The main thing a new player wanting to get into PvP needs is a realistic expectation that they are going to blow up a lot early on in their pvp experience.

Blowing up however doesn't equate to losing. It equates to learning - as a player.

Both sides of pvp - character skills and player skills - are important. The first gives you flexibility to fit and competently fly a wider range of ships and the second gives you the ability to fight smartly.

There is no loss as a new player blowing up, because every time you blow up, your smarts as a player improve and a lot of smarts can be gained early on.

The cost of those experiences and whether that is too expensive is another thing. There are a lot of good, cheap fits for ships that allow new players to die a lot and not hurt the account balance a lot, but it's difficult in the game early on to concentrate both on pvp and on learning to generate ISK. I used PLEX early on, but don't need to now. For me that worked and made pvp very cheap.

It's not so much the entitlement of gamers that expect... no, demand, everything be handed to them right now without having to strive for the achievement and learn what they're doing, but the flippant arrogance behind that entitlement.

That's the bottom line. You pay to play the game, and access CCP's servers. You don't pay to be good at it.

Boy, you must be a blast at parties.

Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.

Good, some of them are like parasites, they infect a game with their instant gratification bullshit, devs cater to them, the game dies because it's become ridiculously easy and thus boring, they move onto the next game and repeat the process.

Boy, you must be a blast at parties.

Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.

The amount of humorlessness and EVE IS SERIOUS BUSINESS in this thread is just...well, exactly what I've come to expect from a subset of Eve players over the years, actually.

But hey, if you want to treat Eve as a second job that you don't even get paid to do, go right ahead. I'd prefer to have fun with Eve, and for other players to have fun with me, but that's just me.

It's fine as long as you aren't a CCP stockholder. I understand the sentiment though.

Good, some of them are like parasites, they infect a game with their instant gratification bullshit, devs cater to them, the game dies because it's become ridiculously easy and thus boring, they move onto the next game and repeat the process.

And I bet you care a great deal about the profits of CCP's shareholders.

It's fine as long as you aren't a CCP stockholder. I understand the sentiment though.

Boy, you must be a blast at parties.

Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.

The amount of humorlessness and EVE IS SERIOUS BUSINESS in this thread is just...well, exactly what I've come to expect from a subset of Eve players over the years, actually.

But hey, if you want to treat Eve as a second job that you don't even get paid to do, go right ahead. I'd prefer to have fun with Eve, and for other players to have fun with me, but that's just me.

This is that always fake "I care about CCPs wallet" meme lol.

If the stockholders are that concerned, why did they let CCP make EVE instead of WoW? Did they not know EVE (and spaceships and sandbox games in general) is niche and there is only so much money to be hand in a non-mass appeal niche?

Boy, you must be a blast at parties.

Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.

The amount of humorlessness and EVE IS SERIOUS BUSINESS in this thread is just...well, exactly what I've come to expect from a subset of Eve players over the years, actually.

But hey, if you want to treat Eve as a second job that you don't even get paid to do, go right ahead. I'd prefer to have fun with Eve, and for other players to have fun with me, but that's just me.

I would be if I went to parties.

What other game have you ever played in your life that didn't come with a tutorial level or instructions to tell you how to play it? Eve is a *game*, not a second job. I don't think a lot of players understand that. It's supposed to be *entertainment*. It's supposed to be *fun* -- and fun for new players as well as existing ones.

Yep. I've been playing MMo's since the 2D games like The Realm. It's happened in each and every single one of them.

Well If I go back to when I first started playing games then most of them lol. I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say I have never read an instruction manual for a game to learn how to play it.

The are only 2 reason why I have ever opened an instruction manual.

1. Star Wars - Tie Fighter. Great Story that was included with the game.

2. Back in the day to combat people copying games they would have at the back of the manual a code section. Think towards the end Terminator 3 when they girls fathers code book to open the door.

Alien Breed comes to mind.

See my point above lol.

Color me shocked!

Repeat after me: this is a GAME. It's meant as ENTERTAINMENT.

You are so cool the way you totally ignored Remiel's points and basically pointed and laughed at a throwaway statement.

Go you.

Color me shocked!

You use the words game and entertainment in allcaps as a counter to the statement that you don't get to be good on day 1.

This says nothing about games, entertainment, or the post you quoted, but it does say a lot about you.

Pic related

I know. I have a hard time dealing with my own awesomeness most of the time! I thought it summed up the attitudes of many of the people who play EvE but don't get to ride in the FunVee.

I used to party a lot. I was always the first one to get drunk and naked and start singing karaoke at the top of my lungs from the roof of whatever was easiest to climb. You have to know how to let loose on the weekends after a week of cooking for more than 300 people in the space of two hours, five nights a week. I'm 31 now, I still have fun but after a brush with cancer and a veritable gamut of life problems, I've found myself calming down substantially and finding new ways to have fun without exerting myself.

I know. I have a hard time dealing with my own awesomeness most of the time! I thought it summed up the attitudes of many of the people who play EvE but don't get to ride in the FunVee.

Back in the 80's you had to buy the game to get a manual.

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Ah, the 'standard dodge'. We see it a lot around here.

Say something stupid, the play it off like you didn't say something stupid. It works well in both internet forums and politics.

What's your point, sportsfan?