| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Weirda
   |
Posted - 2006.06.13 15:37:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Insomnium
So besides the fact getting to near perfect skills which take you one helluvah long time (Missiles/Projectiles/and even Drones!) I feel that the 7.5% bonus is justified because it's just that long/intense to train up to fly this potential behemoth, and if you do have the skills. Props to you mate. Have fun with your 7.5% Typhoon, you've earned it.
qftmft! 
bring it! 
and hippo - get out of here you tubby *****! 
__
Weirda
Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More! |
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 15:43:00 -
[32]
@ OP Dominix reference :: Actually, no. It can barely fit dual 250mm after a decent tank. But we know what you meant.
@ Training times :: No. No, not at all. That's not a justification. There's currently a lobby going on about making the Typhoon tank and deal damage similarly to the other battleships. That's fine. Your reward for the skill time is in other, lesser, attributes - the Typhoon is the smallest and fastest battleship in game!
New sig coming soonÖ
Single dots after a sentence. Line break before beginning a new line of reasoning. Such small things to help people read your post. |
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 15:44:00 -
[33]
No love for me here I think.
Given my two characters are minmatar and caldari, I am usually OK in most balance threads for those two races by saying something would be overpowered. Guess I'm not here
|
Leandro Salazar
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:00:00 -
[34]
Would 7.5% damage instead of RoF also be overpowered for you Hippo?
---------
ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
|
Weirda
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:05:00 -
[35]
sorry hippo - was joking.
point being - there are few pilot that would ever be able to get the 'theoretical max' out of the phoon. and even those that do, would have little/no tank whatsoever. weirda support most of what testy say, but don't think that fitting should be adjusted, this ship should always require the compromise that it does... as it CAN CURRENTLY be fit to tank well (in spite of what ppl say) OR to deal dmg... but not both.
__
Weirda
Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More! |
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Would 7.5% damage instead of RoF also be overpowered for you Hippo?
no, but testy wouldn't be happy 
That gets 3% more damage at maxed skills, testy wants 20%
|
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:11:00 -
[37]
Theoretical Typhoon with 7.5% ROF bonus:
4x Heavy Diminishing NOS
4x Siege Launcher II
100MN AB II
Faint Warp Prohibitor
2x PWNAGE painter
LAR II
MAR II
2x EAN II
Internal Force Field Array
BCU II
RCU II
5x Ogre II + 5x Warrior II + 5x Hornet II
869 DPS. 4 Heavy NOS. Awesome armor tank. Fastest battleship. Lowest sig radius (320m). Torps only doing 10% more damage than cruise against an unpainted Phoon! It would absolutely annihiliate anything it comes across. I can understand why Minnie crew would love this. Nothing like having a one stop solution to pwning the feck out of everything!
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:19:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
7.5% typhoon setup
Why dont you post something you feel is more balanced then? By the way, what is the dps of the maxed out Raven for comparison?
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Leandro Salazar
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:27:00 -
[39]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Would 7.5% damage instead of RoF also be overpowered for you Hippo?
no, but testy wouldn't be happy
That gets 3% more damage at maxed skills, testy wants 20%
I don't want testy to be happy, I want my phoon to be happy 
And I am sure it would be with 7.5% damage instead of 5% RoF.
---------
ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
|
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:31:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Why dont you post something you feel is more balanced then? By the way, what is the dps of the maxed out Raven for comparison?
I have no problems with a Typhoon that has 5% ROF bonus to both projectiles and launchers. While the damage can be quite high, I think it's mitigated somewhat by several factors. But the 7.5% ROF bonus would be just obscene which is what I'm trying to illustrate.
Raven with 6x Siege II, 5x Hammerhead II, 3x BCU II does 1094.3 DPS. It would also have no tank whatsoever if you required it to paint, much less scramble the target like the Phoon could. Not to mention the complete lack of any NOS due to lack of grid. In short, it would die horribly against a Phoon with 7.5% ROF bonus. So outmatched it hurts even thinking about it
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
Raven with 6x Siege II, 5x Hammerhead II, 3x BCU II does 1094.3 DPS. It would also have no tank whatsoever if you required it to paint, much less scramble the target like the Phoon could. Not to mention the complete lack of any NOS due to lack of grid. In short, it would die horribly against a Phoon with 7.5% ROF bonus. So outmatched it hurts even thinking about it
Most of these advantages that the phoon gets in this scenario is because its armor tanking and hence have free med slots for jamming and painting. Almost all of the shield tankers need tacklers if they want to kill something. Maybe it would be better to compare the dps with the megathron or apocalypse since they are also armor tankers.
You seem to be good with the numbers, so ill just let you crunch it if you dont mind... 
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:55:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 13/06/2006 17:00:19
Originally by: Toaster Oven
Theoretical Typhoon with 7.5% ROF bonus:
4x Heavy Diminishing NOS
4x Siege Launcher II
100MN AB II
Faint Warp Prohibitor
2x PWNAGE painter
LAR II
MAR II
2x EAN II
Internal Force Field Array
BCU II
RCU II
5x Ogre II + 5x Warrior II + 5x Hornet II
869 DPS.
Its a solid tank, not awesome. What do you call the dual large armour reps with cap booster tanks if the above is awesome?
869 DPS my arse. Two TP's doesn't give 1000 sig for any BS.
Say the average is 400m.
First T2 TP makes it 520m.
Second T2 TP (stacking penalty is 87.5% from memory so effect drops to 26.25%) makes it 656.
A scorp the biggest sig BS would still be less than 700.
So lets take 70% of the DPS of the missiles (drone DPS doesn't drop) so actual DPS would be just under 700 unless the target has MWD running all the time.
Not so uber now is it. A Dominix with T2 Dual 250mm + T2 heavy drones has the same DPS but has replacement drones, more mids for EW and such where typhoon has to use TP's.
|
Rexy
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 16:55:00 -
[43]
it needs more cargo space, maybe 800m3 or so. if you wonder why try fitting a few loads of t2 ammo, various types of course we cant live by antimatter/void alone,bunch of javelin torps, bunch of normal torps so you can actually move etc, stuff takes a lot of space 
|
Raider Zero
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:03:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
You must be high on ***** if you believe that.
Typhoon with 7.5% ROF bonus on launchers would do 4/.625 = 6.4 launchers worth of damage
Raven with it's 5% ROF bonus on launchers does 6/.75 = 8 launchers worth of damage
Typhoon with 7.5% ROF bonus on turrets would do 4/.625 = 6.4 turrets worth of damage
Tempest in comparison does 6*(1.25/.75) = 10 turrets worth of damage
So you would be doing *80%* of the damage of a Raven with half your high slots, and *64%* of the damage of a Tempest with the other 4 high slots. Add the monster drone bay on top of that. Your max theoretical DPS with 6 dmg mods and maxed out skills would be *1647.2* DPS.
Yeah, that's not overpowered at all...
Actually, it's not. Run the numbers on a max skilled Domi with T2 heavies and T2 blasters with void. Post what you come up with. And that Domi would not need any missile skills and would have the extra drone bay to still be able to choose damage types. Remember that in order to meet that nearly 1650 DPS, you need to max out Drones, Missiles, Guns, and probably have advanced weapon upgrades at 4 or 5, as well as BS 5. It would be the 'Phoon the way it's meant to be-hard to master but powerful if you do. And it would still have unusually strong structural integrity for a Minmatar ship which is important to all of us.
|
Imhotep Khem
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:06:00 -
[45]
Are you people crazy listening to this Toaster character? What kind of kit is a Typhoon going to fit with 3000 fewer MW than a Tempest?
Gank Setups always do high damage. And were talking RMR where you need to sustain over time!?! Hell naw. You take that gank fitting up against a Tepest and get crushed like the trash can you are.
rolleyes.
____
"If your not dyin' your not tryin'."
"Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:07:00 -
[46]
i mostly agree with the OP
the only thing i will change is more powergrid (instead of 1000 powergrid and 50 cpu) as is quite problematic to do a decebt arty setup for the phoon
i also don't think that 7.5% to ROF will be umbalanced, is a good bonus appliend on 8 wapons but we have to consider that the ship get also less benefits than other ones from dmg mods.
not to say that as an armor tank it have not much chances to mount many damage mods.
and another drawback is that to express its potential it needs a huge amount on SPs compared to other ships
so before to say is balanced or not with 7.5% i think it will need some real testing with different configs and chars with various SPs
|
Dexter Rast
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:15:00 -
[47]
to the OP,
description, yeah it could do with a revamp, but its not realy important,
bonus`s, agreed on this point, 7.5% would compensate nicely for the split weapons system, since fitting a full rack of max damage weapons coupled with damage mods is very unlikely,
statistics, as for the armor and sheild swap, its still a good armor tanker as is, i just look upon the extra sheilds as an extra buffer, makes no real difference whichever is the highest,
mineral cost, agree totaly, lower the zydrine content in exchange for more trit or pyerite, would make things happy
fittings, yup this ship has problems with grid, cpu i have never had a problem with, boosting the grid would have to be done carefully as to not overpower this ship in the hands of a max`d skilled pilot, got to remember it is a tier 1 BS and should have a few fitting problems, upping the grid could make it too good, i would prefer to see a slightly bigger drone bay rather than a grid boost tbh
---------------------------------------------
Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques |
Imhotep Khem
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:15:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ath Amon
...but we have to consider that the ship get also less benefits than other ones from dmg mods.
...
It gets more benefit from even numbers of damage mods :P
____
"If your not dyin' your not tryin'."
"Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:19:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
a solid tank, not awesome. What do you call the dual large armour reps with cap booster tanks if the above is awesome?
Putting the same kit on two different BS doesn't net the same effect. Speed and sig radius play a big role. Did you actually expect a Typhoon with 320m3 sig radius going 500m/s to be taking the same amount of damage as a dual LAR Apoc with no speed mods? I've flown both long enough to know that's not the case at all.
Quote:
869 DPS my arse. Two TP's doesn't give 1000 sig for any BS.
Quite right about that. But I don't fly solo, and I don't know anyone who flies around in a battleship looking (hoping) for 1vs1 encounter either. And 4 TII TP with max skills will take most BS up to about 1000m sig radius. Your numbers are wrong btw. You don't take into account signature focusing skill.
Quote:
A Dominix with T2 Dual 250mm + T2 heavy drones has the same DPS but has replacement drones, more mids for EW and such where typhoon has to use TP's.
Sure, it may have the same DPS. Does it have 4 Heavy NOS as well? No? Didn't think so.
|
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:24:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Are you people crazy listening to this Toaster character? What kind of kit is a Typhoon going to fit with 3000 fewer MW than a Tempest?
Blah Blah Blah. Crazy ranting ftl. Gank setup lose to a well balanced setup? SHOCK! Was wondering when Captain Obvious was gonna show up
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:36:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/06/2006 17:37:14
Dont let the thread become a flame fest. Fixing the typhoon is too important to let this thread die in rabble rabble rabble.
Imhotep Khem: If you dont like something, post some better solution please.
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
Putting the same kit on two different BS doesn't net the same effect. Speed and sig radius play a big role. Did you actually expect a Typhoon with 320m3 sig radius going 500m/s to be taking the same amount of damage as a dual LAR Apoc with no speed mods? I've flown both long enough to know that's not the case at all.
Sure I see your point, but the Typhoon has lower Hp than other BS and webbers are common so having the option of fitting a awesome tank would be nice which it doesn't have atm with current PG/CPU.
Quote:
Quite right about that. But I don't fly solo, and I don't know anyone who flies around in a battleship looking (hoping) for 1vs1 encounter either. And 4 TII TP with max skills will take most BS up to about 1000m sig radius. Your numbers are wrong btw. You don't take into account signature focusing skill.
Bugger another skill to add to the list thats a mile long already, say level 4 of that skill for 20%. 20% on top of the T2s 30% would give 36%.
Quote:
Sure, it may have the same DPS. Does it have 4 Heavy NOS as well? No? Didn't think so.
Is the Typhoon able to fit a handful of ECM (the I win button), web, cap booster? No? Didn't think so.
Sure against other ships such as a Mega things would get interesting without ECM but lets not do the theory of every pvp battle possible.
|
Tiuwaz
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 17:39:00 -
[53]
i never listen to the toaster , to the fridge maybe (keeps my beer cool) but not to the toaster
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
|
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 18:01:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 13/06/2006 18:04:11
Edited by: Ath Amon on 13/06/2006 18:02:40
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Originally by: Ath Amon
...but we have to consider that the ship get also less benefits than other ones from dmg mods.
...
It gets more benefit from even numbers of damage mods :P
how it get more benefits?
phoon: 1 module = 4 weapons & 1 dmg ship bonus
phoon: 2 module = 8 weapons & 1 dmg ship bonus
geddon: 1 module = 7 weapons & 1 dmg ship bonus
tempest: 1 module = 6 weapons & 2 dmg ship bonuses
to me it really seem that the benefits from damage mods are inferior and not superior to other ships
nosfy makes also thing worse as for every nos you put on it you impact on a bonus of the ship... as with the ships above
1 nos
geddon: 7 weapon - 7 dmg bonuses & 7 "utility" bonuses
tempest: 7 weapons - 12 dmg bonuses (6 turrets x2)
phoon: 7 weapons - 7 dmg bonuses
2 nos
geddon: 6 weapon - 6 dmg bonuses & 6 "utility" bonuses
tempest: 6 weapons - 12 dmg bonuses (6 turrets x2)
phoon: 6 weapons - 6 dmg bonuses
4 nos
geddon: 4 weapon - 4 dmg bonuses & 4 "utility" bonuses
tempest: 4 weapons - 8 dmg bonuses (4 turrets x2)
phoon: 4 weapons - 4 dmg bonuses (1 ship bonus is not used at all)
also consider that proj have the worse DPS that need 2 dmg bonus on the tempest to keep then near other turret
|
Serj Darek
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 18:05:00 -
[55]
Well, I have a thread about just the description!
Fix it please.
Fix the Typhoon description! 3 years in the making!
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 18:08:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Serj Darek
Well, I have a thread about just the description!
Fix it please.
The ccp devs can only write code, so they need to bring in highly skilled specialists to fix stuff like changing a description.
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Amy Wang
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 18:17:00 -
[57]
7,5 % damage bonus to both waepons together with the large drone bay would be a little over the top
- boost pg (1-2k) and cpu (50+)
- reduce build costs by 10 Mio worth
- switch armor and shield hp (stupid to have more shield then armor on a armor tanker)
- IF the ships is STILL underpowered with these changes (which I dont think it will be) THEN consider increasing
ONE of the two weapon systems to 7,5 rof, preferably the launcher making the ship more unique compard to the tempest and upcoming tier3 bs (which will be turret heavy as well)
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 18:47:00 -
[58]
I wish Tuxford would post what he feels about these proposed changes, but like he said in his blog, any thread he posts in will become "the" thread to post stuff like "when will carriers be fixed" etc etc.
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Wizie
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 19:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
Theoretical Typhoon with 7.5% ROF bonus:
4x Heavy Diminishing NOS
4x Siege Launcher II
100MN AB II
Faint Warp Prohibitor
2x PWNAGE painter
LAR II
MAR II
2x EAN II
Internal Force Field Array
BCU II
RCU II
5x Ogre II + 5x Warrior II + 5x Hornet II
869 DPS. 4 Heavy NOS. Awesome armor tank. Fastest battleship. Lowest sig radius (320m). Torps only doing 10% more damage than cruise against an unpainted Phoon! It would absolutely annihiliate anything it comes across. I can understand why Minnie crew would love this. Nothing like having a one stop solution to pwning the feck out of everything!
Pretty lame setup allround tbh. Relying too much on the NOS factor.
A large majority of that dmg stated comes from siege doing max dmg (not realistic) and the drones.... Lose 1 drone, and that theoretical dps bites the dust. Lose 2.. might as well head home for new ones.
Very weak tank... considering the dps is not high enough. Fitting weak tanks is good if you can have a semi gank. I don't call 4 siege II and 5 ogre IIs a gank.
I am against the missile rof bonus.. however if it is brought in, I would hope that the phoon gets some other buff to balance it out against other BS that do the same or better with just a signle dmg bonus.
-----------------
Sig removed by some noob |
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 20:22:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/06/2006 20:24:45
How about this bonus:
100% reduction in t2 ammo penalties
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |