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Ren Kavik Gallente Embassy 1	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:57:00 - [301] - Quote I think this type wh well be the end of all residents in lower class wh. The payout there isnt great but itleast you had some sort of relative safety by crashing wh. Now that the safety is gone without extra reward whats the point of living there. Thx for killing the residents in lower class wh. I gues wh are only for passing through not actually doing anything there.
thebringer Raptor Navy Dominatus Atrum Mortis 8	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:26:00 - [302] - Quote So, no more ratting in low class wormholes when one of these unclosable holes open... Sounds great! obviously no sarcasm So what exactly are they supposed to do for income?
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 147	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:48:00 - [303] - Quote Have anyone in this thread thought about the potential harm just a tiny corp can bring to a huge corps farming fleet by bringing a few bombers through such a wormhole? Oh and they are rather easy to recognize. Listed almost all of them on my blog (a sneak ad just there :P) ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Lenroc Elisav Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 28	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:40:00 - [304] - Quote Ghaustyl Kathix wrote: Lenroc Elisav wrote: Your innocent naivety is sweet but we are not talking about a dozen we are talking about a hundred or more assault frigates . Fozzie just about confirmed when he was interviewed in Down the Pipe episode 38 (at about 44:30) that it'd be around about 30 frigates or so. That's positive news, guess I have to stand corrected . Traiori wrote: Ghaustyl Kathix wrote: Lenroc Elisav wrote: Your innocent naivety is sweet but we are not talking about a dozen we are talking about a hundred or more assault frigates . Fozzie just about confirmed when he was interviewed in Down the Pipe episode 38 (at about 44:30) that it'd be around about 30 frigates or so. My immediate thought is that this is plenty easy enough to crash. It just takes a few more pilots. Oh well. Most alts can fly frigates anyway. I think he meant only 30 can jump at aprox the same time then the hole needs to regen mass. If they still plan to keep the un-collapsible feature of the W-hole.
Maduin Shi Perkone Caldari State 27	Posted - 2014.08.21 05:31:00 - [305] - Quote As a lower-class C2 WH resident and small corp director I wholeheartedly agree with Stacy's excellent post a few pages back. The most concerning thing about having more random wormholes along with the "mass spew" change to spawning off wormhole connections is that it takes away much of the ability for newer players and small corps to exercise control over their w-space "home". Probably the best thing about wormholes on TQ today is that it is a player-influenced dynamic environment and not much SP or isk investment is needed to get a rolling BS fit and start exercising control over where your w-space home connects to. Most of the time if there's only say, 1-3 connections you can roll one or two dangerous connections or all of them and go mining/ratting/PI, roam your k-space connection or look for targets in a safer chain of your choosing. Having a reasonable risk and time consumed associated with rolling holes is fundamental to w-space life. With Hyperion how many more of these random wormholes are we going to see? Is it every day we'll have 4+ connections? If its going to be many more connections and much more difficult/risky to roll them then Hyperion is for sure going to kill lower class w-space for new players and small corps. Because most of the time you won't have time or manpower or disposable isk to roll so many additional connections. With the frigate holes we cannot even do anything to get rid of them if we don't want them, and that is symptomatic of Hyperion in my opinion. Its about taking away player control over the dynamic w-space environment. Unless, of course, you are a large C5/6 entity in which case its business as usual just takes longer / more annoying to roll everything and back to cap escalations or killing other dudes' cap escalation fleets. But for small corps we're going to lose (completely or mostly) control over our home system and will be at the mercy of whoever is connected to us. I'm not happy with the idea of logging in, seeing there's 4-5 connections with multiple large PvP alliances and nothing to be done about it but logoff at the POS. I'm not paying subscription money to spin ships in my POS shield. I certainly hope we see a roll-back of the changes that take player control away from their w-space environment. W-space systems and connections should be player-controlled and if anything CCP should be making it easier not harder to exercise hole control, but with one caveat. Just make it so that there is always at least one wormhole connection open with a spawned k162 to every w-space system. Make it impossible to seal yourself off completely from New Eden. But let players choose their connections. Don't have the game dictate it to them. This way players can balance and control their own risk profile and live with the consequences.
Judith Baker School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.08.21 18:09:00 - [306] - Quote More useless sigs clogging up my scan results? Cool.
Valenthe de Celine Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2014.08.21 19:15:00 - [307] - Quote thebringer wrote: So, no more ratting in low class wormholes when one of these unclosable holes open... Sounds great! obviously no sarcasm So what exactly are they supposed to do for income? You know, a comment like this and I really wonder how much site running in a C1 you've done before. C1s are some of the worst, most boring WHs to try to live in because there is so little of anything in them. You might see 1 or 2 combat anomalies a day if you're really lucky. You are more likely to see an ore anomaly instead. I'm really sad to say it, but C3s weren't much better. I had better odds of a gas site appearing than for getting a combat site to spawn. This is why most of my corp left for lowsec instead of living in a C3, there wasn't enough to do. I think CCP, with this new frigate fleet pew pew have fun with PVP unclosable hole is trying to lure those lowsec lovers back in into WH space for the potential at lower level pew.
Rahelis Tris Legomenon 99	Posted - 2014.08.25 08:08:00 - [308] - Quote Easy to see that the frig holes where ONLY made to get bombers on grid.
Xela Kcaneoh The Pirates Of Orion 12	Posted - 2014.08.26 12:34:00 - [309] - Quote Who came up with the names of these new wormholes? I now have two new random connections: Wormhole Q003 and Wormhole L005. That's just dumb, you guys. -10 points for lack of creativity EDIT: I wish I could subtract dollars. Can you add that feature with your next disaster? Thank you.
Xasiku The Senate and People of Rome Northern Associates. 0	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:36:00 - [310] - Quote I'm curious what it is ccp has against null space industry corps? Just what we need, more neuts interrupting or blowing up our mining ops. Not everyone lives to be a d*ck to our fellow man. Getting more than a little tired of being on the short end of the.
Rock Worker Asylum Of Shadows 4	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:12:00 - [311] - Quote Message to CCP: The random wormhole piece is probably the only thing I've read that counters the, ' we don't want to kill the Wormhole community' statements. This supposes that everyone in a Wormhole enjoys and is here for PVP. I would submit that with the recent changes (the last couple of patches) that PVP and not industry or production is by far gaining the largest amount of code time. I would also state that it is apparent that CCP (in my humble opinion) under values the small corporations input to the Eve community. Increasing the small gangs ability to kill wormhole inhabitants and preventing small groups of players who have formed a corporation to defend such attacks by manually collapsing a wormhole, only proves to remove groups like my corp from wormhole space due to the losses I envision will soon plague my friends and I. I would respectfully argue, that though you mention you'd not like to see the wormhole community killed, your coding and releases contradict your statements. The large alliance will move into wormhole space similar to Faction Warfare, High Sec POCO assimilation, and others... Rock
Red Teufel Hard Knocks Inc. 387	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:40:00 - [312] - Quote ccp isn't going to get rid of it over night...I shall make the best of it then. Hi Ho Frig Fleets awayyyyy!
Aquila Sagitta Blue-Fire 429	Posted - 2014.08.27 01:17:00 - [313] - Quote Please make it possible to tell these frig whs apart from normal whs on the k162 side. You could make them really small graphically like the size of crit whs. Blue-Fire Best Fire
Andiedeath Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance 271	Posted - 2014.08.27 01:25:00 - [314] - Quote Aquila Sagitta wrote: Please make it possible to tell these frig whs apart from normal whs on the k162 side. You could make them really small graphically like the size of crit whs. +1 Director Swift Angels Alliance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3247397#post3247397 INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
Gem Hadah Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.08.27 02:31:00 - [315] - Quote The "E004" WH is a frigate sized one and so far has a mass of at least 500m. Apparently CCP Fozzie was incorrect stating that these could be closed with 30 frigates.
Styphon the Black Dragon-Wright 0	Posted - 2014.08.27 02:55:00 - [316] - Quote It's the point of moving out into wormhole space for most players and player corps and attempt to "get away" from the rest of the world and isolate? I go into wormhole space all the time and I like not having anyone around.
Admiral Synergy Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire 3	Posted - 2014.08.27 03:37:00 - [317] - Quote Repost from the other thread. This is insane. Four wormholes I jump into in a row.... First one 5 wormholes (3 are frig only), 2 statics Second one 6 wormholes (3 are frig only), 2 statics, 1 random Third one 5 wormholes (2 are frig only), 2 statics, 1 random Fourth one 4 wormholes (3 are frig only), 1 static So I see a Buzzard on scan.... Let's follow him to see where he goes..... Oh great, he jumped through one of the frigate holes... what was the odds of that? Seeing as 70% of the holes I'm finding are frigate only... I'll go with 70%. The people who made these changes have no idea what it's like in wormhole space. The ideal of having a lone proteus or a solo tengu off exploring in search of killing / looting / exploring is long gone, when every 2nd wormhole you cannot jump through. So let's see, as a solo pilot.... You cannot... a) Run sites, because every hole has on average 5 wormholes to it now. b) Hunt effectively, every scanner frigate you're trying to hunt will ultimately go through one of these frigate only holes. You can't even try and grab him on the hole because yay a blob of frigates might come grab you and you can't do anything to them. So your option of running solo is to scan and scan and scan some more in your own cloaky frigate..... Or run around in a stealth bomber and shoot ventures. Oh yeah, every K162 I see is a deathtrap to any non frigate ship. Let's see, you've scanned down a hole in your proteus / tengu / whatever you're in..... You warp to the hole at 10km. Oooh a K162.... But it doesn't tell you if it's a frigate only hole or regular. So you uncloak next to it and try to jump. Only you can't. And some dude sitting in an astero uncloaks and points you and a bunch of frigates come through that were on the other side. EVERY K162 IS A POTENTIAL DEATHTRAP. Which means, to non frigates, ALL frigate sized holes and ALL K162's are now offlimits. These frigate wormholes serve absolutely no purpose. Originally I thought hey, maybe one will spawn once every few weeks or something in the hole and it'd make things interesting for a day. But they are everywhere. Not only that, but it does not encourage small warfare, whichever corp has the most frigates wins. If you do find anything inside it that's ratting or doing something stupid in a battlecruiser or a battleship, unless you have a bunch of corpmates on, it's off limits. And what about all those c4 pilots who would take out 4 RR domi's to run sites. Unless you have 30+ members in assault frigates, completely off limits. As someone who has lived in wormhole space for the past 10 months straight and who has spent at least half of that time solo hunting, these frigate wormholes are a plague in wormhole space. Anyone who actually lives in wormhole space knows that this is the case. These ideas came about from all the nullseccers, lowseccers and carebears that all think a nifty new idea is good. If you want to fly around in frigates 24/7, go back to lowsec. Solo wormhole hunting has just died. And that about sums up wormhole space now. Cheers CCP
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 1575	Posted - 2014.08.27 03:40:00 - [318] - Quote Hey, here's ssome feedback that the ISD in their finite wisdom won't lock down: Too many frigate wormholes. I mean, OK, Fozzie decided that we needed more transient wormholes and said he would bump up the numbers. But instead he has leaned heavily on the "spawn wormhole"lever and put it at 11. Seriously, every second wormhole in wormhole space is a bloody frigate wormhole. That, dear Fozzie, is a wee bit much. Can you dial the spawn rate down so they are at most...unusual, and not a piece of furniture found in every hole? Secondly, can you make them graphically distinct? K162's are now anonymous death traps for T3's, who approach a K162 not knowing if they can jump through and face annihilation from 30 man blobs lurking on the other side. It's like having star gates in k-space which only frigates can jump through (ie; fighting on a plex gate to a Small or Novice in FW). Except EVERY stargate you approach could not let you through. I think the best inspiration for a way to make them graphically distinct could be found here. J's before K's. Sudden Buggery is recruiting w-nerds and w-noobs. Mail your resume in today! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Apex Bex Zero Gravity Exploration 24	Posted - 2014.08.27 04:07:00 - [319] - Quote I'm used to having a certain degree of paranoia when it comes to doing... pretty much anything in W-Space. That's the risk you take. You mitigate that risk through varying methods of hole control, timer management and over the top D-Scan button abuse. Well, you can now throw that **** out the window. It's new holes a go-go. Good luck getting anything done without being expressed back to HiSec. Dumbest. Change. Ever.
Winthorp 2640	Posted - 2014.08.27 04:11:00 - [320] - Quote I am hearing reports of WH's flooded with these frig WH's but people probably need to calm down a little and remember this, these are time based Wh's and they all got spawned at the exact same time after DT so i don't think we can have a clear picture of if there is too many untill they start respawning and rescanned and timers start to spread out. What could help is if CCP could give US some feedback on the amount of frig WH's there is in the pool and if there is too many that have been spawned in one region over another region?
Andiedeath Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance 271	Posted - 2014.08.27 04:17:00 - [321] - Quote Admiral Synergy wrote: Repost from the other thread. This is insane. ..... Cheers CCP What he said! I love the new frigate wormholes but this spawn rate is just broken... I'm guessing it wasnt intended?? Director Swift Angels Alliance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3247397#post3247397 INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
Winthorp 2640	Posted - 2014.08.27 04:25:00 - [322] - Quote Andiedeath wrote: Admiral Synergy wrote: Repost from the other thread. This is insane. ..... Cheers CCP What he said! I love the new frigate wormholes but this spawn rate is just broken... I'm guessing it wasnt intended?? Well considering they all got spawned at exactly the same time and all of the frigate Wh's are time based then maybe not, unless CCP tells us how many there is of them we will have to wait a few days until the timers spread out from timed death of Wh's and someone rescanning them thus activating new timers that will spread this out.
Andiedeath Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance 271	Posted - 2014.08.27 05:05:00 - [323] - Quote Winthorp wrote: Andiedeath wrote: Admiral Synergy wrote: Repost from the other thread. This is insane. ..... Cheers CCP What he said! I love the new frigate wormholes but this spawn rate is just broken... I'm guessing it wasnt intended?? Well considering they all got spawned at exactly the same time and all of the frigate Wh's are time based then maybe not, unless CCP tells us how many there is of them we will have to wait a few days until the timers spread out from timed death of Wh's and someone rescanning them thus activating new timers that will spread this out. Here's hoping. ;) Director Swift Angels Alliance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3247397#post3247397 INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 1575	Posted - 2014.08.27 05:30:00 - [324] - Quote Winthorp wrote: I am hearing reports of WH's flooded with these frig WH's but people probably need to calm down a little and remember this, these are time based Wh's and they all got spawned at the exact same time after DT so i don't think we can have a clear picture of if there is too many untill they start respawning and rescanned and timers start to spread out. What could help is if CCP could give US some feedback on the amount of frig WH's there is in the pool and if there is too many that have been spawned in one region over another region? This is a stupid theory. Point, the first. If this was the case, when Apocrpyha first came out we would have had 4 of any of Z971 / R943 / X702 per system in K-space because "all the wormholes spawned at the same time". In case you weren't even subbed back then or didn't know how to probe, old-school style, this was not the case. Point, the second. OK, if you accept that there's a finite number of wormholes, and the problem is that they all got spawned at the same time...actually, that's dumb, so forget that. Which means it doesn't really matter if they got spawned at the same time. CCP won't say, but Greyscale's last comments on the matter suggest that there's a chance table mechanism which determines a) a system is due a signature and if it gets spawned b) what type of signature it is This mechanism would scuttle your logic (which already fails, see above) because, to whit, a) why did all the frig holes spawn at the same time after downtime if their chance of spawning should ideally have been flat ver a 23.75 hour period starting from the launch of Gheyperion on the 26th? b) why would they all be in the same region of j-space? c) like, seriously, they aren't even in the same region of j-space d) Given no one's going to ever close thesehorrible monstrosities using a ship they will all respawn at the same time e) their respawn, being more or less simultaneous, brings us back to point a), above, and still hasn't answered it except that now there might be +/- 30 mins spread f) why should a +/- 30 minute spread in timers reduce the number of frigate wormholes or the number of transient wormholes, aka the probability density of wormholes of any kind in j-space won't change from a lack of synchronicity in their spawning, the reasons for which there's clearly no explicable mechanism Logic thus dictates that CCP Fozzie got hold of the pooch and did illegal things to it. Plox fix ASAP so I can bother with j-space again. J's before K's. Sudden Buggery is recruiting w-nerds and w-noobs. Mail your resume in today! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 1575	Posted - 2014.08.27 05:38:00 - [325] - Quote Oh, oh! More feedback. Dear CCP, Thankyou for adding a second static to C4 wormholes. It is so much useful, very wow. However, given there are 2 frigate sized wormholes per wormhole everywhere that Winthorp is not, why do I need statics in my wormhole now at all? Given i am drowning in transient wormholes, every system in j-space now has at least 3 to 7 connections. This is SUPER AWESOME, because even in k-space you don't have so many connections to camp, on average! I mean, it would be ULTRA SUPER AWESOME if every system in k-space had SEVEN star gates, but some of them were super secret special stargates only frigates could jump through, but you could never tell which ones. Then, it would be even more MEGA ULTRA SUPER AWESOME if you couldn't tell which star gates were frigate sized until you try to jump through them. That would be great. please change it. Even better and AMAZEBALLS MEGA ULTRA SUPER AWESOME would be to have stargates disappear at random, and you had to probe them down, and they went to random systems. But most of all, the cherry on top of the COOL AMAZEBALLS MEGA ULTRA SUPER AWESOME ideas would be to make everything randomly spawn a random distance off a random mystery stargate if it actually can jump through, but also remove local, and stations, and stop people bringing capitals in anywhere. But make sure Goons owns the space. Then you'll totally have fixed wormholes. 1000 percent. J's before K's. Sudden Buggery is recruiting w-nerds and w-noobs. Mail your resume in today! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Kynric Sky Fighters 157	Posted - 2014.08.27 05:51:00 - [326] - Quote I love having more connectivity but this implementation seems a bit excessive.
Lodestone Toyee Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire 0	Posted - 2014.08.27 05:58:00 - [327] - Quote These frigate only wormhole seem like a serious nerf to small wormhole corps especially. Assume one of these wormholes opens up in your home system and a big corp with 50+ active members decides to roll a massive AF gang into you. Since you are heavily outnumbered, you are forced to use bigger ships (T3s, logi, cruiser hulls, and up) to defend your wormhole. You may be able to kill one or two frigates, but the rest of the gang can just sit on the frig-only hole and jump back through at the first sign of danger. Since you have fewer members, you CANNOT follow in your bigger ships. Its like fighting people on a highsec hole. There is no way to win, and you cannot roll the hole to cause the fight to end. The end result of this is that a corp with more members than you will force all your corp to stay POSed up until the hole closes on its own. Now, to add insult to injury, It turns out that with the current spawn rate of frig-only holes, you will have one of these un-closable holes at almost every point in the day, and often will have more than one at the same time connected to your home system. This means that the above situation will likely happen several times a week. Combine this with the aforementioned affects on solo hunters, and you will be forced to find a big wormhole corp to have fun, let alone make isk, in wormholes.
Winthorp 2640	Posted - 2014.08.27 06:10:00 - [328] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Point, the second. OK, if you accept that there's a finite number of wormholes, and the problem is that they all got spawned at the same time...actually, that's dumb, so forget that. Which means it doesn't really matter if they got spawned at the same time. CCP won't say, but Greyscale's last comments on the matter suggest that there's a chance table mechanism which determines a) a system is due a signature and if it gets spawned b) what type of signature it is Assuming that Greyscale did say that and it is correct it still doesn't remove the remove the point about the pool of Wh's that can be in existence and that is you assuming now. I was not around when the first WH's were born so will take your word on that. I am still not convinced that the frig WH's didn't just get auto spawned after patch, and until CCP comes out with anything but i guess i will still have to think the same way. You also have to remember that those at CCP around working on code when they first released WH's are not still there. You make a lot of points but you ignore the fact that when these frig WH's expire due to time they WILL respawn ready to be scanned down, they will not be all scanned at the same time and thus they will all have timers that will activate at much more diverse timers/times.
Nancy Wayke Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.08.27 07:02:00 - [329] - Quote I don't think we've seen a wormhole with system with fewer than 3 links yet, with the majority 4+ The frigate wormholes are T3 deathtraps - we'll have to do all scouting in covert ops frogs if this persists, and the number of fights is likely to go down as a result
dirtydebbs the wreking crew 13	Posted - 2014.08.27 07:13:00 - [330] - Quote Not sure how the spawn rate was set but either as it's patch day and itl settle the spawn rate on there seems way to high out of 16 wh in out chain last night over half of them had these whs, Also could you change the graphics or as a hint in the description what they are to stop confusion It is funny watching people coming up the chain and then getting confused as to why there badger can't jump mind :)

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