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Ok, So Now Let's Balance Local Now To \0/\0/

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Christine Peeveepeeski The Amarrian Lyceum 545	Posted - 2014.06.19 02:23:00 - [31] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Christine Peeveepeeski wrote: Perhaps the alliance you are in could see their way to setting aside a few guys to patrol your space. Pay them maybe? With the rent isk? Some user content RIGHT THERE. Oh wait that'd be silly, that isk I am sure would be better spent shooting at carebears in high sec that get angry they are getting stopped from making isk in a risk free envir........ wait a freaking second. I see some kind of pattern.... Yeah let's sit on a gate for several hours just so people can rat. What a fun and engaging gameplay mechanic. That's what you got from 'patrol your space'? Wow, you either have no imagination or you are so used to arguing against changes to local that you're not actually putting any thought into what 'could' be. Bare in mind that your small gangers would benefit from doing to your enemies what can be done to you and arguably null sec alliances have so many bored players about surely the extra content option would be welcome. It would also attract more small gang minded people into null sec. There is literally 0 reason to head too null right now for small gangers/soloers. Arguably the only reason you do is because your capital alt is in an F1 alliance and you may also use null for anom running (although as far as I can tell thats a mugs game'. BAH ****** up the quote, my apologies
Eternum Praetorian Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1179	Posted - 2014.06.19 02:35:00 - [32] - Quote Christine Peeveepeeski wrote: [ That's what you got from 'patrol your space'? Wow, you either have no imagination or you are so used to arguing against changes to local that you're not actually putting any thought into what 'could' be.s I know right, when you said that I thought more along the lines of "you and you dock up and go pwn this guy". Rage cage the gate and get his ass. That is what you "badasses" in null sec are supposed to do right? Miners these days have nothing to fear from my little interceptor either. I can just float and sputter as a fleet of mining procurers deal 1,000 dps and 10 drones each. How many inty's do you think that could **** if they had even the slightest fleet coordination? Maybe you just forgot what "being a major null sec alliance" is supposed to mean. The EVE Gateway Blog
Val'Dore PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation 557	Posted - 2014.06.19 02:37:00 - [33] - Quote Local should be and always should have been treated the same as Alliance and W-Space Local. This notion that you must be able to immediately know everyone in the system is ludicrous in a game as hardcore as EvE. It would be like playing an FPS and hacking the radar. SJD I invented Tiericide
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 10478	Posted - 2014.06.19 02:44:00 - [34] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Current Local (nuetral) Cancel Align NOW (green star) James Amril-Kesh (green star) Jmay Onzo (red minus) Eternum Praetorian (blue star) Weasiler Proposed Local (nuetral) UNKNOWN PILOT (green star) James Amril-Kesh (green star) Jmay Onzo (red minus) UNKNOWN PILOT (blue star) Weasiler Seems like a better system to me. Seems like the same system to me. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.06.19 02:52:00 - [35] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Current Local (nuetral) Cancel Align NOW (green star) James Amril-Kesh (green star) Jmay Onzo (red minus) Eternum Praetorian (blue star) Weasiler Proposed Local (nuetral) UNKNOWN PILOT (green star) James Amril-Kesh (green star) Jmay Onzo (red minus) UNKNOWN PILOT (blue star) Weasiler Seems like a better system to me. Seems like the same system to me. The difference is, a/ instead of posting the names of the neutrals and hostiles in intel channels and having some one 35 jumps away post: "normally flies a taranis never engages." Some one has to go hunt who it is first. b/ instead of copy pasting names of the neutrals and hostiles into google and +ing the name of the fotm killboard and eveboard then loading ammo accordingly you have to go and find out who it is first
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 5009	Posted - 2014.06.19 03:02:00 - [36] - Quote IMO a "Mode 4/IFF" system similar to what the RL air forces use would be more ideal, and use around such a system can signify intent. Basically it's a beacon that, to those who are blue to you (or organization) can see you in local and who you are, but those who are not only know that "someone" is there, but do not get any telemetry ID or information. But a separate mode for "broadcast all" (used to be called "Mode 2" back in the day - airlines use this) that lets you be visible, name and all, in local. So if you are some heinously known PVPer perhaps you can use that to your advantage. Shut the entire thing down though, and all that's known is "someone is in the system". Who? Is it a friend who did not turn on their Mode2/4? What are they trying to hide? Who is that? I gotta know! Arrrrgh!! To be fair though, this system could even work in highsec but flying without your ID "on" gives you a suspect flag (just like flying a plane into foreign airspace without any identifier will get you similar attention) - but for some situations where kill rights are concerned or highsec wars, having a suspect flag might be better than the 100 guys ready to gank you in a wardec - but those same 100 guys might have to chase every suspect flag. You see a little applied thought instead of "hurf blurf" can go a long way and I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 1717	Posted - 2014.06.19 03:10:00 - [37] - Quote The only argument in favor of removing Local from null is by those who are actively looking for a fight. Arguably there are hundreds of other usages of a system that do not involve actively looking for a fight, such as: Travel Any PVE activity (explo, ratting, PI, mining) These usages currently rely on Local as intel to augment other intelligence methods (corp intel channels, cloaks scouts, dscan, etc.) Your only argument for removing Local is to make finding fights easier. Removing Local makes all these other usages I've described more difficult. Making your own specific usage easier isn't a particularly good argument. The burden is on you to argue why the current rules are making for a worse game overall. I don't particularly see why gate camping should be any easier than it already is. .. when everything else is gone ..
Val'Dore PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation 559	Posted - 2014.06.19 03:19:00 - [38] - Quote Gate camping is partially due to how powerful Local is... SJD I invented Tiericide
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 1718	Posted - 2014.06.19 03:21:00 - [39] - Quote Actually, I'll take that back. Gate camping (and escaping camps) is no easier or worse with the proposed change to Local. Neither side will benefit from the intelligence provided (entrants wouldn't know about cloaked lurkers, campers wouldn't know the moment someone has entered the system). I'll also add another point. Wormholes exist in the game with the exact Local mechanics you are looking for. Why don't you go play in Wormholes to get this experience? Is there any particular reason null Local mechanics need to be like WH? How will this improve the game? I'd like to see an answer in both micro and macro scale.. .. when everything else is gone ..
Christine Peeveepeeski The Amarrian Lyceum 547	Posted - 2014.06.19 03:29:00 - [40] - Quote Did you read the OP? It's not removal of local. The idea is sound and you would not get any less knowledge of somebody being in your system, you just need to see them to find out who they are. As for it being to get fights.... er yes, yes it is. Actually it's to generate content, in null sec. Currently null sec seems so devoid of it people don't play and turn to low and high sec to get their kicks. Unless a capitals tackled of course then it's **** LOG IN THE TITAN HUGGER CHAR.

Sibyyl Gallente Federation 1719	Posted - 2014.06.19 03:40:00 - [41] - Quote Christine Peeveepeeski wrote: Did you read the OP? It's not removal of local. The idea is sound and you would not get any less knowledge of somebody being in your system, you just need to see them to find out who they are. Maybe you don't know how to use Local properly. A static pod count is worthless. It is the removal of Local for all intents and purposes. Local as it is built allows you to do difflists so as to track changes in a system (try Ctrl+A in the pilot list sometime). A static pod count tells me nothing about war targets or specific pilots. If you like the absence of Local, you can fly in WH. Why is that a problem for you? Quote: As for it being to get fights.... er yes, yes it is. Actually it's to generate content, in null sec. Currently null sec seems so devoid of it people don't play and turn to low and high sec to get their kicks. Unless a capitals tackled of course then it's **** LOG IN THE TITAN HUGGER CHAR. You call it "generate content". I call it easy mode for pew. I have pew pilots too, but I see no compelling reason presented here to rebalance things more in favor towards roamers and weaken activities with static locations within a system. Is PVP in 0.0 too difficult for you right now? Do you feel exposed with your war target-y name blinking in Local for the natives? .. when everything else is gone ..
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 1719	Posted - 2014.06.19 03:43:00 - [42] - Quote And seriously, hiding me in Local makes my job mining rocks a lot easier. I'd be happy if that change was made. You don't want this. It's a terrible way to suck a lot of content out of 0.0. .. when everything else is gone ..
Quinn Corvez Probe Patrol Ixtab. 237	Posted - 2014.06.19 06:00:00 - [43] - Quote I think one easy fix would be to delay someone's appearance in local. You should only show up once your session change cloak has ended. After that, the ability for players to hide themselves from local is something we have needed for a long time.
Chopper Rollins Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 865	Posted - 2014.06.19 06:34:00 - [44] - Quote Yeah look, we have hisec, low sec, null sec and wh space. The first is rookie pond, the last is end game. Null is for sov, low is for FW and as an intermediate between high and null. Limited playstylers who want this to be more like that, high to be null, whatever, don't get it and have not thought through the ramifications of the changes. Also, insults to other playstyles invalidate suggestions. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 279	Posted - 2014.06.19 07:13:00 - [45] - Quote Or as I have said in other thread about this subject, what about binding local to how active the system actually is. Idea of a mechanic would be similar to how sov status goes up and down depending on activity and but local would depend on how many individual pilots log on and off in the system (pos or station or space) during the day. So lvl 0-1 would be just an announcement that xxx has arrived the system and local would work identical to w-holes. lvl 2 would have gate announcement, and 5 minute timer but still doesn't track if you actually leave the system. lvl 3 gate announcement, 15min timer and tracks if you leave the system. lvl 4 same as above but with a 45min timer and tracking lvl 5 would have the announcement and would behave as the local that we have now. Gate announcement could be turned off or maybe it would just say several people arrived if say more then 10 jump in tah the same time ? So that gate wouldn't spam local all the time in busy systems. Idea of mine behind this is to reward actually living in space that you own be that you or your renters and make it fell less like a frontier in habited space and more so in places where it isn't. Note that I left w-hole activation from the list just because it makes to much sense and might leave a cyno as well because you don't arrive to a system through a gate in both cases.
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 1030	Posted - 2014.06.19 07:17:00 - [46] - Quote Quinn Corvez wrote: I think one easy fix would be to delay someone's appearance in local. You should only show up once your session change cloak has ended. After that, the ability for players to hide themselves from local is something we have needed for a long time. IMO that would require you to not be able to see local, and not be able to use your d-scan since you are immune to both. I would not care if you can see the gate grid, because participants on the gate grid can see the gate flash.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility 3432	Posted - 2014.06.19 07:22:00 - [47] - Quote Here's the non-argument for the change provided by the OP: 1) I just didn't like it that they new exactly who was there. 2) People can see I'm there. -> Here's my solution for that. You can still dock up if you see +1 in local this is the actual 'reasoning' provided by the way followed by Quote: The first null guy hopelessly reliant on his easy button local speaks. Dude, you can still know someone is there without knowing who is there. Quote: Man you null guys really are scared **less aren't you What? WTF does it matter if you still know that someone is there? Why do you HAVE to know who is there? What is the gain? I don't get it. Quote:** You have not posted a single valid counter argument so far... except for the fact that you want to keep your super stupid easy button. Even CCP stated that they wanted to do away with local but now it is too engrained to do so. So what is YOUR reasoning on this matter? ... [fallacies]
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 1030	Posted - 2014.06.19 07:42:00 - [48] - Quote Baneken wrote: Idea of mine behind this is to reward actually living in space that you own be that you or your renters and make it fell less like a frontier in habited space and more so in places where it isn't. Note that I left w-hole activation from the list just because it makes to much sense and might leave a cyno as well because you don't arrive to a system through a gate in both cases. You appear to be doubling up on the purposes performed by indexes. As a solo player I can occasionally hold the military index at 4, and can't even scratch indy at all. A large corp can hold index 5 on all indexes, and in my case, on my pipe that gives them a forsaken hub, more reasonable anomolies total, more miniprofs and more ded signature spawns, and when they are at indy 5 they get enough anomolies to make determining the location of the miners not absolutely automatic and trivial. Intel quality should be tied to effort made in collecting said intel, it shouldn't be a reward for logging in and out, which I would simply do x number of times a day to improve mine, all the time gritting my teeth and hating you for making me do such a stupid pointless thing (a well known phenomenon in gaming). I happen to pve within d-scan range of my gates, which is a risk (i'm relatively close to interceptors on the gate) and a reward (I can always see the hull type of an entrant by spamming after they arrive in local). Intel should be tied to effort and risk, not logging on.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan 5489	Posted - 2014.06.19 08:01:00 - [49] - Quote Can I get a TL;DR? Or is it just "if you dont self destruct your ship, you are a coward" again? "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "How the * can you think you are entitled to be such an ****?-áYou're lucky you're ALLOWED to have an opinion ..." - Solecist Project
Llyona Lazerhawks 53	Posted - 2014.06.19 09:06:00 - [50] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Christine Peeveepeeski wrote: Perhaps the alliance you are in could see their way to setting aside a few guys to patrol your space. Pay them maybe? With the rent isk? Some user content RIGHT THERE. Oh wait that'd be silly, that isk I am sure would be better spent shooting at carebears in high sec that get angry they are getting stopped from making isk in a risk free envir........ wait a freaking second. I see some kind of pattern.... Yeah let's sit on a gate for several hours just so people can rat. What a fun and engaging gameplay mechanic. The hilarious thing is, this is exactly what happens in W-space. We have cloaky alts on the various holes keeping eyes on who comes and goes. We seem to be operating just fine this way without any local, all while flying ships worth far more than your carriers. When it comes down to it, local makes people lazy and entitled. I think the best solution to the local problem is removing cloaked ships from the list. EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.

Rectile Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2014.06.19 09:31:00 - [51] - Quote OP has a few good points, why should null bears who are docked up have an eye and ear on everything, 'where is the risk'? for so much reward especially in null sec the allegedly most dangerous part of New Eden. Local chat is too powerful as it is It should be delayed at the very least but preferably the same as WH's any one who opposes this change are generally null bears or botters and have not got the true essence or longevity of eve in mind.
Milla Stenier-Tian CareBear Refrigerated Transport Inc 4	Posted - 2014.06.19 09:37:00 - [52] - Quote Felicity Love wrote: It can be argued that npc Empire factions have all kinds of apparatus in each system to keep track of any capsuleer's whereabouts. Big Brother is always watching. In the deep dark of Null, nobody gives a damn. And certainly not the passive apparatus of Empire factions -- because it doesn't exist out there. I like this Idea. May the nullsec would required an ihub with a new upgrade to track peoples in local. If not : no local (unless you speak in local). The background could be explain by the way you said.
Eternum Praetorian Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1186	Posted - 2014.06.19 12:17:00 - [53] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Your only argument for removing Local is to make finding fights easier. Removing Local makes all these other usages I've described more difficult.. My dear Sibyyl, being that all alliances but CVA operate under a NBSI flag. If you had all blues visible to you in local + 1 pod (in the proposed pod count) that was unaccounted for in local... then, you would have the exact same intel as you have right now wouldn't you? You can run and dock up per usual. The only thing you lose is the character's name. So nothing is made more difficult for you as you suggest. Everything for you remains the same except for the fact that you don't get instant identification of who is in local 10 jumps away while you are docked in station. No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic. It is just now so ancient and engrained in EVE that it is not obvious to people anymore. You're living in NULL sec. Null sec not Empire. That should mean something. The EVE Gateway Blog
Eternum Praetorian Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1186	Posted - 2014.06.19 12:54:00 - [54] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: And seriously, hiding me in Local makes my job mining rocks a lot easier. I'd be happy if that change was made. You don't want this. It's a terrible way to suck a lot of content out of 0.0. How does knowing that there is a pod in local... but not exactly you in local, make your job easier? The EVE Gateway Blog
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility 3433	Posted - 2014.06.19 12:59:00 - [55] - Quote Eternum Praetorian wrote: So nothing is made more difficult for you as you suggest. Everything for you remains the same except for the fact that you don't get instant identification of who is in local 10 jumps away while you are docked in station. No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic. It is just now so ancient and engrained in EVE that it is not obvious to people anymore. You're living in NULL sec. Null sec not Empire and that should mean something. you still have provided no reason for a change beyond "i don't like it" noone gets instant identification of someone ten jumps away living in nullsec means that anyone can shoot you anywhere at anytime with no penalty and that bombs/bubbles are allowed Quote: No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic. yes they should and no it's not.
Eternum Praetorian Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1187	Posted - 2014.06.19 13:04:00 - [56] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: you still have provided no reason for a change beyond "i don't like it" Sure i have *you* just don't like it. Benny Ohu wrote: noone gets instant identification of someone ten jumps away WTF world are you living in? Do you really expect any of us to believe that? Benny Ohu wrote: No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic. yes they should and no it's not. Why? Why should people docked many systems away know that specifically I am there? This is not the spirit in which EVE Online was founded. Even the devs stated that local could use some fixing, it is just that people like you cry quarts every time a fair improvement is submitted. Mostly... because you have no real PVP skill and do not realize that such a change would hardly effect you at all. The EVE Gateway Blog
Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 116	Posted - 2014.06.19 13:14:00 - [57] - Quote Another stealth chat thread IB4L "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith
Eternum Praetorian Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1187	Posted - 2014.06.19 13:16:00 - [58] - Quote Agondray wrote: Another stealth chat thread IB4L Your alliance name VOID Intergalactic Forces makes me think you live in null and really, really like your local. Sorry to break it to you but this is a legitimate discussion on a relevant topic. ISD's have no business locking a thread like this until it goes south. The EVE Gateway Blog
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility 3437	Posted - 2014.06.19 13:17:00 - [59] - Quote Eternum Praetorian wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: you still have provided no reason for a change beyond "i don't like it" Sure i have *you* just don't like it. no, that's the only reason you've submitted so far to make a change. "i don't like it" Eternum Praetorian wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: noone gets instant identification of someone ten jumps away WTF world are you living in? Do you really expect any of us to believe that? the game does not tell you who's ten jumps away. Eternum Praetorian wrote: Why? Why should people docked many systems away know that specifically I am there? This is not the spirit in which EVE Online was founded. Even the devs stated that local could use some fixing, it is just that people like you cry quarts every time a fair improvement is submitted. Mostly... because you have no real PVP skill and do not realize that such a change would hardly effect you at all. See post #53 and #54. Your ignorance and fear make you imagine a world were simply not knowing a character's name would make Null Sec a PVP free for all. That is just not the case at all. perhaps you should provide a reason for it being a bad game mechanic. otherwise any statement you make is refuted with "no it's not". more fallacy. it doesn't matter my level of pvp skills and it doesn't matter how much a change'd effect me. it also doesn't matter if i'm ignorant or fearful, you have still to provide an actual valid reason to make a change.
Rumtin Imperium Technologies Evictus. 81	Posted - 2014.06.19 13:18:00 - [60] - Quote Ill agree to drop local from Null sec when High sec dwellers agree to drop CONCORD from empire space.



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