portfolio? Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Nicen Jehr
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
394
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 15:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
:( do the guys who were let go get to say goodbye ITT? Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á| My Little Things posts |
Prince Kobol
1894
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 15:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf
and
http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/5/5782190/ccp-iceland-layoffs-eve-online |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3319
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 15:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
publishing organisation? is that white wolf? |
ISquishWorms
236
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 15:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Speechless, other than to say that it sounds to me like some at the top need changing fast.
. |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
152
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 15:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes White Wolf...
Which is a pity really....no one parties like White Wolf...I mean no one. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |
Marcus Gord
Stormcrows
55379
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 15:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
here's hoping those who were let go will be alright.
thanks for what you've done for us o7 You can't take the sky from me
".....Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well....." |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6275
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Posted - 2014.06.05 16:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hm. Also, that Guardian article is quite the bit of muck-raking. It looks like it was mostly based on the report of one disgruntled employee, but if even half-true there are some corrections that need to be made. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
3rr0rc0d3
7792
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Never a good thing to lose your job, but at least there is a severance package provided. Best of luck to all 49 of them!
Also in before the obligatory "EVE is dying!" comments. I make spacemusic. www.minddivided.com
Proud supporter of HighDrag Podcast http://highdrag.wordpress.com |
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Alundil
Rolled Out
528
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Posted - 2014.06.05 16:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yes - some response on the allegations would be most warranted at this point. Especially considering the allegedly ghost-written "Sincere apology"
Even if this is, admittedly, a one-sided article since no one from CCP mgmt decided to reply to The Guardian, it is a pretty disheartening thing to read.
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Prince Kobol
1896
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Posted - 2014.06.05 16:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Hm. Also, that Guardian article is quite the bit of muck-raking. It looks like it was mostly based on the report of one disgruntled employee, but if even half-true there are some corrections that need to be made.
Well to defend CCP Dropbear, as far as I am aware there was no reason he should be disgruntled. He left CCP to go back to Australia.
Think it is unfair to say he was disgruntled. |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
153
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Posted - 2014.06.05 16:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Any sort of management needs to always understand this: People (workers) will never remember what you said in the past...but they will always remember how you made them feel. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |
ISquishWorms
236
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Posted - 2014.06.05 16:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Hm. Also, that Guardian article is quite the bit of muck-raking. It looks like it was mostly based on the report of one disgruntled employee, but if even half-true there are some corrections that need to be made. Well to defend CCP Dropbear, as far as I am aware there was no reason he should be disgruntled. He left CCP to go back to Australia. Think it is unfair to say he was disgruntled.
Also if you can not refute the statements best to stay silent?
Often silence says a lot more than a loud response. . |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6275
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hm. Fair enough, PK. Perhaps he isn't disgruntled, necessarily, so much as jaded and demoralized. What he says isn't what you'd expect of someone neutral or happy with the status quo.
That said, while I love EVE and I hope CCP does well, I'm still of the mind that there are elements of amateur hour here. By all appearances, CCP needs to tighten up its development processes and management. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
153
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
I do remember Dropbear saying one of the great things about running as an NPC actor in Incursions (ie events) was that you could gank freighters at gates and collect the tears of players who just can't be bothered to check the map. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1163
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Something tells me the ship is starting to take on water @ CCP, and they're trying to do their best to bail the water out as fast as possible. I mean, they haven't even touted their subscription numbers like they used to all the time, and I find that a bit odd with as much as they did in the past. And you get them finally closing down White Wolf and all the other changes they have been making. Hope their bucket is big enough. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
591
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Yes - some response on the allegations would be most warranted at this point. Especially considering the allegedly ghost-written "Sincere apology" Even if this is, admittedly, a one-sided article since no one from CCP mgmt decided to reply to The Guardian, it is a pretty disheartening thing to read.
At the time I thought "Wow - he can write". But the nagging suspicion was there. CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6277
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
I wouldn't go that far, ILB; but if WoD, Dust, and Incarna are any example, CCP definitely needs to tighten up. They have enough funding to do remarkable things, provided that they don't burn their resources on endless, cyclic prototyping. The keys are clear development paths and clear, concisely-expressed design vision to ensure that they can go from concept to deployment speedily and effectively.
Hopefully the new rapid deployment model is based on a change in CCP's internal methods, but I wouldn't bet on it until we start seeing it in action. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
363
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
o7 to the ones departing. Bright future for all of you. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
381
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Posted - 2014.06.05 16:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Hm. Also, that Guardian article is quite the bit of muck-raking. It looks like it was mostly based on the report of one disgruntled employee, but if even half-true there are some corrections that need to be made.
If you work in the games industry or the wider software industry in general, his story is fairly typical.
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6279
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Also, aw, crap. I heard that Eterne's going. :/
As a lorehound and RPer, this one stings a bit. :/ It may not be the development team, but even one lore-focused CCPer nets a lot of return for those of us who want a living, breathing world to play in. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
902
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
At least CCP is nice enough to hold job fairs and bring out recruiters for their employees so they find jobs immediately, and the transition is almost seamless. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
3550
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Confirming that 90% of the time the people we need to bash is management because the devs we all know and love are truly passionate about the game they work on and very capable individuals that really could deliver everything we want and more. The Drake is a Lie |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
324
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Posted - 2014.06.05 17:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
I still miss CCP Dropbear and his ability to lead a good story. His posts and all the lore stuff that was happening around Apocrypha was pure gold. For thos who don't know what I'm talking about (it was 4 years ago after all), here's one example. I still read it sometimes to try to figure out if EVE community left something undiscovered.
As for the today's news, I wish all those that left CCP all the best. My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3109
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
And so it continues.
This should stop the bleeding on the bottom line for another quarter or two. Hopefully that will be enough time for CCP to crank up the micro-transaction portion of the business, because it is clearly not growing revenue through additional subs.
There is a reason that we can now double or triple train on accounts at the small cost of a plex every month. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
14001
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Also, aw, crap. I heard that Eterne's going. :/
Wait.. Wut?
But.. But.. This will truly kill a part of my soul.
CCP Eterne was the one who applied my first 3 forum bans, and answered some support tickets of mine.. I owe that guy a beer or two for putting up with me and also the magnificent work he has done at CCP.
How can I continue to be the villain , if the hero is gone? Who can hang upside down over a pool of ill-tempered sea bass while I monologue?
o7 Eterne. That raincheck for a beer has no expiration date. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
12024
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Best of luck to all, this is really sad news.
/c
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KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
591
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:At least CCP is nice enough to hold job fairs and bring out recruiters for their employees so they find jobs immediately, and the transition is almost seamless.
Wow. So clueless. Or possibly a manager trying to slap on the mental salve?
At least 2-3 months of salary will hit the ashcan from this disruption in their lives. Real estate investments trashed. Worse, the mental trauma for them, their SO's and the kids from being ripped out of from social groups, schools, and functions. You're admiring CCP for being "nice"?? CCP's doing what it absolutely should be doing to minimize the pain caused by upper management's continuing series of mistakes. The only saving grace would be that upper management was also be properly being held accountable for those decisions, but that ivory tower is packing super high resists.
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
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Endecroix
Royal Reidquat Airforce
8
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Posted - 2014.06.05 18:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Will CCP be responding to the accusations in the Guardian's article. Specifically the accusation that the apology speech was not as heartfelt as we were led to believe? That's not something you want to leave hanging in the air. There is a difference between something written completely by someone else (as the article suggests) and something more akin to how a politician would get input from a speech writer. Would be nice to clear the air on that one at least. |
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
222
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Get rid of some of the executives.
What value for money and for CCP can they provide given their obvious failures?
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Alewx
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.05 18:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
I just can't believe this, as the NEX store with the monocle was introduced a single forum thread was filled within hours by hunderts of posts from different people just raging, but now, as it is something that is really really serious noone cares, are you all just out of your minds?!
A game Company having trouble will never ever tell its community that is is in trouble, that is simple Business psychology. But these are some serious signs that something in the background is not going well. It is a shame that this one so encouraged community is now, as it is a point of matter is just doing nothing than watching! EVE FOREVER, that now just sounds like a joke, with a community that cares more about not to pay something in addition, instead of fighting for its so loved game.
And just for knowing, I payed 15Gé¼ just to post this, because my Job in a gaming company with three online f2p game does not give my much of sparetime for EVE. I still can't believe this. |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2014.06.05 18:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Hilmar had the eve fiction team write his apology.
LOL! |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
749
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
A must read that goes along with this round of layoffs at CCP: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf Not today spaghetti. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
749
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
So what are we going to call this debacle from CCP?
My vote is WhiteWolf-gate. Not today spaghetti. |
Felicity Love
It Was the Year 3030
1862
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
Very disappointed in CCP over this.
VERY.
"Where trouble melts like lemon drops, high above the chimeny tops that's where you'll find me..." -á -- Bruddah Iz
|
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
749
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Very disappointed in CCP over this. VERY.
After the entire Ishukone Scorpion/BLINK debacle I vowed to never pay CCP another penny of my hard earned money and this article makes me very happy I made that decision. Not today spaghetti. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
594
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Felicity Love wrote:Very disappointed in CCP over this. VERY. After the entire Ishukone Scorpion/BLINK debacle I vowed to never pay CCP another penny of my hard earned money and this article makes me very happy I made that decision.
Happen to notice that nothing was ever announced about Somergate? After asking the critics to give them time CCP walked away. I guess the fiction department was a bit too busy that day.
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
|
Felicity Love
It Was the Year 3030
1863
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:
After the entire Ishukone Scorpion/BLINK debacle I vowed to never pay CCP another penny of my hard earned money and this article makes me very happy I made that decision.
I hear that.
Purely an "ISK for PLEX" kind of person myself these days.
"Where trouble melts like lemon drops, high above the chimeny tops that's where you'll find me..." -á -- Bruddah Iz
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
750
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Posted - 2014.06.05 18:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Sexy Cakes wrote:Felicity Love wrote:Very disappointed in CCP over this. VERY. After the entire Ishukone Scorpion/BLINK debacle I vowed to never pay CCP another penny of my hard earned money and this article makes me very happy I made that decision. Happen to notice that nothing was ever announced about Somergate? After asking the critics to give them time CCP walked away. I guess the fiction department was a bit too busy that day.
And they sent poor CCP Guard out to us to try and placate the situation but he got chewed up and spit out. I can only imagine that Guard tried to tell his superiors about how upset the player base was about it and they just blew him off like they did us.
Guard seems like decent guy. Wonder how long till he leaves CCP :'( Not today spaghetti. |
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KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
594
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:
And they sent poor CCP Guard out to us to try and placate the situation but he got chewed up and spit out. I can only imagine that Guard tried to tell his superiors about how upset the player base was about it and they just blew him off like they did us.
Guard seems like decent guy. Wonder how long till he leaves CCP :'(
I was wondering about him the other day. Hasn't been in one of the "what's coming" vid's in a while. Those vid's - that's EVE lore.
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
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Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
472
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 19:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
"...layoff of 49 people in our publishing organization..." - I wonder if the overall lack of strong sales towards the Collector's Edition hurt this group too since you do not promote something and within months slash the price down a third.
I guess this will mean no more hard cover books based on the Eve universe either.
Good luck to those affected. |
Felicity Love
It Was the Year 3030
1864
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 19:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Is it time to shoot the monument yet ?
Yes, I refer to the ingame monument outside Jita 4-4... and it's a sign of the times I feel the need to err on the side of caution and make the distinction versus the RL monument.
"Where trouble melts like lemon drops, high above the chimeny tops that's where you'll find me..." -á -- Bruddah Iz
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Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1910
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 19:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
Good to see Upper Management unchanged for a long time now!
Keep up the....good work! I hope everyone voted in the CSM elections! Thank you to those who actually supported my campaign! Even if I don't get elected in, I hope that the CSM that do, and Devs actually use my ideas somewhere! |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1846
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 19:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
Having the fiction team write an apology is pretty cool and appropriate. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22361
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 19:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Alewx wrote:I just can't believe this, as the NEX store with the monocle was introduced a single forum thread was filled within hours by hunderts of posts from different people just raging, but now, as it is something that is really really serious noone cares, are you all just out of your minds?! The thread in question was filled, not so much with the NEX and monocles, but with this very issue. People have already expended their care quota and are most likely not entirely surprised.
The only ones who'd do more than give a shrug of acknowledgement are the ones who still somehow, magically, believed that ambulation was a thingGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
594
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 19:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
The team pulled one over when they scripted that he had to kiss TheMittani's ring in the makeup meeting. lol CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
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Riyal
Fluffles Inc.
142
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 20:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
I wish those that have lost jobs the best of luck.
The Guardian article is disturbing, especially the apology part. |
Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
63
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 20:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Alundil wrote:Yes - some response on the allegations would be most warranted at this point. Especially considering the allegedly ghost-written "Sincere apology" Even if this is, admittedly, a one-sided article since no one from CCP mgmt decided to reply to The Guardian, it is a pretty disheartening thing to read. At the time I thought "Wow - he can write". But the nagging suspicion was there. Should have known better - CEO's do nothing on their own.
First thing my GF said, what CEO writes their own press releases...very few. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
67
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Posted - 2014.06.05 20:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
TMC reports that also CCP Xhagen and CCP Loxy are gone.
Unless I'm wrong, CCP fired 19 developers in december, 56 in april, and now 49. That's a good bunch of people.
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Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
71
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Posted - 2014.06.05 20:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Management should come from the ground floor. Huge companies always seem to end up with these monumental managers who, being so insulated from what it actually takes to get the work done, make terrible misinformed decisions. Marketing departments also need to ask developers about their visions, not push their own agendas based on what they think will safely work. Otherwise the creativity will stagnate, developers will become disillusioned and uninspired and business will suffer. If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request. |
Rainbow Dash
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
124
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 21:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
It's pretty clear, from that article and reviews of the company by ex-employees, that the management is terrible and responsible for a lot of CCP's struggles. Unfortunately, I think clueless management might drag CCP to an early grave.
The old saying "Eve succeeded despite CCP, not because of them" rings more true today than ever. |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet Market and Contract PVP
863
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 21:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
I have very strong feelings about this and the more information I find on the matter the less sympathetic I am too CCP. CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Alewx
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:TMC reports that also CCP Xhagen and CCP Loxy are gone. Unless I'm wrong, CCP fired 19 developers in december, 56 in april, and now 49. That's a good bunch of people. That is about 1/5 off the overall employees... But nooooo of course EVE will not be affected....[Sarcasm] I really was believing in CCP having something different than other companies. PLEX, NEX, Collectors Editions that all sympthoms of the same problem that already began years ago. CCP was once almost down, but they got back up.
EVE is 10 Years older than Star Citizien, it is indeed already online, but still can not get enough cash from the players? Is the SC community bigger, stronger or giving more? Is RSI lieing about the cash, or is there again a myserious Investment in the background?
Monthly payment for playing alone is not enough to keep it up, so PLEX came, but still it is not enough and than NEX came and also the Rebellion. 10 years of great big game and unique universe, so isn't EVE worth it?
All are talking so big that something was done wrong, that it would have to be done different in the past, but what the hell, do you all have running game companies for more than 10 years, without mistakes? Anyone, please step forward.
It is not just CCP that is having problems it is the whole industrie, but EVE should be ahead of this problems and show solutions. Like the CSM there has to be something unique a bond and contract between company and community. None of them can stand alone. We like the game we want to play it, so than we as community should also give them the founding to run the game, and develop it. In fact we have the CSM so why isn't there already planing and discussion about how to keep on? |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet Market and Contract PVP
864
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 21:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
OHGOD
Is this it? Is this the end?
Quote:Sweet Jesus, it's an Anti-AT Field! ~Flipping All The Tables~ CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10300
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 21:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Oh my ******* god, you people. Stop acting like this is the first time a software company has ever done this.
I don't even work in the industry (yet) and I know full well to expect this kind of thing from pretty much anywhere I'd go. Nothing about the linked article surprises me either. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:41:00 -
[57] - Quote
BUT...BUT...CCP TOOK THEIR FOOD AWAY!?
I bet management continued to eat lobster though. |
Radgette
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
77
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
erm CCP Xhagen is publishing? really?
He is a massive loss tbh great guy and been with CCP for like 11 years. thats gonna have an effect on EVE nomatter what CCP says.
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DrSmegma
Smegma United
250
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:53:00 -
[59] - Quote
49 people? Wow. The last one switches the light off. Space lonely? multicamchat.com |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10301
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Pine Marten wrote:I bet management continued to eat lobster though. Probably. Welcome to capitalism. None of this should be surprising. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet Market and Contract PVP
865
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Oh my ******* god, you people. Stop acting like this is the first time a software company has ever done this.
I don't even work in the industry (yet) and I know full well to expect this kind of thing from pretty much anywhere I'd go. Nothing about the linked article surprises me either.
Admitedly I put CCP on a pedastool when compared to ofter software companies. I expect stuff like this from gaben and Americanized triple A companies, not CCP.
BREAKING: CCP lays off all of CCP to restructure CCP.
CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
RaZZZZia
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exit Strategy..
43
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
@CCP Execs (who wont read this anyway, corporate shenanegans are the same everywhere.)
I know businesses well enough to know that at some point only amputation helps getting things back shipshape.
BUT this is not the first "restructuring" we see here. Since 2009 or so you guys should have learned that you're not a small shop anymore and have seen to get people aboard who know how to manage larger companies. It appears to me that this didnt happen.
We saw a lot of things happening at Dev-Levels, some amongst them good (jesus-features, etc.) some meh, but well i think dev works got a lot better in the last two years.
However CCP in its current state reeks of middlemanagement and c-level-bs. Knowing the phenomenon from my own career, this is usually the result of fast growth without c-levels arriving in that reality. So a ton of middlemanagement is recruited to buffer from the harshnesses that come with not being an operation out of a gardenshed anymore. Middlemanagement wants to keep their jobs, so everything gets filtered. Voil+á Eastern Block Syndrome where the head doesnt know of the festering boil that develops at the knee; simply because the middlemanagement belly is blocking sight and communications.
If you have a valid strategy, by all means, do what you need to do. If that includes cutting some lard from the staff, well see that theyre taken care of, to look at least like an employer with some humanity. If that includes axing the complete managerial staff and executive level, call the bloodraiders. If it means for a lot higherups who have been there from the start to let loose the reins, guys, let them loose. While the loss of power may be something unpleasent, doing so is amongst the greatest bragging materials ever. And it hurts much less than running the project you spend short of two decades at in the ground.
DO NOT **** THIS UP.
DO NOT BREAK THE PRODUCTION LIVE FOR YOUR CLIENTS FAVOURITE TOYS AND YOUR ONLY PRODUCT.
The gaming industry has seen too many studios shutting down recently after cutting everything down to a skeleton operation. That is not a good meme.
Thank you. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10301
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:11:00 -
[63] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Oh my ******* god, you people. Stop acting like this is the first time a software company has ever done this.
I don't even work in the industry (yet) and I know full well to expect this kind of thing from pretty much anywhere I'd go. Nothing about the linked article surprises me either. Admitedly I put CCP on a pedastool when compared to ofter software companies. I expect stuff like this from gaben and Americanized triple A companies, not CCP. BREAKING: CCP lays off all of CCP to restructure CCP. Yeah, it's not unique to American companies. Just take a look at Watch Dogs for an example of another game developed under pretty much the same conditions and principles. That game was developed by a Canadian subsidiary of a French company. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Alundil
Rolled Out
531
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Oh my ******* god, you people. Stop acting like this is the first time a software company has ever done this.
I don't even work in the industry (yet) and I know full well to expect this kind of thing from pretty much anywhere I'd go. Nothing about the linked article surprises me either. Admitedly I put CCP on a pedastool when compared to ofter software companies. I expect stuff like this from gaben and Americanized triple A companies, not CCP. BREAKING: CCP lays off all of CCP to restructure CCP. I've actually read some pretty interesting things about how Valve (gaben) runs things and most of them have sounded pretty cool/fair tbh.
I can't say the same thing about CCP. In fact, I don't think I've seen any positive "industry" write-ups about CCP or it's work environment/culture, whereas I have seen such about the bigger and well known software dev companies.
And James A-K, there might be some who are overreacting. But I don't think I see a lot of responses from people seeming surprised about this most recent wrinkle in the tale of ambulations downfall (and other things it drags down). I see more people sadly resigned to having expected something like this already. The part that does bother a bit is the likelihood that the whole "mea culpa" and "we'll do better" etc etc etc was fabricated. Is that surprising? No (also sadly), but it is greatly disappointing.
|
Pj Harvey
Ship spinners inc
18
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
I was wondering myself the last few weeks after coming back from an extended absence, how everything in eve is has been 'adjusted' to be 2x to 4x the price. When I left a bs was 60 mil, a mindlink was 5 mil and a cruiser was 4 mil. It seems CCP have been artificially raising in-game prices to sell PLEX because they need to milk eve as much as possible for other projects. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
Alewx wrote:Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:TMC reports that also CCP Xhagen and CCP Loxy are gone. Unless I'm wrong, CCP fired 19 developers in december, 56 in april, and now 49. That's a good bunch of people. That is about 1/5 off the overall employees... But nooooo of course EVE will not be affected....[Sarcasm] I really was believing in CCP having something different than other companies. PLEX, NEX, Collectors Editions that all sympthoms of the same problem that already began years ago. CCP was once almost down, but they got back up. EVE is 10 Years older than Star Citizien, it is indeed already online, but still can not get enough cash from the players? Is the SC community bigger, stronger or giving more? Is RSI lieing about the cash, or is there again a myserious Investment in the background? Monthly payment for playing alone is not enough to keep it up, so PLEX came, but still it is not enough and than NEX came and also the Rebellion. 10 years of great big game and unique universe, so isn't EVE worth it? All are talking so big that something was done wrong, that it would have to be done different in the past, but what the hell, do you all have running game companies for more than 10 years, without mistakes? Anyone, please step forward. It is not just CCP that is having problems it is the whole industrie, but EVE should be ahead of this problems and show solutions. Like the CSM there has to be something unique a bond and contract between company and community. None of them can stand alone. We like the game we want to play it, so than we as community should also give them the founding to run the game, and develop it. In fact we have the CSM so why isn't there already planing and discussion about how to keep on?
The amount of players online stagnated after dipping with Incarna and bouncing up with Crucible, and now it's going down. It's easy to guess that less players online means that they also aren't paying subscriptions and so CCP is losing revenue.
These days, seeing Kronos launch, I've been under a strong impression of living a Crucible event -CCP doing the 110% and getting players back to the game after rough weather... But the cold hard fact is that PCU in May has been 7,000 players below that of 2013. Mind you, it's 7,000 out of 35,000 just one year ago, or 20% less players.
And the question is: what else can CCP do? Kronos is a great patch, but certainly I will not resub any of my accounts over it, nor over Crius, nor over anything they've planned to release until 2015. |
RaZZZZia
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exit Strategy..
44
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:31:00 -
[67] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
And the question is: what else can CCP do? Kronos is a great patch, but certainly I will not resub any of my accounts over it, nor over Crius, nor over anything they've planned to release until 2016.
no another two goodones of the 6week releases in a row and my guess would be that we would see a slight but steady increase in online peeps. take into account that june-september are pretty weak months anyway.
add the drama that is to be expected with the economic changes and we should see more people due to press coverage, etc.
|
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet Market and Contract PVP
865
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:42:00 -
[68] - Quote
Pj Harvey wrote:I was wondering myself the last few weeks after coming back from an extended absence, how everything in eve is has been 'adjusted' to be 2x to 4x the price. When I left a bs was 60 mil, a mindlink was 5 mil and a cruiser was 4 mil. It seems CCP have been artificially raising in-game prices to sell PLEX because they need to milk eve as much as possible for other projects.
And people call me crazy....
I been crowing about this for years. CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2865
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
Multiple character training. Near-complete removal of lore development. Removal of older lore assets. Layoffs. Recall program. Up-tempo development cycle. Immediate 2015 FanFest ticket sales. Cash Shop. More layoffs.
Someone needs to shore up their cash position. Someone's courting investors or purchasers. "i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
119
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:48:00 -
[70] - Quote
Pj Harvey wrote:I was wondering myself the last few weeks after coming back from an extended absence, how everything in eve is has been 'adjusted' to be 2x to 4x the price. When I left a bs was 60 mil, a mindlink was 5 mil and a cruiser was 4 mil. It seems CCP have been artificially raising in-game prices to sell PLEX because they need to milk eve as much as possible for other projects.
You heard it here first, CCP inflated the price of Tritanium to get more PLEX sales. |
|
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society Affirmative.
338
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:10:00 -
[71] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Oh my ******* god, you people. Stop acting like this is the first time a software company has ever done this.
I don't even work in the industry (yet) and I know full well to expect this kind of thing from pretty much anywhere I'd go. Nothing about the linked article surprises me either. See, the thing is.. They devs have twitters and reddits, and there is all this social bonding.. we even go to Fanfest where we get to meet the devs in person... They aren't some random devs to us anymore, they are 'our' devs. Kind of. |
|
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1511
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
Temporarily locked for some cleanup.
Okay, false alarm. Removed a post for rumor mongering and attacks against a CCP employee. Thread unlocked. ISD LackOfFaith Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums. |
|
|
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1511
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Also, I'll miss you, CCP Eterne <3 ISD LackOfFaith Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums. |
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
547
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
Will CCP be issuing a statement about the accusations leveled against it by some departing and departed staff in the gaming media? Or at least allow us a thread to discuss it without said thread being locked as 'rumor' no matter that it's being reported in the media as 'fact'? |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5185
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
Quote:I once saw him looking over the shoulder of a programmer at some bit of User Interface the poor guy had hacked together. He straightened up, put fingers to lips and said, GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ He hissed on his ******* fingertips, like the air coming out of a bicycle tire, and then just walked away.
Hah! What does that even mean? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10301
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 00:05:00 -
[76] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Multiple character training. A feature that has been requested many, many times and which has no drawbacks.
Domanique Altares wrote:Layoffs. More layoffs. Normal, especially in the wake of a cancelled project.
Domanique Altares wrote:Recall program. This is not new. CCP has had incentives for returning players before.
Domanique Altares wrote:Up-tempo development cycle. I can't even think of any downside to this, and there are plenty of upsides. It's certainly not indicative of a dying game or a failing company.
Domanique Altares wrote:Immediate 2015 FanFest ticket sales. Cash Shop. The same number of tickets are available as before. They've all sold before and they'll all sell again. This doesn't make them any more money. The cash shop has been in the game for almost three years now. There's no reason not to have cosmetic microtransactions. Putting this as a detractor is dumb. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2867
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 00:38:00 -
[77] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Putting this as a detractor is dumb.
Taking everything I said as a negative is dumb.
These are ways that a smart business betters its cash position prior to trying to bring on additional investors.
Why must you always be so negative? "i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
135
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 00:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Very sad to hear about the layoffs and hope everyone effected moves on to successful endeavors.
Pretty sure we don't need an official response from CCP, as we know who will actually be writing it.
I truly hope this is the end of layoffs. It sounded like there was some deep internal issues within CCP and hopefully those left are a cohesive bunch. They need to get profitable, they do no one any good if they go under or continuously struggle. Did senior management screw up.... Big time. But many companies may have never recovered from an "Incarna", CCP did. Hopefully there have been some egos trimmed (if not slashed) at the senior level, and the next shiny they see will be dealt with accordingly.
All of CCP deserve huge credit for Eve. I just hope there are enough of the right people left. damn it is hard to delete my signature |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10301
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 00:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Putting this as a detractor is dumb. Taking everything I said as a negative is dumb. These are ways that a smart business betters its cash position prior to trying to bring on additional investors. Why must you always be so negative? Look at where your post is. It's not dumb to interpret your post as negative when it's worded ambiguously and surrounded by other negative posts. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2868
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 00:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Putting this as a detractor is dumb. Taking everything I said as a negative is dumb. These are ways that a smart business betters its cash position prior to trying to bring on additional investors. Why must you always be so negative? Look at where your post is. It's not dumb to interpret your post as negative when it's worded ambiguously and surrounded by other negative posts.
Reading things into an 'ambiguous' post is never a good sign. It's probably time to take a step back; the negativity seems to be affecting you. "i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh |
|
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 01:00:00 -
[81] - Quote
Well if the problem has been with CCP's upper management's ability to focus and have unified direction, I know where they can find a bunch of highly passionate, very EVE familiar individuals with lots of experience herding tens of thousands of cats at a directorate level. I'm sure they'd be able to whip things into shape, given the chance.
They might make Dinsdale mad though. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10301
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 01:29:00 -
[82] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Putting this as a detractor is dumb. Taking everything I said as a negative is dumb. These are ways that a smart business betters its cash position prior to trying to bring on additional investors. Why must you always be so negative? Look at where your post is. It's not dumb to interpret your post as negative when it's worded ambiguously and surrounded by other negative posts. Reading things into an 'ambiguous' post is never a good sign. It's probably time to take a step back; the negativity seems to be affecting you. Your post sounds like every other "CCP is just grabbing for cash" post I see on GD every day. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
RaZZZZia
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exit Strategy..
46
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 01:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Well if the problem has been with CCP's upper management's ability to focus and have unified direction, I know where they can find a bunch of highly passionate, very EVE familiar individuals with lots of experience herding tens of thousands of cats at a directorate level. I'm sure they'd be able to whip things into shape, given the chance. They might make Dinsdale mad though.
CCP should aquire a popcorn factory then. |
Burtzum
Det Som Engang Var
8
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 01:46:00 -
[84] - Quote
So when is the EVE UI going to get some more psssshhhh? The upcoming industry UI looks like it might have quite a lot of psssshhhh. I hope the main UI can get some. Lack of UI psssshhhh is one of the main deterrents to gaining new subscribers I think. |
stoicfaux
4949
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 01:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Burtzum wrote:So when is the EVE UI going to get some more psssshhhh? The upcoming industry UI looks like it might have quite a lot of psssshhhh. I hope the main UI can get some. Lack of UI psssshhhh is one of the main deterrents to gaining new subscribers I think. Die in a pssssssssssssssshhhhhh. In game.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
547
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 01:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
RaZZZZia wrote:
CCP should aquire a popcorn factory then.
I'd definitely recommend getting their PR manager into gear. CCP is taking a beating in the press atm due to their ex employees spilling beans all over. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10303
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 02:14:00 -
[87] - Quote
Just make it more pssssshh, it'll be fine. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
751
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 02:20:00 -
[88] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Your post sounds like every other "CCP is just grabbing for cash" post I see on GD every day.
Don't get it twisted.
You don't treat people like that. Just because it happens to you and me every day of the week and probably 95% of the work force don't make it right.
Fat cat higher ups who are dumb as f*ck and throw blame on their subordinates are lame as hell.
The fact that you just blow off that concept makes me think your a lamer fat cat irl. Not today spaghetti. |
stoicfaux
4950
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 02:20:00 -
[89] - Quote
On the plus side, moving to ten releases a year implies that CCP is becoming more results focused with the ability to iterate (follow through.) It will be more difficult for "unimplementable" grand ideas to take root resulting in over-promising and under-delivering.
And with the overhauls to industry and tiericide and ship overhauls, coupled with new content, it seems as if CCP is striking a balance between "polish until it shines," and "oooh shinies!"
/I, for one, welcome our chair-hating agile overlords
OTOH, cutting costs on employee health insurance. ouch.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
165
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 02:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
I don't know what the big deal is. Pssssshhh is the noise a can of quafe makes when opened. Perfectly ordinary jargon for a CCP employee. |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10303
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 02:25:00 -
[91] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Your post sounds like every other "CCP is just grabbing for cash" post I see on GD every day. Don't get it twisted. You don't treat people like that. Just because it happens to you and me every day of the week and probably 95% of the work force don't make it right. Fat cat higher ups who are dumb as f*ck and throw blame on their subordinates are lame as hell. The fact that you just blow off that concept makes me think your a lamer fat cat irl. Maybe you should look at what I was replying to. Maybe you should also find the post where I said that this was right. You won't though, because I didn't. Sorry for being a realist. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
479
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 02:55:00 -
[92] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Well if the problem has been with CCP's upper management's ability to focus and have unified direction, I know where they can find a bunch of highly passionate, very EVE familiar individuals with lots of experience herding tens of thousands of cats at a directorate level. I'm sure they'd be able to whip things into shape, given the chance. They might make Dinsdale mad though.
What do you Goons want now? A magic temple that spits out titans and supers for every Yay CCP post you people make? A 100% refinery that mines all the ore within 10 LY automatically?
You are NOT the solution, you are ONE of the big problems with the game. Come to think of it, I think peak players online coincided with Goonswarm losing most of their territory and hanging out in syndicate. Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
165
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 03:08:00 -
[93] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Arkady Romanov wrote:Well if the problem has been with CCP's upper management's ability to focus and have unified direction, I know where they can find a bunch of highly passionate, very EVE familiar individuals with lots of experience herding tens of thousands of cats at a directorate level. I'm sure they'd be able to whip things into shape, given the chance. They might make Dinsdale mad though. What do you Goons want now? A magic temple that spits out titans and supers for every Yay CCP post you people make? A 100% refinery that mines all the ore within 10 LY automatically? You are NOT the solution, you are ONE of the big problems with the game. Come to think of it, I think peak players online coincided with Goonswarm losing most of their territory and hanging out in syndicate.
This kind of post is exactly what we want. Thanks for contributing.
|
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
269
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 03:10:00 -
[94] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Something tells me the ship is starting to take on water @ CCP, and they're trying to do their best to bail the water out as fast as possible. I mean, they haven't even touted their subscription numbers like they used to all the time, and I find that a bit odd with as much as they did in the past. And you get them finally closing down White Wolf and all the other changes they have been making. Hope their bucket is big enough.
Doom and gloom conjecture is nice and all
people are sick of the stagnation and impossible barrier to entry for null aka "real eve". People have become burnt out after waiting years and years for their favourite ships to be made viable for playing in (and even then some of them are just crap still) People are dropping their sub numbers thanks to high plex prices (which is a good thing in a lot of ways, less alts running on auto pilot means more real jobs being performed by unique players, in effect high plex prices make it easier for newbies to get some traction) People are bored of running old missions and sig-sites. It's the same **** literally every single time. EVE is not something I personally ever expected to become routine but yet here it has. You reach this point in time where there's just no challenge any more. Game mechanics favouring stationary groups ie gate camps. After 11 years gate camps are still the easiest way to catch targets. Yeah I get that they're artificial choke points but really people should be fighting in complexes or at structures not gates and stations. Stupidly powerful levels of force projection. Bring a battleship fleet? They bring supers. Coincidentally i think jump range should decrease exponentially with the size of the ship. If a carrier can jump 11ly or whatever a titan should only be able to jump max 1 or 2.
and the list just goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on and on. LP store weapon cost rebalance |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10305
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 03:14:00 -
[95] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Arkady Romanov wrote:Well if the problem has been with CCP's upper management's ability to focus and have unified direction, I know where they can find a bunch of highly passionate, very EVE familiar individuals with lots of experience herding tens of thousands of cats at a directorate level. I'm sure they'd be able to whip things into shape, given the chance. They might make Dinsdale mad though. What do you Goons want now? A magic temple that spits out titans and supers for every Yay CCP post you people make? A 100% refinery that mines all the ore within 10 LY automatically? You are NOT the solution, you are ONE of the big problems with the game. Come to think of it, I think peak players online coincided with Goonswarm losing most of their territory and hanging out in syndicate. Vaccines cause autism, global warming is a conspiracy, GMOs will give us cancer, and persecution of Christians is everywhere! No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1850
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 03:19:00 -
[96] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Vaccines cause autism, global warming is a conspiracy, GMOs will give us cancer, and persecution of Christians is everywhere!
Way to prove him right.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5187
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 04:29:00 -
[97] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Vaccines cause autism
Man you have no idea how evil vaccines are. I got my flu vaccine in March & since then I've had this great urge to inject marijuanas in to my eye because needles are beneficial. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
63
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 05:14:00 -
[98] - Quote
Pj Harvey wrote:I was wondering myself the last few weeks after coming back from an extended absence, how everything in eve is has been 'adjusted' to be 2x to 4x the price. When I left a bs was 60 mil, a mindlink was 5 mil and a cruiser was 4 mil. It seems CCP have been artificially raising in-game prices to sell PLEX because they need to milk eve as much as possible for other projects.
No this will not be the case (other than increasing costs of minerals when they rebalanced the ships so they are all useful) and CCP would want lower plex prices so people have to buy more plex to sell to get a certain amount of money....
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Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
63
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 05:20:00 -
[99] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Pj Harvey wrote:I was wondering myself the last few weeks after coming back from an extended absence, how everything in eve is has been 'adjusted' to be 2x to 4x the price. When I left a bs was 60 mil, a mindlink was 5 mil and a cruiser was 4 mil. It seems CCP have been artificially raising in-game prices to sell PLEX because they need to milk eve as much as possible for other projects. And people call me crazy.... I been crowing about this for years.
You are, totally crazy, and don't quite understand how this works |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
7354
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 05:22:00 -
[100] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Vaccines cause autism, global warming is a conspiracy, GMOs will give us cancer, and persecution of Christians is everywhere!
Way to prove him right. But you left out people frying their brains with cell phones
moar psssshhhh
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22362
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 05:26:00 -
[101] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Quote:I once saw him looking over the shoulder of a programmer at some bit of User Interface the poor guy had hacked together. He straightened up, put fingers to lips and said, GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ He hissed on his ******* fingertips, like the air coming out of a bicycle tire, and then just walked away. Hah! What does that even mean? This, more or less. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Prince Kobol
1905
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 06:24:00 -
[102] - Quote
I think it is reasonable for people to be worried.
Over the last 12 months CCP have let go of a lot of great Devs, they have also lost a lots of great devs to other companies.
On top of this the PCU count is showing a downward trend. CCP have usually been quite open about subs numbers but now they have gone very quiet.
Now I am not saying is Eve is dying, however you can not say things are looking good.
I do not need to look at the PCU count to see these are not good, just last night I spent close to 3 hours (EU Prime time) flying around Great Wildlands, Scalding Pass, Wicked Creek and Detorid on an alt looking for Ghost Sites.
The most amount of people I saw in one system was 11. Most system were empty. I must of found at least 15 systems were there were over 15 cosmic anomalies.
I used to live in this area a just over a year ago and to fly around like I did and see as a few people as I did was just unthinkable.
Again I am not saying Eve is dying but neither would I say Eve is doing well, I suppose stagnating is the best word to describe Eve at the moment.
DO I have any faith in Eve's management to turn things around, well after what I have read over the last few days and CCP history, I am sorry to say no I do not.
I hope I am wrong, I hope in 12 months I can look bad and think lol, "I thought Eve was in trouble, what an idiot", but I don't think I will be doing. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4976
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 06:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey Guys,
As some of you may have heard today, thereGÇÖs been reports of job cuts here at CCP in the gaming media. As part of our strategy to focus on the EVE Universe, today we conducted a restructuring that resulted in the layoff of 49 people in our publishing organization.
This has been a really tough decision for us to make, and though itGÇÖs hard to say goodbye to our friends and family, this action concludes the process we started several months ago to restructure CCP.
CCP has provided severance packages and job placement assistance for all those employees who are affected, and we wish them all the best for the future.
In terms of what this means for our games, development teams and plans for EVE Online, EVE: Valkyrie, DUST 514, and GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ are not impacted by the restructuring that has taken place today.
If you'd like to discuss what's happened today, feel free to do so in this thread.
Thanks,
- F
I take it your still around then, or you would not be posting.
"Because of Falcon" lives on....
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4976
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 06:36:00 -
[104] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Also, aw, crap. I heard that Eterne's going. :/
As a lorehound and RPer, this one stings a bit. :/ It may not be the development team, but even one lore-focused CCPer nets a lot of return for those of us who want a living, breathing world to play in.
I have a bad feeling the lore and live events element is going to suffer greatly.
And I must say, the "DropBear era of Live Events" will be remembered as the best and most epic time for live events. I think DropBear can write a book on "how to do it" and other MMOs could take that advice well. In a way, looking at the past covered in the linked articles, if we were wondering "what happened to live events", now we know what happened.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Othran
Route One
723
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 07:03:00 -
[105] - Quote
The Guardian article is spot on the money - its a description of a Scandinavian management culture which permits no dissent or criticism of management, and like the vast majority of Scandinavian companies that culture fails once they expand beyond their own country.
Critical design reviews at CCP must be rather unique - "Any problems or are we all :awesome: ?".... "No problems boss everything is :awesome: "....
Oh and I totally agree with the comments regarding Eve stagnating - it is in fact dying but very very slowly. I doubt it'll be around for the 15th anniversary - & I very much doubt CCP will be around then either. I hope I'm wrong but the fact they're spending more money on Dust (which is always going to be crap compared to other shooters) indicates that very little has changed within CCP. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3713
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 07:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
Let's just hope they didn't get rid of all the talent and are left with a empty shell of sycophants and yes-men that 'appeased' management enough to get skipped in the lay-offs. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
363
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 07:32:00 -
[107] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Let's just hope they didn't get rid of all the talent and are left with a empty shell of sycophants and yes-men that 'appeased' management enough to get skipped in the lay-offs. Sadly, that is how it tends to go. The ones who have the skills tend to go, leaving behind the ones who cannot go (either due to out of work reasons like being unable to move after a job, or because no one else would hire them). Whether that happens to CCP, depends on how well the management can handle the situation. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
272
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 08:02:00 -
[108] - Quote
I want to interject here and say that after 5 years I feel that EVE as a game is the best it's ever been. The long term damage that's surfacing now is a combination of too many years of neglect, people over-invested in the prebalance status quo and a lack of work being done on ways to make money in an engaging way.
The game is going to feel a bit homogenised at the end of rebalancing because it HAS to. Chess as a game has barely changed in hundreds of years and we accept it for what it is because it's internally very balanced (aside from obvious constraints and the fact that its turn based). EVE by comparison still allows for hundreds of possibilities on the field with obviously winning doctrines today being more than a manner of just cost efficiency or unbalanced modules. The fact that CFC switched from baltec to wrecking ball to omega fleet in a short time frame shows just how dynamic it can be.
The game survived for far too long on jesus-features and as was correctly predicted started to collapse under its own weight. It was a game built on unstable foundations and had too much crap hanging off the walls, EVE in 2009 was doomed to failure and managerial systems deciding on introducing crap like monocles was just the last straw.
Maybe CCP grew far too bloated, paying far too many people for sub-par products that were barely functional. Why is it then that a project like Valkyrie was able to inspire so much interest? I don't know who used to work there compared to who still does but I find it credulous at best your desire to state the game is dying just because people are leaving/being terminated. WW clearly hadn't done anything productive in what, 7 years? I would have axed them a long time ago.
I'm tired of seeing these same old arguments and points being thrown around. CCPs most major flaw since the beginning was that it has been mismanaged. The game is a good concept and its only recently that the true qualities it espouses are being brought out. WoW makes headlines for having subscriber counts, EVE makes headlines for activities its playerbase makes. Flash-in-pan MMOs are everywhere and people gobble them up but EVE endures due to imo a combination of the mysticism it inspires through its complexity and the very tangible sense of success we feel from risking something with real-world value in combat and winning.
I hope CCP continues to soul-search and prioritise fixing EVE before it throws too much money against the stiffer competition it will face in getting LEGION on its feet. EVE is an organism with so much potential still unrealised after an entire decade and can still live on despite this. Shedding some fat and getting bled a little will make them a leaner and meaner company no longer content on just passively raking in cash before being ganked like the PI haulers we love to toy with in game.
And I say this from the perspective of someone who plays probably less than 2hrs a day. EVE is special to me because it has a promise just not found inside other MMOs. LP store weapon cost rebalance |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1927
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 08:07:00 -
[109] - Quote
What I find really funny is that fragment about fiction people writing Hilmar's apology.
Fiction.
Like normal PR guys weren't able to muster enough brain power to write anything for him that would sound good enough. And we all know PR spin doctors are usually masters of bullsh!t. And they couldn't do it so some poor dude got rip out of his usual making-geeks-wet fantasy writing routine to write CEO's letter to community.
It's not that CEOs are writing their speeches/announcements/press releases themselves and Hilmar got it done by somebody.
FICTION, for frakk sake!
I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Sato Page
BLOOGDORY
126
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:29:00 -
[110] - Quote
EvE is dying. Gäó -« Dinsdale Pirannha for CEO of CCP |
|
Marc Durant
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:29:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:In terms of what this means for our games, development teams and plans for EVE Online, EVE: Valkyrie, DUST 514, and GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ are not impacted by the restructuring that has taken place today.
Xhagen laid off.... XHAGEN....
Tell us how that does not impact EVE.
|
Dave Stark
6209
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
I was informed that CCP Eterne was one of those unfortunate 49.
Who do i have to bribe now in order to retain my forum posting ability? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10315
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:35:00 -
[113] - Quote
Marc Durant wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:In terms of what this means for our games, development teams and plans for EVE Online, EVE: Valkyrie, DUST 514, and GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ are not impacted by the restructuring that has taken place today. Xhagen laid off.... XHAGEN.... Tell us how that does not impact EVE. It's that which really changed my mind about this whole thing. Now I'm good and angry. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2968
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:39:00 -
[114] - Quote
This thread needs more ..... pssshhhhh
and CCP needs better management, but that's not exactly surprising to most of us. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22371
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:43:00 -
[115] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:This thread needs more ..... pssshhhhh I'm trying, dammit. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10316
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:43:00 -
[116] - Quote
I mean what ******* company praises one of their most valuable and loyal employees in publicly and NOT ONE MONTH LATER lays him off with 48 others and pretends this has no impact on said employee's area of focus?
All of my previous posts in this thread are just denial. I didn't want to believe that things were as bad as they are. But CCP Xhagen, for ****'s sake. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Batachi Khan
Millard Innovation Inc The 20 Minuters
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:45:00 -
[117] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I mean what ******* company praises one of their most valuable and loyal employees in publicly and NOT ONE MONTH LATER lays him off with 48 others and pretends this has no impact on said employee's area of focus?
All of my previous posts in this thread are just denial. I didn't want to believe that things were as bad as they are. But CCP Xhagen, for ****'s sake.
Indeed, leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. And that it won't influence development is a bunch of crap ofc . |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2968
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:46:00 -
[118] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I mean what ******* company praises one of their most valuable and loyal employees in publicly and NOT ONE MONTH LATER lays him off with 48 others and pretends this has no impact on said employee's area of focus?
All of my previous posts in this thread are just denial. I didn't want to believe that things were as bad as they are. But CCP Xhagen, for ****'s sake.
Better to lay off the talented people who can actually do things of value than to get rid of the people who mismanaged everything and caused the issues. Managers are pssshhhh as heck. Can't get rid of that psssshhh, son |
Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
222
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:46:00 -
[119] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Felicity Love wrote:Very disappointed in CCP over this. VERY. After the entire Ishukone Scorpion/BLINK debacle I vowed to never pay CCP another penny of my hard earned money and this article makes me very happy I made that decision.
This. This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3715
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:47:00 -
[120] - Quote
EA buyout in 3... 2... 1... Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
|
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1983
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
As someone who has been around long enough and watched how CCP does things, this really isn't a surprise at all.
Watching CCP over the years has been like watching a train slowly derail. CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-á/ Dynamic New Eden |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 09:55:00 -
[122] - Quote
Psssshhhhhh! |
Felicity Love
It Was the Year 3030
1874
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:02:00 -
[123] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Let's just hope they didn't get rid of all the talent and are left with a empty shell of sycophants and yes-men that 'appeased' management enough to get skipped in the lay-offs.
These cost less so, yeah, be afraid.
"Psssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh" -á-- That ambiguous and pseudo-technical term used by management to describe to staff how frakking cool something looks inside their own heads.
|
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
1238
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:02:00 -
[124] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:I was informed that CCP Eterne was one of those unfortunate 49.
Who do i have to bribe now in order to retain my forum posting ability?
Do I need a new signature then? Falcon I rely on you to post something containing boobs. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
|
Alayna Le'line
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Oh my ******* god, you people. Stop acting like this is the first time a software company has ever done this.
I don't even work in the industry (yet) and I know full well to expect this kind of thing from pretty much anywhere I'd go. Nothing about the linked article surprises me either.
It might be typical in the gaming industry (at least for the big companies), but don't conflate the gaming industry with the rest of the software industry. The problem with the gaming industry is that it looks like a dream job to many, so they'll take loads more abuse than they would otherwise.
Also, CCP Eterne and CCP Xhagen. (and who knows who else?) The end is nigh :( |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1218
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:17:00 -
[126] - Quote
The people responsible for the WoD failure get to keep their jobs, and the people in "publishing" lose their jobs?. It's really surprising, when you consider who decided that would be the best course of action.
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Domania
Rooks Inc.
30
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:20:00 -
[127] - Quote
Pine Marten wrote:Psssshhhhhh!
Needs a little more... Psssssshhhhhhh... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10321
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:20:00 -
[128] - Quote
Alayna Le'line wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Oh my ******* god, you people. Stop acting like this is the first time a software company has ever done this.
I don't even work in the industry (yet) and I know full well to expect this kind of thing from pretty much anywhere I'd go. Nothing about the linked article surprises me either. It might be typical in the gaming industry (at least for the big companies), but don't conflate the gaming industry with the rest of the software industry. The problem with the gaming industry is that it looks like a dream job to many, so they'll take loads more abuse than they would otherwise. Also, CCP Eterne and CCP Xhagen. (and who knows who else?) The end is nigh :( You can keep that post as an example of denialism. I've since changed my mind about this whole thing. I'm pretty upset about it. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1115
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:23:00 -
[129] - Quote
Strange that one of the dev's laid off was the the same one in the CCP Developer Spotlight less than a month ago on May 15th. :/ |
Alayna Le'line
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:24:00 -
[130] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Alayna Le'line wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Oh my ******* god, you people. Stop acting like this is the first time a software company has ever done this.
I don't even work in the industry (yet) and I know full well to expect this kind of thing from pretty much anywhere I'd go. Nothing about the linked article surprises me either. It might be typical in the gaming industry (at least for the big companies), but don't conflate the gaming industry with the rest of the software industry. The problem with the gaming industry is that it looks like a dream job to many, so they'll take loads more abuse than they would otherwise. Also, CCP Eterne and CCP Xhagen. (and who knows who else?) The end is nigh :( You can keep that post as an example of denialism. I've since changed my mind about this whole thing. I'm pretty upset about it.
As are well all, I'm sure :( I'd be very very interested in what they have to say about the guardian article.
And I bitterly wonder who's going to write the apology now that it appears they've kicked out most of their fiction writers... |
|
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5197
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:28:00 -
[131] - Quote
They have laid off some really great people from CCP, yet the abysmal ones remain unsurprisingly. I'm going to safely assume that Mr Pssshhhh still works for CCP. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Prince Kobol
1913
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:32:00 -
[132] - Quote
I expect the same response from CCP as we got regarding Somergate
This ^^
|
Lisa Gentilette
The Scope Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:39:00 -
[133] - Quote
Themanfromdalmontee wrote:Pj Harvey wrote:I was wondering myself the last few weeks after coming back from an extended absence, how everything in eve is has been 'adjusted' to be 2x to 4x the price. When I left a bs was 60 mil, a mindlink was 5 mil and a cruiser was 4 mil. It seems CCP have been artificially raising in-game prices to sell PLEX because they need to milk eve as much as possible for other projects. No this will not be the case (other than increasing costs of minerals when they rebalanced the ships so they are all useful) and CCP would want lower plex prices so people have to buy more plex to sell to get a certain amount of money....
Someone blogged recently about garage sales and most people failing at them. In short, people overprice items and get stuck with them, if however they would put a significant lower price tag on their items for sale they will sell a whole lot more.
CCP never will understand this, as shown by the pricing for customised ship hulls. No-one will buy them when they're going to be high cost frequent losses. Which is why vanity clothing items are indestructible.
As per usual CCP never learns. >.< |
Mag's
the united
17347
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:43:00 -
[134] - Quote
I wonder if the ones that made tooltips are going? I highly doubt it, we need those types to fix things that are not broken.
Poorly run company, is poorly run.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3715
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:50:00 -
[135] - Quote
Whenever a project fails the management should be the first to get the axe. It's their responsibility to make the project work, it's the sole reason they are even paid. If the project fails, it's their failure for one reason or another. They can't even blame the other staff for it because it's the management that hires and motivates the staff. Having those failures bounce from project to project, company to company and ******* one up after another seems to be epidemic in the games industry. I just can't wrap my head around how such incompetence can be tolerated. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:54:00 -
[136] - Quote
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22371
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 10:55:00 -
[137] - Quote
Domania wrote:Pine Marten wrote:Psssshhhhhh! Needs a little more... Psssssshhhhhhh... Ok. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1115
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:00:00 -
[138] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Domania wrote:Pine Marten wrote:Psssshhhhhh! Needs a little more... Psssssshhhhhhh... Ok.
Ok where the hell did this meme come from and when? :P |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22371
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:03:00 -
[139] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Ok where the hell did this meme come from and when? :P GÇ£MemeGÇ¥ is a bit much, at least yet. It comes from the Guardian article on WoD, about Gàô through. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
547
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:04:00 -
[140] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: You can keep that post as an example of denialism. I've since changed my mind about this whole thing. I'm pretty upset about it.
I think it may be safe to assume that the June Financials will be very bad. I'd also like apologies, or isk, from those you you who said I was off my rocker about how things were going at CCP.
A lot of you mocked me, but I think that this latest round of layoffs shows that I most likely nailed it on the head when I called it back in April. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10323
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:11:00 -
[141] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it may be safe to assume that the June Financials will be very bad. CCP can still sell WoD IP. That's probably what they're going to do. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Noriko Mai
1376
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:11:00 -
[142] - Quote
But they still have the 'The world is a Microtransaction' EA guy, right? He will save CCP, right? |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3717
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:13:00 -
[143] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it may be safe to assume that the June Financials will be very bad. CCP can still sell WoD IP. That's probably what they're going to do. Maybe CDPR buys it. Would fit into their portfolio. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10323
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:15:00 -
[144] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it may be safe to assume that the June Financials will be very bad. CCP can still sell WoD IP. That's probably what they're going to do. Maybe CDPR buys it. Would fit into their portfolio. The California Department of Pesticide Regulation? No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1115
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:16:00 -
[145] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Abrazzar wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it may be safe to assume that the June Financials will be very bad. CCP can still sell WoD IP. That's probably what they're going to do. Maybe CDPR buys it. Would fit into their portfolio. The California Department of Pesticide Regulation?
Exactly! |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
547
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:16:00 -
[146] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: CCP can still sell WoD IP. That's probably what they're going to do.
That might turn them around for the End of Year, assuming they find a buyer, but WoD isn't what it used to be, and even very profitable IPs don't always carry big pricetags, particularly if they know you're in trouble and can just wait to pick up the rights in bankruptcy for a song. It's what Sega did with THQ.
They bought Relics entire portfolio for 20m.
Fantasy Flight Games, of the currently alive TT game companies, would be my bet, and frankly their bid would be low. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22372
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:16:00 -
[147] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Maybe CDPR buys it. Would fit into their portfolio. The California Department of Pesticide Regulation? Seems appropriate enough. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1115
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:18:00 -
[148] - Quote
I know I say it during every crisis..... But I really wish Curzon was around to write a song about this. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2063
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:21:00 -
[149] - Quote
Wow, people are surprised by the fact that higher uppers have writers?
People probably think politicians speak freely too, hu?
Common sense. What? Never heard of it? The case of the bottomless dress. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499 |
Ospie
Impulsive Core
20
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:23:00 -
[150] - Quote
Just signing in to say that I'm disappointed with this news, I'm sad to see these guys go, I wish them all the very best of luck.
CCP, you need to get your **** together. I love the devs and their interaction with us both through the game itself, forums, and the likes of fanfest, I don't want to see anything to happen to them, however the management seems to need a shake down from the top.. Especially the top.
I would rather have CCP keep their employees than see further development on dust and the like, at least until their management starts earning its keep. |
|
Xonus Calimar
CaeIum Incognitum
19
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:27:00 -
[151] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:EA buyout in 3... 2... 1...
Oh God, don't even joke about that.
|
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1115
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:31:00 -
[152] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Wow, people are surprised by the fact that higher uppers have writers?
People probably think politicians speak freely too, hu?
Common sense. What? Never heard of it?
I don't see this the same way... It was written in a personal soul searching sort of way. If that makes any sense. I can't think of another way to describe it. Especially due to what was happening at the time when this was written to diffuse the entire situation.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2672 |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1983
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:31:00 -
[153] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it may be safe to assume that the June Financials will be very bad. CCP can still sell WoD IP. That's probably what they're going to do.
Doubt there would be many potential buyers. The WoD IP isn't what I would consider to have a large market for.
They could however license out the Carbon Engine, I'm sure they will lure more suckers into buying that then the IP.
CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-á/ Dynamic New Eden |
Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
3948
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:38:00 -
[154] - Quote
Why are people raging about the internal wranglings off a company.
We are not privi to info available to those that make decisions so stop pretending you know what is a good for a company based on 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand info.
EDIT:
I forgot this is EVE. Where the majority of the player base has entitlement issues. "Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2063
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:40:00 -
[155] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Wow, people are surprised by the fact that higher uppers have writers?
People probably think politicians speak freely too, hu?
Common sense. What? Never heard of it? I don't see this the same way... It was written in a personal soul searching sort of way. If that makes any sense. I can't think of another way to describe it. Especially due to what was happening at the time when this was written to diffuse the entire situation. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2672 It does not matter how you see it. Pretty much everyone out there who speaks in public has a writer. There is no surprise here, except the lack of common sense of people.
This just proves once more how gullible people are. The case of the bottomless dress. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499 |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1930
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:48:00 -
[156] - Quote
Apology letter written by fiction department. FICTION. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1281
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 11:54:00 -
[157] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Tippia wrote:Domania wrote:Pine Marten wrote:Psssshhhhhh! Needs a little more... Psssssshhhhhhh... Ok. Ok where the hell did this meme come from and when? :P
I like it. It has a certain je ne sais quoi about it. The onomatopoeia is portentous as well, as all that money was ultimately pissed up the wall. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
547
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:02:00 -
[158] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote: We are not privi to info available to those that make decisions so stop pretending you know what is a good for a company based on 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand info..
Point of fact, you can read the investor reports and six month financials and get the info first hand. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
480
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:11:00 -
[159] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Why are people raging about the internal wranglings off a company.
We are not privi to info available to those that make decisions so stop pretending you know what is a good for a company based on 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand info. I fully agree with Kane here, though it is a pretty unavoidable side effect of a Community that cares about the game and the people behind it.
I do find it amusing how people are easily fooled by simple journalistic tricks such as this one:
Eventually CEO Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson issued an apology to the players. But even this short appeasement wasnGÇÖt what it seemed; according to Blood, Petursson didnGÇÖt actually write it.
GÇ£He had members of our storyline team GÇô a group responsible for writing in-game content and fiction GÇô put it together,GÇ¥ he says. GÇ£He was either so out of touch, so arrogant, or perhaps both, that he couldnGÇÖt find the words to say himself. They bailed him out big time.GÇ¥
The Guardian couldn't honestly accuse Mr. Petursson of being out of touch and/or arrogant, so they let Mr. Blood do it instead! While providing objectively weak but 'sensational' evidence about it.
Truth is, very few people actually know if Mr. Petursson was really arrogant or, on the contrary, humble enough to seek expert help in wording his own, heartfelt, thoughts on a matter of significant importance to the company he leads. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22378
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:19:00 -
[160] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:The Guardian couldn't honestly accuse Mr. Petursson of being out of touch and/or arrogant, so they let Mr. Blood do it instead! While providing objectively weak but 'sensational' evidence about it. How else would they have done it and still be journalists rather than CCP employees? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1115
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:21:00 -
[161] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Why are people raging about the internal wranglings off a company.
We are not privi to info available to those that make decisions so stop pretending you know what is a good for a company based on 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand info. I fully agree with Kane here, though it is a pretty unavoidable side effect of a Community that cares about the game and the people behind it. I do find it amusing how people are easily fooled by simple journalistic tricks such as this one: Eventually CEO Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson issued an apology to the players. But even this short appeasement wasnGÇÖt what it seemed; according to Blood, Petursson didnGÇÖt actually write it.
GÇ£He had members of our storyline team GÇô a group responsible for writing in-game content and fiction GÇô put it together,GÇ¥ he says. GÇ£He was either so out of touch, so arrogant, or perhaps both, that he couldnGÇÖt find the words to say himself. They bailed him out big time.GÇ¥The Guardian couldn't honestly accuse Mr. Petursson of being out of touch and/or arrogant, so they let Mr. Blood do it instead! While providing objectively weak but 'sensational' evidence about it. Truth is, very few people actually know if Mr. Petursson was really arrogant or, on the contrary, humble enough to seek expert help in wording his own, heartfelt, thoughts on a matter of significant importance to the company he leads.
I think they are likely predisposed to feeling he is arrogant or whatever from what has happened in the past prior to this point. The greed is good leak for example. Or the later interviews after that whole thing.
Is saying he is Arrogant justified from those factors? I have no idea, but they may think so. |
Nami Kumamato
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
182
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:27:00 -
[162] - Quote
CCP is first and foremost a company -deal with it. Second their product occupies a niche in the market - therefore not insane profit. Although I'm not seeing " EVE is dying!" - seeing the moves from their part in recent months it looks like they are shifting back to the small-team structure. Which is a very good plan. They should reduce their efforts to EVE, EVE: Valkyrie and EVE: Legion, trying to create a centralized system. CCP has spread too much for a company that get's it's profits 90% out of a subscription. If EVE: Valkyrie and EVE: Legion have at least moderate success 49 people will get a job at CCP.
If the subscription fee will go up THEN you can start shitting your pants.
"And now my ship is oh so cloaked and fit It never felt so good, I never felt so hid" - Ramona McCandless, Untitled |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2432
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:28:00 -
[163] - Quote
Eve Online as a 'game' may be doing okay, but one has to wonder how well or not, CCP as a company is doing.
The good folk from CCP simply posting that they are' super excited' in support of each other in the forums with each new addition to the game, (loot spew for example) is not the same thing as getting approval from us, you know, the folk who pay their wages.
I have played Eve Online for quite some time now and I really want CCP to be successful, for them, because it pays their wages, and for us so we have a good game to spend money on and play.
Between staff leaving and layoffs, reading the tea leaves, it all seems a bit worrying right now. This is not a signature. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5201
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:32:00 -
[164] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Why are people raging about the internal wranglings off a company.
We are not privi to info available to those that make decisions so stop pretending you know what is a good for a company based on 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand info.
EDIT:
I forgot this is EVE. Where the majority of the player base has entitlement issues.
Gee, go & declare war on a 2-day old newbie over it why don't you. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Steve Celeste
Overdogs
286
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:32:00 -
[165] - Quote
Don't layoff my boot.ini please. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
481
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:39:00 -
[166] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:The Guardian couldn't honestly accuse Mr. Petursson of being out of touch and/or arrogant, so they let Mr. Blood do it instead! While providing objectively weak but 'sensational' evidence about it. How else would they have done it and still be journalists rather than CCP employees? The TL;DR of The Guardian's article is: 'WoD was not flawlessly managed'. Which we already know, else in all probability it wouldn't have been cancelled after 9 years and a good bunch of people would still have thier jobs.
The rest, including the 'apology letter' story is just sensationalism, which I agree with you that is many journalists' bread and butter, but I don't really find it interesting. |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1983
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:49:00 -
[167] - Quote
Nami Kumamato wrote:CCP is first and foremost a company -deal with it. Second their product occupies a niche in the market - therefore not insane profit. Although I'm not seeing " EVE is dying!" - seeing the moves from their part in recent months it looks like they are shifting back to the small-team structure. Which is a very good plan. They should reduce their efforts to EVE, EVE: Valkyrie and EVE: Legion, trying to create a centralized system. CCP has spread too much for a company that get's it's profits 90% out of a subscription. If EVE: Valkyrie and EVE: Legion have at least moderate success 49 people will get a job at CCP.
If the subscription fee will go up THEN you can start shitting your pants.
You contradict yourself and the fact that they are going down the same road that lead them into this mess.
You say that CCP should focus solely on Eve, Valkyrie, Legion, at the same time not spread themselves thin. Yet even before the layoffs they were spread thin with Eve, Dust, WoD. CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-á/ Dynamic New Eden |
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2207
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:50:00 -
[168] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:At least CCP is nice enough to hold job fairs and bring out recruiters for their employees so they find jobs immediately, and the transition is almost seamless. Wow. So clueless. Or possibly a manager trying to slap on the mental salve? At least 2-3 months of salary will hit the ashcan from this disruption in their lives. Real estate investments trashed. Worse, the mental trauma for them, their SO's and the kids from being ripped out of from social groups, schools, and functions. You're admiring CCP for being "nice"?? CCP's doing what it absolutely should be doing to minimize the pain caused by upper management's continuing series of mistakes. The only saving grace would be that upper management was also be properly being held accountable for those decisions, but that ivory tower is packing super high resists.
Nerf Ivory towers ?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2207
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:52:00 -
[169] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:I expect the same response from CCP as we got regarding Somergate
This ^^
The fiction team is still working on the oficiall response ...
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
481
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:55:00 -
[170] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:they are going down the same road that lead them into this mess.
You say that CCP should focus solely on Eve, Valkyrie, Legion, at the same time not spread themselves thin. Yet even before the layoffs they were spread thin with Eve, Dust, WoD. I'm not a gaming industry expert, but with Legion being a PC 'port' of an existing game (instead of an entirely new game on a different platform) and Valkyrie seeming - to me at least - a less ambitious project than WoD, they do seem to be focussing more.
Also, the 'one universe' could greatly help cross-selling, on the revenue side.
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22385
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 12:57:00 -
[171] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:The TL;DR of The Guardian's article is: 'WoD was not flawlessly managed'. Which we already know, else in all probability it wouldn't have been cancelled after 9 years and a good bunch of people would still have thier jobs.
The rest, including the 'apology letter' story is just sensationalism, which I agree with you that is many journalists' bread and butter, but I don't really find it interesting. On the other hand, it's a great quote. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 13:06:00 -
[172] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Domania wrote:Pine Marten wrote:Psssshhhhhh! Needs a little more... Psssssshhhhhhh... Ok.
Just this....
...with all respect. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
482
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 13:11:00 -
[173] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:...with all respect. Except that isn't very respectful, come on. Let's not ruin the hilarious Psssshhhh meme. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6468
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 13:12:00 -
[174] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Apology letter written by fiction department. FICTION. So they might have used the people in their company who are the best writers to help with the most important public letter in the history of the company. Shocking.
As always my discontent level goes up and down with the quality and direction of the game. If the game continues to deliver, I don't care too much how it's being delivered to us. If their actions threaten to ruin it, I don't care if CCP is the bestest company ever and a dream job in the industry. Therefore I'm largely unfazed by this.For years CCP has been plagued with taking on projects they've been unprepared to handle. Now they're admitting the reality and doing the needed pruning. It's not fun for anyone and it can be hard to see misfortune happen to familiar faces, but that's the nature of restructuring.
About the management issues, I've talked to a lot of people about their jobs and the number of people not complaining about incompetent and out-of-touch managers is currently zero. Doesn't mean it's a good thing or something you don't need to address at some point, but it's nothing special either.
|
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1115
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 13:15:00 -
[175] - Quote
On the bright side, Orange is the new black season 2 was finally released on Netflix. |
Naomi Hale
272
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 13:27:00 -
[176] - Quote
Reading the Gurdian article, not really sure you can think of CCP as the black sheep of game developement.
I used to share an office with a guy, he was designing the lead character for a game. He'd done dozens of facial concepts at the behest of the game's director, change the jaw line, different eyebrows, that sort of thing. One day, after weeks of work, the director comes in looks at the concepts and says "Make him look more edgy!" The guy ask what he meant by "edgy" to which the director simply replied "you know, Edgy!" and walked off.
This director had one other game under his belt (a poorly received one), dozens of complaints against him and people had left the company over having to work with him yet management kept him on, I never found out why. Company went bust about four years later.
My point (if there is one) is that management in games companies never seems to explain themselves to the rank and file, which leads to resentment over how thngs are run. It's not just CCP. I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3115
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 13:33:00 -
[177] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:Temporarily locked for some cleanup.
Okay, false alarm. Removed a post for rumor mongering and attacks against a CCP employee. Thread unlocked.
Are there many left to rage against? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:11:00 -
[178] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:Temporarily locked for some cleanup.
Okay, false alarm. Removed a post for rumor mongering and attacks against a CCP employee. Thread unlocked.
Are there many left to rage against?
|
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1931
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:12:00 -
[179] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Apology letter written by fiction department. FICTION. So they might have used the people in their company who are the best writers to help with the most important public letter in the history of the company. Shocking.
My wife is better than me at cleaning so I use her help to clean my code.
I don't care about layoffs and whatever internal turmoil is going on at CCP. I pay for a game and as long as they deliver they can sacrifice baby seals to gods of north and I wouldn't care.
All I find it funny is that one simple letter had to be created by fiction department not by PR people. Think about it, a guy who wrote those little pieces of text for ships descriptions or mission briefings or whatever else lore entails in-game might have been same dude who wrote this "I feel you pain and share your tears so i will be good boy now" letter.
For me that's hilarious. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
XxRTEKxX
That Escalated Quickly Nerfed Alliance Go Away
132
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:18:00 -
[180] - Quote
I dont pay much attention to who is who in CCP. However, if ccp still has the same CEO who was CEO back during Incarna, then there is something seriously wrong at CCP. That CEO should have stepped down a long time ago and someome else should be at the helm. |
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
483
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:20:00 -
[181] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:For me that's hilarious. Indeed it would be if that was really the exact truth.
But it just as easily could have been the CEO writing it himself, then asking both the PR guy and a good writer from the fiction department to have a look, then maybe changing a sentence or a couple of words.
Years later, it becomes 'the fiction department writing the letter' in an online news article. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1932
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:25:00 -
[182] - Quote
Oh, we don't and won't ever know who wrote it but that's not the point of interwebz nerdrage. Stop making sense and let me enjoy those moment filled with vile emotions! I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22389
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:34:00 -
[183] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Oh, we don't and won't ever know who wrote it but that's not the point of interwebz nerdrage. Stop making sense and let me enjoy those moment filled with vile emotions! You know what those moments need? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
483
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:36:00 -
[184] - Quote
Tippia, since you're usually fairly serious, I find your cheerful enjoyment of Psssshhhh memes hilarious!
Please post moar! |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2969
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:37:00 -
[185] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Wow, people are surprised by the fact that higher uppers have writers?
People probably think politicians speak freely too, hu?
Common sense. What? Never heard of it?
It's common for a PR person or team to help shape a statement for someone, it's incredibly unusual to pull lore/ingame-text/fiction writers off their work to come up with that kind of thing though. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
483
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:40:00 -
[186] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:it's incredibly unusual to pull lore/ingame-text/fiction writers off their work to come up with that kind of thing though. Maybe they were originally scheduled to write lore about some new monocle, so suddenly they had some time to spare. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22389
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:41:00 -
[187] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Tippia, since you're usually fairly serious, I find your cheerful enjoyment of Psssshhhh memes hilarious! Please post moar! Well, on a more serious note, and talking more to the large number of people being hit by thisGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Anathema Device
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:47:00 -
[188] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:As someone who has been around long enough and watched how CCP does things, this really isn't a surprise at all.
Watching CCP over the years has been like watching a train slowly derail. That is too harsh. Over the years CCP have provided you with more than one train wreck to watch.
CCP does deserve praise for continual improvement to EVE over the years. They didn't sit back and basically freeze development like Anarchy Online to fund development of another game system. EVE Industry plus Trading does need to be overhauled which may provide another train wreck for your entertainment.
The bit of the Guardian story I wondered about was the White Wolf staff that were used as temporary developers for EVE. Next crisis hits and that pool of talent is no longer available.
CCP should have said how many people had been redeployed within the company. I've been through company restructures, downsizing and redundancy. Last couple of times when my teams were made redundant I stayed at the company in another role without loss of pay or benefits. It looks a lot better if the company can say the redundancies were unavoidable, x number of employees were redeployed, y number left voluntarily and the company had no choice for the z number of staff. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2970
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:51:00 -
[189] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:Reading the Gurdian article, not really sure you can think of CCP as the black sheep of game developement.
I used to share an office with a guy, he was designing the lead character for a game. He'd done dozens of facial concepts at the behest of the game's director, change the jaw line, different eyebrows, that sort of thing. One day, after weeks of work, the director comes in looks at the concepts and says "Make him look more edgy!" The guy ask what he meant by "edgy" to which the director simply replied "you know, Edgy!" and walked off.
This director had one other game under his belt (a poorly received one), dozens of complaints against him and people had left the company over having to work with him yet management kept him on, I never found out why. Company went bust about four years later.
My point (if there is one) is that management in games companies never seems to explain themselves to the rank and file, which leads to resentment over how thngs are run. It's not just CCP.
Anyone in any part of the tech industry will know someone like Mr Psssshhh or Mr "you know, Edgy!". They're always non-tech-y people, whether they're higher levels of management, or sales people, or whatever. They throw around and demand the vaguest of buzzwords and then vanish or go silent when someone asks for some specifics or clarity.
Then when it hits the fan, they're kept on while the techies are booted, because vague buzzwords and platitudes sound more impressive to the big bosses than the tech people asking for specifics, clarifications, etc.
This short sketch is all too real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1116
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 14:58:00 -
[190] - Quote
XxRTEKxX wrote:I dont pay much attention to who is who in CCP. However, if ccp still has the same CEO who was CEO back during Incarna, then there is something seriously wrong at CCP. That CEO should have stepped down a long time ago and someome else should be at the helm.
Same guy at the top indeed. |
|
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1116
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:01:00 -
[191] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Naomi Hale wrote:Reading the Gurdian article, not really sure you can think of CCP as the black sheep of game developement.
I used to share an office with a guy, he was designing the lead character for a game. He'd done dozens of facial concepts at the behest of the game's director, change the jaw line, different eyebrows, that sort of thing. One day, after weeks of work, the director comes in looks at the concepts and says "Make him look more edgy!" The guy ask what he meant by "edgy" to which the director simply replied "you know, Edgy!" and walked off.
This director had one other game under his belt (a poorly received one), dozens of complaints against him and people had left the company over having to work with him yet management kept him on, I never found out why. Company went bust about four years later.
My point (if there is one) is that management in games companies never seems to explain themselves to the rank and file, which leads to resentment over how thngs are run. It's not just CCP. Anyone in any part of the tech industry will know someone like Mr Psssshhh or Mr "you know, Edgy!". They're always non-tech-y people, whether they're higher levels of management, or sales people, or whatever. They throw around and demand the vaguest of buzzwords and then vanish or go silent when someone asks for some specifics or clarity. Then when it hits the fan, they're kept on while the techies are booted, because vague buzzwords and platitudes sound more impressive to the big bosses than the tech people asking for specifics, clarifications, etc. This short sketch is all too real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
After Incarna it was the community reps and those sort of people that were let go. ;) Was a month + a week or so before Xmas if I remember correctly. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
485
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:01:00 -
[192] - Quote
That's just awesome. +1
|
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
208
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:02:00 -
[193] - Quote
Laying off CCP Xhagen certainly takes away some of the meaning of handing out those 10 year swords.
Did it get traded in for a gold watch?
Who is CCP going to find now with enough guts to fly across the theater at Harpa on flimsy wires? Senex Legio |
Alayna Le'line
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:03:00 -
[194] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it may be safe to assume that the June Financials will be very bad. CCP can still sell WoD IP. That's probably what they're going to do. Doubt there would be many potential buyers. The WoD IP isn't what I would consider to have a large market for. They could however license out the Carbon Engine, I'm sure they will lure more suckers into buying that then the IP.
Wouldn't mind if it went cheap, then maybe Obsidian can pick it up. I for one certainly wouldn't mind a worthy successor to Bloodlines. |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1116
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:05:00 -
[195] - Quote
Jake Rivers wrote:Laying off CCP Xhagen certainly takes away some of the meaning of handing out those 10 year swords.
Did it get traded in for a gold watch?
Who is CCP going to find now with enough guts to fly across the theater at Harpa on flimsy wires?
Watch... Nobody will want to earn the dev spotlight anymore. ;) Bad omens after the last one just got laid off less than a month later. ;) |
Alayna Le'line
99
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:09:00 -
[196] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Laying off CCP Xhagen certainly takes away some of the meaning of handing out those 10 year swords.
Did it get traded in for a gold watch?
Who is CCP going to find now with enough guts to fly across the theater at Harpa on flimsy wires? Watch... Nobody will want to earn the dev spotlight anymore. ;) Bad omens after the last one just got laid off less than a month later. ;)
No-one will want to write them anymore either, since the writer got laid off too! :P |
Alayna Le'line
99
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:09:00 -
[197] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Tippia wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:The Guardian couldn't honestly accuse Mr. Petursson of being out of touch and/or arrogant, so they let Mr. Blood do it instead! While providing objectively weak but 'sensational' evidence about it. How else would they have done it and still be journalists rather than CCP employees? The TL;DR of The Guardian's article is: 'WoD was not flawlessly managed'. Which we already know, else in all probability it wouldn't have been cancelled after 9 years and a good bunch of people would still have thier jobs. The rest, including the 'apology letter' story is just sensationalism, which I agree with you that is many journalists' bread and butter, but I don't really find it interesting.
I consider "not perfectly managed" to be quite the understatement if even half of what is in that article is true. |
Hevymetal
POT Corp Semper Ardens Alliance
325
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:15:00 -
[198] - Quote
o7
Here is wishing you all the best of luck. Thanks for what you did for all of us. |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
208
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:16:00 -
[199] - Quote
Alayna Le'line wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Laying off CCP Xhagen certainly takes away some of the meaning of handing out those 10 year swords.
Did it get traded in for a gold watch?
Who is CCP going to find now with enough guts to fly across the theater at Harpa on flimsy wires? Watch... Nobody will want to earn the dev spotlight anymore. ;) Bad omens after the last one just got laid off less than a month later. ;) No-one will want to write them anymore either, since the writer got laid off too! :P
Oh hell, I missed that part too, bleh. Senex Legio |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4980
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:20:00 -
[200] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:EA buyout in 3... 2... 1...
Bite your tongue! We will not speak of such horror here! Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
|
Strawberry Shortcake69
Hyperion Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:25:00 -
[201] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Abrazzar wrote:EA buyout in 3... 2... 1... Bite your tongue! We will not speak of such horror here!
The last time I said that to somebody they gave me a pppfffffttttttt response. EvE isn't dying but CCP sure is. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
485
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:28:00 -
[202] - Quote
Alayna Le'line wrote:I consider "not perfectly managed" to be quite the understatement if even half of what is in that article is true. Meh, the article described pretty common mistakes.
Companies succeed while making worse mistakes, and fail while doing most things right.
It's often pretty hard to judge even when you're inside the company. |
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2209
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:40:00 -
[203] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Naomi Hale wrote:Reading the Gurdian article, not really sure you can think of CCP as the black sheep of game developement.
I used to share an office with a guy, he was designing the lead character for a game. He'd done dozens of facial concepts at the behest of the game's director, change the jaw line, different eyebrows, that sort of thing. One day, after weeks of work, the director comes in looks at the concepts and says "Make him look more edgy!" The guy ask what he meant by "edgy" to which the director simply replied "you know, Edgy!" and walked off.
This director had one other game under his belt (a poorly received one), dozens of complaints against him and people had left the company over having to work with him yet management kept him on, I never found out why. Company went bust about four years later.
My point (if there is one) is that management in games companies never seems to explain themselves to the rank and file, which leads to resentment over how thngs are run. It's not just CCP. Anyone in any part of the tech industry will know someone like Mr Psssshhh or Mr "you know, Edgy!". They're always non-tech-y people, whether they're higher levels of management, or sales people, or whatever. They throw around and demand the vaguest of buzzwords and then vanish or go silent when someone asks for some specifics or clarity.
Then when it hits the fan, they're kept on while the techies are booted, because vague buzzwords and platitudes sound more impressive to the big bosses than the tech people asking for specifics, clarifications, etc. This short sketch is all too real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
If you think that only happends in the tech industry you're verry wrong.Every company big or small has a jackass knowitall who knows nothing and shouldn't even have a job to start with.
That said every company needs some PShhhhhhhhhhhh
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22396
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 15:51:00 -
[204] - Quote
flakeys wrote:If you think that only happends in the tech industry you're verry wrong.Every company big or small has a jackass knowitall who knows nothing and shouldn't even have a job to start with.
That said every company needs some PShhhhhhhhhhhh It's even a solid business model for some. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 16:02:00 -
[205] - Quote
So the employees that fled ccp to go to league of legends saw the writing on the wall huh? That was a bit ago too. |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1117
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 16:21:00 -
[206] - Quote
Pine Marten wrote:So the employees that fled ccp to go to league of legends saw the writing on the wall huh? That was a bit ago too.
There have been others that went to Riot since the ones you are talking about, and more recently. Though I was mostly sad about a select few of them. :( |
Alphea Abbra
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
767
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 16:39:00 -
[207] - Quote
I'm deeply disturbed by this, and the attempt to write it off as "in publishing" is horrifying. I hope CCP survives, but I think it would be better for you all if next time, layoffs happened in management.
Best of luck to those laid off. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
336
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 16:53:00 -
[208] - Quote
Not surprising. Acquiring WoD was a good move. And I would have played that game (and no I'm not a rp-er even though I'm currently in FW). WoD was something new and different like EVE.
But then they quickly jumped to make DUST. WTF Who really couldn't tell that that market was already flooded with products and that that gaming culture is not made of year over year loyalty? No surprise it is in the crapper already.
When they started **** canning people and projects at WoD for increased investment of dev hours and resources for DUST it was 180 degrees the wrong move. Now we have Valkyrie, and wtf is project Legion, sucking resources? I don't even know what Legion is. Doesn't matter.
Valkyrie and DUST are not projects ahead of the curve. WoD is/was. And there would be a sizable/loyal player base to draw on if it were even hallway decently playable.
And what management is greenlighting pet projects that aren't being demanded by the customer base? For example: nauseating gate jumps, annoying autoscanning, incredibly informative and not at all intrusive tooltips. What next will you forcefeed us thinking it somehow is improving the game?
Yes, management needs to cut its own pay and/or layoff itself. But that is now how capitalism works. So I suppose let the corporate death spiral begin. I'm sure the folks at the top will eek out a couple more years of bonus and stock option jackpots while continually laying off line workers and/or reducing their pay. Party on dudes CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
324
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 17:11:00 -
[209] - Quote
Nami Kumamato wrote:CCP is first and foremost a company -deal with it. Second their product occupies a niche in the market - therefore not insane profit. Although I'm not seeing " EVE is dying!" - seeing the moves from their part in recent months it looks like they are shifting back to the small-team structure. Which is a very good plan. They should reduce their efforts to EVE, EVE: Valkyrie and EVE: Legion, trying to create a centralized system. CCP has spread too much for a company that get's it's profits 90% out of a subscription. If EVE: Valkyrie and EVE: Legion have at least moderate success 49 people will get a job at CCP.
If the subscription fee will go up THEN you can start shitting your pants.
This.^^
And by the way, why is there so much hate towards CCP among the players in this thread? I really don't understand. If the reason for layoffs is true, and that is to focus strictly on development of EVE IP, that's completely OK. The company tried to spread focus but obviously bit slightly bigger bite than they can chew. Realizing that fact and switching dedication to products that do make money (and always have been) is a sign of a healthy company and certainly not the opposite. Companies that do fail are the ones that don't realize that they are shooting way over they heads without solid ground to back them up, which obviously isn't the case with CCP now.
But I understand that there is some sort of a sadistic desire by some of the forum trolls for CCP to fail. This can be seen even in every single new feature or change to the game that is introduced since Crucible. Every single feature or change had its own "Omg this is terrible. Revert this [insert insulting adjective] like right now!!11!!!", even for features that were long awaited and desired by a huge majority of players for years.
I have been in EVE since "Red Moon Rising" and have been following these forums and the community (EN24, TheMittani, Kugu, failheap, subreddits, player blogs,...) all the time and I can say that CCP bashing and these types of trolls were not that present before Incarna. After Incarna, it became FOTM to bash every step that CCP makes in or out of the game. This is allowed because CCP is one of the few companies that actually do care about your opinion as a customer and allows you to post any criticism including negative, especially since what happened in Incarna. This is abused to hell and back by some players to the point where it became ridiculous.
After Incarna and huge amount of negative feedback along with the big hit to CCP as a company, CCP has dedicated never to make the same mistake of not listening to player feedback again. The process of introduction of new features and changes is now: - Create a topic by a dev responsible for the changes in the "Features & ideas" discussion; - After feedback, come up with the working version of the feature/change and publish it in a devblog specifically stating that it's a WIP; - Gather more feedback in the devblog thread; - Refine the feature/change some more according to the feedback; - Publish new devblog if necessary; - Publish patch notes about the change and link both the F&I thread and devblog(s);
Is this the sign of "bad management"? Is this a sign of "bad state of CCP as a company"? Is this a sign of "CCP/EVE is dying"?
I don't think so.
And I don't even want to start talking about an article from "The Guardian". Credibility of articles in The Guardian is like credibility Kim Jong-il writing about western culture - they are partially true and can sound reasonable for brainwashed masses, but are ultimately written for their own interests and some details are over-amplified to make the whatever the point the author wanted. I'm not going deeper into politics, but politicians in the UK haven't yet gone over the way Iceland defended themselves from a banking fraud that was the cause of 2008. global economic crisis.
My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
364
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 18:11:00 -
[210] - Quote
Tippia wrote:flakeys wrote:If you think that only happends in the tech industry you're verry wrong.Every company big or small has a jackass knowitall who knows nothing and shouldn't even have a job to start with.
That said every company needs some PShhhhhhhhhhhh It's even a solid business model for some. Management by Bj+¦rk? As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
|
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
752
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 18:25:00 -
[211] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote: This.^^
And by the way, why is there so much hate towards CCP among the players in this thread? I really don't understand. If the reason for layoffs is true, and that is to focus strictly on development of EVE IP, that's completely OK. The company tried to spread focus but obviously bit slightly bigger bite than they can chew. Realizing that fact and switching dedication to products that do make money (and always have been) is a sign of a healthy company and certainly not the opposite. Companies that do fail are the ones that don't realize that they are shooting way over they heads without solid ground to back them up, which obviously isn't the case with CCP now.
But I understand that there is some sort of a sadistic desire by some of the forum trolls for CCP to fail. This can be seen even in every single new feature or change to the game that is introduced since Crucible. Every single feature or change had its own "Omg this is terrible. Revert this [insert insulting adjective] like right now!!11!!!", even for features that were long awaited and desired by a huge majority of players for years.
I have been in EVE since "Red Moon Rising" and have been following these forums and the community (EN24, TheMittani, Kugu, failheap, subreddits, player blogs,...) all the time and I can say that CCP bashing and these types of trolls were not that present before Incarna. After Incarna, it became FOTM to bash every step that CCP makes in or out of the game. This is allowed because CCP is one of the few companies that actually do care about your opinion as a customer and allows you to post any criticism including negative, especially since what happened in Incarna. This is abused to hell and back by some players to the point where it became ridiculous.
After Incarna and huge amount of negative feedback along with the big hit to CCP as a company, CCP has dedicated never to make the same mistake of not listening to player feedback again. The process of introduction of new features and changes is now: - Create a topic by a dev responsible for the changes in the "Features & ideas" discussion; - After feedback, come up with the working version of the feature/change and publish it in a devblog specifically stating that it's a WIP; - Gather more feedback in the devblog thread; - Refine the feature/change some more according to the feedback; - Publish new devblog if necessary; - Publish patch notes about the change and link both the F&I thread and devblog(s);
Is this the sign of "bad management"? Is this a sign of "bad state of CCP as a company"? Is this a sign of "CCP/EVE is dying"?
I don't think so. Company who don't only listens but dedicates itself to actively discussing their product(s) with customers does not look like it's on the road of failure.
And I don't even want to start talking about an article from "The Guardian". Credibility of articles in The Guardian is like credibility Kim Jong-il writing about western culture - they are partially true and can sound reasonable for brainwashed masses, but are ultimately written for their own interests and some details are over-amplified to make the whatever the point the author wanted. I'm not going deeper into politics, but politicians in the UK haven't yet gone over the way Iceland defended themselves from a banking fraud that was the cause of 2008. global economic crisis. That might be enough reason to dig, over-amplify or even fabricate (it certainly wouldn't be Guardian's first time) dirty stuff about an Icelandic company.
The reason people are so upset is that we support CCP directly by paying to play this game and hearing about another bunch of worker bee's getting treated poorly and then canned by ignorant and arrogant executives that you are paying to support makes a rational person angry.
You can take the cop-out that you are only paying for the game and the game is improving but what is being delivered to you right now is the partly the work of some of the people who just got sh!tcanned by Hilmar and his band of egomaniacs. By the time you realize the impact of what has just happened it will be entirely too late to voice an opinion b/c you let it blow over like no big deal b/c you were placated by 'the new direction' CCP is taking.
When qualified, hard working people start leaving for no real apparent reason it signals that something is wrong with the higher-ups. Good people don't stay around in a dysfunctional company. Now another round of layoffs and this guardian article hits. I'm not one to run around like chicken little but when Fozzie and Rise leave CCP is officially in the crapper.
And for the record, the unified inventory and loot spew were terrible mechanics and players gave CCP over 50 pages of feedback explaining how horrible it was but it made it in the game anyway so don't act like they are the poster-boys of heeding player feedback. Not today spaghetti. |
Marc Durant
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 18:26:00 -
[212] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Tippia wrote:flakeys wrote:If you think that only happends in the tech industry you're verry wrong.Every company big or small has a jackass knowitall who knows nothing and shouldn't even have a job to start with.
That said every company needs some PShhhhhhhhhhhh It's even a solid business model for some. Management by Bj+¦rk?
That would explain a lot, actually.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
498
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 18:46:00 -
[213] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:ignorant and arrogant executives
Hilmar and his band of egomaniacs
dysfunctional company Those are pretty harsh words. What are they based on? Do you know CCP management or employees personally? |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
755
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 18:48:00 -
[214] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Sexy Cakes wrote:ignorant and arrogant executives
Hilmar and his band of egomaniacs
dysfunctional company Those are pretty harsh words. What are they based on? Do you know CCP management or employees personally?
Track record. Not today spaghetti. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
580
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 18:54:00 -
[215] - Quote
Tl;DR, but as a 10 year vet I believe it is my right, naw duty, to tell you my .02 isk.
A few things.
CCP had a single product in the beginning, ofc that was EvE. CCP decided to branch out into the CCG market, because WoW was doing it, so meh why the hades not. They partnered with White Wolf to make the cards and devlope the game. My guess is, during this relationship they got to talking about WoD and how cool it would be as an MMO. From a business prospective, CCP looked at that and went 'yea we could do that, we have eve... and we are not suppose to put all yoru eggs in one basket, so a second property might work' So CCP and white wolf prolly started talks of WW doing the CCG, and CCP doing the MMO... thouse talks then turned to, 'hell lets just buy out white wolf...' So they did.
At the time, and the market, it was nto a bad idea. Vampries were on a resurnece, as you had the Underwold Movies and the Blade movies out. Twilight was out in book form, True Blood books were popular. And there was a lacking of Vampire themed games. On paper this is brilliant. It would expand CCP's ip, and allow them to gain more revenue, and if EvE failed, they had asecond project to fall back on.
Come the fan fest (06 I think) announcement and its met with very mixed feelings. CCP prolly scratched there heads a bit, but shrugged it off and proceded.
I'll note this before I go on, I only skimmed the article, i'll do a through reading after work, and I do not work for ccp nor have I ever, so this is all random and nothing official.
Anyway, so they started development of World Of Darkness MMO, but not at first, as they had to first get the house of both companies in order. I'd guess full development started in 07. As I remember being at he 07 fan fets and walking with a couple who was telling me that CCP is hiring future GM's in Atlanta.
So, you have eve in development, WoD in development, and whatever issues come up (note have not read the articale) So eve CCP starts to get ambitious, and in 2009 come up witht he apocarypta expantion, as well as the idea for dust. (yes I remember an article as early as late 09 about the dust concept) So, and anyone who followed dev blogs at the time would know, ccp threw all hands on deck on eve, they even announced it a few times. This would slow WoD progress.
Somewhere in here, CCP scrapped the working idea for WiS and changed to the incarinia crap we got. This ment a reworking, so WoD delayed a bit.
CCP has this idea that Dust will be amazing and they can do this great stuff, and once WiS comes it will give them more money, blah blah blah. Incarina, decrepted old eve system, microtransactions and greed is good hit at once. CCP thinks they are doing well, but then the players give them a slap in the face.
Hilmar appoligies, and anyone who bitches that he did nto write the letter so its bad that he did not write it is an idiot. CEO's don't write letters, they have other people do it, and usually give feedback/read and change before they sign. This is how it works. Deal with it.
CCP refocuses and again pulls everyone off WoD.
2013. CCP is looking at other companies expanding there brands and thinking, hey if hey can do it (ala the CCG) They have dust ready to roll, and part of the brand extention is games on different platforms. So they show the 'eve everywere' presidentation, and launch dust...
Dust did not do as good as they thought, was it a failure? idk. But I think dust not hitting what they thought it would, and the reaction to EvE VR, ccp took a step back. And in that step back, they went 'yea we can prolly do this better' They also see other games coming. So CCP decides to regroup, first launching valk, then ending some 'eve everywhere stuff' then killing WoD, because well if your gonna focus on eve.. you don't need the other game. Then moving to legion on pc.
Its a good business move, to considate, its also risky. If eve falls, so does CCP. That's scary if you think of it. That's why dust was lack luster. If dust failed, then meh we stll got eve, but if they were interconnected....
IMO the layoffs and the article do;t bother me. CCP seems to be learning from their mistakes, which is good. The question now is, will they pull it off, or mess it up. Onlt time will tell, but from where I am standing, the future looks bright.
One more note, yes i'm an eve fan boi, i'll support eve till it closes or I die. I love CCP, always have. But I know they are human and can do stupid stuff. I just hiope they finally learned, finish things you start before moving on, and focus, always focus on what will get you more money, not waste time on shineys.
(will spell check later, at work, and my back hurts form standing) 10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1820
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 19:05:00 -
[216] - Quote
Quote: Onlt time will tell, but from where I am standing, the future looks bright.
Why it looks bright? They are still doing the old tricks, multiple games in development and now even with less crew. I don't know where you see this light, but maybe you should not follow it. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif |
AnotherUseless Alt
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 19:14:00 -
[217] - Quote
Wow, people really can't see the writing on the wall, can they? "Self help is all in your head" |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
582
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 19:44:00 -
[218] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Quote: Onlt time will tell, but from where I am standing, the future looks bright. Why it looks bright? They are still doing the old tricks, multiple games in development and now even with less crew. I don't know where you see this light, but maybe you should not follow it.
Old eve systems being corrected and or finished that have been left collecting dust for years. Even in the road map, things that hamper game play are suppose to be looked at and fixed, leading up to expanding the universe.
Dust being moved to legion and deployed where it should of been in the first place, PC.
Valk coming to pc, giving people the dog fighting they require.
All games being linked together via a single account, so you can jump into each game with no issues.
Eventual linking of all games playing in one big universe. (This I think needs to happen from day one, but that's just me)
The ability with everything being on the same platform to easily patch and link the patches together.
Changing deployment cycles to in theory address issues and bring new things faster.
Specializing on a single ip, on a single platform.
What is there not to be optimistic about?
"They lost 21m last year lol" no, they did not really 'lose' 21m. They technically lost about 2m, which was from marketing, probly with the dust lunch and this to be expected. They made 10 min MORE in 2013 then they did in 2012 (look it up) And they 21m loss was actually covered by profits from the past 3 years (again look it up) As we know the 21m loss now is the cancelation of WoD, this is not really a loss, its a write off of stuff they are not going to use, this wasted time.
"Lol they are laying people off.." Right.. you kill a project you get rid of people you no longer need. WoD layoffs, Mobile layoffs as they don't need it, etc don't bother me. Its business, this stuff happens. could it mean something? sure. Does it matter? no not really.
"lol devs are jumping ship right and left" so? Companies have turn over, its normal. The reason you know about it, is people watch CCP's stuff like a damn hawk. Does it mean anything? Not really, people change jobs for all kinds of reasons. Could it mean something? Sure.
"lol EA is going to take over CCP" why? because an ex/ea employee recently became a board member? or got hired by ccp? Again people change jobs all the time. And Bill gates was on the board of apple for a while at one point. Steve jobs was on multiple boards, it really doesn't mean squat.
"But lol they are going to riot!" You have prolly never made friends at work have you? I'll tell you how this works. Co worker 1 gets tired of the current company and jumps ships to company a. His buddy a few months later gets tired of working for company b, and ask co worker a if company a has a job. Co worker a puts in a good word and co worker b gets a job at company a. This is normal, and nothing really to see here.
"lol the ccp management sucks man" How many companies have you worked for? ALL companies management sucks. ALL of them. Big and small. You will always have idiots, who have no idea what you do or how your job works, or get stupid ideas they think will be grand and can talk people into them. Does this mean anything? no, its business as usual.
Again, where is the 'writing on the wall?'
And to address something else. "CCP has not announced the sub numbers... the sky is falling" Lets use logic shall we? What game was released in 2013? Right dust. How much more money did ccp make last year if you ignore the write off? right about 10m. CCP made 74m in gave rev last year, and 2m from other stuff. that's about 10 min more then 2012. So if you had the sub numbers, and did basic math, you could work out how much money they got from dust. And my guess is, ether subs are super low, but I doubt that, as when they plundged after incarnia, everyone knew. OR and this is more likely, Dust was a disappointment. If it turned out that dust made like 3m last year from may till 12, which is 3m/7 as it was out for 7 months, you get 435k a month.. which is not very good. its not horrible, but... So that's my guess, they don't want us to know the exact breakdown of eve money vs dust.
I see no reason to be all 'omg the sky is falling' could it be? sure. but based ont eh evidence is it? no not really. Circumstancial means noda 10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
582
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 19:47:00 -
[219] - Quote
AnotherUseless Alt wrote:Wow, people really can't see the writing on the wall, can they? Worst decision CCP ever made was to try and build other games, while seemingly forgetting about EvE. It's been years since they put out an actual expansion, unless you want to count the various updates as "Expansions". Unfortunately, when it does happen, we will have a bunch of dysfunctional children with hate issues, and no safe place to release it..... P.S. CCP, do you really think perma-banning my troll alt will bother me? I haven't played this broken game for months, and the subs are running out, hopefully I'll beat the doors closing...
So let me get this straight... you think that because ccp has not brought out new stuff.. which will be unfinished, collecting dust, while the move on to shineys... instead of fixing the broken, outdated, unfinished old stuff to get eve to a place so new stuff has a good foundation, that ccp is dying?
Are you insane? 10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict |
Marsha Mallow
919
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 19:52:00 -
[220] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:And by the way, why is there so much hate towards CCP among the players in this thread? I really don't understand. If the reason for layoffs is true, and that is to focus strictly on development of EVE IP, that's completely OK.
But I understand that there is some sort of a sadistic desire by some of the forum trolls for CCP to fail.
I have been in EVE since "Red Moon Rising" and have been following these forums and the community (EN24, TheMittani, Kugu, failheap, subreddits, player blogs,...) all the time and I can say that CCP bashing and these types of trolls were not that present before Incarna.
Is this the sign of "bad management"? Is this a sign of "bad state of CCP as a company"? Is this a sign of "CCP/EVE is dying"?
I don't think so. Company who don't only listens but dedicates itself to actively discussing their product(s) with customers does not look like it's on the road of failure.
And I don't even want to start talking about an article from "The Guardian". You make some good points (sorry to compress it slightly).
I don't agree that the tone is of CCP hating here. They've put faces to the Devs with player-Dev initiatives. It's not surprising people actually like some of them and dislike seeing them get the chop for what appear to be decisions outside their control. I responded more fully here, it was locked fair enough, but the comments stand. FunkyBacon expressed it better here, and I really don't get a sense of angst from his remarks either.
I really wouldn't mistake genuine concern from the playerbase over the direction of the company responsible for the game. It isn't coming across to me as vitriol, it's more disappointment and disquiet. Obviously interpreting comments varies, but I always get the sense people have a lot invested in EvE and want to see it succeed. They're at their most critical when they see glaring problems.
Re your comments about CCP bashing before Incarna, I can't agree there. I started in 2008 and almost immediately started reading Kugu and the tone there was highly critical over T20. It's not an Incarna phenomenon, that incident just escalated things to a wider portion of the playerbase (and to external media sites).
Direction wise I am happy at the moment, but I'm not sure how much of that is coming from the management team, and how much from the workers. Maybe this direction is too little too late. If they have a serious cultural problem in the company they need to address it. Consumers are a lot more switched on than they were 20 years ago, and some are reluctant to support companies they believe have poor ethical practices in a variety of respects. Most importantly, the treatment of their customers and employees. CCP appear to have improved their relationship with us, but if behind the scenes the problems persist they will leak in damaging ways. And some people will not engage with a company that behaves like that (including potential new players).
Re the Guardian I agree, it's not entirely reliable. Add that article to company direction and other reports though and it doesn't look good overall.
If we want to express concern, and sympathy to people losing their jobs, we can. It's upto CCP management to pay attention if that tone shifts to outright criticism. (Hint: I don't think they've ever done that at a senior level until the damage is done). TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
|
Marsha Mallow
919
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 19:57:00 -
[221] - Quote
Also, WTB more Trippia art. WTF.
And, more importantly, gl to the Devs who lost their jobs, all the best o7 TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22420
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 19:59:00 -
[222] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Also, WTB more Trippia art. WTF. Ok, but it gets a bit more esoteric from here onGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Marsha Mallow
919
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 20:04:00 -
[223] - Quote
I'm torn between this and this at the moment.
I'd have smacked someone over the head with my own monitor if they'd made that remark to me. Luckily none of my managers have ever dared get that close and open their silly mouths. Although I have heard squishy deflating sounds a few times when I eyeball them. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
711
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 20:11:00 -
[224] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Felicity Love wrote:Very disappointed in CCP over this. VERY. After the entire Ishukone Scorpion/BLINK debacle I vowed to never pay CCP another penny of my hard earned money and this article makes me very happy I made that decision.
Yet... you are still here.
Oh oh, I know! You PLEX your account right, so CCP doesn't get money for your subscription, right? Right?! :D My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
KaarBaak
293
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 20:24:00 -
[225] - Quote
The Guardian article reads like countless other articles on game failures. Could easily substitute any random game title for WoD. It's an age-old story. TBH, the writing was on the wall after 5 years and so little production. I think WW picked the wrong partner--they should've teamed-up with a larger developer with a proven track record. But, being such a niche product they probably should've found a way to stay independent.
A curious thing about the Guardian article (and I don't read that publication much) is the large number of unattributed quotes. Entire paragraphs are enclosed in quotes, but no discernible speaker. I saw one reference to an unnamed developer and then I guess I have to assume all other quotes are attributed to Blood? So an entire article based on the opinions and viewpoint of a disillusioned GM?
So, as always I feel bad for the folks scrambling to find employment, but as the article points out this is just par for the course in this industry.
And complaints about the quality of dinner rations and medical coverage getting cut? LoL, as my old friend John McClane once said: "Welcome to the party, pal." |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 20:27:00 -
[226] - Quote
I wonder how many fiction writers are in the thread dumbing down the article and trying to make ccp look good. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22421
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 20:29:00 -
[227] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:And complaints about the quality of dinner rations and medical coverage getting cut? LoL, as my old friend John McClane once said: "Welcome to the party, pal." Why shouldn't he complain about getting less pay? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Thomas Harding
Flaming Sideburns Social Club
21
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 20:36:00 -
[228] - Quote
Othran wrote:The Guardian article is spot on the money - its a description of a Scandinavian management culture which permits no dissent or criticism of management, and like the vast majority of Scandinavian companies that culture fails once they expand beyond their own country.
Really?
Leadership styles around the world
|
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 21:01:00 -
[229] - Quote
"Eve is dying" implies that the players are leaving. I know that according to some there have been drops in the number of players, but there are many factors which could affect that. The first that comes to mind would be how many players have simply taken a short break from Eve to play Wildstar. I haven't played it, but I have heard it is a heavy PvP game, and I would think that the Eve playerbase would be comprised of people who are interested in PvP, and not just from one venue. In other words, they'll be back.
In regards to "eve is dying" when it comes to CCP, the best we can do at this point, in my opinion, is watch what CCP does. Observe the changes being made to Eve Online, and compare them with other actions by companies that have failed in the past (or sold their products, etc.).
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22432
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 21:25:00 -
[230] - Quote
Ok. Time for bed. Last ones for the dayGǪ
GǪyeah, I'm out of ideas. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
805
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 21:58:00 -
[231] - Quote
Any daily newspaper is hardly the most reliable source for accurate information regarding internal company policy and strategy. The desire to sell space and get eyeballs on page, may be considered by some a more relevant motivation.
There have been many events over time, that have been condensed into a short article. The focus of that may have given the impression of gross incompetence and neglect. There are always funny anectdotes about managers. Some are less connected to reality than others, and honestly, if one lets the devs decide what should be implemented without checks and balances, all hell breaks loose.
Times have changed, the market has changed, CCP have made the decision that it is uneconomic to try to chase those changes any further with an unreleased product.
I am sure many in CCP are reevaluating their role in this entire event, some will certainly feel vindicated after this article and some ashamed.
But this is normal life and normal business, CCP will learn, hopefully those who are no longer employed will find better opportunities and goals. And CCP looks at what makes EvE popular, and what loses them subscribers and adapt and overcome leaving the company and EvE as a game better off, and those remaining employees with better security for the future. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 22:55:00 -
[232] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote: Re the Guardian I agree, it's not entirely reliable. Add that article to company direction and other reports though and it doesn't look good overall..
Wait, hold on.... goons and Marsha are now agreeing with my appraisal of the situation? Did I just plunge into the Twilight Zone?
Worse, is Dinsdale now controlling the Transmission?
Ok, those of you who are talking about how much 'hate' is going on here.... a month or so back, since I don't recognize most off you, I pointed out that CCP's financial situation must be pretty bad, and cited a large number of reasons, and my conclusion was that most likely subs were down in a significant manner. That has yet to be proven or not, but something clearly has impacted CCP in a very large way, financially.
Many of the 'haters' you see posting here decried me as a lunatic moron traitor doomsayer, compared me with Dinsdale and that I clearly hated eve etc etc etc.
Now you watch as they eat crow and admit that maybe there is something to this. Perhaps that should tell you how dire things actually look to be. |
Marsha Mallow
939
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:15:00 -
[233] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote: Re the Guardian I agree, it's not entirely reliable. Add that article to company direction and other reports though and it doesn't look good overall..
Wait, hold on.... goons and Marsha are now agreeing with my appraisal of the situation? Did I just plunge into the Twilight Zone? Worse, is Dinsdale now controlling the Transmission? Ok, those of you who are talking about how much 'hate' is going on here.... a month or so back, since I don't recognize most off you, I pointed out that CCP's financial situation must be pretty bad, and cited a large number of reasons, and my conclusion was that most likely subs were down in a significant manner. That has yet to be proven or not, but something clearly has impacted CCP in a very large way, financially. Many of the 'haters' you see posting here decried me as a lunatic moron traitor doomsayer, compared me with Dinsdale and that I clearly hated eve etc etc etc. Now you watch as they eat crow and admit that maybe there is something to this. Perhaps that should tell you how dire things actually look to be. Maybe you should stop being such a fascist and address the arguments people make, rather than pidgeonhole them into whatever value you've assigned to the inferior beings. I don't care about your affiliation, the only time I reference it is to take the ****. The fact you spout hysterical gibberish 90% of the time you post doesn't mean I'm incapable of assessing your argument fairly. That's your problem, not mine, self appointed 'lunatic moron traitor doomsayer'.
Also, I quite fancy Dinsdale. Esp the way he comes out of the paddock at full speed raging at people, and runs right up to them and froths. Then trots away. It's very manly. I expect you all to be a bit dim, but muscular. But I'm just like that. You're just an attention grinder, there's no substance behind your warbling, sorry. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
4989
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:15:00 -
[234] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote: Did I just plunge into the Twilight Zone?
Worse, is Dinsdale now controlling the Transmission?
That's The Outer Limits you are thinking of "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
4989
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:16:00 -
[235] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Also, I quite fancy Dinsdale. Esp the way he comes out of the paddock at full speed raging at people, and runs right up to them and froths. Then trots away. It's very manly. I expect you all to be a bit dim, but muscular.
You just made me think of Dino as a hot stallion
You ***** "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. |
Marsha Mallow
939
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:20:00 -
[236] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: You just made me think of Dino as a hot stallion
You *****
I live next door to stables. Very erotic. Esp when they frolic. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
4989
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:23:00 -
[237] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: You just made me think of Dino as a hot stallion
You *****
I live next door to stables. Very erotic. Esp when they frolic.
Damn you "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. |
Marsha Mallow
939
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:26:00 -
[238] - Quote
I'll add a pony pic to sig. So we can all be damned and enjoy it. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
504
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:37:00 -
[239] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:I'll add a pony pic to sig. So we can all be damned and enjoy it. Add a stallion too, else the pony will feel lonely.
BTW, you ok, girl? Maybe it's just an impression, but I noticed a fair number of harsher-than-usual posts... |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:39:00 -
[240] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote: Maybe you should stop being such a fascist and address the arguments people make, rather than pidgeonhole them into whatever value you've assigned to the inferior beings. I don't care about your affiliation, the only time I reference it is to take the ****. The fact you spout hysterical gibberish 90% of the time you post doesn't mean I'm incapable of assessing your argument fairly. That's your problem, not mine, self appointed 'lunatic moron traitor doomsayer'.
Also, I quite fancy Dinsdale. Esp the way he comes out of the paddock at full speed raging at people, and runs right up to them and froths. Then trots away. It's very manly. I expect you all to be a bit dim, but muscular. But I'm just like that. You're just an attention grinder, there's no substance behind your warbling, sorry.
Marsha, I might point out that, for being the 'fascist' I'm not the one foaming at the mouth and screaming incoherently about 'inferior beings'.
And, again, if you ever take the time to, as Tippia occasionally does, actually address any of what I say, rather than rabidly attacking me, personally, I might think you capable of 'addressing my argument fairly'. As far as 'addressing the arguments people make', as I believe someone told Tippia recently, 'if you projected any harder, Samsung might just have to trademark you'.
If it pisses you off this badly to admit that I may have been right,.... *shrug* |
|
Marsha Mallow
945
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:48:00 -
[241] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:BTW, you ok, girl? Maybe it's just an impression, but I noticed a fair number of harsher-than-usual posts... I'm fine, but thanks for asking :) Year end exams today then I missed a night out because stuck in traffic on the M1/A1 for 2 hours so ye a bit stroppy. But tbf I am stroppy all the time, so don't be surprised by outbursts like this (I'm rly arsey at times, and too old to apologise for it) :S Demo below
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:If it pisses you off this badly to admit that I may have been right,.... *shrug* Thanks for the condescending remarks. I think this is an inappropriate place to warble on about your intellectual superiority and pre-cog powers. 49 people just lost their jobs. There are others attached to that, including the remaining team. But let's all stop for a minute and talk about you and how clever you are. You're dead right about a rabid attack. You earned it. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
KaarBaak
294
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 23:53:00 -
[242] - Quote
Tippia wrote:KaarBaak wrote:And complaints about the quality of dinner rations and medical coverage getting cut? LoL, as my old friend John McClane once said: "Welcome to the party, pal." Why shouldn't he complain about getting less pay?
Not saying he cannot complain. Just saying that that's happening all over. Lots of folks are facing the same thing. It's nothing special. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 00:01:00 -
[243] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote: Thanks for the condescending remarks. I think this is an inappropriate place to warble on about your intellectual superiority and pre-cog powers. 49 people just lost their jobs. There are others attached to that, including the remaining team. But let's all stop for a minute and talk about you and how clever you are. You're dead right about a rabid attack. You earned it.
I pointed it out, and you thoughtfully underlined it, that we both agreed on this underlines how bad, and how glaringly obvious it's become.
Some of our fine posters were thoughtfully calling you and several other posters some of the exact same things you and said posters had said about me in the past for pointing out the same exact things.
Normally I'd have set up a separate thread for this, but ISD has made it plain that there is to be no other discussion of this subject (or anything related to it even in the most vague and tangential way) outside this thread, period.
Is it bad that they lost their jobs? Hell yes. But are we in this forum going to do a thing about it other than offer our condolences? That is the question, is it not? |
Retar Aveymone
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
423
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 00:41:00 -
[244] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:Temporarily locked for some cleanup.
Okay, false alarm. Removed a post for rumor mongering and attacks against a CCP employee. Thread unlocked.
Are there many left to rage against? give credit where credit is due, this is a top-notch burn |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1855
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 02:43:00 -
[245] - Quote
I'll take Hilmar over any other CEO in the MMO scene, anyday.
The MMO's out there are such complete money milking garbage people should build a statue for this man and we should thank him daily for not taking EVE into the gutter yet.
So things didn't work out for other games he tried, big F deal. Nothing ventured nothing gained. He could have easily sold out to the likes of EA and spent his millions on hookers and blow. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3123
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 04:10:00 -
[246] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote: Re the Guardian I agree, it's not entirely reliable. Add that article to company direction and other reports though and it doesn't look good overall..
Wait, hold on.... goons and Marsha are now agreeing with my appraisal of the situation? Did I just plunge into the Twilight Zone? Worse, is Dinsdale now controlling the Transmission? Ok, those of you who are talking about how much 'hate' is going on here.... a month or so back, since I don't recognize most off you, I pointed out that CCP's financial situation must be pretty bad, and cited a large number of reasons, and my conclusion was that most likely subs were down in a significant manner. That has yet to be proven or not, but something clearly has impacted CCP in a very large way, financially. Many of the 'haters' you see posting here decried me as a lunatic moron traitor doomsayer, compared me with Dinsdale and that I clearly hated eve etc etc etc. Now you watch as they eat crow and admit that maybe there is something to this. Perhaps that should tell you how dire things actually look to be.
Another one of the remaining bloggers had a post today about the fact that the "run is over", and these layoffs "should end the debate" about falling subs.
So all you can do is just shrug about it at this point. You want to fight the goon propaganda machine, you better grow a thick skin. I do find some satisfaction though that tinfoil hats are growing more fashionable these days.
Bottom line is this:
CCP has two big problems, both that are driving away subs.
1. The attack on high sec, particularly the casual players, is intensifying. Crius is going to be a hammer blow to many. 2. Null sec is a stagnant mess, that is boring a whole bunch of null sec players to death, and they are leaving. If you look at seagull's flow charts, it is likely at least 12 months before any serious work is done on smashing null sec gridlock.
Both these issue smack of executives and / or high level game designers who are completely out of touch with the hobby of Eve. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Prince Kobol
1919
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 08:06:00 -
[247] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:The Guardian article reads like countless other articles on game failures. Could easily substitute any random game title for WoD. It's an age-old story. TBH, the writing was on the wall after 5 years and so little production. I think WW picked the wrong partner--they should've teamed-up with a larger developer with a proven track record. But, being such a niche product they probably should've found a way to stay independent.
A curious thing about the Guardian article (and I don't read that publication much) is the large number of unattributed quotes. Entire paragraphs are enclosed in quotes, but no discernible speaker. I saw one reference to an unnamed developer and then I guess I have to assume all other quotes are attributed to Blood? So an entire article based on the opinions and viewpoint of a disillusioned GM?
So, as always I feel bad for the folks scrambling to find employment, but as the article points out this is just par for the course in this industry.
And complaints about the quality of dinner rations and medical coverage getting cut? LoL, as my old friend John McClane once said: "Welcome to the party, pal."
Nick Blood was not a disillusioned GM.
Nick Blood was formely known as CCP Dropbear. Also he was not disillusioned, he left CCP simply to move back to his home, Australia.
If you had spent about 30 seconds you could of found this out yourself. |
Prince Kobol
1919
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 08:09:00 -
[248] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:I'll take Hilmar over any other CEO in the MMO scene, anyday.
The MMO's out there are such complete money milking garbage people should build a statue for this man and we should thank him daily for not taking EVE into the gutter yet.
So things didn't work out for other games he tried, big F deal. Nothing ventured nothing gained. He could have easily sold out to the likes of EA and spent his millions on hookers and blow.
So you are saying that Hilmar has not tried to milk us, the players for more money... seriously?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22441
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 09:27:00 -
[249] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP has two big problems, both that are driving away subs.
1. The attack on high sec, particularly the casual players, is intensifying. Crius is going to be a hammer blow to many. How is highsec and casual players being attacked? In particular, how is Crius of all things an attack on highsec with the massive improvements it brings to the area and to casual players? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
274
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 10:19:00 -
[250] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP has two big problems, both that are driving away subs.
1. The attack on high sec, particularly the casual players, is intensifying. Crius is going to be a hammer blow to many. How is highsec and casual players being attacked? In particular, how is Crius of all things an attack on highsec with the massive improvements it brings to the area and to casual players?
I haven't been following highsec stuff that closely but I'd like to know how anything being done influences highsec positively as you're passive-aggressively implying?
Don't be a fence sitter farming likes for sardonic mis-quotes and try producing some real thread contributions sometime. LP store weapon cost rebalance |
|
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1987
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 10:20:00 -
[251] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:I'll take Hilmar over any other CEO in the MMO scene, anyday.
The MMO's out there are such complete money milking garbage people should build a statue for this man and we should thank him daily for not taking EVE into the gutter yet. .
He tried and failed, one of the benefits of small game community.
CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-á/ Dynamic New Eden |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22442
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 10:46:00 -
[252] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:I haven't been following highsec stuff that closely but I'd like to know how anything being done influences highsec positively as you're passive-aggressively implying? Massive increases in the number of available slots; massive increases in the amount of space at your disposal for building your own infrastructure; a complete removal of the faff you have to go through to put up a POS; a massive reduction in the amount of faff you have to go through to set up useful POS; vastly simplified logistics; an entirely new mini-profession; a significant increase in the kinds (and sizes) of competitive advantages you can gain. Nothing that hasn't been identified and known for almost two months unless you have a massive blind spot for reality like the one dindin has.
Quote:Don't be a fence sitter farming likes for sardonic mis-quotes and try producing some real thread contributions sometime. Your abject failure to read and comprehend what is going on around you does not constitute a lack of contribution on my part. Sod off. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
805
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 11:03:00 -
[253] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:I haven't been following highsec stuff that closely but I'd like to know how anything being done influences highsec positively as you're passive-aggressively implying? Massive increases in the number of available slots; massive increases in the amount of space at your disposal for building your own infrastructure; a complete removal of the faff you have to go through to put up a POS; a massive reduction in the amount of faff you have to go through to set up useful POS; vastly simplified logistics; an entirely new mini-profession; a significant increase in the kinds (and sizes) of competitive advantages you can gain. Nothing that hasn't been identified and known for almost two months unless you have a massive blind spot for reality like the one dindin has. Quote:Don't be a fence sitter farming likes for sardonic mis-quotes and try producing some real thread contributions sometime. Your abject failure to read and comprehend what is going on around you does not constitute a lack of contribution on my part. Sod off.
You are both right in a way, dinsdale does identify reasons why it is overall a nerf to highsec, but I disagree with his core assumption that it is deliberately a boost to the Goons.
What it does is take away the built in advantage that HS had and make it so that manufacturing and industry can equally take place IN ANY SPACE.
There is an initial boost to Null, but the real boost will be in the new space. One cannot really move in unless the hard economic ties to the old space are broken. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22442
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 11:10:00 -
[254] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:You are both right in a way, dinsdale does identify reasons why it is overall a nerf to highsec, but I disagree with his core assumption that it is deliberately a boost to the Goons. Where does he do that? He keeps saying it is, but when pressed, he consistently fails to produce any kind of answer. Hence my question.
Quote:What it does is take away the built in advantage that HS had and make it so that manufacturing and industry can equally take place IN ANY SPACE. This is true. A part of that is giving highsec the kind of player-driven extensibility that was previously only really available in null, and in doing so makes that kind of effort worth-while for all areas of space. It's really just a universal shift away from stations and towards other kinds of structures, which is a win for pretty much everyone (and especially for the future). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
805
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 11:11:00 -
[255] - Quote
Tippia wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:You are both right in a way, dinsdale does identify reasons why it is overall a nerf to highsec, but I disagree with his core assumption that it is deliberately a boost to the Goons. Where does he do that? He keeps saying it is, but when pressed, he consistently fails to produce any kind of answer. Hence my question. Quote:What it does is take away the built in advantage that HS had and make it so that manufacturing and industry can equally take place IN ANY SPACE. This is true. A part of that is giving highsec the kind of player-driven extensibility that was previously only really available in null, and in doing so makes that kind of effort worth-while for all areas of space. It's really just a universal shift away from stations and towards other kinds of structures, which is a win for pretty much everyone (and especially for the future).
It does look like they have created a much nicer interface too. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3126
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:05:00 -
[256] - Quote
Tippia wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:You are both right in a way, dinsdale does identify reasons why it is overall a nerf to highsec, but I disagree with his core assumption that it is deliberately a boost to the Goons. Where does he do that? He keeps saying it is, but when pressed, he consistently fails to produce any kind of answer. Hence my question.
Talk about willful blindness. I learned long ago that debating with you is impossible.
Dealing with you is like dealing with someone who thinks the bible is a literal history of the world, or a global warming denier.
The nerfs to high sec with Crius have been documented by umpteen bloggers (for one highly respected one it was the last straw) plus posters in this forum.
I will continue to ignore your posts as much as I can, because I certainly have no interest in matching the quantity that you pump out, nor the obtuseness. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22443
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:10:00 -
[257] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Talk about willful blindness. I learned long ago that debating with you is impossible. No, it's not. You just have to actually present any kind of solid basis and coherent logic behind your claims.
I also can't help noticing you couldn't answer the question, as expected. Instead, you just piled on even more unsupported claims. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2439
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:14:00 -
[258] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Tippia wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:You are both right in a way, dinsdale does identify reasons why it is overall a nerf to highsec, but I disagree with his core assumption that it is deliberately a boost to the Goons. Where does he do that? He keeps saying it is, but when pressed, he consistently fails to produce any kind of answer. Hence my question. Talk about willful blindness. I learned long ago that debating with you is impossible. Dealing with you is like dealing with someone who thinks the bible is a literal history of the world, or a global warming denier. The nerfs to high sec with Crius have been documented by umpteen bloggers (for one highly respected one it was the last straw) plus posters in this forum. I will continue to ignore your posts as much as I can, because I certainly have no interest in matching the quantity that you pump out, nor the obtuseness.
The best way to manage Tippia, is to let him have the last word as quickly as possible. This is not a signature. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3126
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:20:00 -
[259] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Tippia wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:You are both right in a way, dinsdale does identify reasons why it is overall a nerf to highsec, but I disagree with his core assumption that it is deliberately a boost to the Goons. Where does he do that? He keeps saying it is, but when pressed, he consistently fails to produce any kind of answer. Hence my question. Talk about willful blindness. I learned long ago that debating with you is impossible. Dealing with you is like dealing with someone who thinks the bible is a literal history of the world, or a global warming denier. The nerfs to high sec with Crius have been documented by umpteen bloggers (for one highly respected one it was the last straw) plus posters in this forum. I will continue to ignore your posts as much as I can, because I certainly have no interest in matching the quantity that you pump out, nor the obtuseness. The best way to manage Tippia, is to let him have the last word as quickly as possible.
Yeah, sad but true. It is amazing how many arguments you can "win" if you are willing to outlast your adversary no matter how long it takes. It would be really interesting if someone could do an analysis of what percentage of all the posts on the forums are by tippia in the past 2 years, plus the percentage of words written, and compare that to the next 10 highest. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22443
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:24:00 -
[260] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:The best way to manage Tippia, is to let him have the last word as quickly as possible. Yeah, sad but true. Not really, no. The best way to manage me is to not rely on fallacies GÇö especially ad hominems GÇö to try to carry your (lack of) argument.
Instead, provide sources, data, and reasoning. Actually engage in the argumentation rather than desperately trying to dodge everything. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Prince Kobol
1920
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:48:00 -
[261] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:The best way to manage Tippia, is to let him have the last word as quickly as possible. Yeah, sad but true. Not really, no. The best way to manage me is to not rely on fallacies GÇö especially ad hominems GÇö to try to carry your (lack of) argument. Instead, provide sources, data, and reasoning. Actually engage in the argumentation rather than desperately trying to dodge everything.
All things which dinsdale is incapable of doing. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2440
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:53:00 -
[262] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:The best way to manage Tippia, is to let him have the last word as quickly as possible. Yeah, sad but true. Not really, no. The best way to manage me is to not rely on fallacies GÇö especially ad hominems GÇö to try to carry your (lack of) argument. Instead, provide sources, data, and reasoning. Actually engage in the argumentation rather than desperately trying to dodge everything.
My dear Tippia, some time ago you claimed that suicide ganking figures must be down as you personally had not been ganked somewhere or other for some time.
You provided absolutely no evidence to support your assertion, but just kept repeating that as you had not been suicide ganked where ever it was for some time, it was therefore, proof that the levels of suicide ganking must be on the decline for the game as a whole.
As ever, you may now have the last word, or be a devil and just not post for once.
This is not a signature. |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
135
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:55:00 -
[263] - Quote
It really is too bad this thread didn't stay on topic for a few more days. damn it is hard to delete my signature |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2440
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:59:00 -
[264] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:It really is too bad this thread didn't stay on topic for a few more days.
You are right, I apologize for side tracking the thread. This is not a signature. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22443
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:59:00 -
[265] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:My dear Tippia, some time ago you claimed that suicide ganking figures must be down as you personally had not been ganked somewhere or other for some time. Are you quite sure I didn't just rhetorically ask why I never saw any in spite of some unsupported claim that they were more common than ever? Or are you just traipsing needlessly into fallacy territory? Oh, and what on earth does it have to do with the topic at hand other than to try to evade it and turn it into a very oblique argument against me, personally?
My experience was the evidence to support my assertions about my experience of the matter, as a step up from the (pretty much always) unsupported claim of things going in the other direction. It's not rocket surgery, you knowGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2440
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 14:04:00 -
[266] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Josef Djugashvilis]My dear Tippia, some time ago you claimed that suicide ganking figures must be down as you personally had not been ganked somewhere or other for some time. Are you quite sure I didn't just rhetorically ask why I never saw any in spite of some unsupported claim that they were more common than ever? Or are you just traipsing needlessly into fallacy territory? Oh, and what on earth does it have to do with the topic at hand other than to try to evade it and turn it into a very oblique argument against me, personally?
My experience was the evidence to support my assertions about my experience of the matter, as a step up from the (pretty much always) unsupported claim of things going in the other direction. It's not rocket surgery, you knowGǪ[/quote
Some times I think you are my younger brother in real life, but I have checked with him and he does not play Eve Online This is not a signature. |
Prince Kobol
1920
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 14:16:00 -
[267] - Quote
To get back onto topic....
Again I do worry for Eve, I think the next 12 months could be the most important ever for this game.
The last few months have seen a lot of amazing guys leave CCP, both voluntary and those who have been made redundant.
CCP Xhagen treatment is just.. well all I can say is wtf.
You do a Dev blog all about the guy and less then a month later you give him his cards, that is just a massive kick in the balls.
Also please do not try and say that you can lose this many talented people and that it will not effect Eve's development because that is pure bulls**t.
I have said it before that in my own opinion from what I have seen over the last few months flying around null that its quiet. Last night I spent a few hours flying on my alt looking for Ghost Sites around Wicked Creek, Insmother, Detorid and Immensea and I only came across one small group of guys.. that is it. This was during EU Prime time as well.
The PCU is on a downward trend, CCP not releasing subs figures which is something they usually do.
Again, EVE IS NOT DYING, but I would say it is stagnating.
I still believe that CCP is trying to juggle far too many projects and ultimately maybe there downfall.
Some are saying that the guardian's peace about WoD is your typical media crap and its a common thing in teh industry, no reason to get worried, however the fact that they spoke to Nick Blood (CCP Dropbear) who I remember as being a great dev and not somebody who has any obvious grudges to bear, his assessment was quite damming and somewhat worrying. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22443
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 14:20:00 -
[268] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Some times I think you are my younger brother in real life, but I have checked with him and he does not play Eve Online So that's a GÇ£noGÇ¥ then.
Remember how I explaiend to you that your best course of action was to provide sources and data, and to not rely on fallacies? On learning this, you picked a path that relies on unsupported claims and fallacies. Now, I just have to ask: did this strategy really sound like a good idea when you laid it out for yourself? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2440
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 14:25:00 -
[269] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Some times I think you are my younger brother in real life, but I have checked with him and he does not play Eve Online So that's a GÇ£noGÇ¥ then. Remember how I explaiend to you that your best course of action was to provide sources and data, and to not rely on fallacies? On learning this, you picked a path that relies on unsupported claims and fallacies. Now, I just have to ask: did this strategy really sound like a good idea when you laid it out for yourself?
Wow, just freakin' wow man. This is not a signature. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22443
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 14:35:00 -
[270] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Wow, just freakin' wow man. Wow indeed. You were given a fool-proof plan for how to deal with the issue you were having GÇö what to do and what to avoid GÇö and you decided to do it the other way around. It's mind-boggling, really.
There's some hidden parallel to be found in there in how, say, gankers are very keen on providing numerous proven strategies to their victims on how to avoid the situations they find themselves in, and yet, seemingly compulsively, they reject them out of hand and keep doing what was obviously not working to begin with, hoping that it will yield a different result. It's as if they irredeemably read those suggestions as a trap rather than the actually helpful advice it was intended as. The same pattern can be found all over this game for some odd reason. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
512
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 14:40:00 -
[271] - Quote
Guys, Tippia's only weakspot is Psssshhhh memes. She (he?) literally goes crazy for them!
About Crius:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:The nerfs to high sec with Crius have been documented by umpteen bloggers (for one highly respected one it was the last straw) plus posters in this forum. Maybe wait untill Crius is released in its final version, in the meanwhile providing useful feedback, before 'documenting' non-existant nerfs? Or ranting about the 'last straw'? How can you even 'document' something that doesn't even exist yet?
And lol at the arrogance of blindly trusting one's own predictions about an economy as complex as EVE (even if you're smart). |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:15:00 -
[272] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Remember how I explaiend to you that your best course of action was to provide sources and data, and to not rely on fallacies? On learning this, you picked a path that relies on unsupported claims and fallacies. Now, I just have to ask: did this strategy really sound like a good idea when you laid it out for yourself?
Tippia, as someone who's argued data with you, you just argue that the data is wrong, or that I'm misrepresenting/interpreting it and that down is really up, and fewer is actually more. Some of the mental gymnastics you have preformed are gold medal worthy, and the mathematical distortion worthy of a Hollywood Accountant. |
Deltarus Shadowflight
The Ascended Academy
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:18:00 -
[273] - Quote
Yes this thread has gotten pretty off topic. I stopped reading after about about page 5 and skipped to the end to see how many pages there was to see that this was no where near the original topic. Any how, this post is in regard to the start of this thread.
First off, I want to say I am in no way writing this in a back of or support of what has happened. I am simply putting this here to clarify my thoughts in regards to the situation CCP has brought about.
It is a real shame that all of this had to happen, it really is. It really did come down to a short sighted choice for CCP to take over White Wolf and the World of Darkness project. These two projects although under the same company, should never have been in contact with each other yet alone in the same working space. That aside, from a business end point they did what had to be done to keep EVE alive. They took on to much debt with that project and furthered the debt with R&D being sunk into Valkyrie and other new/current projects. I see a lot of slinging of speculation about the future and finance of CCP... How about doing what I did and using google for 10 minutes to be informed instead of guessing. A look at the CCP financial statement for time ending 31st Dec 2013 will show you what happened and why they made this choice. They technically went into the red last year due to $40,063,223 increase in R&D cost. Now given they had by this point dropped WoD, this in my opinion is down to them trying to find other avenues besides EVE for expansion. This brought about the Valkyrie project. I think CCP direction to spreading the EVE world into new avenues is smart move, unfortunately anyone not directly involved or ear marked for work on this needs to go. They have to payout 7% interest to there stakeholders on a semiannual bases. Along with their requirements to these stakeholders, if they drop cash flow in certain areas they can find themselves in some serious trouble. This does not mean the company is going to fold, just that they need to make sure they are in the black till the have higher cash flow coming in to put back into finishing current projects not generating cash. This in turn brought on the hiring of someone to increase cash driven sections to existing content, thus the NEX store and other services. You must remember, they need to finish what they have started but need that cash upfront. With WoD dropped, why would they keep the staff. Again, it sucks it happened but it needed to happen with the current business model.
Any way, like I said, this is just from what I have done with a little bit of research. I was worried that things where going slow for CCP and the media that does cover this stuff seems to like pointing readers in the wrong direction on speculation as well. Stop guessing and start reading. Stay informed and make decisions on that information, not the speculation of snippet information or others random flying comments.
Page 6 CCP Games Financial Statement Dec 31 2013
Page 43 in reference to obligation to stakeholders [url=http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47392/ccp%206%20month%20update%20september%2023%202013.pdf[/url] |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:24:00 -
[274] - Quote
Deltarus Shadowflight wrote:Any way, like I said, this is just from what I have done with a little bit of research. I was worried that things where going slow for CCP and the media that does cover this stuff seems to like pointing readers in the wrong direction on speculation as well. Stop guessing and start reading. Stay informed and make decisions on that information, not the speculation of snippet information or others random flying comments. Page 6CCP Games Financial Statement Dec 31 2013Page 43 in reference to obligation to stakeholders[url=http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47392/ccp%206%20month%20update%20september%2023%202013.pdf[/url]
I actually recommend page 5 on that one where CCP takes a 21m loss for the year.
The one you actually want is the six month financials that end in June. We then compare them to the same ones this year when they're released. That gives us our 'same period' comparison between this year and last.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22443
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:29:00 -
[275] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Tippia, as someone who's argued data with you, you just argue that the data is wrong, or that I'm misrepresenting/interpreting it and that down is really up, and fewer is actually more. GǪall of which I could actually prove by pointing to the data. In particular, your fondness for arguing population movements by selecting a very small portion and ignoring the larger trend was a very obvious and gross misrepresentation and/or misinterpretation of that data. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1855
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:33:00 -
[276] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Sentamon wrote:I'll take Hilmar over any other CEO in the MMO scene, anyday.
The MMO's out there are such complete money milking garbage people should build a statue for this man and we should thank him daily for not taking EVE into the gutter yet.
So things didn't work out for other games he tried, big F deal. Nothing ventured nothing gained. He could have easily sold out to the likes of EA and spent his millions on hookers and blow. So you are saying that Hilmar has not tried to milk us, the players for more money... seriously?
Did I say that? No. Are you trying to put words into my mouth? Yes.
Reading comprehension is your friend. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:39:00 -
[277] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Tippia, as someone who's argued data with you, you just argue that the data is wrong, or that I'm misrepresenting/interpreting it and that down is really up, and fewer is actually more. GǪall of which I could actually prove by pointing to the data. In particular, your fondness for arguing population movements by selecting a very small portion and ignoring the larger trend was a very obvious and gross misrepresentation and/or misinterpretation of that data.
Tippia, your argument was that the average weekly server population was less important than the weekend server population. While, if we were looking strictly at weekend to weekend, you're right, but we're looking at several months to see if overall player participation is increasing or decreasing. By your own admission, you were filtering in a way that dismissed entire play styles as being irrelevant to the overall player population. I'll grant that average server pop gets some anomalies, but frankly anything that ignores playstyles that tend to have activity spikes (say, PvP or Incursions?) does not represent real server activity, but rather your preconceived notion of what server activity SHOULD be. I grant that an average also mutes those a bit, but it does include them.
I'm not faulting your data collection, I'm faulting your analysis methodology. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1855
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:41:00 -
[278] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: 2. Null sec is a stagnant mess, that is boring a whole bunch of null sec players to death, and they are leaving.
Now now .. I think we should congratulate CFC for picking up another 700 members.
Things will surely pickup any day now, perhaps some exciting nullsec industry that will bring people back in droves. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Deltarus Shadowflight
The Ascended Academy
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:49:00 -
[279] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Deltarus Shadowflight wrote:Any way, like I said, this is just from what I have done with a little bit of research. I was worried that things where going slow for CCP and the media that does cover this stuff seems to like pointing readers in the wrong direction on speculation as well. Stop guessing and start reading. Stay informed and make decisions on that information, not the speculation of snippet information or others random flying comments. Page 6CCP Games Financial Statement Dec 31 2013Page 43 in reference to obligation to stakeholders[url=http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47392/ccp%206%20month%20update%20september%2023%202013.pdf[/url] I actually recommend page 5 on that one where CCP takes a 21m loss for the year. The one you actually want is the six month financials that end in June. We then compare them to the same ones this year when they're released. That gives us our 'same period' comparison between this year and last. You investor manual isn't actually that useful. The real numbers come from the year end paper, which is not as rosy.
If they hadn't added $40 million extra to that years budget for R&D they would have been $19 million in the black... as I said, they need to get cash coming in till they finish these projects. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22443
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:51:00 -
[280] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Tippia, your argument was that the average weekly server population was less important than the weekend server population. No, it was not. That's just something you've just made up.
Quote:By your own admission, you were filtering in a way that dismissed entire play styles as being irrelevant to the overall player population. No, not that either. That was just something you assumed. I filtered the data to get comparable data points. Would you like to venture a guess what happens if you pick a different (still comparable) set of data points?
Quote:I'm not faulting your data collection, I'm faulting your analysis methodology. GǪand I'm now faulting your fallacious arguments.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Deltarus Shadowflight
The Ascended Academy
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:53:00 -
[281] - Quote
. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:59:00 -
[282] - Quote
Deltarus Shadowflight wrote:
If they hadn't added $40 million extra to that years budget for R&D they would have been $19 million in the black... as I said, they need to get cash coming in till they finish these projects.
It' was not so much that as they're being overly optimistic about income growth. I suspect that they thought they'ed get more out of licensing to Tian City.
The problem is that all of this data explains the layoffs that had happened early in the year, logically losing enough people that predicted income would be greater than outlays. Since they suddenly let go a bunch right near the end of the 6 months, I suspect that income again fell short, possibly caused by a decline in subs. The last is just my theory, and we won't know for certain until the 6 month comes out.
Tippia wrote:No, not that either. That was just something you assumed. I filtered the data to get comparable data points. Would you like to venture a guess what happens if you pick a different (still comparable) set of data points?
One, that's exactly what you said you did. You did noise filtering to eliminate major activity spikes. As I pointed out at the time, that's also going to filter out things like Incursions, big fleet fights, etc.
Two, the average server population for a week are comparable datapoints between weeks, when we're talking about several months worth of data. Using that average is the best way to get a picture of the overall activity trend for a period of six months or more.
Tell you what, do a set for the average activity from the work week, and one for the weekends, and then compare the two. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 16:06:00 -
[283] - Quote
(double post) |
Deltarus Shadowflight
The Ascended Academy
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 16:24:00 -
[284] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
It' was not so much that as they're being overly optimistic about income growth. I suspect that they thought they'ed get more out of licensing to Tian City.
The problem is that all of this data explains the layoffs that had happened early in the year, logically losing enough people that predicted income would be greater than outlays. Since they suddenly let go a bunch right near the end of the 6 months, I suspect that income again fell short, possibly caused by a decline in subs. The last is just my theory, and we won't know for certain until the 6 month comes out.
In that case, if you read a little bit more ....
Financial Report 2012 "EVE Online ended the year with approximately 490,000"
Financial Report 2013 "EVE Online celebrated its 10th anniversary in May and ended the year with over 500,000 subscribers"
The information is there, no one has to play guess/speculate game if you want to spend the time looking for officially released information. Admittedly, this doesn't prove they kept or paid for these subscription. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1496
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 16:33:00 -
[285] - Quote
thread temporarily locked for some cleaning. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22446
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 20:05:00 -
[286] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Bottom line is this:
CCP has two big problems, both that are driving away subs.
1. The attack on high sec, particularly the casual players, is intensifying. Crius is going to be a hammer blow to many. 2. Null sec is a stagnant mess, that is boring a whole bunch of null sec players to death, and they are leaving. If you look at seagull's flow charts, it is likely at least 12 months before any serious work is done on smashing null sec gridlock. Just one question: do you have any evidence to support that either of those are happening? Especially considering that Crius will boost all areas of space and make them more dynamic, and give casual players more things to do.
If anything, Crius shows that they're trying to actually get a grasp on what people are doing in the game and correcting a number of long-standing problems (which aren't the ones you keep blaming since those are pretty much completely imaginary). Just the fact that they've gone back to adjust things in response to player feedback suggests that neither the problem nor the cause are what you suggest they are. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
548
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 20:20:00 -
[287] - Quote
Deltarus Shadowflight wrote:In that case, if you read a little bit more .... Financial Report 2012 "EVE Online ended the year with approximately 490,000" Financial Report 2013 "EVE Online celebrated its 10th anniversary in May and ended the year with over 500,000 subscribers" The information is there, no one has to play guess/speculate game if you want to spend the time looking for officially released information. Admittedly, this doesn't prove they kept or paid for these subscription.
What we'd need is the 2013 and 2014 information. Further, as the investor papers state, in 2013 they started also including the Chinese server subs with the sub count, even though CCP only gets the licensing fee from Tian City for those subs. So a 10k boost in subs is actually pretty lousy considering previously they didn't count an entire server.
Between 12 and 13 subs and in game sales did increase (by 8m dollars) and saleries for 'R&D' only increased by 6m dollars, with a net gain of about 50 people. So their 'R&D' losses mostly came from sources besides manpower. |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 20:47:00 -
[288] - Quote
Im a little worried now. Not so much as to the layoff's but CCP having to start counting the subs on the chinese eve server to show an increase in subs.
Is eve dying? |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
550
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 20:54:00 -
[289] - Quote
Pine Marten wrote:Im a little worried now. Not so much as to the layoff's but CCP having to start counting the subs on the chinese eve server to show an increase in subs.
Is eve dying?
That has yet to be seen. A lot of pixels have been spilled on this subject, but 'dying' is, as of yet, a bit strong a word. I would say that it's growth has slowed and we may see a decline in subs. but even a drop does not equate 'dying'. |
Prince Kobol
1922
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 20:55:00 -
[290] - Quote
Pine Marten wrote:Im a little worried now. Not so much as to the layoff's but CCP having to start counting the subs on the chinese eve server to show an increase in subs.
Is eve dying?
No, they are doing what every other company does and that is use every method they can to boost subs numbers.
As for the "Is Eve Dying" well it depends on your point of view.
If you take a look at http://eve-offline.net/ and look how the PCU is doing then some might say yes, other will say no, both sides giving many different reasons.
CCP sudden silence on how subs are doing might be taken as another indication all is not well, yet you could say that most companies do not give subs numbers so again no really information.
You could use your own judgement based on what you see in game, again this will differ from person to person.
My own view is that Eve is not dying but it is in a period of stagnation and that the loss of a lot of great devs can only harm the game. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1496
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 22:15:00 -
[291] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post.
The Rules: 26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2979
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 22:32:00 -
[292] - Quote
It seems to me that CCPs problem - besides a couple of Mr Psssshhh clueless higher ups making decisions - is that they're being extremely scatterbrained. They get an idea, start pursuing it, but don't give it the time, effort and resources it really needs. If they want to try and make another cool game and not just be solely devoted to EVE, that's great, they should totally try and do that. But they need to do it smart.
Plan on making one new game, not two, or three, simultaneously. Put a lot of attention and resources and effort into this Other Game, and focus. Even now, after all these repeat failures, all the layoffs, etc, they're still splitting themselves in many other directions - valkyrie AND legion, as well the obvious continued EVE development. And it's going to end in tears. They simply don't have the resources, or the experience, to work on both those projects (and continue EVE) simultaneously and have them both be as good as they could be. One, or both of them, will flop, because the same mistakes are clearly being made yet again - pulling themselves in many different directions at once.
I'm concerned that other mistakes, which they've made in the past and are mentioned in the article, are likely going to be repeated too, such as chopping and changing teams, abruptly reducing the teams by pulling them back onto eve things, or in other directions, or Mr Pssshhhs standing their making it impossible for those new projects to even know what they're supposed to be doing.
Will any of us be surprised if valkyrie AND legion both end up as failures in one way or another? Will CCP, and will they learn from it?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22449
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 22:50:00 -
[293] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Bottom line is this:
CCP has two big problems, both that are driving away subs.
1. The attack on high sec, particularly the casual players, is intensifying. Crius is going to be a hammer blow to many. 2. Null sec is a stagnant mess, that is boring a whole bunch of null sec players to death, and they are leaving. If you look at seagull's flow charts, it is likely at least 12 months before any serious work is done on smashing null sec gridlock.
Both these issue smack of executives and / or high level game designers who are completely out of touch with the hobby of Eve. The problem is that there is little evidence to support the notion that those are actually big problems or that they are driving away subs. The fact that they've actually delayed Crius to take player feedback into account and to do the exact opposite of what you're claiming, i.e. they're increasing the uses and dynamism of all space and providing more things to do for casual players, suggests that both your hypothesised cause and your assumed effect either false or not connected.
The first one in particular does not smack of GÇ£executives out of touch with the hobby of EVEGÇ¥, but rather of a dreamed-up problem that is very obviously not connected to any kind of management or developer problems they might be having. Moreover, looking at the litany of long-time issues being addressed in Crius suggests that they are actually trying to reverse the decrease in PCUs as opposed to it being a cause for that decrease. The causality you're suggesting here doesn't really make much sense.
Hopefully, Crius will do what it is supposed to do and bring back enough numbers to let them avoid more these kinds of lay-offs in the future. Sov is still an issue, sure, but it's not really one of GÇ£gridlockGÇ¥, nor is it one that is addressed by Seagull's plans. That one requires a different solution but again, Crius offers up some new dynamics that could help stem the tide. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Marsha Mallow
953
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 23:11:00 -
[294] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Bottom line is this:
CCP has two big problems, both that are driving away subs.
1. The attack on high sec, particularly the casual players, is intensifying. Crius is going to be a hammer blow to many. 2. Null sec is a stagnant mess, that is boring a whole bunch of null sec players to death, and they are leaving. If you look at seagull's flow charts, it is likely at least 12 months before any serious work is done on smashing null sec gridlock.
Both these issue smack of executives and / or high level game designers who are completely out of touch with the hobby of Eve. Hopefully, Crius will do what it is supposed to do and bring back enough numbers to let them avoid more these kinds of lay-offs in the future. Sov is still an issue, sure, but it's not really one of GÇ£gridlockGÇ¥, nor is it one that is addressed by Seagull's plans. That one requires a different solution but again, Crius offers up some new dynamics that could help stem the tide. Still, that's the first time I've seen him acknowledge just how bad nullsec is atm. I think attrition rates are higher there than people realise (a lot of corps are bloated beyond belief with unsubbed players). I'm cautiously optimistic that the development plan will address it but a bit worried it might be too late. Maybe they do need to add back in some 'jesus' features to spark periodic sub revivals, but if there are severe corporate problems I'm not sure how that can be done successfully.
Can't agree that Crius will cause a highsec apocalypse though, and all joking aside I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting. The serious industrialists will adapt to the changes, that's why there's something like 500 pages of feedback on the Dev blog proposals. Smaller scale players who dabble in indy weren't that focused on profit/effiiciency in the first place. Making it slightly more difficult/less profitable isn't going to hurt them that much. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
ISquishWorms
239
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 23:25:00 -
[295] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:It seems to me that CCPs problem - besides a couple of Mr Psssshhh clueless higher ups making decisions - is that they're being extremely scatterbrained. They get an idea, start pursuing it, but don't give it the time, effort and resources it really needs. If they want to try and make another cool game and not just be solely devoted to EVE, that's great, they should totally try and do that. But they need to do it smart.
Plan on making one new game, not two, or three, simultaneously. Put a lot of attention and resources and effort into this Other Game, and focus. Even now, after all these repeat failures, all the layoffs, etc, they're still splitting themselves in many other directions - valkyrie AND legion, as well the obvious continued EVE development. And it's going to end in tears. They simply don't have the resources, or the experience, to work on both those projects (and continue EVE) simultaneously and have them both be as good as they could be. One, or both of them, will flop, because the same mistakes are clearly being made yet again - pulling themselves in many different directions at once.
I'm concerned that other mistakes, which they've made in the past and are mentioned in the article, are likely going to be repeated too, such as chopping and changing teams, abruptly reducing the teams by pulling them back onto eve things, or in other directions, or Mr Pssshhhs standing their making it impossible for those new projects to even know what they're supposed to be doing.
Will any of us be surprised if valkyrie AND legion both end up as failures in one way or another? Will CCP, and will they learn from it?
I agree, sure work on other projects but not if that means your main souce of income product suffers. GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ. |
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 00:13:00 -
[296] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote: I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting.
Hello? Are we even playing the same game here?
Let's start with the two most basic reasons that the majority would list
1. tears 2. lulz
|
Marsha Mallow
961
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 00:18:00 -
[297] - Quote
Regnag Leppod wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote: I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting. Hello? Are we even playing the same game here? Let's start with the two most basic reasons that the majority would list 1. tears 2. lulz Don't partially quote. "All joking aside" was the relevant bit. But yeah, OK, there are some people who would watch the game die for tears and lulz. Luckily nobody really pays attention to them (they're not right, in the head).
Thanks for your remark my beloved NPC alt BFF, pillar of our community. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
550
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 00:39:00 -
[298] - Quote
Regnag Leppod wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote: I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting. Hello? Are we even playing the same game here? Let's start with the two most basic reasons that the majority would list 1. tears 2. lulz
The founding principal of Goonswarm in it's earliest days. Fortunately, most of them realized that, properly maintained, Eve is a source of infinite amounts of those. |
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 02:07:00 -
[299] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Regnag Leppod wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote: I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting. Hello? Are we even playing the same game here? Let's start with the two most basic reasons that the majority would list 1. tears 2. lulz The founding principal of Goonswarm in it's earliest days. Fortunately, most of them realized that, properly maintained, Eve is a source of infinite amounts of those.
Goonswarm may have had that as a founding principal (and may yet), but even if they gave up on it, it turned into "the popular thing to do". Industrialists and PvE minded players in general are the most despised players in Eve, and it would be to the glee of hundreds of thousands if CCP pushed them out of the game. In fact, I'd say that the majority want it bad enough, that they'd risk killing Eve just to see it done. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
327
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 02:44:00 -
[300] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote: Can't agree that Crius will cause a highsec apocalypse though, and all joking aside I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting. The serious industrialists will adapt to the changes...
I'd like to add to this. My post is based on the assumption of proper implementation of features in Crius as they were presented by devs (devblogs and forum discussions).
Crius sure adds a lot of change to industry and it has its downsides as all systems do. But those calling it a doom for highsec are not really reading what the changes will bring. Crius will not bring more difficulty and less profit. Quite the contrary. I caught myself stopping production lines of my industrial alt because I couldn't be bothered to work in the current old system in anticipation of the new one. A lot of what Crius will bring is making the life of an industrialist much easier since it brings so much opportunities.
Industrialists will not be hit by Crius - they will prosper, even individuals not belonging to any large entity. The cries of doom are coming either from those not understanding the implications of changes or by those who got space rich of the current system and are afraid to lose their cash cows (aka. methods of operation).
Pure PvP-ers, on the other hand, will get hit by higher prices. As far as I see it, the only thing that could lower the prices is abundance of base materials locally (0.0 and highsec).
Nullsec has means to secure their material extraction operations or to increase resource exploitation, since it's already a renter heaven out there. The problem will be highsec mining with the increasing number of corporations whose primary activity is suicide ganking, which is a change in demographics introduced only recently (a year or two ago.. it's "recent" since EVE is already 11 ). I'm not against suicide ganking... far from it. My observation is just that game designers and player community should find a way to guide or encourage new players or players that are not that interested in PvP to explore other options when it comes to where and how to mine/PvE relatively safely. And no, I'm not talking about what CODE. is doing by "educating" the miners, since that gets immediately discarded as pure alliance propaganda at best.
Highsec players, especially the sort of players who want to gather resources first when they get into a new game in order to be free to play it properly later, are endangered species now. Those are the players that don't interact much because they simply don't understand the community or the environment yet. Sure, they come into the game attracted by the open economy and potential for mass PvP, but having talked to many newbies during my 8 year EVE "career", they usually start the game by skilling, grinding and gathering resources before they even think to get involved in the massive multiplayer aspect. There is an increasing chance that during that "character development" phase, they get slap in the face with a suicide gank. Usually no one quits after first time, but I have noticed that the 3rd time is a breaking point to a large percentage of them.
The thing that keeps them from looking for alternatives is thinking that they couldn't possibly be safer anywhere than in high security space. What can be done? Well, for a start, I'm going to discard looking at suicide ganking altogether, because suicide ganking is only the amplifier, not a cause for the problems. Solution of my in-game friends and me, which worked in most occasions, was to literally drag them (newbies) to nullsec and W-Space and show them that the real security is not in highsec space, but in a player group.
However, there have been significant obstacles in game design that makes even this direct approach fail miserably. Industry in nullsec was (is?) dead. A player could not sustain meaningful production lines while being a simple member of a large alliance. No simple player is ever allowed to run their own POS in nullsec and station slots were always a limiting factor. Sure, there are regions of nullsec where there are free slots, but you can't even think of employing 3 account alts (30 production lines at lvl 4 skill) without mostly maxing out the capacity of the stations. This discourages industry before it even started. Another bad thing was lack of low level minerals, which was addressed some time ago with ABC ore low-end increase and will be tweaked again in Crius.
Wormholes suffers (or have suffered) from a whole range of problems. POSes being the dominant one. Then came the inability to even fit subsystems to T3 ships (which have been fixed only recently, almost 4 years after Apocrypha) and as far as I know, you still can't assemble a T3 ship on POS. Mining for local needs, mostly ammo or basic ship production, in W-space was catastrophic because of the design of refining arrays and the fact that Ice should be imported certainly doesn't help. Most of the players that left the game after they have been introduced to other areas of space than higsec have left because of the "attrition warfare" inflicted by small but crippling bad game mechanics.
Many of the problems for this direct player retention method that I've mentioned are going to be resolved in Crius, but the game design must continue in this direction if we want to keep newbies in the game. Suicide ganking doesn't help in keeping the players, but it does help significantly with amplifying the problems in seemingly unrelated areas of the game that cause players to leave whether they have been a victim of a gank or not.
I should really start my own EVE blog (would anyone read it ) My signature got stolen (o.0) |
|
Deltarus Shadowflight
The Ascended Academy
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 02:48:00 -
[301] - Quote
Regnag Leppod wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Regnag Leppod wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote: I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting. Hello? Are we even playing the same game here? Let's start with the two most basic reasons that the majority would list 1. tears 2. lulz The founding principal of Goonswarm in it's earliest days. Fortunately, most of them realized that, properly maintained, Eve is a source of infinite amounts of those. Goonswarm may have had that as a founding principal (and may yet), but even if they gave up on it, it turned into "the popular thing to do". Industrialists and PvE minded players in general are the most despised players in Eve, and it would be to the glee of hundreds of thousands if CCP pushed them out of the game. In fact, I'd say that the majority want it bad enough, that they'd risk killing Eve just to see it done.
I never understood why you hate them so much. This is a sandbox game, its there to be played how ever you want it to be played. People complain when CCP steps in and tells you how you should do things and makes changes, yet you feel that its ok to do that to others players? They are doing their own thing, its the gankers that are swooping in and cause them a problem, not the other way around. I can understand the fun of ganking as well but no as a goal to push people out. In that mind set, is it ok to for CCP to ban your account because they dont like the idea of you playing that way? |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
308
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 12:43:00 -
[302] - Quote
Anathema Device wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:As someone who has been around long enough and watched how CCP does things, this really isn't a surprise at all.
Watching CCP over the years has been like watching a train slowly derail. That is too harsh. Over the years CCP have provided you with more than one train wreck to watch. CCP does deserve praise for continual improvement to EVE over the years.
No they don't. They really, really don't.
They have done an exceptionally poor job of fleshing the game out with the manpower they've been provided with and have instead spun their marketing in such a way as to make it the players responsibility to provide content and not the developer. Just another form of guilt shifting. Nearly any competent rival studio could've done more with less. The art team getting trumped so easily on the captain's quarters was very telling of that. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2441
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 12:57:00 -
[303] - Quote
I hope Dr Eyjo went of to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.
I am all in favour of the massive ship re-balancing and the improvements to industry etc, but it would help if CCP shared its vision of the games future in a bit more detail than 'stuff'
I only do day (death) trips to null, but would love to see the entire thing overhauled so that the folk there can enjoy it more, and perhaps encourage small stakeholders (remember them?) to move there.
I am always sorry to see folk laid off from any job and wish them all a good, employed future. This is not a signature. |
Tairon Usaro
ZERO T0LERANCE RAZOR Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 15:31:00 -
[304] - Quote
1st) my best wishes for the ones that have to leave CCP. I hope quickly find new jobs. Heads up, many of us have gone through this (including myself) and many of those say retrospectively that this enforced change was the best thing that ever happened to them, because otherwise they never would have left the little box they used to live in and never discovered that there is a different world out there.
2nd) the ones still working for CCP: keep up the good work ! I would assume that it is quite hard to keep faith in your employer right now, but keep doing it. During the last 3 fanfests I observed how much the business culture of software development improved. That was you and I know it was a tough process. Keep continuing it. You are on the right track
|
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1196
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 03:58:00 -
[305] - Quote
The last comment there is the right answer.
WE wish the best for those who have lost their jobs and for those left behind. We hope they all manage in this difficult time of transition.
Save the rest of it for another thread, ok?
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10395
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 05:00:00 -
[306] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Save the rest of it for another thread, ok? Other threads get locked. Have you not been paying attention?
According to CCP and ISD, this is the thread for it. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10395
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 05:02:00 -
[307] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship. He's head of analytics at CCP and has been since March, according to his LinkedIn page. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11850
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 05:15:00 -
[308] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.
I believe he is now in charge of Icelands university. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
750
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 05:15:00 -
[309] - Quote
CCP Falcon posted this on the dust forum:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164773&p=3 #56 Posted: 2014.06.08 20:26 19 Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:
Guys, I urge you to wait until you can hear more from CCP this coming week, there is some patently false information included in this video. There is most certainly community staff and devs at CCP for CPM1 to work with, this idea that CCP has left the community with nobody just isn't true. It's sad that Saberwing and Eterne as gone, but others will be stepping up and the work on both Dust and Legion will continue.
"Keep calm, they will attempt to save their asses this week from looking bad."
Looking forward to that blue tag post. I expect nothing but the best corporate speak and misdirection.
Here's your blue tagged post, and no misdirection here at all.
The fact of the matter is, we're not going to go out with a megaphone and start screaming the names of people who were let go out of both personal and professional courtesy for those involved. Feel free to say what you will about professional and personal courtesy, but extremely hard decisions had to be made over the last week and on a personal note, I'm completely devastated that two fantastic members of the Community Team, and two great friends and colleagues were let go.
I wish both CCP Eterne and CCP Saberwing all the best for the future, and have no doubt in my mind that these two extremely talented guys will land firmly on their feet.
Similarly, the CPM are also not going to start screaming names of people who were let go. The CPM is not, and never will be, a source of gossip for the community. Anyone who thinks so, can strip that mentality out of their heads. It's not going to happen.
It's very true that the CPM have known about this since Friday (June 6), when I had a meeting with them at 20:00 UTC to discuss what has happened. They've acted extremely professionally over this, and have respected the fact that there are people behind these avatars, who've had their livelihoods and careers affected.
I'd like to personally thank the CPM for the manner in which they've handled this news, for their display of professionalism and integrity in absorbing and dealing with this information.
In the end, rest assured that development of DUST 514 and work on Project Legion remains unchanged, and will progress uninterrupted.
In the same respect, the CPM will continue to function. CCP Logibro has been, and will continue to remain, the CPM Coordinator. This has been his role since he came to CCP, and will continue to be his role moving forward. He has done, and will continue to own the CPM project for as long as I remain Community Manager with CCP.
The operation of, and future plans for the CPM will not be affected. If anything, going forward I'll be looking toward assisting CCP Logibro in pushing the CPM into the same, far more active role with DUST development that the CSM holds with EVE development.
I do not believe that there is compromise when it comes to using the CPM's knowledge and voice to assist us. The CSM is in it's 9th term now, and there are a lot of lessons that have already been learned in the previous 8 terms that can be carried over into the operation of the CPM.
On a note more concerning structure, the Community Team here at CCP has now been unified, which puts us in a position where all members of the team will now be working on community projects for DUST 514, Project Legion, EVE: Valkyrie and EVE Online going forward.
The community team is now made up of:
CCP Falcon CCP Frame CCP Gargant CCP Guard CCP Leeloo CCP Logibro CCP Phantom
I'm in the position where I hold the role of Community Manager, which will include serving as Community Manager for DUST 514 at the very least temporarily until we sit down and redefine people's roles to cover everything that needs to be considered.
Myself and the entire roster of the community team are seasoned veterans of New Eden, and we're on hand to make sure that you guys get the best experience possible. It's going to take us a little time to process all this, get over the fact that we've had to watch two really good friends and outstanding colleagues be let go, but I'm very confident that the team will pull together and deliver once we square things away.
The reason that this message didn't come sooner is simple - we were dealing with some incredibly bad news and had to sit down and assess the situation before deciding how to move forward. We're human, just like you guys. With that in mind, my attitude may seem a bit short in this post, for that I apologize, I'm usually incredibly direct in the way I address people, and to add to that, it's been a very upsetting week for a lot of us here at CCP.
In the same respect, I'm not going to tolerate rumor milling and the posting of blatant garbage regarding the CPM, or any of my friends and colleagues, including CCP staff and members of the Community. Anyone who wants to rumor mill and/or post garbage will be on the receiving end of a long summer vacation from the forums.
On that note, I'll extend the same offer I do to the EVE Community, because you guys are equally as important to the future of New Eden:
If you have concerns, issues, or feel like you'd like clarification, either on the forums or in private, either feel free to EVEmail my Dev character, catch me on twitter at @CCP_Falcon or catch me here on the forums, and I'm more than happy to talk.
Cheers,
- F If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
750
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 05:19:00 -
[310] - Quote
Also posted these posts
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164773&p=4
#66 Posted: 2014.06.08 21:06 5 Jadek Menaheim wrote: I wonder how the Eve bros are responding to this news? CCP's Lapdog and Captain Crutches pointed out on twitter that CCP Manifest and CCP Mimic are not on that list of the new Community Team. CCP Falcon wrote: The community team is now made up of:
CCP Falcon CCP Frame CCP Gargant CCP Guard CCP Leeloo CCP Logibro CCP Phantom
CCP Mimic isn't part of the Community Team, she works elsewhere in the company, but lends the team a LOT of help when she's not too busy.
Likewise, CCP Manifest is not part of the Community Team. He's our Senior PR guy, but sometimes works alongside the Community team when needed.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
- F
Gemini Cuspid wrote: You can accuse of m@@hattery but when I hear statements such as
Seasoned veteran of EVE the same courtesy I extend to EVE players redefining roles
The implicit message I am getting that is subtly hidden and tucked away is this:
You might want to re-read what I posted:
CCP Falcon wrote: Myself and the entire roster of the community team are seasoned veterans of New Eden
New Eden does not equal EVE. New Eden consists of all our products that are currently playable.
You can read between the lines as much as you like, but when it boils down to it, it's in our best interests to have the communities of both DUST 514 and EVE in a healthy state.
Argue all you like and attempt to read between the lines, but that's our objective.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2444
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 06:42:00 -
[311] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.
I believe he is now in charge of Icelands university.
I am aware of that, but what I posted still stands.
But thank you for being helpful by bring this fact to the attention of those who were not aware of the good Dr career move. This is not a signature. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10395
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 06:53:00 -
[312] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:baltec1 wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.
I believe he is now in charge of Icelands university. I am aware of that, but what I posted still stands. But thank you for being helpful by bring this fact to the attention of those who were not aware of the good Dr career move. But I'm pretty sure despite that he's still at CCP. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 08:24:00 -
[313] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:baltec1 wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.
I believe he is now in charge of Icelands university. I am aware of that, but what I posted still stands. But thank you for being helpful by bring this fact to the attention of those who were not aware of the good Dr career move. But I'm pretty sure despite that he's still at CCP.
Dr. Eyjogg is rector of the Akureyri University. That's a full time job even in a small university.
The part that interested me about Dr. Eyjogg's career change is that he was not just the resident economist, but he also was tasked with new player retention. Looks like getting new players has become essentially a lost cause to cCP.
Every layoff is a disaster, and as FunkyBacon stated, it's a failure of management; when you let go someone like Xhagen, whose whole professional career can be resumed as "I worked for CCP for 11 years", you can bet that something really bad is going on behind the scenes.
Despite Falcon's soothing words, it begs to wonder who exactly is going to work in Legion and why should those devs work on Legion rather than EVE; and from the point of view of someone who's been seeing this kind of stuff coming for years since Incarna crashed and burned, it begs to wonder whether CCP is taking the appropiate steps.
It's not just that currently I am the only person I knew when I started who still is active (an that because of Humble Bundle); even some people I met last year are gone, succumbed to the 3 years expiracy date of anyone who doesn't involves in PvP. And what do CCP plan to do? Push people harder into PvP by all means possible, from punishing hisec PvE with nigarddly rewards to plain delivering new PvE only to lowsec, and further goal of handing the next Jesus feature (player built stargates and New Space) to nullsec alliances alone.
And I wonder how do they plan to keep paying the bills once they've told to 80% of their subscribers to HTFU or go away, and who was the briliant head who perpretated such approach to EVE's dirty secret: the people who PAY the game are not PLAYING it.
Rather than try and retain the 80% longer by figuring what's wrong with EVE for them, they are attempting to push/lure them into becoming a part of the 20% who haves a long tenure by taking EVE as it happened to become.
Well, we would do much more than "level our Ravens" if CCP gave us the tools, rather than force us to deal with neverending play sessions which cannot be postponed, prevailing and riskless griefing and outnumbering as the alpha and omega of combat. Looks like David Braben and Chris Roberts know how to do that, but hey, these guys already were making top notch videogames when CCP was at school... Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
|
The Icefox
Origin. Black Legion.
2
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 10:52:00 -
[314] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:TMC reports that also CCP Xhagen and CCP Loxy are gone. Unless I'm wrong, CCP fired 19 developers in december, 56 in april, and now 49. That's a good bunch of people.
I'm stealing your sig. I think its highly appropriate.
Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves. Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A:-á Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or X¦¦h¦¦a¦¦g¦¦e¦¦n¦¦ leaves. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
333
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 11:08:00 -
[315] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: Well, we would do much more than "level our Ravens" if CCP gave us the tools, rather than force us to deal with neverending play sessions which cannot be postponed, prevailing and riskless griefing and outnumbering as the alpha and omega of combat. Looks like David Braben and Chris Roberts know how to do that, but hey, these guys already were making top notch videogames when CCP was at school...
I honestly don't know which game are you mentioning here.
- EVE has never been about never ending play session for me; - I could always postpone my play time, from hours to months without any issues; - I have never been a victim of "risk-less griefing" (I'm assuming it's suicide ganking you are talking about), nor I have participated in one... (ok.. maybe once... it was new year's eve and I was drunk.. don't ask); - I have tried blob warfare for a year, got bored with it and continued to play like I want to; - I always had a choice of how to engage in combat;
But I guess: - it's easier and more in-game rewarding to play long sessions than to set expectations of people with who you are playing with and be clear that you have a life outside the game. Sure, you won't progress as fast in the game if you avoid marathon playing sessions, which for me, after 8 years of playing, doesn't mean a thing;
- it's easier to complain about not being able to postpone play sessions than to organize your gameplay in a way that you can always do that and not loose anything valuable;
- it's easier to be a victim of "risk-less griefieng" than to use the tools you have at your disposal: blockade runners and collateralized freight services like Red Frog and PushX.
- it's easier to be in a blob or complain about blobs when you can't be bothered to look for PvP in another area. Apart from lowsec and NPC 0.0, there are hundreds of renter systems in player owned 0.0 space where you can hunt solo or in a small gang as much as you like. Their renter agreements usually don't allow them to even make defense fleets that can go to other systems. Renter agreements for all major factions are freely available on their respectable websites and renting forum threads. And if that's not enough, W-Space is made of thousands of systems where small scale or even solo PvP are pretty much the only thing you will get (apart from rare coalition based ops which happen once in 2-3 months);
- it's easier to follow orders of the FC and push F1 when needed, than to FC yourself or even do solo PvP because being an FC or flying solo requires much more effort;
Yes, there are problems in the game, but none of the things you have listed are among them. Those are not the problems of the game, but rather the problems of your game.
And I'm not posting here to flame or criticize, I'm just trying to show you that EVE can be much more than you currently see. There are many ways to improve the quality of your game:
- try enlisting in some of the PvP classes, especially those who teach you how to become an FC. EVE-University and Agony Unleashed, for example. There are many others, but I can't remember them right now. (I actually plan to enlist myself as well, just to see what they are teaching and for a new experience);
- try Red vs Blue. Small cost Frig/destroyer/t1 cruiser PvP can be much more fun than it sounds. I've done that (confirmation in my corp history)
- try joining a 0.0 alliance that already has an established blob. That way you can even go hunt solo even when there's a blob active and you won't be missed. I've done that in Morsus Mihi, when I just couldn't join the blob for whatever reason, but I still was in the alliance that was arguably the head of the old NC (the very definition of blob warfare).
- be a pirate. Roam the renter space (hint: it's the whole eastern and south western part of the 0.0 map at the moment). You can finish the roam faster that they can organize a defense fleet, I guarantee it.
- join a wormhole corp. Many great guys are there and many good fights happen regularly. There are even unwritten agreements and conventions when it comes to PvP in higher classes of W-Space in order to make it as fun as possible for both participating sides. Or you can just roam freely;
- try out Factional warfare. Sure, there are a lot of warp-stabbed t1 frig alts in plexes, but you can always find decent opponents willing to play. And the best part is, a 10 man cruiser gang in is mostly considered a "blob" in militia chat channels. My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5051
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 11:37:00 -
[316] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: Looks like David Braben and Chris Roberts know how to do that, but hey, these guys already were making top notch videogames when CCP was at school...
Yeah Elite II and III were "brilliant" bugriddled messes that had no functioning combat system that utterly failed to live up to the awesomeness of the original (because Ian Bell was not involved), and Freelancer Online was stillborn.
"Top Notch" indeed "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22457
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 14:44:00 -
[317] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:And I wonder how do they plan to keep paying the bills once they've told to 80% of their subscribers to HTFU or go away, and who was the briliant head who perpretated such approach to EVE's dirty secret: the people who PAY the game are not PLAYING it.
Rather than try and retain the 80% longer by figuring what's wrong with EVE for them, they are attempting to push/lure them into becoming a part of the 20% who haves a long tenure by taking EVE as it happened to become. What makes you think they'd do something that silly? And what do you base your secret on? I also have to question the notion that they're attempting the kind of strategy you're describing GÇö if anything the last couple of expansions have contained more stuff to do or increased the viability of some of the choices that were already available, to the benefit of pretty much everyone.
If you're going to paint a bleak picture of the future, it kind of helps to at least show that it has some grounding in the current reality.
Quote:Well, we would do much more than "level our Ravens" if CCP gave us the tools, rather than force us to deal with neverending play sessions which cannot be postponed, prevailing and riskless griefing and outnumbering as the alpha and omega of combat. Looks like David Braben and Chris Roberts know how to do that, but hey, these guys already were making top notch videogames when CCP was at school... But that's just it: they have given us tools to deal with all of that GÇö more so in the last year or two than (almost) ever before. As for those other guys, yes, they made a decent game or two 20GÇô30 years ago. But they haven't particularly lived up to their own legacy ever since. They also made games that are vastly different from what EVE offers and are still sticking to that different genre, so what they know has little to no bearing on what CCP knows to do well. So why not mention the likes of Will Wright, John Carmac, or Tim Sweeny, who have actually produced something in recent history (and whose products are all vastly more popular)?
I'm not entirely sure that Braben and Roberts are what CCP should strive to emulate, game-wise or production-wise. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 18:06:00 -
[318] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote: (Well reasoned post with nice suggestions to engage into the "core" game)
Dude, you don't need to convince me, I am lost to PvP in EVE. Some people don't enjoy exploding player ships.Take my word for it, OK?
It's not about me or my issues with EVE.
It's that most people pay CCP to play a game that it's not the "core" of EVE, but the outskirts of it. And CCP is adressing that by pushing/luring those people out of the outskirts, hoping they will move towards the core rather than leave the game. Despite the evidence that those people will rather quit than be forced into another way of playing the game.
Latest case (just an instance): POCOs in empire space. People I knew personally left the game because they didn't wanted to pay taxes to other players, and the only way to avoid that was PvP, which they didn't wanted. By playing EVE their way, they painted a bullseye on themselves and were driven out of the game by CCP through a feature in which they weren't asked nor listened to.
That's what happens when you play the outskirts of EVE: commitment is low and anything can kill it. Now, maybe those people should had been given the abbility to bribe some NPC to build a NPC C.O. in their favorite planet, and anyone willing to change that should ahve been forced to engage in NPC interaction too... rather than just force PvErs to PvP, also force PvPrs to PvE. Is this stupid? Or just a way to even the odds for the 80% against the 20%?
Another instance: think about how wardecs work. Through wardecs, PvPrs can easily and risklessly force their playstyle on PvErs at any time. But they never risk being forced to PvE when PvErs fight back. The very idea looks silly, right? Yet this is how every year, thousands of players are driven out of the game.
The point is that rather than change the players, CCP should change the game. It can be done without betraying the spirit of EVE nor turning it into what it is not.
Rather than push the 80% harder than ever, CCP would be smart to start taking them seriously. Why would someone pay to mine, run missions, perform PI or build stuff in hisec? Why should that force those players into terrible content and negate them any chance to generate content? Why should they be subject to being forced to play in a different way by people who don't expose themselves to being forced too? How can PvE content become as good as PvP content?
CCP is doing what they think it's right, and they're fighting for their life so they will not change course easily. But they also are wrong, in my opinion. What kills you is not a deficit of what goes right, but an excess of what goes wrong.
80% of EVE players are not creating content. CCP can say, "the tools to create content exist, but the players are wrong", or can say "the tools that exist are only a fraction of all possible tools, and they are wrong for 80% of our customers so let's expand them". Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5062
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 18:14:00 -
[319] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: Another instance: think about how wardecs work. Through wardecs, PvPrs can easily and risklessly force their playstyle on PvErs at any time.
Er no
They can if their targets have walnuts for minds
But those of us who can think, Wardecs are meaningless and extremely easy to ignore
"If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "Question asked, insults exchanged, solutions given, face palms had, problem solved, off topic posts posted, thread locked." - ISD Ezwal |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10402
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 19:13:00 -
[320] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:Dr. Eyjogg is rector of the Akureyri University. That's a full time job even in a small university. So I was wrong about that. I tried searching for it but I couldn't find it anywhere. It should be pretty clear from this why he left though. It's pretty apparent that he left because it provided better opportunities than a gaming company could provide, not because CCP was struggling.
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:The part that interested me about Dr. Eyjogg's career change is that he was not just the resident economist, but he also was tasked with new player retention. Looks like getting new players has become essentially a lost cause to CCP. I'm pretty sure that if someone leaves a position at a company, someone is hired or moved to fill that position. I seriously doubt CCP went "oh, I guess new players probably don't matter." No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22458
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 20:07:00 -
[321] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:Latest case (just an instance): POCOs in empire space. People I knew personally left the game because they didn't wanted to pay taxes to other players, and the only way to avoid that was PvP, which they didn't wanted. By playing EVE their way, they painted a bullseye on themselves and were driven out of the game by CCP through a feature in which they weren't asked nor listened to. That really makes no sense. So what if they paid their taxes to other players GÇö they were going to pay regardless and chances are that their profit margins increased by the change. How on earth were they GÇ£driven out of the gameGÇ¥ when it had somewhere between zero and a positive impact on them as long as they just kept doing what they were doing? How does doing nothing paint a bulls-eye on them?
Quote:rather than just force PvErs to PvP, also force PvPrs to PvE. Is this stupid? Or just a way to even the odds for the 80% against the 20%? GǪbut no-one is being forced to PvP, so yes, it is pretty stupid since the foundation is entirely fictitious. And what are these percentages you keep throwing around?
Quote:The point is that rather than change the players, CCP should change the game. It can be done without betraying the spirit of EVE nor turning it into what it is not. That's what they're doing. No-one is being forced to do anything, and they're constantly changing the game to give everyone more tools and methods to define their own game.
Again, if you're going to claim doom is on the horizon, at least draw a line from the actual current state of things. The idea of changing the players was abandoned half a decade ago. These days, it only survives in the sense of GÇ¥replace the player baseGÇ¥ by changing the game completely GÇö a method that has killed every game that has attempted it. And the only ones who promote this idea are the ones who are looking for a completely different game; one that already has that different player base.
Quote:Rather than push the 80% harder than ever, CCP would be smart to start taking them seriously. Again, what is this GÇ£80%GÇ¥ you keep bringing up? Where did you get it from? And how are they being pushed at all, much less GÇ£harder than everGÇ¥? How has CCP disregarded them so far?
Quote:Why would someone pay to mine, run missions, perform PI or build stuff in hisec? Because the money has to go somewhere. As faucets and sinks are being shuffled around and/or buried under deeper layers of player activity, the exact points of entry and exit may shift, but the need to pay has always been there GÇö for good reason GÇö and will not go away since those reasons remain. Of course, two of those are entirely invented as well, but still, the reasons remain the same.
The game is a big market simulator. Taking ISK from one player and handing it off to the next is such a fundamental part of the game that it's rather shocking that people are upset they have to do it. And removing it means the already thinly stretched dev resources will have to be allocated to yet another project: a single-player EVE, with very dubious benefits and prospects compared to its current form. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
333
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 20:39:00 -
[322] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
I'm glad that you understood me the right way and your response was great
Anyway, to address forcing certain styles of game play that you have mentioned in the post linked in the quote. I agree completely that it exists. Your example of PI is perfect for this. PI in highsec was a side game that even I enjoyed casually without any delusions that it could make me rich. It was just a fun thing to do sometimes after the more active playing session (either PvP or PvE), just as a wrap up of my play time. A 100 or 200 mil a month from it was not the cause for me playing it, but it was a decent enough initiative to keep me interesting in the actual gameplay and optimizations of my colonies. But again, I was playing it semi-casually while there was a possibility to engage in some serious spreadsheets, multiple alts and production lines to make a decent game content of it. And even without that PI provided content for me as a player.
When POCOs hit the game, no matter how low certain corps charge for the export, I was under the impression that all my gameplay and colony optimization effort can at any time go down the drain if a player corporation that owns the CO lifts the taxes, or the COs switches hands to a corp that does the same. The idea was to engage the players in more interaction, but the basis of it was fundamentally flawed. Players that were engaged in PI in higsec are at best not interested to defend or fight for something that doesn't return much profit. With the introduction of POCOs, the fight was not for resources but for your niche play style in a game that was always great just because it offers so many niche play styles.
I have given up highsec PI and I know many others that did as well. ISK wise it's just not worth it, your playing effort and colony optimizations does not mean a thing any more and the gameplay that they provide now (wars to own them) I simply get in a myriad of other ways. PI in higsec was a great and relaxing side game for AFTER i have finished PvP sessions. It was a content that turned into something that I always already had and the decision to introduce POCOs literally killed of a side game that I liked because it was different from the other stuff I did - yes, including primarily PvP. My game is now more poor because of it.
And this is coming form a player that loves PvP, player interaction and in-game politics. Now imagine what impact does it have on players that do not like that. Forcing player interaction in this way is highly counter-productive. And by the way, player interaction in an open world sandbox with player driven market is everything and anything you do, no matter whether it's direct "shoot you in the face" PvP or not. That is something some of the devs have forgotten or simply refuse to believe. Expanding interaction should be done in a natural way and not by the "forced down the throat" game mechanics that have the capacity to kill a whole dimension of the game.
Oh, and one more thing... while we are at engaging players in more interaction. I can almost guarantee that I have managed to lure more players into the W-Space, in direct and pure engagement in player interaction, with CCP Dropbear's lore stories published back in Apocrypha than POCOs forced players to engage in interaction. And I'm not talking about role players or fiction geeks, I talking about a definition of believed ideal player profile - PvPer that provides PvP content and interaction as his primary play style. Putting a content in is always better than removing it by forcing it to be replaced by another content that already existed.
Regarding wardecs example you have mentioned: I don't completely agree with it, since it's still relatively easy to avoid war decs, but at the cost of breaking one player community in order to nurture the other. There has to be a balance between having a good opportunity to declare a war dec and to avoid one and I believe that the current system is good enough at doing that (certainly much better that the old one). My signature got stolen (o.0) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10404
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 20:52:00 -
[323] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:When POCOs hit the game, no matter how low certain corps charge for the export, I was under the impression that all my gameplay and colony optimization effort can at any time go down the drain if a player corporation that owns the CO lifts the taxes, or the COs switches hands to a corp that does the same. The idea was to engage the players in more interaction, but the basis of it was fundamentally flawed. Players that were engaged in PI in higsec are at best not interested to defend or fight for something that doesn't return much profit. With the introduction of POCOs, the fight was not for resources but for your niche play style in a game that was always great just because it offers so many niche play styles. I theorycrafted this in my head and it didn't work out, clearly it was a bad change. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 22:31:00 -
[324] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: I'm glad that you understood me the right way and your response was great Anyway, to address forcing certain styles of game play that you have mentioned in the post linked in the quote. I agree completely that it exists. Your example of PI is perfect for this. PI in highsec was a side game that even I enjoyed casually without any delusions that it could make me rich. It was just a fun thing to do sometimes after the more active playing session (either PvP or PvE), just as a wrap up of my play time. A 100 or 200 mil a month from it was not the cause for me playing it, but it was a decent enough initiative to keep me interesting in the actual gameplay and optimizations of my colonies. But again, I was playing it semi-casually while there was a possibility to engage in some serious spreadsheets, multiple alts and production lines to make a decent game content of it. And even without that PI provided content for me as a player. When POCOs hit the game, no matter how low certain corps charge for the export, I was under the impression that all my gameplay and colony optimization effort can at any time go down the drain if a player corporation that owns the CO lifts the taxes, or the COs switches hands to a corp that does the same. The idea was to engage the players in more interaction, but the basis of it was fundamentally flawed. Players that were engaged in PI in higsec are at best not interested to defend or fight for something that doesn't return much profit. With the introduction of POCOs, the fight was not for resources but for your niche play style in a game that was always great just because it offers so many niche play styles. I have given up highsec PI and I know many others that did as well. ISK wise it's just not worth it, your playing effort and colony optimizations does not mean a thing any more and the gameplay that they provide now (wars to own them) I simply get in a myriad of other ways. PI in higsec was a great and relaxing side game for AFTER i have finished PvP sessions. It was a content that turned into something that I always already had and the decision to introduce POCOs literally killed of a side game that I liked because it was different from the other stuff I did - yes, including primarily PvP. My game is now more poor because of it.
How old are you? Some people who left over POCOs, where PvPrs who were on the verge of burning out and used hisec PI as an outlet. The person who helped me most in my early times, he burned out after Lvl5s disappeared from hisec. He was a nullsec warrior and lowsec industrialist, and hisec Lvl5s were his outlet. Then they were fixed so they would never spawn in hisec, and he was done. He traded EVE for studying languages, literally.
The abbility to escape PvP is key even for PvPrs. And CCP is killing that as they chase the 80% who "just level up their Raven" so they feel compelled to move out of hisec, or engage in PvP. The CCP buzzword for this pressure is "move away from the comfort zone"...
It works very well, as some people is totally willing to move away from EVE rather than be pushed around like a puppet, even if they can pay less taxes. I am certain that Crius is going to have a funny effect once hisec industry becomes effectively more complex and potentially less profitable, both for non-PvPrs and for everyone using that as a hobby.
Quote:Regarding wardecs example you have mentioned: I don't completely agree with it, since it's still relatively easy to avoid war decs, but at the cost of breaking one player community in order to nurture the other. There has to be a balance between having a good opportunity to declare a war dec and to avoid one and I believe that the current system is good enough at doing that (certainly much better that the old one).
It is easy... if you know how. But griefers avoid targetting corps who pose a risk to know what they're doing. Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
550
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 23:11:00 -
[325] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: It should be pretty clear from this why he left though. It's pretty apparent that he left because it provided better opportunities than a gaming company could provide, not because CCP was struggling.
My money is six of one, half dozen of hte other. IIRC a bunch also dodged the layoffs by landing jobs at Riot. around the same time, so the good doctor may have been angling for a better position elsewhere as well.
James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm pretty sure that if someone leaves a position at a company, someone is hired or moved to fill that position. I seriously doubt CCP went "oh, I guess new players probably don't matter."
I don't disagree, but from what we're seeing, my money is on they doubled up someone else, rather than move them, giving someone the good doctors duties as well as their own until things improve enough to hire a replacement. I doubt they completely discarded it, but it's probably in the hands of someone who's more than a tad overworked with other issues atm, given the reductions in workforce.
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Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
333
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 00:45:00 -
[326] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: How old are you?
I'm 8 years into EVE (this is not my first character, but it stuck as my main).
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:The abbility to escape PvP is key even for PvPrs. And CCP is killing that as they chase the 80% who "just level up their Raven" so they feel compelled to move out of hisec, or engage in PvP. The CCP buzzword for this pressure is "move away from the comfort zone"...
This is the key! You've nailed it.
EVE has a history as an open PvP universe throughout 11 years of its existence and makes headlines because of the huge battles. Trillions of ISK make the headlines in player run scams and battle losses. If someone who never played EVE before came into the game with that reputation, what's the first thing they are going to do? Well, it's pretty obvious - try to accumulate enough wealth and skills in order to even think about competing in the game. And with a game that has characters from 2003 and 2004. active, even those who are interested to stay are basically thinking that a year in the game is absolute minimum for becoming competitive. I'm not saying that,... in fact I have been guiding newbies to see exactly the opposite of that, but the fact is that this mentality of new players is predominant and the best part is - it's natural given the global industry standards.
So we really need to look at "leveling up the Raven" not as a comfort zone, but completely the opposite - it's a heavy discomfort zone. It's the zone where a new player is absolutely convinced that he needs more time, skills and ISK in order to compete with other players. Stomping on those players while they are in that state certainly doesn't help. And forcing them to move away from that state by game mechanics or other player actions can and does only yield leaving the game altogether.
Hell, after 8 years and all that I have experienced in the game, I still have less than 10 bil in the wallet and sometimes feel that I'd need more financial security in order to PvP actively (although my experience always kicks in and tells me that I don't). Imagine having that thought as a new player without 130 mil SPs on their character and without prior experience of PvP as the primary focus of the game. And then force the interaction on them with a clear message "you are already competing even though you don't like it and don't think you are ready".
Add to that a dozen of cheap Catalysts ganking his ISK making machine (or his stuff in industrial ships) that was beasically a tool that kept him in the game and you just sent exactly what message to that player? That "no matter how much effort he puts in, there will be always older and more experienced players that will stomp on you whenever they feel like it for no apparent reason". Please note that these are not my words or words of bad forum posters.
Don't get me wrong, suicide ganking is an element of this game like any other and the game is richer because it exists. On the other hand it is damaging for the community if it gets out of control and it's pretty clear that it will be getting out of control very soon if the trends continue. And this time I'm not doing CCP's job of detecting the scope of the problem like I did a couple of years ago for bots. Players underestimated the scope of the problem back then and would usually send an obligatory HTFU if you even tried to touch a subject of bots, especially of those in nullsec. It's the same now with suicide ganking, but I now simply don't have time or will to gather all the information about the scope of suicide ganking in order to present it to CCP. That's a job for a game designer... or even better CSM.
And the simple solution is already there - tax the ganks dynamically depending on frequency of ganks in certain areas like they are going to do with industry. Connect he tax with the percentage of the value of the target even if it means that your wallet will go into negative. That would still make juicy targets attractive, it would still keep suicide ganking as a viable profession but it would also involve at least some form of planning and dedication if you want to focus your core gameplay around it and would finally introduce risk of failure if you don't do it right and without planning.
Finally, suicide gank alts do not bring money to this game as they can be trained in about 2 weeks (Tornado with large guns... for catalysts it's much shorter) on the existing accounts and don't require further maintenance whatsoever. I actually have one ready on this account, but haven't had time to use it due to RL. On the other hand, ganked players do quit after just 2 or 3 loses and they do take their money with them. CCP should keep that in mind along with everything else I've said in this post if they really want to keep subscribers in the game long enough for those players to progress into player interaction naturally or with positive focused help of other players.
Me? I don't care about suicide ganking as an element of my game. When I have enough time to play actively, I will re-join one great group of players in W-Space that I had a privilege to meet. Or get back to nullsec if the doors to W-Space get closed to me. I'll continue to move my valuable stuff with collateralized freight services and farm ISK in W-Space, nullsec or Factional warfare. As an old player with a long and diverse experience I have these options - those 80% mentioned simply don't. My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
333
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 01:03:00 -
[327] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:When POCOs hit the game, no matter how low certain corps charge for the export, I was under the impression that all my gameplay and colony optimization effort can at any time go down the drain if a player corporation that owns the CO lifts the taxes, or the COs switches hands to a corp that does the same. The idea was to engage the players in more interaction, but the basis of it was fundamentally flawed. Players that were engaged in PI in higsec are at best not interested to defend or fight for something that doesn't return much profit. With the introduction of POCOs, the fight was not for resources but for your niche play style in a game that was always great just because it offers so many niche play styles. "I theorycrafted this in my head and it didn't work out, clearly it was a bad change."
I know it's a long post and that I should really stop making them that long, but the answers are in the rest of the post. That paragraph, when taken out as a single piece, doesn't send the right message. My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
675
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 04:17:00 -
[328] - Quote
So much fail i dont even want to think about what if all that money was invested in eve what this game would become.....
I wander how much this "feed the scraps" to fanboys via re balancing this and that and occasional tit for tat will last.
Refocusing yeah right,i think it is time for another "this could be eve but it will not" trailer. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1864
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 04:26:00 -
[329] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:So much fail i dont even want to think about what if all that money was invested in eve what this game would become......
throwing tons of money at something doesn't make it good, look at SWTOR. Star Citizen will be the next shining example of my point. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Prince Kobol
1927
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 06:54:00 -
[330] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:So much fail i dont even want to think about what if all that money was invested in eve what this game would become...... throwing tons of money at something doesn't make it good, look at SWTOR. Star Citizen will be the next shining example of my point.
Well it depends on what the objective was. If the objective was to make a amazing MMO then sure, SWTOR failed since it is just another WoW Clone but with a Star Wars theme skin, if the objective was to make an obscene amount of money then SWTOR is a success, a pretty damn big one.
It has been rumoured that SWTOR made $139 million in 2013 alone.
So sure, you say SWTOR is not a good game, I would actually agree with you yet we would be in the minority as a hell of lot more people play SWTOR then will ever play Eve.
SWTOR also generates a hell of lot more revenue then Eve could ever do in its present state. I guess like I said before, it all depends on what you define as success. |
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Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 06:56:00 -
[331] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:So much fail i dont even want to think about what if all that money was invested in eve what this game would become.....
I wander how much this "feed the scraps" to fanboys via re balancing this and that and occasional tit for tat will last.
Refocusing yeah right,i think it is time for another "this could be eve but it will not" trailer.
Well, sooner or later they will stop fanservice and will add new content, just the plans are to make that content accessible only to a fraction of the playerbase.
What could go wrong with that...? Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22462
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 08:26:00 -
[332] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:And in case you are interested, this was the point of that post: Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Putting a content in is always better than removing it by forcing it to be replaced by another content that already existed. And the counter-point is that they have never removed or replaced content unless it was utterly broken and unused (eg. FW), nor have they ever forced any kind of replacement by different, pre-existing content. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
335
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 08:46:00 -
[333] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:And in case you are interested, this was the point of that post: Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Putting a content in is always better than removing it by forcing it to be replaced by another content that already existed. And the counter-point is that they have never removed or replaced content unless it was utterly broken and unused (eg. FW), nor have they ever forced any kind of replacement by different, pre-existing content. As I said in the post - casual highsec PI mini game has been replaced with a need for PvP by introducing POCOs. If you don't want to participate in the PvP linked with POCOs, then the PI mini-game loses its meaning since you can optimize colonies as much as you like, but if the owner of the CO decides to put an insane tax your mini-game gets destroyed instantly and you optimization effort become meaningless.
That pretty much looks like replacing one content (highsec PI) with another pre-existing one( PvP). My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22462
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 09:08:00 -
[334] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:As I said in the post - casual highsec PI mini game has been replaced with a need for PvP by introducing POCOs. You don't need to PvP at all. In most cases, you can just keep doing what you're doing without a care in the word GÇö often with higher margins than before since players will want to make money and not have people move to a completely different planet. If they're trying to put the squeeze on you, you can trivially get your stuff out without paying the tax and relocate.
Quote:If you don't want to participate in the PvP linked with POCOs, then the PI mini-game loses its meaning since you can optimize colonies as much as you like, but if the owner of the CO decides to put an insane tax your mini-game gets destroyed instantly and you optimization effort become meaningless. If the owner of the CO puts an insane tax on the planet, you can bypass it; your optimisation efforts are equally valid on other planets; and nothing gets destroyed other than the owner's return on investment.
No content is being replaced. Highsec PI is still highsec PI, and it was already PvP. Its interaction level increased, but that is not a replacement of content GÇö if anything, it's the content nearing the state it was originally slated to be in. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5085
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 11:47:00 -
[335] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
That pretty much looks like merging one content (highsec PI) with another pre-existing one( PvP).
Modified that for you
Which is what several PvE people have been wanting in other threads, Ive noticed "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "Question asked, insults exchanged, solutions given, face palms had, problem solved, off topic posts posted, thread locked." - ISD Ezwal |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10419
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 19:39:00 -
[336] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:So much fail i dont even want to think about what if all that money was invested in eve what this game would become...... throwing tons of money at something doesn't make it good, look at SWTOR. Star Citizen will be the next shining example of my point. Solar Freakin' Roadways! No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 19:41:00 -
[337] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:And what management is greenlighting pet projects that aren't being demanded by the customer base? For example: the wonderful world of loot spew (at least this one finally removed), unfinished unified inventory (got fixed after much consternation), nauseating gate jumps, annoying autoscanning, incredibly informative and not at all intrusive tooltips. What next will you forcefeed us thinking it somehow is improving the game? Psssssshhhhhhhhh
I wish I could sig this; looks like it's too long though.
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:After Incarna and huge amount of negative feedback along with the big hit to CCP as a company, CCP has dedicated never to make the same mistake of not listening to player feedback again.
And the very first thing they did after Incarna was to ignore player feedback by canning WiS, instead of finishing it and giving us the real WiS that had been asked for and promised.
DaReaper wrote:Hilmar appoligies, and anyone who bitches that he did nto write the letter so its bad that he did not write it is an idiot. CEO's don't write letters, they have other people do it, and usually give feedback/read and change before they sign. This is how it works. Deal with it.
CEOs have PR departments write their letters for them; not fiction/lore teams. That detail is a bit unusual, and raises a few eyebrows at the very least. |
Jeremiah Dragonkiller
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 21:10:00 -
[338] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote: About the management issues, I've talked to a lot of people about their jobs and the number of people not complaining about incompetent and out-of-touch managers is currently zero.
Hey, once I had a brilliant job with totally competent managers who were awesome!
...for a year. |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 19:12:00 -
[339] - Quote
Jeremiah Dragonkiller wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote: About the management issues, I've talked to a lot of people about their jobs and the number of people not complaining about incompetent and out-of-touch managers is currently zero.
Hey, once I had a brilliant job with totally competent managers who were awesome! ...for a year.
I've had a job like that for the past seven years and counting. In fact, I've never worked a job where I felt the managers were "out-of-touch," as I wouldn't accept such a job to begin with, and if I had later found it to be the case, I would have gotten out ASAP.
Destination, I'd suggest widening your sample size; "a lot" in this case must really not be that much if your discussions indicate there are zero competent managers in the world. Either that, or you've limited your conversations to people in the fast food industry. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5213
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 19:29:00 -
[340] - Quote
Hoshi Sorano wrote:Jeremiah Dragonkiller wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote: About the management issues, I've talked to a lot of people about their jobs and the number of people not complaining about incompetent and out-of-touch managers is currently zero.
Hey, once I had a brilliant job with totally competent managers who were awesome! ...for a year. I've had a job like that for the past seven years and counting. In fact, I've never worked a job where I felt the managers were "out-of-touch," as I wouldn't accept such a job to begin with, and if I had later found it to be the case, I would have gotten out ASAP. Destination, I'd suggest widening your sample size; "a lot" in this case must really not be that much if your discussions indicate there are zero competent managers in the world. Either that, or you've limited your conversations to people in the fast food industry.
Are you on the bottom rung? "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "Question asked, insults exchanged, solutions given, face palms had, problem solved, off topic posts posted, thread locked." - ISD Ezwal |
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Smugest Sniper
Shinigami Miners Spaceship Samurai
2
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 09:03:00 -
[341] - Quote
Obligatory Shitposting:
Fire the EA spy in management; He's there to AWOX CCP into something, as clearly dealing with sony crippled the development of DUST 514 and was not a good management decision.
Reconfigure your key assets, leaving **** all over the universe smacks of undisciplined management. EVE is your money maker, and investing in WoD was a bad investment for the most part, water under bridge now move along.
EVE's problems are easily fixable, first and foremost you must deal with the issue of High-sec being a end-game content haven. Make more incentives and tools to safely and reliably configure corporations and gangs to allow for better inter player conduct. Real Reward for Real Risk, breaking the perceptions of the dangers of other parts of space is killing new player expansion and current player development towards a broader community dynamic.
Lore is important, get this back into the game, don't be like WOW and re-appropriate your entire game culture force to nothingness. (yes Blizzrd fired their lore people a few separate occasions or transferred them.) Even if it's small, a lore team creates something different for content and provides a distraction for the player base to hang activities on.
Adding creative elements to a sandbox is what drives it to be more than a sand throwing contest. Lore does this, as does every player driven event ever organized, Drama is where you get activity; Burn Jita, Flight of 1000 rifters, monument shooting protest, Faction War et al, and the entire Sansha development process, all the story content that happened with the Amarr people etc etc.
Ship balance and impact is marginal, and easy to fix, CSM and other player entities already take care of all of that **** for you.
New Ships should focus on allowing barriers of entry to be broken, How do I make a new kind of life in EVE with this ship. This is the fundamental core of how things get done in EVE, is making a living off the content people choose to enjoy, as well as preying upon that new lifestyle.
Camping has been a problem since the beginning of time, Do something about it. Design choices that favor predators alone do not allow for a safe or healthy population of prey, it's simple ecosystem problems.(The proc changes have been a good start, but more is needed elsewhere.) Decloaking Array and Cyno jammer modules should not be so inaccessible.
Ganking is a core aspect of life in EVE, it should however not also be it's culture of focus, as the sole function of the Catalyst and Tornado have proven to be used for, easy to fix, but it should be done.
Bigger and safer means to actually have 'Sovereign' Space. Sovereignty, is not just having your name on a system, but the control of what goes on in that system. Gate destruction, controls on access and security measures is the key to controlling space in EVE, It's the only thing the Russians, parts of CFC, and others ever had right during the entire time I've played this game is Secured and guarded access points to their space from all directions.
A final word on employee's and management; It is the job of management, to ensure that employees have a clearly defined reason and vision to follow. It is the job of the employee, to try and see that vision and work towards it. CCP had vision, and still promises more dreams to come, but needs to look back at work not done, and dreams unfulfilled. |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 16:19:00 -
[342] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Hoshi Sorano wrote:Jeremiah Dragonkiller wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote: About the management issues, I've talked to a lot of people about their jobs and the number of people not complaining about incompetent and out-of-touch managers is currently zero.
Hey, once I had a brilliant job with totally competent managers who were awesome! ...for a year. I've had a job like that for the past seven years and counting. In fact, I've never worked a job where I felt the managers were "out-of-touch," as I wouldn't accept such a job to begin with, and if I had later found it to be the case, I would have gotten out ASAP. Destination, I'd suggest widening your sample size; "a lot" in this case must really not be that much if your discussions indicate there are zero competent managers in the world. Either that, or you've limited your conversations to people in the fast food industry. Are you on the bottom rung?
You could say that. I'm not management on any level, if that's what you're asking. |
Kremlyn Aldard
High Point Exploration Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 18:57:00 -
[343] - Quote
Couldn't CCP employ them to work on eve?
Eve is such an unfinished product, there's so much 49 extra people could do:
1. Open Jovian space 2. Make more space in general 3. Form a lore department 4. Creating engaging pve content 5. Colonisation of planets - meaning being able to build a dockable station and live there 6. Creation of mining colonies 7. Introduce more factions 8. Make it so you can join npc factions and work for them 9. more stations 10. make npcs interesting and intelligent 11. Exploration to be about discovering hidden aspects of the universe 12. Hacking/arch paper trail missions 13. personal habitation modules 14. make it so youdon't have to live in static stations 15. expansion of non-sovereignty null space, full of intriguing mysteries.puzzles/anomalies
why is it always new ships and a few tweaks? Haven't we got enough ships? CCP have created the most beautiful game ever full of pve possibilities. Instead of wandering around with half-finished products, why not focus on this one and make it the most perfect gaming experience ever? |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5277
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 00:20:00 -
[344] - Quote
Kremlyn Aldard wrote:Trollbait
1/10
The 1 is for effort "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "Question asked, insults exchanged, solutions given, face palms had, problem solved, off topic posts posted, thread locked." - ISD Ezwal |
Lothros Andastar
The Minutemen The Bastion
95
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 12:06:00 -
[345] - Quote
They should re-hire them to add more phsssssssssssssh |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2001
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 15:31:00 -
[346] - Quote
IBTL? When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif |
TedStriker
The Scope Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 17:55:00 -
[347] - Quote
This is....very very sad. Not only because of the 49 ppl now, always remember how many got canned in the last 2 years...CCP is downsizing ALOT, they slashed what, 2/3 of their employies? (600+ down to now what, 200?)
Its sad to see a company disintegrate slowly. I fully expect one day to see CCP Guard go, then i know its over. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
101
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 19:16:00 -
[348] - Quote
Smugest Sniper wrote:Obligatory Shitposting:
stuff.
This is all pretty much how I see it.
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Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
20
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 19:32:00 -
[349] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Something tells me the ship is starting to take on water @ CCP, and they're trying to do their best to bail the water out as fast as possible. I mean, they haven't even touted their subscription numbers like they used to all the time, and I find that a bit odd with as much as they did in the past. And you get them finally closing down White Wolf and all the other changes they have been making. Hope their bucket is big enough.
Not providing the data that we use to extrapolate the subscription numbers is basically just a bit of a PR campaign that is necessary in order to avoid a false impression that things are worse than they really are.
Remember, the price of PLEX has been rising and extra training queues has been developed, and this has caused individuals who have dozens of accounts to unsub those accounts and move characters that don't need to be logged on at the same time or who don't need constant training to be moved over to be subtoons on fewer accounts. Many of these players have moved on to ways of making ISK that don't require so many accounts. Further, ship skins, NEX store, resculpting, transfers, etc. have made the potential uses of PLEX greater than ever before.
Basically, people are paying CCP for PLEX and using them for things other than keeping large numbers of accounts subbed. In Eve, with the huge numbers of alts and the huge number of uses for PLEX, it's really hard to tell from the number of subscriptions exactly how many people are playing the game or how much revenue CCP is actually receiving.
That being said, statistics for showing the number of people online has remained largely flat, and from some views has decreased a bit. It is likely that the Eve player base is staying stagnant, or possibly decreasing but very slightly. Further, the amount of revenue going to CCP is likely staying stagnant, or possibly decreasing slightly. However, slight decreases in players and revenue do not equal the analogy of a ship taking on water. Eve is doing well given the horrible general environment of MMOs in the overall gaming community. CCP is probably in a bit of a 'rough patch' and the game is not growing like they want. However, this 'rough patch' is very likely less severe than the exodus after Incarna. However, it's enough to get investors and executives involved to do restructuring and other planning. From the Guardian article is does seem that the Atlanta Office was not performing, although this was not the fault of the White Wolf team so much as poor corporate management. Further, a publishing division does seem like a reasonable sacrifice for a corporation with several very ambitious technical goals to reach (Valkrie and Project Legion, finding a path for DUST, integrating all the games into one universe, and keeping Eve fresh in its second decade).
I mean basically, stuff happens, the market has done what it's done, the players are doing what they do, and CCP has kept on going, making some mistakes along the way. The company is showing signs of getting its butt in gear, NOT taking on water like a sinking ship. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5315
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 19:43:00 -
[350] - Quote
TedStriker wrote: always remember how many got canned in the last 2 years
You cant, why should I? "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "Question asked, insults exchanged, solutions given, face palms had, problem solved, off topic posts posted, thread locked." - ISD Ezwal |
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Dealth Striker
Striker Ltd
32
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 19:56:00 -
[351] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:TedStriker wrote: always remember how many got canned in the last 2 years You cant, why should I?
A friend of mine that I worked at BioWare with, also worked at CCP and got laid off. So I can! Striker Out!! |
Beta Maoye
26
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 19:58:00 -
[352] - Quote
As a player, I feel good to see things are getting smaller in CCP. Company is downsizing. Scope of product lines is reduced to focus on EVE. Dev are organized in small teams. More attention is given to small things such as UI. Test out new features in sisi and get small improvements here and there before rolling out in tranquility. All are good signs that the company is getting on the right track.
"Small is beautiful." ~ E.F. Schumacher |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
107
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 20:19:00 -
[353] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:As a player, I feel good to see things are getting smaller in CCP. Company is downsizing. Scope of product lines is reduced to focus on EVE. Dev are organized in small teams. More attention is given to small things such as UI. Test out new features in sisi and get small improvements here and there before rolling out in tranquility. All are good signs that the company is getting on the right track.
"Small is beautiful." ~ E.F. Schumacher
Huh... you are aware that CCP is developing 4 games, right? And 3 of them are FPS which use 3 different engines to run on 3 different hardware platforms... looks like they just downsize personnel, not development goals. Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
|
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
744
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 21:38:00 -
[354] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:Beta Maoye wrote:As a player, I feel good to see things are getting smaller in CCP. Company is downsizing. Scope of product lines is reduced to focus on EVE. Dev are organized in small teams. More attention is given to small things such as UI. Test out new features in sisi and get small improvements here and there before rolling out in tranquility. All are good signs that the company is getting on the right track.
"Small is beautiful." ~ E.F. Schumacher Huh... you are aware that CCP is developing 4 games, right? And 3 of them are FPS which use 3 different engines to run on 3 different hardware platforms... looks like they just downsize personnel, not development goals.
There are two FPSes, there's Dust 514 and Project Legion. Valkyrie is a space sim set in the EVE universe. Unless you feel that any game that sets the camera in a first person perspective is a First Person Shooter, which is wrong. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10450
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 21:47:00 -
[355] - Quote
TedStriker wrote:CCP is downsizing ALOT, they slashed what, 2/3 of their employies? Nowhere near that amount. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1335
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 22:30:00 -
[356] - Quote
Smugest Sniper wrote:Obligatory Shitposting:
Fire the EA spy in management; He's there to AWOX CCP into something, as clearly dealing with sony crippled the development of DUST 514 and was not a good management decision.
Reconfigure your key assets, leaving **** all over the universe smacks of undisciplined management. EVE is your money maker, and investing in WoD was a bad investment for the most part, water under bridge now move along.
EVE's problems are easily fixable, first and foremost you must deal with the issue of High-sec being a end-game content haven. Make more incentives and tools to safely and reliably configure corporations and gangs to allow for better inter player conduct. Real Reward for Real Risk, breaking the perceptions of the dangers of other parts of space is killing new player expansion and current player development towards a broader community dynamic.
Lore is important, get this back into the game, don't be like WOW and re-appropriate your entire game culture force to nothingness. (yes Blizzrd fired their lore people a few separate occasions or transferred them.) Even if it's small, a lore team creates something different for content and provides a distraction for the player base to hang activities on.
Adding creative elements to a sandbox is what drives it to be more than a sand throwing contest. Lore does this, as does every player driven event ever organized, Drama is where you get activity; Burn Jita, Flight of 1000 rifters, monument shooting protest, Faction War et al, and the entire Sansha development process, all the story content that happened with the Amarr people etc etc.
Ship balance and impact is marginal, and easy to fix, CSM and other player entities already take care of all of that **** for you.
New Ships should focus on allowing barriers of entry to be broken, How do I make a new kind of life in EVE with this ship. This is the fundamental core of how things get done in EVE, is making a living off the content people choose to enjoy, as well as preying upon that new lifestyle.
Camping has been a problem since the beginning of time, Do something about it. Design choices that favor predators alone do not allow for a safe or healthy population of prey, it's simple ecosystem problems.(The proc changes have been a good start, but more is needed elsewhere.) Decloaking Array and Cyno jammer modules should not be so inaccessible.
Ganking is a core aspect of life in EVE, it should however not also be it's culture of focus, as the sole function of the Catalyst and Tornado have proven to be used for, easy to fix, but it should be done.
Bigger and safer means to actually have 'Sovereign' Space. Sovereignty, is not just having your name on a system, but the control of what goes on in that system. Gate destruction, controls on access and security measures is the key to controlling space in EVE, It's the only thing the Russians, parts of CFC, and others ever had right during the entire time I've played this game is Secured and guarded access points to their space from all directions.
A final word on employee's and management; It is the job of management, to ensure that employees have a clearly defined reason and vision to follow. It is the job of the employee, to try and see that vision and work towards it. CCP had vision, and still promises more dreams to come, but needs to look back at work not done, and dreams unfulfilled. Hell, if they wanted to do REAL lore stuff, have a 5-10 minute video (maybe some in multiple parts over a couple fanfests) either focusing on lore for a certain group/person/place/thing in Trailer form, and eventually work into an actual online TV show, with 1 episode a year. That'll give you lore and a half. |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
315
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 22:30:00 -
[357] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:TedStriker wrote:CCP is downsizing ALOT, they slashed what, 2/3 of their employies? Nowhere near that amount.
Nah just 2/3 of the productive ones.
I mean god forbid they keep on the guys who upstaged the art team during the incarna debacle. Productivity be damned, they just weren't good sports at all! |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
107
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 22:33:00 -
[358] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:Beta Maoye wrote:As a player, I feel good to see things are getting smaller in CCP. Company is downsizing. Scope of product lines is reduced to focus on EVE. Dev are organized in small teams. More attention is given to small things such as UI. Test out new features in sisi and get small improvements here and there before rolling out in tranquility. All are good signs that the company is getting on the right track.
"Small is beautiful." ~ E.F. Schumacher Huh... you are aware that CCP is developing 4 games, right? And 3 of them are FPS which use 3 different engines to run on 3 different hardware platforms... looks like they just downsize personnel, not development goals. There are two FPSes, there's Dust 514 and Project Legion. Valkyrie is a space sim set in the EVE universe. Unless you feel that any game that sets the camera in a first person perspective is a First Person Shooter, which is wrong.
A shooter is an action game about shooting stuff. A first person shooter is a shooter in first person.
Now, what is Valkyrie about? Shooting stuff. How you do it? In first person view.
Thus Valkyrie is a FPS. Being something l else is left to games like Elite: Dangerous, Star Citizen or EVE Online. Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
|
KaarBaak
296
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 22:58:00 -
[359] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:Beta Maoye wrote:As a player, I feel good to see things are getting smaller in CCP. Company is downsizing. Scope of product lines is reduced to focus on EVE. Dev are organized in small teams. More attention is given to small things such as UI. Test out new features in sisi and get small improvements here and there before rolling out in tranquility. All are good signs that the company is getting on the right track.
"Small is beautiful." ~ E.F. Schumacher Huh... you are aware that CCP is developing 4 games, right? And 3 of them are FPS which use 3 different engines to run on 3 different hardware platforms... looks like they just downsize personnel, not development goals. There are two FPSes, there's Dust 514 and Project Legion. Valkyrie is a space sim set in the EVE universe. Unless you feel that any game that sets the camera in a first person perspective is a First Person Shooter, which is wrong. A shooter is an action game about shooting stuff. A first person shooter is a shooter in first person. Now, what is Valkyrie about? Shooting stuff. How you do it? In first person view. Thus Valkyrie is a FPS. Being something l else is left to games like Elite: Dangerous, Star Citizen or EVE Online.
Well, that's like saying something like Warbirds is an FPS (or any other flight sim with guns.)
Valkyrie is a combat space sim. I'd challenge you to find any media (from the devs or media-at-large) that refers to it as an FPS.
It's just too bad it'll never see the light of day. There hasn't been a good one since X-Wing VS TIE-fighter.
KB
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10450
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 01:09:00 -
[360] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:A shooter is an action game about shooting stuff. A first person shooter is a shooter in first person.
Now, what is Valkyrie about? Shooting stuff. How you do it? In first person view. I like this internet grammar argument where people take phrases and think that if you just mash the meaning of their individual words together it produces the meaning of the phrase, but that doesn't reflect how language actually works.
Nobody would consider Valkyrie a first-person shooter, because it isn't one. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
|
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1117
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 05:24:00 -
[361] - Quote
Marc Durant wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:In terms of what this means for our games, development teams and plans for EVE Online, EVE: Valkyrie, DUST 514, and GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ are not impacted by the restructuring that has taken place today. Xhagen laid off.... XHAGEN.... Tell us how that does not impact EVE.
The irony here is less than a month before being let go, CCP thought enough of his vital role within eve that they gave him the developer spotlight!
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/developer-spotlight-xhagen/
Somehow he became non essential three weeks later. :p
CCP: "Hey players! This is Xhagan! He is very very important and you should all love him and hug him and call him George!"
"OK thats enough of that! Say goodbye to Xhagan! And please return the lollipop we gave you as well!" |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
109
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 07:15:00 -
[362] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote: I'd challenge you to find any media (from the devs or media-at-large) that refers to it as an FPS.
Houm, how about David Reid, CCP's marketing director and de facto Executive Producer to EVE Online?
Quote:GÇ£This (Valkyire) is more akin to an FPS in many ways, so weGÇÖre looking at modes like team deathmatch, king of the kill, CTF, things like that being added to the game,GÇ¥ says Reid.
Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, Team Deathmatch... yes, those are *disctinctive* spacesim features... Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
|
Rankan
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 08:27:00 -
[363] - Quote
^what she said.....not to mention the video on http://evevalkyrie.com/ shows a first person view from inside the ship |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3139
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 08:43:00 -
[364] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Marc Durant wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:In terms of what this means for our games, development teams and plans for EVE Online, EVE: Valkyrie, DUST 514, and GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ are not impacted by the restructuring that has taken place today. Xhagen laid off.... XHAGEN.... Tell us how that does not impact EVE. The irony here is less than a month before being let go, CCP thought enough of his vital role within eve that they gave him the developer spotlight! http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/developer-spotlight-xhagen/Somehow he became non essential three weeks later. :p CCP: "Hey players! This is Xhagan! He is very very important and you should all love him and hug him and call him George!" "OK thats enough of that! Say goodbye to Xhagan! And please return the lollipop we gave you as well!"
"Left Hand, I don't think you have met Right Hand. "
One of the bloggers, a current CSM member, made it abundantly clear, in their opinion, what they think of CCP upper management. The word "failure" was prominent. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Erin Crawford
103
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 09:26:00 -
[365] - Quote
Sad news! And for some after almost 11 years! "Having been at CCP for almost 11 years (my first day was May 6th, 2003 GÇô the day EVE Online opened for business) "
All the best to those who got laid off. Tough times indeed!
|
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 10:14:00 -
[366] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Marc Durant wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:In terms of what this means for our games, development teams and plans for EVE Online, EVE: Valkyrie, DUST 514, and GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ are not impacted by the restructuring that has taken place today. Xhagen laid off.... XHAGEN.... Tell us how that does not impact EVE. The irony here is less than a month before being let go, CCP thought enough of his vital role within eve that they gave him the developer spotlight! http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/developer-spotlight-xhagen/Somehow he became non essential three weeks later. :p CCP: "Hey players! This is Xhagan! He is very very important and you should all love him and hug him and call him George!" "OK thats enough of that! Say goodbye to Xhagan! And please return the lollipop we gave you as well!" "Left Hand, I don't think you have met Right Hand. " One of the bloggers, a current CSM member, made it abundantly clear, in their opinion, what they think of CCP upper management. The word "failure" was prominent.
Id really love a link. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
550
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 12:50:00 -
[367] - Quote
Pine Marten wrote: Id really love a link.
He provided a bunch earlier, but ISD may have deleted them. |
Prince Kobol
1947
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 16:47:00 -
[368] - Quote
Here is my view.
CCP are still developing 4 separate products
Eve Dust Valkyrie Legion
However they are doing so with less staff.
Also according to Nick Blood (CCP Dropbear) in the article the Guardian wrote, CCP Management drafted the help of the WoD Developers to help out with elements in Eve a number of times to met deadlines, a resource which no longer exists.
I do not see how any of this is good.
Spin it how you like, CCP are still in my opinion spreading themselves far too thin by trying to develop so many games at once but now with less staff at their disposal.
How many other companies try to develop 4 games simultaneously?
The only 2 that I aware off are Blizzard and EA and you can not compare CCP with either of these 2 behemoths.
EA reported a net revenue of $1.04 Billion in 2013 and Activision Blizzard reported $1.05 billion, so sure these 2 can do that.. CCP however can not. |
Luca Lure
Obertura
28
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 19:09:00 -
[369] - Quote
Othran wrote:The Guardian article is spot on the money - its a description of a Scandinavian management culture which permits no dissent or criticism of management, and like the vast majority of Scandinavian companies that culture fails once they expand beyond their own country.
Like Nokia, IKEA and Volvo. GÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇòGÇò The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.
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Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
13
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 19:47:00 -
[370] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Spin it how you like, CCP are still in my opinion spreading themselves far too thin by trying to develop so many games at once but now with less staff at their disposal.
Speaking generally, it's something of a fallacy to assume that more people on an engineering or software development project makes it go faster or makes it more effective.
Larger teams inevitably wind up under tremendous pressure to make key architectural decisions quickly so everyone can get to work instead of sitting around or wasting their time. However, especially in game development, there's a lot of benefit to having time to try things and evaluate architectural or gameplay ideas carefully. A smaller team makes doing this less costly.
As an outsider whose only knowledge about this stuff is what's been said in public, it seems to me that Valkyrie and Legion are being made by teams that are a lot smaller than WoD and Dust teams were for most of their development. This means that if they make some bad decisions, it's a lot less costly to identify and correct, and only after they have a great game do they ramp up to a large team to get a product out the door.
That's just a more efficient, better way to work, and notably it's how Blizzard does it (though not EA as much, and I think it shows in the quality of their products. EA's attitude seems to be "let's release something fast and maybe not so awesome today, then keep releasing versions of it and do the iteration that way.") |
|
Prince Kobol
1947
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 20:21:00 -
[371] - Quote
Lysenko Alland wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Spin it how you like, CCP are still in my opinion spreading themselves far too thin by trying to develop so many games at once but now with less staff at their disposal. Speaking generally, it's something of a fallacy to assume that more people on an engineering or software development project makes it go faster or makes it more effective. Larger teams inevitably wind up under tremendous pressure to make key architectural decisions quickly so everyone can get to work instead of sitting around or wasting their time. However, especially in game development, there's a lot of benefit to having time to try things and evaluate architectural or gameplay ideas carefully. A smaller team makes doing this less costly. As an outsider whose only knowledge about this stuff is what's been said in public, it seems to me that Valkyrie and Legion are being made by teams that are a lot smaller than WoD and Dust teams were for most of their development. This means that if they make some bad decisions, it's a lot less costly to identify and correct, and only after they have a great game do they ramp up to a large team to get a product out the door. That's just a more efficient, better way to work, and notably it's how Blizzard does it (though not EA as much, and I think it shows in the quality of their products. EA's attitude seems to be "let's release something fast and maybe not so awesome today, then keep releasing versions of it and do the iteration that way.")
You have made some very good points, however whilst these games are still in development they bring zero cash for CCP which means they are being funded by Eve.
Now at some point they will have to increase the size of those teams otherwise they will either stay in development hell or the teams who are working on them will suffer burn out, there is only so much a small team can do.
Where is the funding for those extra resources going to come form? Will they hiring more Devs, I find that unlikely so the only other option is to move devs currently working on Eve to those other projects.
Either way for a company of CCP size to be developing 4 games at once is crazy.
Look I could be completely wrong and CCP Management know what they are doing and have everything planned, okay their previous attempts have failed pretty bad but maybe they have learnt.
I hope so.
|
Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
13
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 20:28:00 -
[372] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Now at some point they will have to increase the size of those teams otherwise they will either stay in development hell or the teams who are working on them will suffer burn out, there is only so much a small team can do.
Well the idea of the small team approach I was talking about is to slow-burn for a long time to get things right. I have no idea how close that is to CCP's plan.
As for EVE, you have to consider that looking at last year's balance sheet (which I have, in detail) their cash flow position is pretty good. Their cash flow last year was somewhat negative but they could have multiple more years like that without running out of cash, and their recent layoffs may help with that cash flow situation somewhat, too.
None of this is a comment on the validity of CCP's plans. I'm just saying that, as an outsider, the choices they're making do point toward one possible way forward that would help address some of their big historical issues. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
112
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 20:37:00 -
[373] - Quote
Lysenko Alland wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Spin it how you like, CCP are still in my opinion spreading themselves far too thin by trying to develop so many games at once but now with less staff at their disposal. Speaking generally, it's something of a fallacy to assume that more people on an engineering or software development project makes it go faster or makes it more effective. Larger teams inevitably wind up under tremendous pressure to make key architectural decisions quickly so everyone can get to work instead of sitting around or wasting their time. However, especially in game development, there's a lot of benefit to having time to try things and evaluate architectural or gameplay ideas carefully. A smaller team makes doing this less costly. As an outsider whose only knowledge about this stuff is what's been said in public, it seems to me that Valkyrie and Legion are being made by teams that are a lot smaller than WoD and Dust teams were for most of their development. This means that if they make some bad decisions, it's a lot less costly to identify and correct, and only after they have a great game do they ramp up to a large team to get a product out the door. That's just a more efficient, better way to work, and notably it's how Blizzard does it (though not EA as much, and I think it shows in the quality of their products. EA's attitude seems to be "let's release something fast and maybe not so awesome today, then keep releasing versions of it and do the iteration that way.")
CCP shifted to SCRUM agile development since Incarnageddon, and that means that everyhting is being built by small "sprint teams". The more personnel you have, the more sprint teams you can put to work, as long as there are enough team masters to coordinate development.
CCP Xhagen was one of those team masters, which means that whatever team(s) he was mastering, either have been disbanded (laid off?) or reassigned to other teams, which means that one or more sprints have been stopped or delayed because of a single layoff (but then we don't know whether other associate producers have been fired along with Xhagen).
SCRUM allows small teams to do big projects, but it requires a very professional management. And "professional management" is not what Mr. Psssshhh and all the sacred cows who never lose their jobs at CCP are about. Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
|
Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
13
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 20:49:00 -
[374] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:CCP Xhagen was one of those team masters, which means that whatever team(s) he was mastering, either have been disbanded (laid off?) or reassigned to other teams, which means that one or more sprints have been stopped or delayed because of a single layoff (but then we don't know whether other associate producers have been fired along with Xhagen).
You're assuming an awful lot from very little information. There's no way to tell what rearrangement happened internally.
Quote:SCRUM allows small teams to do big projects, but it requires a very professional management. And "professional management" is not what Mr. Psssshhh and all the sacred cows who never lose their jobs at CCP are about.
That was a great story, but it was a water cooler story from an anonymous person who was unhappy long-term about the process. First, it's not clear whether it actually happened the way it was described, and second, any company with 500+ employees will have a handful of ineffective leaders here or there. Assuming that story is representative of the company's management across the board is not realistic. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
113
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 22:19:00 -
[375] - Quote
Lysenko Alland wrote:Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:CCP Xhagen was one of those team masters, which means that whatever team(s) he was mastering, either have been disbanded (laid off?) or reassigned to other teams, which means that one or more sprints have been stopped or delayed because of a single layoff (but then we don't know whether other associate producers have been fired along with Xhagen). You're assuming an awful lot from very little information. There's no way to tell what rearrangement happened internally.
Just go read CCP Xhagen's spotlight, he says very clearly how he is mastering sprint teams.
Quote:Quote:SCRUM allows small teams to do big projects, but it requires a very professional management. And "professional management" is not what Mr. Psssshhh and all the sacred cows who never lose their jobs at CCP are about. That was a great story, but it was a water cooler story from an anonymous person who was unhappy long-term about the process. First, it's not clear whether it actually happened the way it was described, and second, any company with 500+ employees will have a handful of ineffective leaders here or there. Assuming that story is representative of the company's management across the board is not realistic.
That story doesn't falls out of the blue, but from a pretty coherent trend of reviews talking negatively on CCP management since 2008.
Your average Glassdoor review is like "awesome staff, great perks, poor pay, unprofessional management who never assumes responsability". Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
|
Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
13
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 22:50:00 -
[376] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:Lysenko Alland wrote: You're assuming an awful lot from very little information. There's no way to tell what rearrangement happened internally.
Just go read CCP Xhagen's spotlight, he says very clearly how he is mastering sprint teams.
Sure, but you don't know what rearrangement happened internally. Maybe someone was reassigned to his role. Maybe someone else with some bandwidth took on his responsibilities additionally to whatever else they were doing. Your statement was "well they must have disbanded the team." My point is: you can't assume anything.
Quote:That story doesn't falls out of the blue, but from a pretty coherent trend of reviews talking negatively on CCP management since 2008.
Your average Glassdoor review is like "awesome staff, great perks, poor pay, unprofessional management who never assumes responsability".
When I said "that makes a great story," sure, it fits a particular narrative, but how realistic that narrative seems is going to look different to different people, either in the company or outside.
As for Glassdoor, all the reviews look the same for all the companies I've ever worked for, and they typically say management is clueless but they loved their coworkers, including one that made Forbes's list of "best companies to work for." People mostly post on there after they leave an employer, and many find it hard to empathize with senior management unless one has been one anyway.
People who boostrap companies from nothing, like the management of CCP did, are constrained to learn on the job. Making mistakes is necessarily part of that process, and there's a lot to master in running a company. Are they improving? Will they come up with a truly successful follow-up to EVE Online? I don't know, but you're not going to see the answer to that in stories from six or seven years ago, three-year-old reviews on Glassdoor.com, or discussion in these forums.
Edit: Regarding "that story doesn't fall out of the blue." I have seen specific examples of stories about manager behavior passed around the workplace for years until the embellishment entirely replaces what really happened. In one case I'm thinking of, the embellished story became understood to be true, and I only found out what really happened when I had a work-related reason to check on its accuracy. The "Pssshhh" thing has a lot of similarities to stories I've seen treated that way in other workplaces. These stories can wind up being a kind of passive-aggressive revenge against managers who have slighted particular people in more mundane ways. Doesn't make them accurate. |
Beta Maoye
26
|
Posted - 2014.06.15 02:38:00 -
[377] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:The irony here is less than a month before being let go, CCP thought enough of his vital role within eve that they gave him the developer spotlight! http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/developer-spotlight-xhagen/Somehow he became non essential three weeks later. :p CCP: "Hey players! This is Xhagan! He is very very important and you should all love him and hug him and call him George!" "OK thats enough of that! Say goodbye to Xhagan! And please return the lollipop we gave you as well!"
Yes, that's really hurt the employees.
Damage has been done. Job cut because of termination of WoD followed by mass layoff in Iceland head office. That will inevitably cause job anxiety and stress in their offices. Staffs feel loss or guilty over colleagues who were laid off. They have no idea when they will be fired, on top of the fact workload is increased. That makes things nerve-racking for everyone.
I hope their top management had done some damage controls by holding meetings to discuss layoffs with employees. Assure the value of remaining employees to the company. Assure employee's future with the company. Give employees appropiate incentives to focus on the goals of the company.
However, given the history of their management style, I think they better hire some external consultants to help on managing this crisis. |
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
167
|
Posted - 2014.06.15 04:26:00 -
[378] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: Now at some point they will have to increase the size of those teams otherwise they will either stay in development hell or the teams who are working on them will suffer burn out, there is only so much a small team can do.
With all respect, a team that suffers 'burn out' is a poorly-managed team from the start. Programming teams know what they're capable of, and they know who they have on-board. They're very unlikely to risk working beyond their abilties, particularly when a product budget is generally in the range of several million dollars.
Prince Kobol wrote: Where is the funding for those extra resources going to come form? Will they hiring more Devs, I find that unlikely so the only other option is to move devs currently working on Eve to those other projects.
That much, I agree with: hiring more developers isn't the solution in a situation like this. The new hires would have to be trained on the software, which takes time and money, and there might even be relocation expenses.
Prince Kobol wrote: Either way for a company of CCP size to be developing 4 games at once is crazy.
Not at all; a company of any size usually has at least two projects going at any one time (one or more in concept and one in active development); it would be more accurate to say that a company with CCP's finances are taking a risk with four products.
Prince Kobol wrote: Look I could be completely wrong and CCP Management know what they are doing and have everything planned, okay their previous attempts have failed pretty bad but maybe they have learnt.
I hope so.
So do I... |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2014.06.15 12:19:00 -
[379] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:JC Anderson wrote:The irony here is less than a month before being let go, CCP thought enough of his vital role within eve that they gave him the developer spotlight! http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/developer-spotlight-xhagen/Somehow he became non essential three weeks later. :p CCP: "Hey players! This is Xhagan! He is very very important and you should all love him and hug him and call him George!" "OK thats enough of that! Say goodbye to Xhagan! And please return the lollipop we gave you as well!" I hope their top management had done some damage controls by holding meetings to discuss layoffs with employees. Assure the value of remaining employees to the company. Assure employee's future with the company. Good luck with that. Who the hell would believe any of this?
My buddy at work was presented with his 15 year pin, a nice plaque and a handshake from the Company President.
4 days later he got his lay off notice along with 40 others.... LOL...
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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
550
|
Posted - 2014.06.15 23:56:00 -
[380] - Quote
Just a reminder, this is all speculation until June's new financials. But I have the feeling this thread, or one like it, will double in size in the first 24. |
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Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
44
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 09:19:00 -
[381] - Quote
Luca Lure wrote:Othran wrote:The Guardian article is spot on the money - its a description of a Scandinavian management culture which permits no dissent or criticism of management, and like the vast majority of Scandinavian companies that culture fails once they expand beyond their own country.
Like Nokia, IKEA and Volvo.
How are those SAAB shares doing?
@Thread: Arguing about whether or not a Valkyrie is a sim or a FPS? does it really matter ?
Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
550
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 23:41:00 -
[382] - Quote
Domina Trix wrote: Arguing about whether or not a Valkyrie is a sim or a FPS? does it really matter ?
Because until the 6 month financials come out everyone is just speculating.
Speculating leads to shitposting, shitposting leads to trolling, trolling leads to thread lock.
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1407
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 10:02:00 -
[383] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Another instance: think about how wardecs work. Through wardecs, PvPrs can easily and risklessly force their playstyle on PvErs at any time. But they never risk being forced to PvE when PvErs fight back. The very idea looks silly, right? Yet this is how every year, thousands of players are driven out of the game.
Bullshit, how do you think we make the money for the several billions of isk we need to pay to get those war decs every week? We do economical and non pew stuff so that we can pew pew. The carebears on other side want to not have to do pew pew to be able to do their stuff. Your understandign of the double standard is reversed!
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5431
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 10:05:00 -
[384] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Another instance: think about how wardecs work. Through wardecs, PvPrs can easily and risklessly force their playstyle on PvErs at any time. But they never risk being forced to PvE when PvErs fight back. The very idea looks silly, right? Yet this is how every year, thousands of players are driven out of the game.
Bullshit, how do you think we make the money for the several billions of isk we need to pay to get those war decs every week? We do economical and non pew stuff so that we can pew pew. The carebears on other side want to not have to do pew pew to be able to do their stuff. Your understandign of the double standard is reversed!
Fiction:
PvP Corp vs PvE Corp for purposes of griefery and tears
Reality:
PvP Corp supported by PvE Corp vs PvE corp for purposes of reducing competition, increasing profit and enjoying gameplay. "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "How the **** can you think you are entitled to be such an *******?-áYou're lucky you're ALLOWED to have an opinion ..." - Solecist Project |
Neesa Corrinne
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 19:18:00 -
[385] - Quote
A thread about suicide ganking freighters has received more replies than this one.
The apathy is strong with the remaining player base.
I guess suicide ganking has more... Pshhhhh. |
Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
13
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 20:40:00 -
[386] - Quote
Neesa Corrinne wrote:A thread about suicide ganking freighters has received more replies than this one.
The apathy is strong with the remaining player base.
I guess suicide ganking has more... Pshhhhh.
Arguably, a thread about things happening in the game will mean more to players who are actually playing the game than a thread about the developer's staffing choices. While CCP's layoffs are regrettable, this is as it should be. |
Tilly Delnero
Licorne Ventures Ltd.
124
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 22:00:00 -
[387] - Quote
Neesa Corrinne wrote:A thread about suicide ganking freighters has received more replies than this one.
The apathy is strong with the remaining player base.
I guess suicide ganking has more... Pshhhhh. Unfortunately a lot of people only take to the forums to vent or chestbeat due to something that happened to them in the game. If I wasn't skimming the forums out of boredom, I would never have even known about the layoffs. I honestly hope everyone involved land on their feet and are sucessful in their future enterprises.
With regard to WoD, I was really looking forward to that game as I grew up RPing in that setting with Vampire and Wraith. But to be honest, with CCP's screwing the pooch on Ambulation/Incarna (which I also was extremely excited about) I can't say with any honesty I'm surprised. |
Pj Harvey
Ship spinners inc
20
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 01:27:00 -
[388] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Just a reminder, this is all speculation until June's new financials. But I have the feeling this thread, or one like it, will double in size in the first 24.
No it won't. Nobody cares apparently. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
506
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 02:27:00 -
[389] - Quote
Good luck to all the duders losing their jobs, and indeed those staying at CCP.
Business is all fun and games until some c*nt puts a hotel on Mayfair... |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet Market and Contract PVP
870
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 00:33:00 -
[390] - Quote
if CCP needs money so badly that they would cut all these jobs, how then can we as the player base help?
Can we donate money directly to CCP? How much money spent on PLEX goes to the costs that CCP now has to deal with? CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
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Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1933
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 02:18:00 -
[391] - Quote
Companies have control over their payroll.
When "crunch time" comes, usually because a product fails to meet market expectations or a product just doesn't make it out of development, a company exercises that control.
We've seen the layoffs. The rest is still speculation.
"Psssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh" -á-- That ambiguous and pseudo-technical term used by management to describe to staff how frakking cool something looks inside their own heads.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5489
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 08:34:00 -
[392] - Quote
Pj Harvey wrote: Nobody cares
Correctamundo! "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "How the **** can you think you are entitled to be such an *******?-áYou're lucky you're ALLOWED to have an opinion ..." - Solecist Project |
Khadanne
Scorpions Legions Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 13:16:00 -
[393] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Get rid of some of the executives.
What value for money and for CCP can they provide given their obvious failures?
THIS |
Thomas Abernathy
High Flyers The Kadeshi
69
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 17:14:00 -
[394] - Quote
You kids don't get the new business model do you?
You milk the cow until it falls over dead, then you take a couple years off with the money you made.
Rinse and repeat.
"Fighting CCD since 2139" |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
133
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 20:08:00 -
[395] - Quote
Thomas Abernathy wrote:You kids don't get the new business model do you? You milk the cow until it falls over dead, then you take a couple years off with the money you made. Rinse and repeat. Oh, almost forgot... Another successful expansion? http://eve-offline.net
I think that the stakes are on Crius and the industry rework. But that's not an attempt to increase PCU, actually, jsut a necessary step down the road to the next Jesus feature, coming in 2015 or whenever it's done. Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
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Maz Ngomo
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 21:34:00 -
[396] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: I think that the stakes are on Crius and the industry rework. But that's not an attempt to increase PCU, actually, jsut a necessary step down the road to the next Jesus feature, coming in 2015 or whenever it's done.
There will be no more 'Jesus features'. CCP have stated as such and CCP never lie.
Of course, there will bo no more 'Interesting features' either, and the 'Innovative features' have had to be delayed until 2025 due to code spaghetti and API issues or something. |
Serene Repose
1391
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 22:08:00 -
[397] - Quote
I'm happy to "discuss" this. I'd preface my remarks with the observation that, given CCP's descent into the abyss of corporate mentality, even sending a Dev here to post this as a sort of "mea culpa" reeks of deception.
I've been saying for four years now this corporation has lost its ever-lovin' mind. The Aura (reference intended) with which we began has slowly spoiled over time. You can track the disappearance of the original spirit, the generation of the present one and Hilmar's ego expansion on the same graph. Many is the time I likened the management of CCP to little boys who never quite left daddy's garage. I wasn't joking. I thought it was the most appropriate analogy, and still do.
I lifted some quotes from articles in major news organs to amplify and vicariously endorse my assessment:
"Without the time or resources to properly do so, many things were left half-delivered, to be iterated upon later -- which never happened. CCP has an extensive track record of promising to return to features and never doing so."
This reminds me so much of what I used to say to my son when he was a boy growing up. You dads out there know what I mean. You young men should recall having heard such things said to you as you matured. Thing is, this is being said about full-grown men engaged in what we're supposed to consider to be "serious business."
"Worst of all, according to Nick Blood (a former CCP dev and GM), the entire point of the expansion (walking around in space stations) was let down by the Reykjavic office's art team. It took them nearly the entire development time to create one faction's captain's quarters. Yet again, WoD team was asked to crossover in order to bail out an EVE expansion."
Rob Peter to pay Paul long enough and they both go broke. Anyone with credible management experience KNOWS what's behind this sort of thing. Invariably it's symptomatic of biting off more than one can chew, or, the eyes too big for the stomach. Again, admonitions that belong in child-rearing, not serious corporate management.
However, is there evidence other than this mistake made in trying to start a new enterprise? Yeah, there was that expansion - which was in itself a disaster within an already up and running enterprise. There was a PLAYER RIOT? After denying there was a problem, and seeing subscriptions plummet, CCP offers an apology:
"Eventually CEO Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson issued an apology to players...[he] didn't actually write.... He was either so out of touch, so arrogant (or perhaps both) that he couldn't find the words to say himself."
How like them. How their reputation fell from soaring heights through the drainpipe in the basement floor. And, of course, the "sister" project to EVE, DUST 514, allegedly an accompaniment to EVE but actually a project being piggy-backed off EVE:
"When Dust 514 was finally released...reviews generally praised the concept, but savaged the well below par execution. It flopped."
How did a group of guys with such an auspicious and audacious start manage to hurl themselves into the banal and pedestrian mentality of the corporation? Let this be a lesson to you young'uns out there. You can't get good fruit from a bad tree. Once the tempted take a bite of the poisoned apple, the result is always the same. It's just sad, and a shame to see it happen to the ones we once loved so dearly.
Finally. This is the second layoff in four years. The irony of sending to the unemployment line fifty loyal troops the same DAY the state of Georgia enacts a tax break for game developers to foster growth in the industry - GEORGIA of all places???? I just can't believe my eyes. I need a stiff drink, and quit drinking likker fifteen years ago. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Tilly Delnero
Licorne Ventures Ltd.
140
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 23:02:00 -
[398] - Quote
Well to be fair CCP Goliath is a community manager so it's his job to tell people about this kind of situation, I don't see any issue with that. He may also have been affected by this personally.
With regard to Hilmar's 'ego' I can honestly say that, having watched a lot of fanfests over the years, that's one thing I truly miss about him. Years ago he had this almost boyish enthusiasm about him regarding EVE and what he wanted it to go, he had an idea and an amazing ability to get people excited about that vision. Almost a cult-like personality. I always found myself grinning when he came on stage. He could jokingly suggest an invasion of the US with nothing but pitchforks and broken beer bottles and I'd have jumped up and screamed, 'F-YEAH!'
Nowadays he seems like a shell of his former self, almost like the bullied boy in school who doesn't dare to speak his mind anymore because he's afraid of what the other kids might do to him. Unfortunately he's given the power to the overly vocal and antagonistic EVE players and in the process lost his 'vision'. We need to remember that it was CCP's (and Hilmar's) ideas and sheer bloody-mindedness that built EVE from nothing and kept it unique from all the other MMOs that came out and died in the meantime.
Now I'm not saying the business side of the company has been sensible, or even competent in some cases because there have been some genuinely 'WTF?' moments in recent years. But CCP, as with all companies, need to make mistakes and learn if they are to improve. The things I've been frustrated by have been the 'broken promises', and I just wish CCP as a whole would keep certain ideas under wraps until they are verified to be workable and will definitely be implemented rather than shown in press releases or at fanfest and then never seen again.
Besides all that, I can't really form a real opinion on the situation surrounding the layoffs because we don't have enough information. Was it poor management? Maybe. Was it a series of unfortunate and unaviodable events that culminated in the losses? Perhaps. Is this proof of falling subs that CCP can't afford to fund other projects outside of EVE? It's possible... maybe.
More info would be nice, but at the same time it's not really any of our business. |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 23:15:00 -
[399] - Quote
Tilly Delnero wrote:More info would be nice, but at the same time it's not really any of our business.
|
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
76
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 02:19:00 -
[400] - Quote
This laying people off saddens me.
I know CCP are trying to balance the books and get the company running smoothly but laying off good staff who been with the company since day one has sadden me
I would like to the CCP staff that are leaving.
Thanks for the great years of fun and been great of what you have been doing for EvE Online and the EvE Community.
Wishing you the best for your future.
From 45thtiger 0109
This is a sandbox game welcome to EvE
|
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
850
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 02:46:00 -
[401] - Quote
Maz Ngomo wrote:Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: I think that the stakes are on Crius and the industry rework. But that's not an attempt to increase PCU, actually, jsut a necessary step down the road to the next Jesus feature, coming in 2015 or whenever it's done.
There will be no more 'Jesus features'. CCP have stated as such and CCP never lie. Of course, there will bo no more 'Interesting features' either, and the 'Innovative features' have had to be delayed until 2025 due to code spaghetti and API issues or something.
and Tidi ...
oh and ... grrr goons |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
1005
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 03:41:00 -
[402] - Quote
Look at it this way, less viable IP makes CCP less of a buyout target. Imagine if EA bought CCPs assets... This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3158
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 03:58:00 -
[403] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Look at it this way, less viable IP makes CCP less of a buyout target. Imagine if EA bought CCPs assets...
WHEN CCP gets bought out, it will be really interesting to see the direction of Eve then. I should be careful. I am not entirely sure who precisely owns CCP, but as I understand, it is a consortium of private individuals / groups. Eventually, as CCP continues to mismanage their cash streams with some hugely expensive misadventures, the investors will say "enough", and have no choice but to fire the exec team, or sell the Eve IP, or both.
Who will buy the Eve IP, who knows? But it will indeed lead to some interesting times. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Jaxo Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 05:20:00 -
[404] - Quote
PC Gamer Issue 255 Aug 2014 (current issue)
Has 10 pages on Eve/Valk/Legion.
Food for thought;
"The game generated $72 million for CCP last year"
"...average Eve player is between 25 and 35"
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
850
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 05:35:00 -
[405] - Quote
Jaxo Enaka wrote:
"...average Eve player is between 25 and 35"
Older than FPS communities but far younger than your typical combat flight sim community.
|
Maz Ngomo
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 06:03:00 -
[406] - Quote
Jaxo Enaka wrote:PC Gamer Issue 255 Aug 2014 (current issue)
"...average Eve player is between 25 and 35"
I'm curious as to how they claim to know this since I for one have never revealed my age to CCP or PC Gamer. Judging by the increasing amount of immature behaviour of a lot of the players both in game and on the forums I would have figured it to be a lot lower. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1829
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 06:10:00 -
[407] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey Guys,
As some of you may have heard today, thereGÇÖs been reports of job cuts here at CCP in the gaming media. As part of our strategy to focus on the EVE Universe, today we conducted a restructuring that resulted in the layoff of 49 people in our publishing organization.
This has been a really tough decision for us to make, and though itGÇÖs hard to say goodbye to our friends and family, this action concludes the process we started several months ago to restructure CCP.
CCP has provided severance packages and job placement assistance for all those employees who are affected, and we wish them all the best for the future.
In terms of what this means for our games, development teams and plans for EVE Online, EVE: Valkyrie, DUST 514, and GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ are not impacted by the restructuring that has taken place today.
If you'd like to discuss what's happened today, feel free to do so in this thread.
Thanks,
- F
Totes joking.... but, last time you said "nobody's getting laid off", a bunch of people got laid off.
So, does this post mean that CCP actually hired a buttload of new employees? That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Prince Kobol
1961
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 06:40:00 -
[408] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Look at it this way, less viable IP makes CCP less of a buyout target. Imagine if EA bought CCPs assets... WHEN CCP gets bought out, it will be really interesting to see the direction of Eve then. I should be careful. I am not entirely sure who precisely owns CCP, but as I understand, it is a consortium of private individuals / groups. Eventually, as CCP continues to mismanage their cash streams with some hugely expensive misadventures, the investors will say "enough", and have no choice but to fire the exec team, or sell the Eve IP, or both. Who will buy the Eve IP, who knows? But it will indeed lead to some interesting times.
As far as I am aware you have 2 primary groups.
One is a american venture capitalist firm called General Catalyst
The other is Novator Partners who are a Venture Capital & Private Equity Firm based in London. Birgir Ragnarsson is a partner in this firm as well as a CCP Chairman.
As to who has what percentage or what kind of control or influence they have, this is something we can only ever speculate on. |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 09:33:00 -
[409] - Quote
Obligatory my uncle told me EA plans to buy EvE |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1128
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Posted - 2014.06.20 17:23:00 -
[410] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Maz Ngomo wrote:Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: I think that the stakes are on Crius and the industry rework. But that's not an attempt to increase PCU, actually, jsut a necessary step down the road to the next Jesus feature, coming in 2015 or whenever it's done.
There will be no more 'Jesus features'. CCP have stated as such and CCP never lie. Of course, there will bo no more 'Interesting features' either, and the 'Innovative features' have had to be delayed until 2025 due to code spaghetti and API issues or something. and Tidi ... oh and ... grrr goons
Yeah but to be fair, it was far worse before tidi. At that time you would take 20 minutes to load grid and often already be dead by the time it did during massive engagements.
Tidi is in no way a perfect solution though. |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5436
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Posted - 2014.06.20 17:30:00 -
[411] - Quote
Pine Marten wrote:Obligatory my uncle told me EA plans to buy EvE
Your uncle is wrong.
CCP has to fail MUCH harder before it even enters on EA's radars. They only take clinical cases of failure. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
614
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Posted - 2014.06.20 18:12:00 -
[412] - Quote
Maz Ngomo wrote:Jaxo Enaka wrote:PC Gamer Issue 255 Aug 2014 (current issue)
"...average Eve player is between 25 and 35"
I'm curious as to how they claim to know this since I for one have never revealed my age to CCP or PC Gamer. Judging by the increasing amount of immature behaviour of a lot of the players both in game and on the forums I would have figured it to be a lot lower.
You never completed one of the umpteen EVE survey's?
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
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Serene Repose
1400
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Posted - 2014.06.20 19:27:00 -
[413] - Quote
There was once this organization who is not permitted to be named aloud...who invited a discussion on something they obviously did wrong....that then deleted any input that was not flattering...then allowed the discussion to stray totally off the subject because they were indeed being flattered....then the bunny rabbit went back in its hole and the little girl woke up.
I love fairy tales! I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
664
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Posted - 2014.06.20 19:34:00 -
[414] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Look at it this way, less viable IP makes CCP less of a buyout target. Imagine if EA bought CCPs assets... WHEN CCP gets bought out, it will be really interesting to see the direction of Eve then. I should be careful. I am not entirely sure who precisely owns CCP, but as I understand, it is a consortium of private individuals / groups. Eventually, as CCP continues to mismanage their cash streams with some hugely expensive misadventures, the investors will say "enough", and have no choice but to fire the exec team, or sell the Eve IP, or both. Who will buy the Eve IP, who knows? But it will indeed lead to some interesting times.
Except i'm not sure how you can claim the cash stream was mismanaged. Last year ccp made 10m more then the year before. The "loss" was only a loss because they decided to shift focus away for other projects completely, and thus all the work done on WoD for over 8 years had to be written off, which bring son layoffs. And this last round would be the final piece of cutting projects that they no longer wish to work on. Right now talking about CCP mismanaging cash is a bit silly. If in sept when the 6 month report comes out and you see a big loss still then you can worry. Till then this really is not anything.
Here is my issue, you can not ignore the fact that ccp has sense around 07 made profit, every year, except last year. And the only reason they did not make any last year was both the cutting of WoD and the cost to get Dust fully up and running. Thouse two factors alone ate into ccp's profits. So going 'omg they had a huge loss they are dying' is a bit silly, when they had an INCREASE in money by 10 million over the year before. 10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
665
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Posted - 2014.06.20 19:49:00 -
[415] - Quote
Maz Ngomo wrote:Jaxo Enaka wrote:PC Gamer Issue 255 Aug 2014 (current issue)
"...average Eve player is between 25 and 35"
I'm curious as to how they claim to know this since I for one have never revealed my age to CCP or PC Gamer. Judging by the increasing amount of immature behaviour of a lot of the players both in game and on the forums I would have figured it to be a lot lower.
as you have to be 13 or older to play, one of the requirements when you make a new account is to put in your birthdate. Even if you lied, others won't. so they compile that info.
same way they know hoe manyh males and females play eve. There is a box asking your sex.
User id
e-mail
sex
age
They can then cross refence e-mail addresses to help determine true subscriber numbers vs accounts. I.e. if I have 10 accounts all liked to the same e-mail they can ignore the 9 accounts and say I am 1 subscriber. 10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
147
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Posted - 2014.06.20 19:52:00 -
[416] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Look at it this way, less viable IP makes CCP less of a buyout target. Imagine if EA bought CCPs assets... WHEN CCP gets bought out, it will be really interesting to see the direction of Eve then. I should be careful. I am not entirely sure who precisely owns CCP, but as I understand, it is a consortium of private individuals / groups. Eventually, as CCP continues to mismanage their cash streams with some hugely expensive misadventures, the investors will say "enough", and have no choice but to fire the exec team, or sell the Eve IP, or both. Who will buy the Eve IP, who knows? But it will indeed lead to some interesting times. Except i'm not sure how you can claim the cash stream was mismanaged. Last year ccp made 10m more then the year before. The "loss" was only a loss because they decided to shift focus away for other projects completely, and thus all the work done on WoD for over 8 years had to be written off, which bring son layoffs. And this last round would be the final piece of cutting projects that they no longer wish to work on. Right now talking about CCP mismanaging cash is a bit silly. If in sept when the 6 month report comes out and you see a big loss still then you can worry. Till then this really is not anything. Here is my issue, you can not ignore the fact that ccp has sense around 07 made profit, every year, except last year. And the only reason they did not make any last year was both the cutting of WoD and the cost to get Dust fully up and running. Thouse two factors alone ate into ccp's profits. So going 'omg they had a huge loss they are dying' is a bit silly, when they had an INCREASE in money by 10 million over the year before.
Well, in some corporate offices, spending 21 million dollars to develop a videogame 3 times in 7 years and end up releasing nothing and firing everyone who ever touched it would be deemed "mismanagment"... Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
550
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Posted - 2014.06.20 23:35:00 -
[417] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote: Well, in some corporate offices, spending 21 million dollars to develop a videogame 3 times in 7 years and end up releasing nothing and firing everyone who ever touched it would be deemed "mismanagment"...
In the Casino industry it only takes $3 million. |
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