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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 00:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
For months (and longer) highsec incursions have been plagued by people completing the Kundalini site early. This forces everyone to move and allows one group of players to deny everyone else the ability to run sites together. The natural solution is to extend the time period during which the mothership cannot be destroyed (because it has not yet spawned).
I suggest that in HIGHSEC, and only in HIGHSEC -
The Kundalini site should not spawn until the incursion goes into withdraw (or at the very least until it is deeply into mobolized). This will allow pilots to stay longer at a single incursion site, and will not give any one group the ability to close down incursions early (as nearly all groups have done at one time or another). |

stoicfaux
5303
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 00:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
What's in it for the rest of the players in high-sec?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
21
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Posted - 2014.09.09 00:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:What's in it for the rest of the players in high-sec?
That you get to come run incursions! It's the biggest cooperative PvE activity in highsec, probably the most fun, and the isk/hour should be equal to, or even greater than, the solo PvE activities. |

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
10
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Posted - 2014.09.09 00:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:What's in it for the rest of the players in high-sec?
I would repeat this question only with a twist. What is in it for the 90% or so of high sec players that DO NOT run Incursions? Your proposal would simply extend the period of time that they cannot do the things they want to do. Or it forces them to ppick up and move to another system. If anything I say they need to shorten the duration of the average Incursion but increase the number of Incursions that are active at any given time. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9571
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 01:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why is this a problem? Sounds like player freedom being exercised to me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2566
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 01:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:stoicfaux wrote:What's in it for the rest of the players in high-sec?
That you get to come run incursions! It's the biggest cooperative PvE activity in highsec, probably the most fun, and the isk/hour should be equal to, or even greater than, the solo PvE activities.
It also has enough rancid drama to suffocate an elephant. Why do I want to associate with that?
Anyway, there's no such thing as completing the Kundalini site "early". Once it spawns, it's available for anyone to kill with no timetable attached. Killing it sooner rather than later just means that you don't get to farm it for a week and inconvenience the people who live there with your unchecked greed.
Other people knocking over your sandcastle. Emergent gameplay. Cry moar about it. You know, the way you tell the non-incursioners to cry moar about you taking your sweet time to farm every last ISK cent out of an incursion before ending it. |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2877
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 01:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Why should game mechanics be changed to settle a silly little slapfight between two toxic communities? |

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 01:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Incursions are the only real PvE content that requires social cooperation and the use of fleets. That's a lot more engaging than soloing missions or mining, and people who run incursions are a lot more likely to become enmeshed in the game and to keep subscribing. The current game mechanics (arbitrarily instituted) allow for any group of pilots to close the incursion within a few hours, for any reason, with minimal consequences. This makes the diplomatic avoidance of the that eventuality a nearly herculean task. And in fact such has been occuring (through multiple groups, and to the detriment of the vast majority of capsuleers, for months, and perhaps for years). It is also inconsistent with the existence of different stages of the the incursion (established, mobilized, and withdrawing - how does it make sense to be able to headshot the incursion 2 hours after being established?). To the extent that incursions can be made more compelling (and perhaps attract some of those 90 of pilots not running them) by a simple change in the mothership spawn timer (and indeed CCP recently cut the respawn times) that seems like a no-brainer. |

Absolutely Not Analt
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 01:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Team Edward! Team Jacob!
Wait..wrong ***** fight? Eve is a multi player game.-áAnd you are the content. - Ralph King-Griffin |

Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
275
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 07:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stop asking for a dev solution to a player-created problem which isn't really a problem. |

James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
85
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Posted - 2014.09.09 07:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Get ascendencies and move. Set up Jump freighters and run islands. Stop Xing up for the communities that run the moms. Build a lowsec incursion community. Stop believing everything the FCs tell you about the drama and dig into the actual history. So so many options. All of them player driven. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6071
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 07:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:For months (and longer) highsec incursions have been plagued by people completing the Kundalini site early. This forces everyone to move and allows one group of players to deny everyone else the ability to run sites together. The natural solution is to extend the time period during which the mothership cannot be destroyed (because it has not yet spawned).
I suggest that in HIGHSEC, and only in HIGHSEC -
The Kundalini site should not spawn until the incursion goes into withdraw (or at the very least until it is deeply into mobolized). This will allow pilots to stay longer at a single incursion site, and will not give any one group the ability to close down incursions early (as nearly all groups have done at one time or another).
I know I've been linking this a lot lately, but it is literally the only way to respond to this thread. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Gevlon Goblin fan.
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid Overload Everything
594
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Posted - 2014.09.09 07:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
I see no problem with the Incursion mechanics here, in fact they seem to be working as intended. This seems to be more about the ability to farm an Incursion to the maximum and the revenue that generates rather than any true concern about access.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6071
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 07:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seriously though, if this were to happen then incursion income would need to be nerfed again to balance it all out. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Gevlon Goblin fan.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
85
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Posted - 2014.09.09 07:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Seriously though, if this were to happen then incursion income would need to be nerfed again to balance it all out. Would be much nicer to make influence significant again. double or tripple the regen rate and increase the penalties by a quarter. Then when the work is actually done, the incursion meta-community has done something to earn the good farming. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2570
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 09:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
OP says: "The devs need to change the game mechanics because a group of players is popping the mothership and affecting how I want to play the game."
Compare to the usual "nerf ganking" post:
"The devs need to change the game mechanics because a group of players is popping my ship in highsec and affecting how I want to play the game."
See the difference? Neither do I. |

Absolutely Not Analt
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 13:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Use some of your Incursion Income and hire some mercs to kill off the people killing the Mom.
The mercs get opponents in a known place at a known time along with shiny loot drops and kill mails. The mom gets to hang out a while longer.
From what I remember of incursioning, you don't even need to really kill the DPS ships. Pop a few of their logis and the Sanshas will do the rest. Eve is a multi player game.-áAnd you are the content. - Ralph King-Griffin Being meh at two things is not better than being great at one. - Lugh Crow-Slave
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
310
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 16:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:For months (and longer) highsec incursions have been plagued by people completing the Kundalini site early. Early... "You keep using this word, I do not think it means what you think it means."
The reason highsec Incursions have (in the past) lasted for long enough that you are currently noticing a difference is entirely a player agreement not to complete. Prior to that agreement highsec Incursions cycled quickly and subsequent to that agreement's end highsec Incursions cycle quickly. There has been no change to the way Incursions work so either the communities will have to put their drama aside and allow Incursions to persist again, enabling newbros to join in, or Incursions will return to their "very high end/endgame content" status and very shiney contest fleets with pilots with hundreds of millions of SPs will have to duke it out over the spoils.
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
87
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Posted - 2014.09.09 16:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
So you want to force people like me who like to play solo to play in larger groups because of isk..? Wow... Just wow. |

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 17:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:So you want to force people like me who like to play solo to play in larger groups because of isk..? Wow... Just wow.
You would be better off with a few incursions lasting for 4-5 days than with new incursions constantly popping up lasting 1-2 days. For the former you can just relocate for few days, while the latter will constantly impede your activities. And Eve is meant to be a group game - solo play just isn't that compelling. |

Veronica Aeshyr
WALLTREIPERS The Initiative.
2
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Posted - 2014.09.09 18:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:This forces everyone to move and allows one group of players to deny everyone else the ability to run sites together
So a small group of people can annoy groups of players? remains me to the afk cloakers lol
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
88
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Posted - 2014.09.09 19:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Absolutely Not Analt wrote:Use some of your Incursion Income and hire some mercs to kill off the people killing the Mom.
The mercs get opponents in a known place at a known time along with shiny loot drops and kill mails. The mom gets to hang out a while longer.
From what I remember of incursioning, you don't even need to really kill the DPS ships. Pop a few of their logis and the Sanshas will do the rest.
Wait - is that the clarion trumpet call of emergent gameplay I hear? I really hope no one reads this. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 19:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Absolutely Not Analt wrote:Use some of your Incursion Income and hire some mercs to kill off the people killing the Mom.
The mercs get opponents in a known place at a known time along with shiny loot drops and kill mails. The mom gets to hang out a while longer.
From what I remember of incursioning, you don't even need to really kill the DPS ships. Pop a few of their logis and the Sanshas will do the rest.
Wait - is that the clarion trumpet call of emergent gameplay I hear? I really hope no one reads this.
You mean like this wildly successful idea? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4996865#post4996865
It turns out that the mercs/gankers have brains, and understand that they can make a lot more isk with a lot less effort hitting miners and haulers, who incidentally are unable to shoot back. So the incursion drama won't be solved through mercs/ganking...next idea please..... |

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
220
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 19:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Remove incursions from Highsec. You can run them in Lowsec and shoot each other with your spaceships instead of whining in the forums about it if there is a conflict between your two wow-rai.. I mean incursion groups. Problem solved... next thread please... the Code ALWAYS wins |

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 20:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Remove incursions from Highsec. You can run them in Lowsec and shoot each other with your spaceships instead of whining in the forums about it if there is a conflict between your two wow-rai.. I mean incursion groups. Problem solved... next thread please...
Incursions in lowsec have been a great success....not. No one runs them because its too dangerous to put a fleet of Battleships there (shoutout to PL). The only reasonable place to host cooperative PvE activities (especially ones that are open to new players) is in highsec. |

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
221
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 20:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Remove incursions from Highsec. You can run them in Lowsec and shoot each other with your spaceships instead of whining in the forums about it if there is a conflict between your two wow-rai.. I mean incursion groups. Problem solved... next thread please... Incursions in lowsec have been a great success....not. No one runs them because its too dangerous to put a fleet of Battleships there (shoutout to PL). The only reasonable place to host cooperative PvE activities (especially ones that are open to new players) is in highsec. No one runs them in Lowsec because you have so easy access in Highsec. Why would anyone risk his ship if he can do the same thing while not risking his ship? From all the money you make in this incursions you could easily replace your loss, so danger is not really an argument.
Incursions should be banned from Highsec, which would solve the very problem you where raising in the first place without some silly change. This would also balance the risk/reward problem incursions have. the Code ALWAYS wins |

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 20:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:[quote=Veers Belvar]
Incursions should be banned from Highsec, which would solve the very problem you where raising in the first place without some silly change. This would also balance the risk/reward problem incursions have.
No one runs them in lowsec because it would be crazy to have a 40 man battleship fleet in lowsec. You would be begging to get hotdropped and massacred. Incursions are occasionally run in sovereign null, but in a very careful fashion, with the entire fleet usually docking up if a hostile appears in local. To address that CCP has buffed the nullsec incursion awards, and we will see if that gets more participation. Obviously you need to be part of a major alliance to participate.
Highsec incursion runners would not go to lowsec if somehow highsec incursions ended. It would just mean the end of pretty much the only communal PvE activity in highsec. The risk/reward is not much different than competent people blitzing SOE L4's. CCP is already on record as being happy with incursions (rightfully in my mind), and if anything is looking for ways to get more people to run them as opposed to just soloing L4s, mining, etc... and is certainly not looking to remove them from highsec! |

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
1141
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 20:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with the above posters.
The Risk Vs. Reward of high-sec "incursions" is out of hand, and does nothing but generate more self-entitled players sucking at an ISK faucet while creating no actual conflict at all. Shooting red boxes does not count as conflict, and listening to a few incursion running groups cry at eachother over loot also fails to impress me.
Move it all to low/null, up the reward, and encourage more player on player violence for the win. |

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
1141
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 20:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:OP says: "The devs need to change the game mechanics because a group of players is popping the mothership and affecting how I want to play the game."
Compare to the usual "nerf ganking" post:
"The devs need to change the game mechanics because a group of players is popping my ship in highsec and affecting how I want to play the game."
See the difference? Neither do I.
And trust me, as one who has bothered trying - no matter how many well written and thoughtful responses you give, you will get no actual conversation beyond him repeating his point over and over, as if by number of times it is said somehow validity is added.
Don't like people getting in the way of your incursion thingie? Strap on some guns, hire some mercs, do something to stop them. Sounds like player conflict, which is best left to players - not throwing tears at CCP in hopes they will make changes.
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
310
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 20:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The only reasonable place to host cooperative PvE activities (especially ones that are open to new players) is in highsec. Again, before the agreement Incursions were not open to new players; they were treated as endgame content and the closest a new player could get to them was a Logi [4] Basilisk in Vanguards.
However... I seem to remember that the agreement was referenced in CCP's decision to nerf Vanguard income - so perhaps, now that Incursions are getting back to where they were before the agreement, they might consider increasing the site payouts again. |
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