You're behind the times. Check that thread; they're adding a timer.

With the new wormhole spawning mechanic (not showing up until you jump) i think rage rolling will still be very easy and the risks will still be minimal.

For capitals you will simply need to warp to the closest planet and back. The orca can just be fitted with a MWD and other propulsion upgrades to burn back to the hole.

The biggest danger will be in rolling an old hole.

When is the next DTP podcast being recorded? Look forward to hearing you talk about this.

Have you flown a capital ship (esp since the changes to warp)? It is one click to warp to the nearest planet, so it is simple. Simple to initiate doesn't get you to the planet and back. Anything inside 54km makes you 'simply pointable' by a proteus. The only ship that can 'simply web' you at that range is a loki. They have the same lock time, the point is instant and the web helps,but isn't instant. So... getting 'simply pointed' is what will simply happen when you 'simply warp to the closest planet''. Anything that can't cloak/get into warp before proteus point 'simply doesn't go anywhere'.

The mwd orca is a different issue. It may actually have a chance. If I can get up to speed it might be able to just coast into the wh and jump back. Things that will prevent that - bumping it out of alignment before it gets up to speed, webs, scrams. I would bet on getting up to speed and coasting into jump range to be a slim chance.

I agree that there should be a distinction in these mechanics based on ship roles. I especially believe that frigates and recons should get the most distance.

The safety of battleships and dreads/carriers quite beside the point, and changes should not be made to them. (Maybe a little for battleships).

Incursions into wormhole space should be possible. Starting with small ships and working upwards... This can only happen if recons and frigates have some advantages.

Well Sir you definitely haven't , done anything with a small group of guys in a wormhole
or you must be used to flying in a large blob. Must be nice. With 5 or 6 guys online at a time
It really makes it hard to do anything. if you cant "secure' your static. Its extremely risky to do
when you have to do it under duress, racing, no holes, Hard knocks or any other **** fleet
to you Static or connector to close it before they get enough people to burn down your cap and battleship your
attempting to roll the hole, so you don't have to spin in your POS for the day. Even with locking people out
anytime of a Day there could be a **** fleet **** rolling waiting to jump in on you.
FYI when this happens we don't have a cyno to call in supers and welp an attacker, we also
don't have a week of TIMERS to Amass Titains Suppers and 900 people. we have 1 timer and
that is a POS timer. Challenges? seriously? Try adding content not retardation, how bout fixing up
more POS management, or maybe the bookmarks

I'll reiterate the criticism I already posted in the other thread.

Currently, a significant part of the danger in moving many kinds of ships in wspace is that when you jump, you may not be able to immediately cloak. 2000m is the "decloak distance", the distance at which an object prevents cloaking. Wormholes are objects. Usually you land further from the wormhole than 2000m, but often (~20%?), you land closer. If you land closer, there is the opportunity for an enemy to lock you before you can get far enough to cloak.

The risk of not being able to cloak is particularly significant for ships with covert ops cloaks, because once cloaked they can warp. It is nearly impossible to stop one of them without a bubble. Even with a bubble, because they can move at full speed they will usually escape. (And of course T3 scouts will be interdiction nullified.)

Assuming I am correctly understanding the numbers in the dev blog, after Hyperion no ship that jumps a wormhole will ever land closer than 2000m from the wormhole. In fact, even the lightest ships always land at least 3500m from it. Thus, all covert ships will be essentially uncatchable by anything but a bubble. Indeed, all ships will be far enough from the wormhole that they no longer need to worry about the geometry when they warp, because their align cannot take them within decloak distance.

This will affect my play, because currently I do try to catch scouts on wormholes in a Manticore from time to time. I know the chance is not large; in fact I have not actually caught one yet who was paying attention. Still, the chance is there. And I did catch a blockade runner once who got screwed by the RNG. If I knew there was zero chance that covert ships would ever be within the decloak distance, I would not bother to hunt them.

This change would make hunting in a cloaky ship less risky, but I don't agree with that either. Every time I come out 1600m from the wormhole is a tiny scare, and each time I survive it is a tiny victory.

What are the chances of a new wormhole spawning on grind with a hostile proteus?

If it's a new hole, you will have plenty of time to get into warp and unless the hostiles are really quick in scanning the new wormhole and putting a HIC on it, you will easily be able to jump home.

Not to be derogatory, but for anyone involved in wormhole pvp, jumping back through a hole is understood to not make you invulnerable. A small gang of even remotely competent pvpers will place cloaked dictors/hictors on either side and just follow someone through with their main force if they try to disengage by jumping through. This is no different than the games played on gate camps. A quick look at a corp's setup, and you can get a pretty good idea of whether or not they will try to close your connection with them and you can lay a trap. This change just complicates in space refitting for caps and adds a minor irritation for anyone rolling a hole for content. It also does not meaningfully increase risk.

Mass, speed and inertia entering a wormhole should reflect on exiting the wormhole.

Hi fozzie.
I think with this recent dev blog you got 5/6 feature that are amazing (at least imho).

So lets talk about that 1/6, the disturbing feature that makes orcas spawn 11k and caps spawn up to 20k away from the wormhole after they jump.

I am CEO of a corp that isnt large (by wormhole standards) so I often find myself and my corpmates outnumbered which means we often have to use mass to our advantage to limit how much the enemy can bring against us. One of the prominent ways many corporations do that is by using caps and other heavy mass ships and jumping them both ways in quick succession. This is a common strategy that can decide the course of a fight.

Now before I continue I want to first address your statement of why you made such a change. You claim it is to make rage rolling more difficult and dangerous, however larger corporations such as Hard Knocks, Lazerhawks, SSC, ect. Have no issue placing caps in danger because they have the membership base to back up those capitals if they are cought.

Smaller groups such as mine (while we havent had the chance to use this tactic yet) relish in the prospect of throwing dreds at larger entities ON THE CHANCE that we can limit the assets they bring using combat rolling capital. With this change such an action would be suicide for the cap and force us to choose to engage in an unfortunate one sided slaughter to supirior numbers or request an arranged fight where many of their members will lose on content or they will all together decide we would be worth their time. If non of those options are available we are left with no choice but to stay in our pos which we hate doing.

I ask that you reconsider this feature completely. No iteration of a change that reduces the value of tactics and quick responces while rewarding higher membership count is beneficial to the life style wormholers have enjoyed in the past years.

I hope I have made an appealing case and that you would think on this heavily.

Otherwise this expansion is fantastic.

EXCEPT: I believe the luxury of spawning 100km away from a wormhole/gate should be reserved for specific ROLES, like recon, cloaky haulers, etc, who have heavily invested SP and ISK into those roles, (specifically navigation, astrometrics, recon, cloaking, etc).

Large / PVP cops are indifferent / like them

If these changes go ahead, then rage rolling for smaller groups will die because of the double whammy of rolling being more dangerous and tedious, plus the massive disadvantage of the invading party compared to the defender when deploying caps, because of the issue of spawning out of refit and capacitor feeding range.

It's not so bad for large alliances like NoHo, we'll probably change tactics, with a specialised rolling cap and defensive fit BS for rage rolling, and for the fight itself go with a 50+ T3 and Guardian blob to counter the inevitable cap escalation by the defenders. I think it'll pan out like this - because only large alliances will be able to field a viable offensive T3 blob, farming will get safer overall, so the number of bears will go up. We'll actually benefit, as the K162 not spawning until jumping in will give an edge to the attacker with a 50 man blob formed up.

For people not able to field a 50 man blob, that leaves opportunistic kills of rolling crews (now easier, but the caps will be ****-fit) and the good old log in trap. In summary, great for big groups, and a massive kick in the spuds for those C5/C6 PVPers who can field 15-30 pilots.

Please CCP, take our concerns on board - whilst well intentioned, the mass-based spawn is going to hurt the up and coming and intermediate sized groups the most, and for the bigger groups make life more boring and less varied. The big dogs will just get bigger, smaller entities be forced to congeal together (I use this term deliberately) and we'll end up becoming mini-Goons in our little wormhole ghetto.

I'm not against change, but I can't see how this will improve anything?

Make the spawn thingy and remove the polarization.

+1

Shake the Ant Farm!

I think we'll adapt. Here's why:

WH's are hard. That's why we conquered them. They challenged us, so we made them work for us.

Do these changes have an effect on WH life? of course they do. Will there be a mass exodus from WHs because of the changes? I doubt it. Just as before, we will figure out new ways to roll, and will probably figure out new ways to counter roll.

In fact the only thing I see most effected is solo expo and small cap expo fleets. And that has been an op ISK making venture in the game for a long time (we'd all admit that).

I say bring it on the changes. We will adapt.