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How can EVE retain new players

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Licio Caleb Caldari State Regulars Heiian Conglomerate 6	Posted - 2014.08.06 05:14:00 - [1] - Quote This is another EVE vs WOW and how EVE needs to do better at retaining new players. Most of the threads that I see comparing EVE and WOW haven been done by players that have a miss-perception of either of games, at least in my POV. The main miss-perception is that in WOW there's no effort or skill needed to play the game. One could play EVE in a venture in a 1.0 system filling up buy orders that pay 50% of what the ore is worth. Or this effortless/skill-less player can decide to do entry level PI, entry level industry and perpetually run lvl 1 missions. In WOW the journey from level 1 to level 90 is to teach the new player how to play their class well. One could do everything in his power to not learn the game despite the game spoon feeding the new player a new skill, concept or mechanic at every few levels. A reasonable gamer is able to get to max level in about 1 month playing moderately. The real game begin at max level, where one needs to know their character and their team mate's characters inside and out to complete PVP and PVE challenges. At max level there's no room for lack of skill or effort, you either play well or you'll find yourself in the equivalent of loosing a deck t3 cruiser to t1 frig faster than you can figure out what happened. If haven't convinced you how much skill one needs to play WOW try the free trial. Back? ok... so now that we have determined that EVE and WOW can both be played at a high skill level or at a level no skill is needed, I would like to move on to the point of the thread. What lessons can CCP learn from Blizzard when we compare their respective games? One puts their id and password for the first time, there's no character selection, you go strait into the trailer and your pumped. Next your ship's in warp and you get GÇ£someoneGÇ¥ talking to you, not something you have to read. The dude talking to you explains that you an reinforcement on this huge battle, you come out of warp and its like a scene from the dominion trailer, lazer beams, missiles and explosions. The GÇ£someoneGÇ¥ is directs you on how and who to target, how to shoot. One of the enemy gets destroyed and the GÇ£someoneGÇ¥ tell you to loot the wreck and take it out of there. And so on... At each step you don't move on until you complete the very basic task. The same can be applied to navigation, the overview, professions... Having all these mini tutorials will ensure the player is no bombarded with a wall of text once their first log in. In closing most of us know what EVE GÇ£end gameGÇ¥ looks like and people try EVE because they see the GÇ£end gameGÇ¥ in you-tube videos and hear their friends tell them about it. But when they log in there's no one talking to them, their no massive fleet, and their no explosions. As the game progresses the training-wheels slowly come off, when player-player interaction takes over from the mini tutorials. Any CEO or FC will tell you that the most important asset in game is people. If new people don't keep coming and learning how this game is great, the current players will become bitter vets and move on. Thanks for reading.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 8470	Posted - 2014.08.06 05:17:00 - [2] - Quote In before lock. Oh, and it's not a misconception that WoW is easy. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." Clean Up Local 2014.-á
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 2640	Posted - 2014.08.06 05:25:00 - [3] - Quote This is a topic discussed to death in recent times and we know from Fanfest that player retention is on CCPs radar, especially due to the poor rate of retaining new players. In my view there is a huge disconnect between the focus of the NPE and the reality of what keeps people in the game. The NPE experience focuses on solo PvE play. When someone finishes the basic tutorials the natural question is: what next? The what next is often the epic arc missions or mining because that's all the NPE equips players for. It doesn't equip them for the social aspects of the game, nor for interaction with other players - wanted or otherwise. The NPE also doesn't equip players with the skills to begin determining their own play, rather than being spoon fed by the environment. But as always, my view is just my own and there are many other valid reasons that contribute too. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari . -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦)
Tweek Etimua The Paragons 54	Posted - 2014.08.06 05:38:00 - [4] - Quote Eve will not retain players like WOW did/has. Simply because they're two different creatures. One wants all your money, demands your time and enslaves entire countries in order to run properly and the other ones eve. 1reason new players dont stick around is that out side the game, Eve is portraid as something entirely different. 3 things are major draws that are actualy myths. One is bounty hunting. Second is Large scale fleet combat. Third is solo pvp. We all know that bounty hunting sucks. But to be honest a better alternative is take away the bounty pool and replace it with a contract system. Just like posting a contract for moving or selling/trading. We could have the same system for killing. Either alow any one to pick it up or asign it to an individual player. Large scale fleet battles is mostly due to the way 100%of eve claims it HAS to be. Its stale and only gives content to fc's. This could easily be changed if corps took some risks and tried different ways of running fleets. Solo pvp is just unique in that for a noob....its extreamly frustating to get jumped by gate campers, better, richer pilots. I dont see any reason to try and change anything about solo pvp. However it is something new player have different visions on what it realy is.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 10927	Posted - 2014.08.06 05:56:00 - [5] - Quote I'm not so sure retaining new players is as much of an issue as is retaining old ones. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh.
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 1134	Posted - 2014.08.06 05:58:00 - [6] - Quote I will agree that the wall of text that i jumped through on the tutorial was kind of boring. I honestly think a more interactive tutorial might at least help reduce the initial learning curve if ever so slightly
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 2643	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:00:00 - [7] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm not so sure retaining new players is as much of an issue as is retaining old ones. +1 on that too. I hope CCP doesn't 'abandon' (for want of a better word) their traditional customers, particularly those in nullsec, while they gear up to focus on retaining new players. Both are essential and eventually aspects like sov need to be addressed or people will go inactive. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari . -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦)
Bloody Slave Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 134	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:01:00 - [8] - Quote if there is anything i would love to see is: CCP learn how to make a video trailer like this, not with Blizzard, of course. On topic, tho, some say that when a player leave EVE to play WoW the QI of both games raise. If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
Derrick Miles EVENumbers 638	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:05:00 - [9] - Quote The reason there is a divide between the two games is because they are designed in two completely different ways. WoW is a themepark and EVE is a sandbox. Furthermore, WoW has a business model designed to appeal to the most people it possibly can, which inevitably means the lowest common denominator. EVE, on the other hand, is a niche game that has more complexity, a higher barrier of entry, and an unforgiving gameplay environment. The result is that there will never be the same new player retention in EVE as there is in WoW because of the fundamental differences in the two games. The ruthless pvp, scamming, griefing, fierce competition, and lasting consequences to your mistakes are both the best and the worst things about EVE and will always continue to drive the majority of people away from the game. But CCP is correct in focusing on the new player experience even so, because of those that remain interested after seeing all that is good and bad about EVE, everything possible needs to be done to keep their continued interest. In this way the game can not just survive but also thrive and expand and we can see even more content and more sand in the sandbox.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 8472	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:08:00 - [10] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: I hope CCP doesn't 'abandon' (for want of a better word) their traditional customers, particularly those in nullsec, while they gear up to focus on retaining new players. I call this "The Casual Fallacy". The non reasoning that somehow alienating your core playerbase can be justified in the name of attracting purely theoretical casual players. It's what killed Ultima Online, most notably. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." Clean Up Local 2014.-á
Commander Rahl Life. Universe. Everything. Clockwork Pineapple 5	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:13:00 - [11] - Quote The real misconception is that any MMO takes actual skill. Real mechanical skill. I can't think of a single one that does, including EVE. MMOs require knowledge of the game and time. Examples of games that require mechanical skill would be games like StarCraft, Dota, Counter-Strike, etc.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 5681	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:15:00 - [12] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm not so sure retaining new players is as much of an issue as is retaining old ones. I'm getting a serious bittervet vibe from your posting of late, James. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2051	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:32:00 - [13] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm not so sure retaining new players is as much of an issue as is retaining old ones. I'm getting a serious bittervet vibe from your posting of late, James. Mr Epeen I'm guessing the much wanted "industry in nullsec" changes haven't brought the waves of people that were going to live there, and they still can't figure out why. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Magnasis Drakkenwolf 8	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:32:00 - [14] - Quote Playing this game for 2 yrs like me really has made the game kinda bland imo. I think a way to retain older players is to keep doing the expansions, not the patches. Create more interactive content. Mining, ratting, pvping gets old quick for players like myself. There can be only one.. http://www.youtube.com/user/KensCrazyGaming
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2468	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:37:00 - [15] - Quote Is it the same in other MMOs? This notion of players having absurd illusions of being responsible for somebody's business, I mean. I think this is one of those "psycho" aspects of our community: we propose ideas of new features, we propose solutions to existing problems, we propose solutions to possible problems that out ideas could cause, we spend hours writing feedback to devs, we spend hours testing new features and fixes, we discuss financial problems of CCP, we discuss their HR tactics and recruitment and who leaves and who stays, we discuss why new players leave, we discuss why vets leave, we discuss how to prevent those both groups from clashing in some kind of class war but at the same time how to cater to both of them and nurture them and let them grow and... Is it the same in other MMOs? Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2052	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:38:00 - [16] - Quote The MMO crowd always likes something new, you see it all the time as they chase new MMO after MMO and throw money like crazy at hype and promises (Star Citizen anyone?) I think part of the reason is that players like a fresh start. CCP needs to find a way to separate new players for whom ISK is a issue from old players who have insane amounts of disposable ISK and power at their beck and call. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Xuixien The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 1366	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:39:00 - [17] - Quote Licio Caleb wrote: At max level there's no room for lack of skill or effort, you either play well or you'll find yourself in the equivalent of loosing a deck t3 cruiser to t1 frig faster than you can figure out what happened. Except WoW has no appreciable death penalty. Epic Space Cat
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 8472	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:42:00 - [18] - Quote Sentamon wrote: CCP needs to find a way to separate new players for whom ISK is a issue from old players who have insane amounts of disposable ISK and power at their beck and call. This is how Trammel starts, folks. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." Clean Up Local 2014.-á
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2052	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:44:00 - [19] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Sentamon wrote: CCP needs to find a way to separate new players for whom ISK is a issue from old players who have insane amounts of disposable ISK and power at their beck and call. This is how Trammel starts, folks. No this is not trammel, not in the least bit. I guess fools could make a Trammel but I have more hope for CCPs creativity. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Yarda Black The Black Redemption 334	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:49:00 - [20] - Quote A start in which I'd be part of a huge battle would have driven me out in a heartbeat. Someone else's mass war was not what I was looking for. I dont see why that should be everybodies endgame either. Why do you need "endgame" stuff in EVE anyway? My game never changed. I just do different things these days. I dont need CCP deciding what kind of sandcastle I'm aiming for.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 4240	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:50:00 - [21] - Quote What CCP can learn from Blizzard? Don't be like WoW. That's the lesson to be learned. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Prince Kobol 1994	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:52:00 - [22] - Quote You can not compare Eve to any other type of game as there is no game like Eve. What works for other games will most likely fail for Eve. Yes CCP struggle to keep new players, I also believe they are going to struggle to retain existing members soon. One of the biggest problems Eve has in regards to new player retention is that the NPE encourages new players to mine and run missions and we know that PE in Eve is terrible. Many people will throw hate at the goons but seriously those guys know how to get new players to stick with Eve. That is the trick to keep new players, they need to find a good corp asap. Personally I would get a handful of corps, Eve Uni, RvB, some FW corps and actually tell new players of these corps during the NPE. Scream it them that they should join them and I bet a lot more new players stay
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 19975	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:54:00 - [23] - Quote Bloody Slave wrote: If there is anything I would love to see is: CCP learn how to make a video trailer like this, not with Blizzard, of course. On topic, tho, some say that when a player leave EVE to play WoW the QI of both games raise. Love the aesthetic of that trailer, if WiS ever comes to pass it needs to look at least that good. The NPE isn't the best introduction to Eve that a newbie can have, it gives a false impression and directs them down the solo and or PvE paths. Whatever they replace it with needs more emphasis on team work and to make it obvious that PvP, in all of its forms, is very much part of Eve. OOG groups and people such as Eve Uni may be somewhere CCP can pilfer ideas from, Goons certainly seem to have no problem keeping newbies in the game, and neither did TEST. Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine and into the brain, where they ferment. They then migrate to your keyboard via your fingers. That's where shiptoasts come from. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2052	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:59:00 - [24] - Quote You guys give way too much credit to the NPE shaping people. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 5200	Posted - 2014.08.06 07:01:00 - [25] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm not so sure retaining new players is as much of an issue as is retaining old ones. Are you sensing that malaise too? Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 8473	Posted - 2014.08.06 07:02:00 - [26] - Quote Sentamon wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Sentamon wrote: CCP needs to find a way to separate new players for whom ISK is a issue from old players who have insane amounts of disposable ISK and power at their beck and call. This is how Trammel starts, folks. No this is not trammel, not in the least bit. I guess fools could make a Trammel but I have more hope for CCPs creativity. I sure don't. From the company that brought you Barbies in Space, the uneditable POS code, and "you can impersonate yourself", I do not expect them to find a way to segregate the playerbase without severely compromising the game's design philosophy. Don't get me wrong, CCP does a lot of things right, they are excellent at iterative improvements for example. But broad sweeping changes is not one of their strengths, historically. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." Clean Up Local 2014.-á
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 19975	Posted - 2014.08.06 07:07:00 - [27] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm not so sure retaining new players is as much of an issue as is retaining old ones. Are you sensing that malaise too? I know I am, the last month has mostly been skill training online and 1/2 the SoE arc on a newbie alt. Time for me to change my playstyle methinks, my current one is getting pretty bland. Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine and into the brain, where they ferment. They then migrate to your keyboard via your fingers. That's where shiptoasts come from. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 8473	Posted - 2014.08.06 07:23:00 - [28] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm not so sure retaining new players is as much of an issue as is retaining old ones. Are you sensing that malaise too? I know I am, the last month has mostly been skill training online and 1/2 the SoE arc on a newbie alt. Time for me to change my playstyle methinks, my current one is getting pretty bland. I've been considering starting a wardec corp on an alt of mine. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." Clean Up Local 2014.-á
Prince Kobol 1995	Posted - 2014.08.06 07:27:00 - [29] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm not so sure retaining new players is as much of an issue as is retaining old ones. Are you sensing that malaise too? I know I am, the last month has mostly been skill training online and 1/2 the SoE arc on a newbie alt. Time for me to change my playstyle methinks, my current one is getting pretty bland. I've been considering starting a wardec corp on an alt of mine. Tried that a while ago, was super boring. People just either disband their corp, logged off or just sat in station all day. Wouldn't mind but at most there were only 5 of us and we were targeting corps/alliances of 50+ hoping to get a few fights.
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 263	Posted - 2014.08.06 07:27:00 - [30] - Quote Give players massive shoulder pads and boots, make the spaceships colorful and give them big shoulder pads too, put a chick with big **** on the box cover, and introduce a furry race. To win mass appeal you need to design things for idiots with no taste. In seriousness... mining and missions are boring, and this is where most new players spend their time. The screen also ends up plastered with a mess of unattractive UI... overview list taking up 1/5 of the screen space, local taking up another 1/6 if you want to see everyone in system, dscan window open, people and places bookmark window open... drone window... the screen is getting pretty cluttered and all are necessary. Haven't seen attempts at streamlining the UI since the route list was redone. Haven't seen any attempt at making mining and missions more interesting since I started playing. It it weren't for exploration I would have quit long ago. Incursions were a decent attempt at making missions interesting, actually. More competition between players there would be nice. And maybe more variety in sites. Everything has been reduced to shiny pirate battleship fleets with a kill order, which gets boring when you don't have another fleet wanting to compete with you. Some sites for cruisers only would be nice. Some for BCs and below. 5-6 player sites. etc.

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