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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Archetype 66
Epsilon Lyr Mordus Angels
159
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Posted - 2014.08.24 12:42:00 -
[151] - Quote
Ok, i just understood. So every lvl4 agent will propose the five kind of Burner mission ? Nice. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
678
|
Posted - 2014.08.24 16:06:00 -
[152] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Lugalzagezi666 wrote:Tragot Gomndor wrote: this is stupid, i am outta here
but afaik there is a small chance of faction drop . I can confirm, I once had a faction module dropped. The problems with those missions I see: - a typical solo lvl4 mission runner is risk averse and will not have the skills to do them solo, so there is nothing to learn for them - although they foster group play (like the Dagan mission), which is good and will work also for less skilled people, ... burying them in the lvl4 mission "profession" and standing requirements, will exclude the newbies. - the shiny ship vs. reward is not much out of skew compared to the standard lvl4s ... but the likelihood of a loss is much higher, hence putting the risk/reward out of balance for solo play I don't have a good proposal to fix this ... as I clearly see that the lvl4 thing is necessary to protect the mission from being farmed by multiboxers all the day.
Some will try them and fail. They've had a good laugh and know thereafter why they don't meddle their hands in PVP, and thus stick to what they can do best: PVE. Working as intended. Others will try them and get encouraged to try them with friends, thus group activity and social interaction (maybe even with strangers) is created. Working as intended. Other people, who for instance already have posted their mastering of the mission here, will run them solo on TQ and will have a good money for their mission time if they get lucky and receive these missions from several agents in high frequency. This requires for them to fly around and visit several L4 agents, thus getting them in space. This might also lead again to a concentration of mission runners in very L4 agent heavy areas, which in turn attracts gankers and other scum. Working as intended.
Personally, since these missions require a group and specifically fitted ships for these NPCs, will not run these missions. For one, I don't have frigs available and will not JF them in to my mission paradises, and secondly I don't want to waste time waiting for corp fellows to show up. So in the end, each their own. Even if people think they have to farm the hell out of these missions. |
Archetype 66
Epsilon Lyr Mordus Angels
159
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Posted - 2014.08.24 18:00:00 -
[153] - Quote
I just figured a T2/T1 fitted Daredevil to solo the Guristas Bruner after having destroyed a handfull of Hawk/Harpy/Jaguar against it. No links, no expansive module but T2 rigs, no implant.
Need to OH mwd to put a scram on it and an overloaded T1 harderner all the fight to works ^^
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Snopzet
Inglourious Squirrels That Escalated Quickly.
9
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Posted - 2014.08.24 19:01:00 -
[154] - Quote
I just tried all five missions and as someone who has very few experience in solo frig pvp the only thing I learned from them is: have a friend in a Kitsune or dual-box, so I can "solo" them all in a Harpy . I tried the Blood Raider mission two times in a Harpy with different fits. But even with 300 dps I can't break the tank because of "PVE-fit"... if I try to get a web and scram on it, I can't survive long enough to kill the burner. To be honest, as soon as Hyperion goes online, I won't start flying lvl4 missions just for those. If I like to trash my frigs, I go to a factional warfare system and have some fun there.
Basically I like the idea to teach ppl how frig pvp works but this is just the wrong approach, since they are too hard for newbies. Giving mission runners some new variations is cool too, but many will wait for detailed guides on eve-survival and then it's just a plain stupid mission as any other.Those who try the new burner missions on their own will fail for sure and after losing two more or less expensive frigs, they will give up on them and never accept them again, unless they can find a good guide which makes the risk-reward-ratio acceptable.
So, ppl who have the skills and knowledge to fly the burner missions are experienced frig pvp pilots and guess what, I doubt they will ever touch a lvl4 mission Even if CCP would add a new agent type, which gives out only burner missions, they are still not interesting for them, since they are too predictable.
If I couldn't dual-box I would probably skip most of the burner missions too, because I can fly T2 Caldari frigs only and I'm not willing to spend ISK for one or even two pirate faction frigs, just for these missions (leave aside the high risk of losing the ship). But this is just my personal view.
What about a test server within TQ? A "virtual reality" zone? No rewards, no risk. You can select a ship, fit it to your needs and choose a NPC opponent (like the burner NPCs) you wish to fight against. So you can train yourself or test fittings. This VR-zone could be then expanded for fleet tests. You can pick multiple different NPC opponents with custom or predefined fittings and a smart AI. So you can test fleet compositions or train your corp members. Something like an alliance tournament vs NPCs and without any risk (remember: you don't get any reward for that of course). It's a huge feature which is more like a "nice to have", but it would be better then the current burner missions :V |
Nomistrav
Aliastra Gallente Federation
266
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Posted - 2014.08.24 19:40:00 -
[155] - Quote
Just tried out the Serpentis burner (my preferred enemy) using:
Ishkur
Lows: Small Ancillary Armor Repairer Thermic Armor Hardener II Kinetic Armor Hardener II Damage Control II
Med: Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Highs: 3x 125mm Railgun II (Javelin S)
Rigs: Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Nanobot Accelerator I
Drones: 9x Warrior II
So, my general strategy here was to use the Ishkur's natural resistances against the railguns the Serpentis burner uses in tandem with a solid active tank. Javelin ammo in the railguns gave them a 10km range (probably could have used a bit more in retrospect) and a decent tracking speed bonus. Warrior drones would apply some explosive damage to hit the burner's assumed resistance hole in the armor.
Warped in, landed 3km away from the burner and immediately applied scrambler/web. He burns out of range like it didn't even matter (I'm not even convinced they affected him at all) and immediately starts orbiting at 11km, applies webs/scrams onto me well out of range of my own. I can't dictate range at this point but I figure it's alright as I can fall back on my own rails, drones, and active tank. Start applying damage, burner ignores the drones, I break his shields and get him into armor pretty quick. I'm doing small bursts of damage, bringing him down to 95/96% armor but he just reps right through it. Obviously, I don't have enough DPS to break his tank, so I focus on my own defense to see how well it works.
He's slugging away through my armor despite having extremely high resists and I'm having to repair the damage - which is difficult as I'm having to manage cap. I'm surviving until I have to reload the nanite repair paste in the repairer, at which point the long reload leads to my inevitable death.
That being said, I wanted to experiment more with this, but considering that my fit and all relative skills maxed couldn't even make do in -any- category (dictation of range, damage application, or survivability) I'm not going to even bother trying with these any further. Players are easier to kill and a hell of a lot more rewarding at that. The only good thing out of all this is I didn't waste ISK on Tranquility trying this. |
Clark Ostus
GOB Holdings Game Of Bears
4
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Posted - 2014.08.24 21:16:00 -
[156] - Quote
There is one more thing I would like to ask about these, since they are essentially commander frig |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
589
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Posted - 2014.08.24 22:01:00 -
[157] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We've reproduced the Guristas speedup when he switches targets. Still working on a solution. Dangeresque Too wrote: Also one question I had, the Blood rat, he nuets, are those nuets overpowered/oversized for what would be possible to fit on a frig (eh-hem *cough* sansha incursion frigs) or are they infact small sized nuets?
It has the drain over time amount of a Cruor using two small deadspace NOS and a talisman implant set. The rate of fire of its neuts/nos (we don't have a NOS effect for NPCs and the result is the same in this case) is actually significantly slower than it would be from our hypothetical Cruor, but that helps make it a bit easier to play around.
which is imo an insanely gimmicky fit designed to be good at frigate 1v1. And yet if the NPC were vulnerable to ewar like a player ship I could come up with an equally gimmicky fit to kill it. I mean if it cant use its nos, well the tank crumbles. if it wants to use a cap booster then it sacrifices one of the fairly important mids. and well, either way it probably won't be doing very much dps. dual faction web AB daredevil is one of the first ships to come to mind. but depending on the backend, well I wouldn't even try a dual web AB daredevil against an npc shiny cruor. I would probably easily kite it's nos and damage (at least from reported ranges), but I would never break its tank, where in PVP the thing wouldn't have any tank without the talisman nos going.
these are pretty much the first mods I thought to fit, and well I took a step down on a few for fitting reasons, and I skipped on the deadspace EANM due to cost. Could probably make a better version playing around with the rigs and implants, but well I think it shows the point fairly well.
image of fit with eos links: http://i.imgur.com/xeUAGI0.jpg [Cruor, 1v1 lulz] Corpii B-Type Small Armor Repairer Corpii B-Type Small Armor Repairer Damage Control II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Dark Blood Warp Scrambler Dark Blood Stasis Webifier Gistii A-Type 1MN Microwarpdrive
Corpii A-Type Small Nosferatu Corpii A-Type Small Nosferatu Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II Small Nanobot Accelerator II Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Hobgoblin II x1
You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
589
|
Posted - 2014.08.24 22:45:00 -
[158] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Lugalzagezi666 wrote:Tragot Gomndor wrote: this is stupid, i am outta here
but afaik there is a small chance of faction drop . I can confirm, I once had a faction module dropped. The problems with those missions I see: - a typical solo lvl4 mission runner is risk averse and will not have the skills to do them solo, so there is nothing to learn for them - although they foster group play (like the Dagan mission), which is good and will work also for less skilled people, ... burying them in the lvl4 mission "profession" and standing requirements, will exclude the newbies. - the shiny ship vs. reward is not much out of skew compared to the standard lvl4s ... but the likelihood of a loss is much higher, hence putting the risk/reward out of balance for solo play I don't have a good proposal to fix this ... as I clearly see that the lvl4 thing is necessary to protect the mission from being farmed by multiboxers all the day.
do you have data supporting the low skills of average mission runners? I mean I see a ton of high end battleships in mission hubs. or are we assuming these characters are extremely specialized and have no other training? And still I see very little risk in these missions, sure it is higher than the average lv4, but still should be very manageable.
Maybe it will exclude newbs from some content, like you said go meet someone with the standings. Also 5.0 standings are fairly easy to get.
lastly the likely hood of a loss is still dang low, baring disconnects, just need to figure out the proper setup and strategy. I doubt the risk/reward will go that far out of play. still need to see what the mission reward algorithm will say about it, but I would still expect a fairly decent pay off for very little time invested, plus that chance at a faction drop. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11325
|
Posted - 2014.08.24 23:38:00 -
[159] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:lastly the likely hood of a loss is still dang low, baring disconnects I lost 15-20 pirate and assault frigates to the Guristas burner before I finally gave up on my "no implants" rule and got a snake set. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Archetype 66
Epsilon Lyr Mordus Angels
159
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 08:47:00 -
[160] - Quote
I'm still looking for the T1/T2 fit, no links, no implants to kill the Blood Raider bastard...(out of Worm). I think Wolf is the way to go, but I didn't succeeded yet
Thx for the fun CCP :) |
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Aria Jimbojohnson
University of Caille Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.08.25 09:07:00 -
[161] - Quote
I was really excited about the idea of these missions, but the execution is *terrible*. The way they're tuned, it's basically "Gimmick fit a pirate frigate and press F1 for meh rewards" or "dual box and roll your face on the keyboard". Nobody is going to bother losing 100m+ frigates to try to do these once the newness wears off, the reward just isn't there. Very disappointed. These things NEED to be limited to only one pilot fighting them, or they will never be reasonably balanced, because anyone with an ECM alt can faceroll them with no risk. |
Lugalzagezi666
222
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Posted - 2014.08.25 10:11:00 -
[162] - Quote
Archetype 66 wrote:I'm still looking for the T1/T2 fit, no links, no implants to kill the Blood Raider bastard...(out of Worm). I think Wolf is the way to go, but I didn't succeeded yet
Thx for the fun CCP :)
I tried the wolf and with 280 emp dps at 4.5k I couldnt even scratch him. |
Archetype 66
Epsilon Lyr Mordus Angels
159
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 11:35:00 -
[163] - Quote
Fusion or Hail is the way to go :) I got him slowly going down with it. |
Lugalzagezi666
222
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Posted - 2014.08.25 12:31:00 -
[164] - Quote
So explosive is his resist hole? I thought he has resist profile like usual blood raider npc, well, that explains alot. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
11161
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 12:43:00 -
[165] - Quote
The resist profiles of these NPCs match player ships, not the usual NPC resists. :) Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Archetype 66
Epsilon Lyr Mordus Angels
159
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 13:10:00 -
[166] - Quote
Yup, and the Guristas is really easier to destroy as you understood you have to hit it with EM ^^ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2863
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 14:01:00 -
[167] - Quote
I tried the worm one. A few issues. Several times I got into the position where I could not break his tank and he could not break mine, and I could not leave to refit due to the scram. I get stuck. I thought I could speed tank the missiles, outrun the explosion speed. But that did not work. Even at over 3500 m/s, I was still taking full damage. Is this a bug, or do I just not understand missile damage? The sig radius bloom from my MWD should have only made things worse by a factor of 4, not 20.
Drones act all strange with him. They get in range, then stop following and fall out of range. I was hoping I could use web drones to slow him, catch him with a slower ship, and blast him. Nope, the drones do not stay on target.
Anyway, so far I failing miserably. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Archetype 66
Epsilon Lyr Mordus Angels
159
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 14:21:00 -
[168] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Drones act all strange with him. They get in range, then stop following and fall out of range. I was hoping I could use web drones to slow him, catch him with a slower ship, and blast him. Nope, the drones do not stay on target.
They mwd after him, then try to orbit at their regular speed... |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2863
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 15:10:00 -
[169] - Quote
Archetype 66 wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Drones act all strange with him. They get in range, then stop following and fall out of range. I was hoping I could use web drones to slow him, catch him with a slower ship, and blast him. Nope, the drones do not stay on target.
They mwd after him, then try to orbit at their regular speed... I figured they were trying to do that. Sort of disappointing that drones that are faster then the target cannot properly engage the target. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
46
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 15:26:00 -
[170] - Quote
Was blood burner changed after the downtime?
It seems to have gained max range on its guns.
Also it seems to be passive tanked now. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
11169
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 15:40:00 -
[171] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:Was blood burner changed after the downtime?
It seems to have gained max range on its guns.
Also it seems to be passive tanked now.
Yup some of the tweaks we made to the Blood Burner late last week hit SISI today. It still reps but the tank has been shifted to be a bit more passive and a bit less active. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Ynef
Tesseract Industries
7
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:27:00 -
[172] - Quote
I give up. Undoable.
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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
46
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:37:00 -
[173] - Quote
Yay! Kited the blood one.
Rail DD with spike. MWD and ionic required. Keep at range 35.
1) Web range is 50km. 2) Likes to pulse overheat propmod. Speed jumps between 900 and 1700. My DD had about 1450 speed under webs, so kinda scary, but he goes slower than me on average. 3) The overheat pulse results in 7km distance oscillations when keeping range. Given that he has about 18km scram, spike is the best damage ammo choice between the safe options. 4) The grid is not enough. 250km is such a perfect place to turn around, my love. No, seriously. Dragged him from one end of a 250km bubble to another and had to turn around. Took about 2 minutes to turn. Good thing he doesn't active tank much. 5) Took me 10 minutes and about 600 spikes to plink him to death. |
Karina Adura
Unstable Concoction To Be Determined Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:41:00 -
[174] - Quote
I run into an issue with the gurista burner in that after your first attempt, if you fail, it is at least 40km from the beacon and getting any initial tackle is nearly impossible. Would it be possible to have it return when not agroed? (especially when it is 250km out) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7766
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 17:53:00 -
[175] - Quote
Ynef wrote:I give up. Undoable.
And yet other people are doing just fine. |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
46
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Posted - 2014.08.25 18:11:00 -
[176] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ynef wrote:I give up. Undoable.
And yet other people are doing just fine.
There are make or break things there.
Like having proper skills for certain assaults or access to faction mods.
I.e. the guri could be SO much easier (right now it's a gamble for me if I can kill him before frying my lows) if I only had a couple of faction hardeners instead of meta4 (because T2 won't fit). Or if I could fly enyo.
Or I assume one can pretty easily kill sansha with a retribution. If one can into retribution. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
298
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 18:44:00 -
[177] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The resist profiles of these NPCs match player ships, not the usual NPC resists. :) I think this is one thing that a lot of folks having trouble are overlooking. The outcoming damage profiles roughly match NPC standards, but their resists to incoming fire don't. So, pack EM damage against the shield tankers and Explosive against the armor tankers. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Lugalzagezi666
222
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Posted - 2014.08.25 19:03:00 -
[178] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The resist profiles of these NPCs match player ships, not the usual NPC resists. :) I think this is one thing that a lot of folks having trouble are overlooking. The outcoming damage profiles roughly match NPC standards, but their resists to incoming fire don't. So, pack EM damage against the shield tankers and Explosive against the armor tankers. If their resist profiles actually matched player ships, therm damage vs shield tankers and kin damage vs armor tankers would be better because no decent pilot would leave em/exp hole opened on a pirate frig with such tank capacity as these burners have.
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Matek Sorak
Proposition Thirteen The Third Rail
0
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Posted - 2014.08.25 19:20:00 -
[179] - Quote
Sansha easy mode. No impl, no links. Can overload when his shield around 30%.
[Wolf, burner sansha] Capacitor Power Relay II Small Armor Repairer II Overdrive Injector System II Capacitor Power Relay II Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Precision Light Missile
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Projectile Ambit Extension II
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
301
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Posted - 2014.08.25 20:04:00 -
[180] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The resist profiles of these NPCs match player ships, not the usual NPC resists. :) I think this is one thing that a lot of folks having trouble are overlooking. The outcoming damage profiles roughly match NPC standards, but their resists to incoming fire don't. So, pack EM damage against the shield tankers and Explosive against the armor tankers. If their resist profiles actually matched player ships, therm damage vs shield tankers and kin damage vs armor tankers would be better because no decent pilot would leave em/exp hole opened on a pirate frig with such tank capacity as these burners have. Fozzie said that they match player ships, not necessarily player fits.
I imagine that the EM/EXP holes are not as obvious as on player fits, but they're probably still the holes to exploit. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
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