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Gaan Cathal
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
20
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:08:42 -
[31] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Couple things I want to say in support:
- Sig radius is a stat that makes tons of sense to put on the overview as well, as how big the signature is should be pretty obvious if you are close enough to see it.
- Directly effects the damage of missiles, and indirectly of guns
- It is the (%wise) most variable stat on ships after speed.
- It strongly effects what you shoot in several situations in PVP (damp + ECM combos, where they break some locks and then damp your scan res)
- Seriously, it is the size of the signature to your sensors, why isn't it an option to view?
Also, l2p transversal-fans. Angular velocity is the stat that actually matters.
This, right here. Also for those against...it's an optional goddamn column. What's so supa-sekrit about your sig-rad that you need to keep it hidden from other people? |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
358
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Posted - 2014.11.26 18:09:43 -
[32] - Quote
Bump
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
643
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Posted - 2014.11.26 18:21:16 -
[33] - Quote
Good idea.
I think it could also be nice to see what friendly effects are being applied to your locked targets. For example, if I lock six targets, it might be nice to see which one of them my fleet members already have target painted or disrupted. Yes, I know this is currently usually handled through out of game comms right now, but improving the in game tools should never stop.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
338
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Posted - 2014.11.26 19:22:34 -
[34] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:I guess we should show people's resist profiles on the overview as well then? Quite so. Isn't this really quite important information to be just giving away?
Travelling at the speed of love.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
643
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Posted - 2014.11.26 19:28:41 -
[35] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:I guess we should show people's resist profiles on the overview as well then? Quite so. Isn't this really quite important information to be just giving away?
Your ship sensors already know the target's signature radius, just as they already know how fast it is moving. Of course they could not get resistance profile without using a ship scanner.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
298
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Posted - 2014.11.26 19:50:50 -
[36] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:I guess we should show people's resist profiles on the overview as well then? Quite so. Isn't this really quite important information to be just giving away? Signature radius? not really, and it just makes sense that you can see how big the signature is when it determines how long it takes to lock and IS THE SIZE OF THE THING TO YOUR SENSORS.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
339
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Posted - 2014.11.26 20:03:33 -
[37] - Quote
Well yeah but if we can step out of RP land for a moment isn't some of the viability of certain ships their versatility?
Judging by speed is a best guess cause there's so many ways it can vary. 9/10 sig radius instantly lets you know Armor/Shield/Active Shield, kicking some ships hard in return for what, not accidentally loading the wrong ammo sometimes?
Not sure the upside is worth losing those WTF moments tbh. Saying 'yeah but my ship is clever and knows' isn't a justification for changing anything in the game.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Foxicity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.11.26 20:31:04 -
[38] - Quote
This is a generally good idea, but I see one serious problem. There are, in essence, so few variables that affect signature radius that you could easily and immediately identify that a pilot is flying with either Skirmish boosts or Halo implants. This does not apply so easily to any other stat. There is a fudge factor in observing someone's speed, armor and shields for instance (mods, overheats, skills, implants, boosts) that keeps you from so easily identifying, for example, a Snaked or Slaved pilot.
In other words, this would allow you to identify a Halo pilot very easily. From there, just... instalock and blap the pod. Guaranteed 1b kill. |
Aran Hotchkiss
Phoibe Enterprises
13
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Posted - 2014.11.27 00:08:29 -
[39] - Quote
I like this idea, granted the point's been made about so few things affect your signature radius, but personally I like this because while it can be fairly evident the penalties armour tanking will do to your boat, moving and turning slower, it's a bit more difficult when shield tanking because you know "this will make me get hit harder" but... you can't really tell how much by. I feel those in the-know are aware of the subtle/not-so-subtle impact a reduced sig radius makes, and this can give them an advantage over those who're unaware.
I feel adding this option would make have the effect of getting a much greater number of people familiar with sig radii beyond 'you look bigger to their guns' - me included. Maybe for some people that's a bad thing - I guess one question asked is "Is this a good/nice/whatever idea that should be implemented, or is it simply dumbing the game down for those who can't/won't read between the lines?"
Anyway , +1 'specially so cause I use missiles and sig radius is..... quite relevant.
Quote:n other words, this would allow you to identify a Halo pilot very easily. From there, just... instalock and blap the pod. Guaranteed 1b kill.
I'd expect a halo pilot would have a better chance than most to get his pod out when his ship's going down. That and if he didn't want to lose his pod, don't fly it in the first place. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1714
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Posted - 2014.11.27 00:25:38 -
[40] - Quote
Ix Method wrote: Well yeah but if we can step out of RP land for a moment isn't some of the viability of certain ships their versatility?
Judging by speed is a best guess cause there's so many ways it can vary. 9/10 sig radius would instantly let you know Armor/Shield/Active Shield, kicking some ships hard.
Not sure the upside is worth losing those WTF moments tbh. And saying [yeah but my ship is clever and knows] isn't a justification for changing the game.
Sig radius as mentioned is a thing your sensors already know and are affected by. It affects how long you take to lock a ship. And how much damage your missiles do.
If angular velocity is visible which affects how much damage your guns do, Sig radius is the comparable stat for missiles.
Resist profile is not something that directly affects you however, though resist profile should appear on ship scanners really. To make them actually more useful than a ganking tool. But as it does not have a direct effect on you, only an indirect effect it should not appear on the overview.
This will also make it more obvious how many 'solo' PvPers are lying through their teeth and using boosting alts, which is a good thing. And to tell the difference between shield & armour fits will still require a lot of pilot knowledge, how do you tell between an armour fit and a shield fit with sig radius links after all. Since shield fits aren't all identical in how much sig bloom there is due to different rigs and fittings. So it doesn't remove player skill. |
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
398
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Posted - 2015.01.22 18:45:31 -
[41] - Quote
Foxicity wrote: There is a fudge factor in observing someone's speed, armor and shields for instance (mods, overheats, skills, implants, boosts) that keeps you from so easily identifying, for example, a Snaked or Slaved pilot.
On shield tanked and rigged ships, there is still some fudge factor there due to not knowing exactly what skill his shield rigging skill is, along with knowing what shield extender he has on.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Arla Sarain
249
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Posted - 2015.01.22 18:58:44 -
[42] - Quote
When there was a thread about putting turret hit chance on the overview a lot of the replies were tears that it will allow people to directly reverse calculate (midst fight, yeah? people still cried) the sig radius and hence determine the the targets fit.
That's from something as ambiguous as hit chance which depends on 2 other variables.
Now there are people vouching for this which gives sig radius directly. #EVEplayerbase is toplel.
I'm not against it. But won't support either. Sig radius whilst changing from ship to ship, for a particular ship doesn't change often, because there is only MWD and TPs that change it real time.
All other changes occur when implants,boosters, links and titans are added. The frequency of change for these is less common. As this number stays the same for the majority of time, it WILL directly inform the opponent of the fit.
A 30m sig radius slasher or a 40m sig radius slasher is the difference between active or passive fit. |
Alexis Nightwish
86
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Posted - 2015.01.22 21:20:22 -
[43] - Quote
+1
CCP only approaches a problem in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
923
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Posted - 2015.01.22 21:28:20 -
[44] - Quote
I see absolutely no reason whatsoever you should have access to this information that would allow you to tell with ease which type of tanking ships that can use either type is using, or if shield only ships are using an active or passive tank.
I shouldn't be able to glance at my overview and go "Yup, look at that sig radius, it's definitely a shield gank thorax, not an armor heavy tackle"
You do realize that shield extender and shield rigs increase sig radius right?
-1 |
Ix Method
Shadows Legion High-Sec Tomfoolery
386
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Posted - 2015.01.22 21:47:11 -
[45] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:This will also make it more obvious how many 'solo' PvPers are lying through their teeth and using boosting alts, which is a good thing. The fact a stupid idea negates a broken system doesn't make it any less stupid. It just means off-grid links need to die.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
399
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Posted - 2015.01.22 22:05:46 -
[46] - Quote
Anhenka wrote: You do realize that shield extender and shield rigs increase sig radius right?
And halos and skirmish boosts reduce signature radius. At which point you ask yourself, does he have skirmish boosts and halos along with being shield tanked? Or is he armor tanked?
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Quantum Distributions
1373
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Posted - 2015.01.22 22:29:28 -
[47] - Quote
Hopelesshobo wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Quesa wrote:My fear for this is that it would be an overburden on the servers because this is the type of thing that is not only affected by what the pilot does with his ship but what others do to it as well. So not only is this calculating the sig radius by the ship, active modules, fleet bonuses and pilot skill set but it would also have to consider hostile painters.
The type of information just requires too much overhead to be put on the overview with no foreseeable equal gain.
Things like traversal require few bits of information and are not modified by skills, bonuses, active modules an active EWAR each time it needs to update the overview. The server already has the info since the sig size determine how long it takes to get a lock... Yup, so the only increase in load would be to push the information the server already has, to the clients. Pushing this would scale at O(n^2) though. I know plenty of things in eve do, but I'd rather see better server stability than additional (admittedly useful) information on the overview.
New player resources:
Uni Wiki - General Info
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Harry Saq
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
12
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Posted - 2015.01.22 22:44:53 -
[48] - Quote
Sure why not add it....though my overview is already crowded to the point of silly anyway...but it is logical that I would be able to see/detect it... |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
205
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Posted - 2015.01.22 23:34:02 -
[49] - Quote
I always wanted this. However, there is one thing why it might be a bad idea: it gives away some very valuable information about ship fitting (i.e. shield vs armor tank), if someone is running an mwd at decreased speed in order to pose as an AB user etc. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
549
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Posted - 2015.01.23 03:22:17 -
[50] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:I see absolutely no reason whatsoever you should have access to this information that would allow you to tell with ease which type of tanking ships that can use either type is using, or if shield only ships are using an active or passive tank.
I shouldn't be able to glance at my overview and go "Yup, look at that sig radius, it's definitely a shield gank thorax, not an armor heavy tackle"
You do realize that shield extender and shield rigs increase sig radius right?
-1
but i should be able to tell at a glance if you are mwd or ab fit? or if you are using oversize armor or prop mods?
Fuel block colors
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1114
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Posted - 2015.01.23 04:07:11 -
[51] - Quote
Hesitant to agree. Since Bombs don't work like traditional "explosive" projectiles (missiles) having this information available would simply give a huge advantage to bombers. However if CCP were to change bombs so speed and explosion velocity were calculated as well in a similar way as missiles (lowest value first), then I think this would be a good adjustment.
As it stands today all this does is paints a nice rosy picture for bombers as soon as they land on grid, and since shield ships will always have a higher sig than armor ships (assuming both run MWD or don't run MWD), this would effectively kill shield doctrines, which are already limping along, outside of fringe cases like the Ishtar (which is for reasons irrelevant to shields actually being good).
No +1 from me until CCP changes how bomb damage is calculated. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
700
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Posted - 2015.01.23 06:59:24 -
[52] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Anhenka wrote:I see absolutely no reason whatsoever you should have access to this information that would allow you to tell with ease which type of tanking ships that can use either type is using, or if shield only ships are using an active or passive tank.
I shouldn't be able to glance at my overview and go "Yup, look at that sig radius, it's definitely a shield gank thorax, not an armor heavy tackle"
You do realize that shield extender and shield rigs increase sig radius right?
-1 but i should be able to tell at a glance if you are mwd or ab fit? or if you are using oversize armor or prop mods?
I can get all that info by pressing 'look at'..... |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
315
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Posted - 2015.01.23 07:03:57 -
[53] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but i should be able to tell at a glance if you are mwd or ab fit? The game shows you what they are using if you zoom in, I just checked with a duel prop. It'll also tell you if they are using active hardeners; which is to say, unless crazy mindgames are coming into play, there's a good shot you know at a glance.
The only thing you'd glean from this are drugs, implants, and boosters. And even then the barrier to exact numbers before was that math on the fly is hard in combat. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
464
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Posted - 2015.01.23 08:16:32 -
[54] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:You're forgetting the increase in load on the pilot, reading this stuff on top of everything else they already have to read in the course of a fight, nevermind that between someone's ship type (frigate, battleship, cruiser, etc.) and velocity you should be able to reasonably approximate their sig radius.
Information overload is a thing, data takes time to read and process and there's not as much time as one would like except during TiDi. What you're describing is a fault of the UI, not of the data wanting to be displayed in question. We already know how information on the overview is cumbersome and it is agreed that it should be changed in some way to be easier to track (listed stats on the target ship, maybe?), so the question isn't whether to implement a good idea or not, it's how to implement a good idea to a poorly designed UI. |
Amarisen Gream
The ArK's Hammer ArK Alliance
61
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Posted - 2015.01.23 08:37:12 -
[55] - Quote
Not to high-jack your day thread. A few months back I asked CCP in the little things post to give us the absolute to have our watch list players and their HP in our overview as a column. I believe CCP Kurkur (sorry for misspelling) stated it was a good idea but due to the current set up it would consume to much data.
The problem CCP isn't CPU it is data thrush holds that people have.
The overview should be the the place to get like 90% of are info. Even target hp, but it doesn't work that way.
xoxo
Amarisen Gream
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Aran Hotchkiss
Phoibe Enterprises
59
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Posted - 2015.01.23 10:01:40 -
[56] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:Not to high-jack your day thread. A few months back I asked CCP in the little things post to give us the absolute to have our watch list players and their HP in our overview as a column. I believe CCP Kurkur (sorry for misspelling) stated it was a good idea but due to the current set up it would consume to much data.
The problem CCP isn't CPU it is data thrush holds that people have.
The overview should be the the place to get like 90% of are info. Even target hp, but it doesn't work that way.
I'm having trouble figuring out if you're for or against this..... your first and third paragraphs seem to support it whilst your second is against it....
Personally I like this idea - and I feel it's worth mentioning I play on a single 13" monitor where everything is competing for space, including the overview, and sig radius is something I'd make a compromise to include on my overview
Shamelessly stole this line,
Alternatively, QFT
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns Triumvirate.
33
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Posted - 2015.01.23 22:00:45 -
[57] - Quote
-1
It gives too much info out and you have no real control about it. With speed you can always play slower than you are, with sig you can't do anything. |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
422
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Posted - 2015.02.28 03:45:45 -
[58] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Yup, so the only increase in load would be to push the information the server already has, to the clients.
Pushing this would scale at O(n^2) though. I know plenty of things in eve do, but I'd rather see better server stability than additional (admittedly useful) information on the overview.[/quote]
Yes it would increase the server load, but by a minuscule amount because I would be surprised if CCP had it setup where it pushed the data out to the clients if the column wasn't active in your overview. And since the server already has the data on your sig radius, it would just have to do a check to see if you have it as an active column. If you do not have it, then the server would go back to what it normally would do, but if you had it checked then it would push the data to your client.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
518
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Posted - 2015.04.16 09:26:34 -
[59] - Quote
Still waiting for this vital information, that I should have by the time I'm done locking a thing, to be available somehow.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Ivarr Kerensky
Kerensky Tactical Group
47
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Posted - 2015.04.16 09:41:05 -
[60] - Quote
Showing actual sig radius would give far too much information on fitting, links and whatnot. So no, it shouldn't be implemented.
Excellence is an attitude.
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