And trust me, as one who has bothered trying - no matter how many well written and thoughtful responses you give, you will get no actual conversation beyond him repeating his point over and over, as if by number of times it is said somehow validity is added.

Don't like people getting in the way of your incursion thingie? Strap on some guns, hire some mercs, do something to stop them. Sounds like player conflict, which is best left to players - not throwing tears at CCP in hopes they will make changes.

Again, before the agreement Incursions were not open to new players; they were treated as endgame content and the closest a new player could get to them was a Logi [4] Basilisk in Vanguards.


However... I seem to remember that the agreement was referenced in CCP's decision to nerf Vanguard income - so perhaps, now that Incursions are getting back to where they were before the agreement, they might consider increasing the site payouts again.

No one runs them in lowsec because it would be crazy to have a 40 man battleship fleet in lowsec. You would be begging to get hotdropped and massacred. Incursions are occasionally run in sovereign null, but in a very careful fashion, with the entire fleet usually docking up if a hostile appears in local. To address that CCP has buffed the nullsec incursion awards, and we will see if that gets more participation. Obviously you need to be part of a major alliance to participate.

Highsec incursion runners would not go to lowsec if somehow highsec incursions ended. It would just mean the end of pretty much the only communal PvE activity in highsec. The risk/reward is not much different than competent people blitzing SOE L4's. CCP is already on record as being happy with incursions (rightfully in my mind), and if anything is looking for ways to get more people to run them as opposed to just soloing L4s, mining, etc... and is certainly not looking to remove them from highsec!

You just want easy ISK without risk and doing the work for it. There are many ways to protect a fleet. Moving incursions away from Highsec would encourage even more teamplay in the PvE community to protect their assets from hotdrops. The current risk/reward situation with incursions is completely out of control. Maybe CCP said they are happy without it, but they are wrong all the time, so I simply try to make them aware of the real problem.

I mean this thread alone is a monument to the mindset of the incursion PvE community. Maximize ISK farming, even moving your ships in Highsec is a inconvenience you try to avoid by extending the time you can farm sites without risk and effort. I think it is obvious to everyone outside of your bubble that this is one gigantic unbalanced risk free ISK faucet which is probably one of the main causes for the massive inflation we all observe in the game.

Something has to be done, and moving incursions to Lowsec is the right thing to do. It will not be possible to balance them in Highsec where there is virtually no risk for the incursion runner. This is not WOW where site farming is a non issue because players are isolated by various mechanics. This is EVE and such unbalanced stuff has a big influence on the whole market and disrupts other parts of the game which worked well for years.

No one runs them in lowsec because it would be crazy to have a 40 man battleship fleet in lowsec. You would be begging to get hotdropped and massacred.

Except ... wait a second ...

DJ if you feel the need to come in and troll and make personal attacks, could you do it somewhere else please? I'm really not interested in a discussion with you, nor do I feel the need to go into personal attacks, and I would prefer if my thread not get derailed. Why not make a post with your idea for ending highsec incursions? Thanks.

They hotdrop you on the way to the incursion system - or they hotdrop a fleet next door and come in and massacre you, etc.... Again if you don't believe me about the current state of incursions in lowsec - do some research. Show me who is running them, and how fast influence is going down. From what I can tell the lowsec incursions tend to attract a very sparse crowd (as opposed to nullsec, which, when in the correct location, can draw fleets). But I digress - I would rather discuss how to improve highsec incursions.

No one runs them in lowsec

I'd prefer to get back to my specific suggestion instead of incursions in general, so will just respond briefly, and then hopefully can get back to topic.


Highsec is about "easy" ISK. Mission running, mining, incursions - these are all not very risky activities. Highsec is a place where if you put in work you can earn a reasonable amount of ISK without facing a tremendous amount of risk. If anything, incursions are much riskier than mining or mission running. There is no way to protect a 40 man battleship fleet in lowsec from hotdrops. There is a reason no one uses a doctrine like that. If you really want to make lowsec incursions viable, ask CCP to massively buff battleships, and nerf the heck out of capitals, bombers, drones, frigates, etc... I don't think there is going to be much reception to that. The idea that there should be communal PvE activities available where you can earn ISK while working with other people is nothing to apologize for.

Giving one group of people the ability to close down incursion sites after a few hours and deny everyone else the chance to make ISK is not a normal mechanic for Eve, and that's what I'm highlighting. Incidentally, the deflation for eve commodities suggest that the problem is not too many ISK faucets (if so ships, mods, etc...would skyrocket in ISK price), rather the problem is too much mining which is making commodities too plentiful and outstripping the growth rate of ISK, driving down their price. So if that is your concern you should support more incursion running to combat the dangerous deflation we are seeing (which is also driving up Plex prices).

Ok, hopefully we can get comments from people (not CODE!) who want to see incursions becoming a better game mechanic instead of just ban them all, ban them from highsec, etc...

The logic of 'close hisec incursions and folks can run them in low/null' falls apart when you look to see what happens when hisec incusions are closed due to swift ending of mom sites.

Do the incursioneers all flock to low?

nope

btw Imma, your sig makes me giggle because Code Always Wins is . . . .well AT XII

I agree that the kundallini spawn mechanic can stand a looking at and I have spoken to CCP about it already and have more to say next week at the summit.

For those of you thinking that this is a kneejerk reaction to the slap fight happening right now between ISN and TVP, wrong. This idea and request came to me long before the latest p*ssing match started.

I endorse incursions as working for isk . . . earning it. There was risk but the communities worked hard to minimize it over time and now they reap the benefits by working. I don't know of any afk mechanic in incursions. Can null say the same about their income streams? Do they include and involve active play?

m

The logic of 'close hisec incursions and folks can run them in low/null' falls apart when you look to see what happens when hisec incusions are closed due to swift ending of mom sites.

Do the incursioneers all flock to low?

nope

btw Imma, your sig makes me giggle because Code Always Wins is . . . .well AT XII

I agree that the kundallini spawn mechanic can stand a looking at and I have spoken to CCP about it already and have more to say next week at the summit.

For those of you thinking that this is a kneejerk reaction to the slap fight happening right now between ISN and TVP, wrong. This idea and request came to me long before the latest p*ssing match started.

I endorse incursions as working for isk . . . earning it. There was risk but the communities worked hard to minimize it over time and now they reap the benefits by working. I don't know of any afk mechanic in incursions. Can null say the same about their income streams? Do they include and involve active play?

m

. Why should anyone take someone seriously who argues in such a way?

High-sec incursions are extreme income with almost no risk ... if something should be done with them than nerfing their income or making them more risky is only way to go ... right now those glass cannons making billions of isk every hour (i mean whole fleet for slower readers) with less contribution to eve community then any other group of players are ridiculously OP ... Eve needs more isk sinks, not more income into player wallets, specially this free income ...

Why is this a problem? Sounds like player freedom being exercised to me.

minimal consequences.

I agree that the kundallini spawn mechanic can stand a looking at and I have spoken to CCP about it already and have more to say next week at the summit.

I'm not sure this is right. The risk of losing a ship in an incursion is much higher than if mining or mission running. And looking at the income of the entire fleet does not make sense, it's the income of the individual pilots, which taking into account travel, waiting to get into fleet, etc...is nothing special compared to blitzing SOE L4s, mining, or station trading.

And given the general deflation in Eve, the problem is not too many isk faucets. If anything its that New Eden is flooded with too many cheap raw materials.

For months (and longer) highsec incursions have been plagued by people completing the Kundalini site early. This forces everyone to move and allows one group of players to deny everyone else the ability to run sites together. The natural solution is to extend the time period during which the mothership cannot be destroyed (because it has not yet spawned).

I suggest that in HIGHSEC, and only in HIGHSEC -

The Kundalini site should not spawn until the incursion goes into withdraw (or at the very least until it is deeply into mobolized). This will allow pilots to stay longer at a single incursion site, and will not give any one group the ability to close down incursions early (as nearly all groups have done at one time or another).

All the hard work that Incursion FCs do does not justify changing mechanics to prevent someone from knocking over your ISK-farming sandcastles.

There's no good reason why Incursioners should be protected from emergent behavior, even if that emergent behavior is just someone being a jerk because they can.

Except ... wait a second ...