Griefing is already banned in EVE.

Well surely you agree with your leader on #3 at least.

I don't i feel you need to be held responsible for who you let into your corp. Awoxing is the part of the game many people enjoy and on a variety of different levels. just because its a part of the game you don't like doesn't mean it needs to be removed.

hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies. The dueling mechanic completely removes the 'need' for corp members to shoot one another outside of Concord enforcement.

It needs to be removed because it causes new players to leave the game.

In the words of The Mittani:

#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game.

#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game."

It needs to be removed because it causes new players to leave the game.

In the words of The Mittani:

Getting killed in PvP causes new players to leave the game. We obviously need to keep anyone from dying in PvP.

Not being reimbursed for 100% of your ships hull/equipment when you die causes new players to leave the game. We obviously need to reimburse 100% of the cost.

Not being able to AFK mine in peace causes new players to leave the game. AFK miners should obviously not be able to be attacked.

Not being able to instawarp your assets between locations causes new players to leave the game. We obviously should be able to instawarp assets.

Not being able to buy skillpoints with ISK causes new players to leave the game. We should obviously be able to buy skillpoints with isk.


Should I keep going, or do you get the point?

In the words of The Mittani:

There are lots of ways to protect yourself against the above issues in OP's post. However these are often learnt the hard way, and are incredibly damaging to the whole atmosphere of the game - don't trust anyone, etc etc.

I've gone to a starter system in a Orca, offered to boost newbros and been declined because they assumed I was going to kill them. I've offered Perfect Orca boosts to ice and ore miners in a couple of systems, and again been told they're not interested because I could be trying to gank them. Is this the atmosphere we want to give to the people who bring new blood to our universe?

#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game."

There are lots of ways to protect yourself against the above issues in OP's post. However these are often learnt the hard way, and are incredibly damaging to the whole atmosphere of the game - don't trust anyone, etc etc.

Yes this is what drew me and many others to the game. The challenge that comes from playing against the other people and when you can't trust anyone the bonds you form with the people you do trust become that much stronger.

+1

I do very little PvP (meaning, fleets to actively hunt), but if PvP wasn't as big of a part of this game, I wouldn't be around.

1 - Don't think this is a good idea. In real life anyone can attack you at anytime, and Eve should certainly not be more sheltered than real life.

3 - Probably agree - The awox mechanic never made much sense.

#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game."

Banning awoxing? CCP uses it to advertise eve.

Well surely you agree with your leader on #3 at least.

What some see as griefing, others see as fun.

#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game."

Just read the OP, and what I saw was:

Remove all non-consensual PvP.

Not supported, (and that is coming from a former highsec carebear!)

You are correct that there is much greifing in high-sec but CCP is just too stupid and lazy to realize these unfair and broken mechanics are only doing harm to their game.

12 years on, ganking will kill EVE any time now.

Indeed, it's still dying to this day.

If theres any change to Wardecs I'd like a mechanic where the AGGRESSOR can set an ISK value that is publicly shown on the dec where if they (the aggressor) lose X amount in ships the war gets invalidated. It seems like a strange mechanic, but I'd like the attackers to have a carrot to offer the defender to actually undock and try to fight. Theres not enough trying to fight in HS.

-From the aggressor perspective this may get you more kills.

-From the defenders perspective this is actually a reason to bother trying. 3 noobs in omens might just move the meter even if they all die.

I'd be happy to see HS AWOXING go. I understand the freedom of the sandbox, but any mechanic that is preventing new players from grouping has gotta go IMO. When reading about war decs, the suggestion for new players is to group up and fight back. Theres a contradiction here, and I think fixing that might get us another percent or two added to the 10% of the players that actually get involved with the game past leveling up their Raven.

HS War decs keep new players from grouping up far more often that's generally the reason i get when new players leave corp to sit and mine or run missions. yet this is still a small number of people

If highsec is forcing new players to quickly find homes in deep blue null or lowsec somewhere, then that's just fine. Highsec is a truly awful place anyhow and they're not missing out on anything.

Before you ask, hush. I like the well-stocked markets and the lack of god-awful politics.

At the end of the day that is exactly what I'm hoping to stop. These new players are scattering at the exact moment they should be forming up and its hurting New Eden.

Around 10% are making it that far... thats my issue with leaving things as is. Imagine PVP with that getting to 13% or 14%.. we don't need big changes. Just tweaks in the early game.

Does your corp have ships fit at your HQ ready to hand to noobs in the event of a wardec? Is the leadership of your corp capable of forming 3-4 man gangs to try and gank solo war targets? Are fleets scheduled when a dec goes out with instructions on what ship to bring? How about overviews setups? These are the things that aren't happening in new player hi sec corps.

My suggestion gives the attacker a way to give you an incentive to do that and actually fight with a defined "end war" goal for the defender. Right now the system as it is says, "If you defend yourself and win, the attacker may choose to keep you decc'd and no matter how many kills you get, you may never actually get out of the war. Pray your attacker isn't space rich."

Would it be easier for you to rally your noobs into meta-4 rail thoraxes if you know you can "win" the war because the attacker said if you undock fight and kill 200 mil it'll end? Consider that question.

Again with Rise's god-awful numbers. Have any of you lot considered that of the 50% quitting EVE early on, most of those may have found that EVE just isn't the game for them?

Again with Rise's god-awful numbers. Have any of you lot considered that of the 50% quitting EVE early on, most of those may have found that EVE just isn't the game for them?

Again with Rise's god-awful numbers. Have any of you lot considered that of the 50% quitting EVE early on, most of those may have found that EVE just isn't the game for them?

So 50 of the quitters gone... that leaves us with another 50 percent sticking around... and what little changes can we make to keep 3% or 4% more is a bad thing to consider?

So 50 of the quitters gone... that leaves us with another 50 percent sticking around... and what little changes can we make to keep 3% or 4% more is a bad thing to consider?

Eve isn't a game for new players at all, that's the problem. The older the game gets the bigger the gap between new players and established players gets. Even though they might like the concept, and the enormous scope of the game there is such a huge gap in skills and resources between mature toons and new toons it feels insurmountable. I think the least they should expect is to be afforded additional protection from bittervets without being forced to spend most of their time hiding in dead npc corps or afraid to undock. There should be beginners protection where new accounts can choose to participate in war decs or not without having to leave their player corp. When their corp gets war decced new toons should have to actually opt in before they can be shot at for at least 6 months while they train BASIC skills needed for pvp.

Players who stay in highsec tend to quit EVE anyway; there are very few of us who can actually live there for a long time and not be horribly bored out of our skulls.

If highsec is forcing new players to quickly find homes in deep blue null or lowsec somewhere, then that's just fine. Highsec is a truly awful place anyhow and they're not missing out on anything.

Before you ask, hush. I like the well-stocked markets and the lack of god-awful politics.

The only thing I agree is removal of in Corp high sec awoxing. It is bad for the game becuse make new players have a hard tiem to get into corps, because most corps do not trust new players, fearing awoxing.

And staying in NPC corps is one of the most serious obstacles to make people stay in this game.

So in order to do "criminal" things a player must do criminal things. And to do criminal things a player has the option to "go criminal" at will. But they can't go criminal in the first place because they must be criminals first.
Flawless circular logic there!

No Se+¦or, there still be lowsec.

There are far more things that cause a lot more ppl to leave the game

Really? This again? Clearly you do not understand how skills work. There isn't nearly as much of a "gap" or "divide" between new players and old in terms of skills as people like to think. A newbie can specialize into an area and be just as good at it, training-wise, as even the oldest of old players. Not only can they do this, they can do it in a mere fraction of the time that the old player has spent playing the game.

Is there a gap in wealth? Probably, but if you're really that obsessed with ISK you can sell a few PLEX and be right up there with the other billionaires.

New players don't need to be protected from old players. They need to be protected from the ridiculous stupid ideas they bring with them from themepark MMOs and they need to be protected from the ridiculous stupid notion that those ideas should apply in EVE too.

Griefing is already banned in EVE.

Really? This again? Clearly you do not understand how skills work. There isn't nearly as much of a "gap" or "divide" between new players and old in terms of skills as people like to think. A newbie can specialize into an area and be just as good at it, training-wise, as even the oldest of old players. Not only can they do this, they can do it in a mere fraction of the time that the old player has spent playing the game.

Is there a gap in wealth? Probably, but if you're really that obsessed with ISK you can sell a few PLEX and be right up there with the other billionaires.

New players don't need to be protected from old players. They need to be protected from the ridiculous stupid ideas they bring with them from themepark MMOs and they need to be protected from the ridiculous stupid notion that those ideas should apply in EVE too.

Well surely you agree with your leader on #3 at least.

no, awoxing is fine.

it's neutral logi that's broken beyond belief.

(quoting first post)

In the words of The Mittani:

The only thing I agree is removal of in Corp high sec awoxing. It is bad for the game becuse make new players have a hard tiem to get into corps, because most corps do not trust new players, fearing awoxing.

I don't agree with everything, but overall +1

#1 would just be nice so that gankers can't hide behind concord. If you have the incentive to prey on ships that can't fight back, i see nothing wrong with giving ppl incentive to prey on you. It may also create some content by adding more players with criminal status in highsec.

And you missed the point.

He illustrated quite clearly how the person he was quoting was just using a variation of the "PvP doesn't belong in highsec" fallacy.

It's just a spin on "force all neg sec status players into lowsec".

no you can deal with them at least neutral boosters are a much bigger problem

That being said, I've seen anything up to 6-8 logi behind a single ship, good luck breaking that chain.

no, repping someone shooting a corpmate doesn't trigger a suspect timer.

ah i thought we were talking about war decs i was confused then yes and i feel anyone repping someone with a LE timer should get LE timers with everyone the person being repped has