Where in the world are you getting a T1 frigate plus fittings for 10M?

Like, seriously.

Cause where I am (Amarr) an average frigate hull is around 300k. No way in hell is anybody putting 9.7m in fittings on a T1 frigate.

Yeah great. Notice the "All Level V"? You need perfect fitting skills and it still does crappy dps.

You can always do that on the test server.

You should never be able to do that on Tranquility and here is why:

Combat with ships you can't lose is like Poker without money. It's not really the same and it makes it extremely pointless in my eyes.

It's like you focus on a single engagement and completely forget about the big war around you which forms the rest and the actually important and interesting part of the game.

It's also a bit like WOW duel arena stuff, actually like the crap meaningless PvP in every other game out there.

EVE is not about casual fair 1v1 or team eSports BS you find everywhere else. This is about WAR where you take every chance to sneak up on your enemy with superior force and club him over the head from behind! People who don't get that are in general really bad at EVE. There are a lot of this people in EVE, people who say things like "sportsmanship" or "fair fight". I think they are in the wrong game. I don't say they should go, I just say they should shut up, accept their role as prey and stop to try to destroy this unique and brilliant game with their stupid ideas.

I may have digressed a bit, but that's what you get for mentioning "holographic training"... sorry

Yeah great. Notice the "All Level V"? You need perfect fitting skills and it still does crappy dps.

[quote=Mizhir]but is it going to be any good solo? no chance

At least if learning implant were removed, PvP would be more affordable and there would be no difference in learning speed between PvPers and PvEers.

One of the problems new players have (if not using PLEX to generate isk), it takes quite sometime just to be able to fit +3 implants. As soon as they're fitted they can't afford to get podded, so they have to play safe.

Jump clones need to be far easy to get hold of earlier, that doesn't mean leaving an NPC corp to get one through another player's solution. They need to be easily available for all pilots without the need to leave their corp.

Also replacement clone cost could do with being cheaper towards the top end of the scale.



If it was me, I'd also do away with learning implants and just add the points to the other skill base points, the skill tree is too long anyway (time wise). Don't see why we need 10 implants in our head, when 5 combat/mining ones is more than enough.

At least if learning implant were removed, PvP would be more affordable and there would be no difference in learning speed between PvPers and PvEers.

My god what kind of **** fits do you guys fly and against what kind of **** opponents you use them to suggest pvp is viable with a 2 mils frig

It looks like you missed the two key words here: GÇ£new playerGÇ¥.

A fit is only ever as good as your ability to put it to use. If it costs more than you can afford, you can't put it to use and it is therefore **** no matter what the numbers say. The 2M ISK setup beats it 9 times out of 10 because the expensive shitfit simply does not show up. And when it does show up, the 2M ISK wins anyway because that pilot now has 10+ù more experience.

So the **** fit and the **** opponent is one and the same: the 10M GÇ£newbieGÇ¥ frigate.

Be serious, those kind of ships (aka the all mighty derp tron of doom) are only viable in huge numbers in attrition wars, which is just a minimal part of pvp


Try going with them solo or in a small gang and be facesmashed 1 v many by the first serious guy you meet

A new player with a **** fit is cannon fodder, a new player in a decent fit might have a chance given the right engagement. So if the new player can't afford the decent fit, IT IS a problem, because he'll just remain cannon fodder, and most likely get discouraged and call it quits with pvp untill **** knows when

I started solo PvP ing at 1.5 mil SP, my incursus fits costed me around 10 mills

Nah, you missed the point. A new player with a **** fit is cannon fodder, a new player in a decent fit might have a chance given the right engagement. So if the new player can't afford the decent fit, IT IS a problem, because he'll just remain cannon fodder, and most likely get discouraged and call it quits with pvp untill **** knows when

I started solo PvP ing at 1.5 mil SP, my incursus fits costed me around 10 mills (also, running meta 4 make your fits pricier than t2) and i got some nice kills with it. With a -derptron- i might have just quitted tbh

It's far more likely that the 10M guy will never learn to fit his ship properly and will never actually get into PvP because he's so focused imaginary and ultimately irrelevant GÇ£must havesGÇ¥ (such as the higher-tiered equipment that ratchets up the cost). It's just ye olde GÇ£don't do X until you have YGÇ¥ in monetary form, and it is as bad an idea here as it is everywhere else.

wasted the fist year playing exactly like this

Good thing you rectified that.

Wow. A ship that works in some circumstances, but doesn't in others. Amazing. Hard to believe, even.

Close but not quite.
A new player without the experience of what his ship is capable of is cannon fodder. He has no ability to judge what the right engagement is. Any (non-stupid) fit is decent given the right circumstances, and it's the composition rather than the cost that determines the stupidity of the fit. The trick lies in learning what those circumstances are.

A new player in a 10M ship is far more cannon fodder than one in a 2M ship for the simple reason that the former will lack the experience of the latter (in fact, he might be dangerously overconfident that his 10M will carry the day, when it will actually do nothing of the kind), and the gap will only increase the longer it takes for the 10M guy to stop wasting money.

It's far more likely that the 10M guy will never learn to fit his ship properly and will never actually get into PvP because he's so focused imaginary and ultimately irrelevant GÇ£must havesGÇ¥ (such as the higher-tiered equipment that ratchets up the cost). It's just ye olde GÇ£don't do X until you have YGÇ¥ in monetary form, and it is as bad an idea here as it is everywhere else.

That's needlessly late and laughably overpriced.

One of the big issues that I feel put players off PVP is the cost. This is especially true for new players.

Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.

Now 10m is a lot, -don't laugh- for new players and I suspect for a lot of people it is a lot. New players can't do incursions and their ISK/hour on missions will be low because of sub-par dps or tank. After 6 months in the game I was still going about 15m an hour in a navy raven doing lv4s.

The result is people spend more time engaged in missioning and mining to fund their pvp activity. Now I had a lot of free time then so I could grind missions for hours to do pvp a lot, (about half a billion worth of it if I remember). However now that I'm in work I doubt I could/would.

And people wonder why half the player base ends up mining/missioning?

I don't agree.

A new player in a derp fit (cost wise) might actually learn absolutely nothing, or vastly underestimate the potential performance of the hull.

just look at how many people around underestimate the atron, pretty much nobody considers them a threatening frig exactly because of derptron.

A new player in a derptron will engage target x and lose, thus concluding that

To sum it up, OP has a point. ISK is a problem for people new to pvp

The title says nothing about solo PvP

Why on earth would anyone do that if they had a choice?

This is what happens when you think isk wins fights.