Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ishida Akiko
Caldari The Carebear Club
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:26:00 -
[151]
Account buyers ftl.
--- Cool, now go away. |
Eximius Josari
Shadow Reavers
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:27:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Ishida Akiko Account buyers ftl.
Be a little more specific. Are you referring to yourself...or someone else?
Victory is the weakness of the enemy. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:28:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Ishida Akiko Account buyers ftl.
Be a little more specific. Are you referring to yourself...or someone else?
Or better yet... stay out of this thread. Probably one of the most off topic posts ever.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:30:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 03/08/2006 12:30:40
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire did support the missile changes. Minmatar could do more upgrading but IMHO their ships are quite versatile. Add versatility and decent CPU and nice grid size, you can really have some crazy ships though. That is the hard part in balancing Minmatar ships.
this is quite an interesting point...
but where you get versatility?
i think a common mistake is that a ship is versatile when its slot allocation is not focused on something particular.
even if to a degree is true you can't always apply this principle...
for example the phoon have a 4/4 missile/turret allocation, even if "looking at it" it could seem a versatile allocation actually it is not as the ship have 1 of the 2 armaments clearly better than the other and is built in a way to not be usefull in mid-long range.
so instead to have a versatility of role we have a ship that is basically usefull for ganking (and that requires tons of sps).
another bad example can be indeed the maelstorm this ship is probably going to have a shield bonus and again an 8/6/6 slot allocation can seem versatile but really is not.
to be effective probably it need to use at least 3-4 mid slots so what is left is not really enought to fit a decent shield tank (as both caldari and amarr ships will probably do)
you can go with an armor setup but you are going to waste 1 of your bonuses and have a ship too similar to a tempest (imo tempest will be better with armor tank)
to be really versatile a ship like that need a lot of mid slots, enought to fit the midslots necessary to have an efficent ship and then a good amount of exceeding slot to fit a good tank, ecm, eccm and so on...
this is imo versatility, is not a split allocation but to be able to have very different effective fittings or to be able to mix different kind of warfare taking good advantage of it.
|
Flaming sambuka
IDLE GUNS
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:32:00 -
[155]
Can i please have your stuff?
|
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:37:00 -
[156]
Jenny, while I appreciate what you're trying to do, you also don't fly Minmatar ships. I do, and I can tell you that the concerns being raised over the maelstrom are all valid. I fly Caldari and Minmatar primarily, but I can also fly Amarr and Gallente. Hell, I used to PvP in an armeggedon on occasion before I specialized my skills in Caldari and Minmatar - check the bottom of my bio ingame and you'll see a megapulse wrecking shot on another player.
In any case, since I have flown all races' battleships, I can say emphatically that the Minmatar concerns about the maelstrom's slot layout, bonuses, and role are, for the most part, quite valid. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
|
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:39:00 -
[157]
Minmatar are as versatile as Gallente or Caldari.
Vaga could be armour tanked for some wierd reason since you have to fill two resistance holes. Tempest could be shield tanked for some wierd reason since stacking penalties mean 6 lows aren't good for much. ermmmm Jag same as Vaga.
Ok, i'm out of versatile minmatar ships. Cyclone? Yeah lets ignore the bonus and armour tank it... wonder what would happen with a shield tanked BS. Remember that the Cyclone also took 1 extra slot from other BC's to make it balanced and it still doesn't typically use its bonus in PvP.
Domi and Raven are more versatile than any Minmatar ship. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
|
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:39:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Both the Abaddon and the Rohk gets 25% resistance vs all. Why cant the Maelstrom with its crappy dps and poor range? But maybe thats why Tux made it a shield tanker.. the 0% default EM resist. Die minmatar, die.
i was really thinking that you were aware of how easy it s to armor-tank em damage and what kind of damage lasers do.
just take a look at the base armor resists on amarrian ships and then take a look at the kind of damage our enemies (the minnies) do mostly with their weapons.
then have a look at base armor resists on minmatar ships and compare those to the kind of damage their enemies (amarrians) do mostly with their weapons.
we already have a hard time doing damage to armortanked minmatar ships if they add 1 thermic hardener. now if they want to go for a more general defense and fit an eanmII + dc tank we will do real crappy damage against them. sure if we do the same our resist for exp and kin go up as well but not to the levels you get for em-damage on a tanked minmatar ship. and from what i gathered here you think that an 80+ resistance to em-damage just doesnt cut it for minmatar battleship.
furthermore you said the abaddon was on top when it comes to ranged damage. if we want range we have to fit crystals that are even more em-heavy increasing the problem even further.
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:46:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
i was really thinking that you were aware of how easy it s to armor-tank em damage and what kind of damage lasers do.
just take a look at the base armor resists on amarrian ships and then take a look at the kind of damage our enemies (the minnies) do mostly with their weapons.
then have a look at base armor resists on minmatar ships and compare those to the kind of damage their enemies (amarrians) do mostly with their weapons.
Well, I am aware of those things. Currently flying minmatar and yes, despite having such high dps, your guns dont really hurt when I use a armor tank. I guess its designed that way for storyline reasons.
But minmatar have other holes in the armor instead. We all get the same amount of resists, just on different damage types. So while you might be having a hard time killing minmatar, you will have a easier time killing gallente. Its not really a reason to not give minmatar good resists vs all just because you fly amarr and want to be able to do more damage to that specific race. Or do you feel im wrong here?
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Dixon
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:47:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Serj Darek
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Stamm Artillery does not equal sniper. You don't need tracking mods or sensor boosters to use it. In addition, you can put these mods on your low slots, less effective, but they use less cap and CPU. That's really all I have to add.
You are right behind Dixon for idiot of the year award.
My thought exactly..
QFT
pwn - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other... |
|
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:48:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne what you wanted to say there was it will have the highest laser-dps. against an armortanked minmatar battelship it will already face 70% em resists without any tank on at all. add to that the eanmII+dc tank and it doesnt really look so bad for the minnies anymore. now you want to give them a 25% armor resist bonus on top of it? sure that sounds like a good idea.
also..there are some more lasers boats besides the geddon/abaddon. i assume you want those to just turn around and warp off when they come across your bs then.
you may have noticed that people are already complaining about the suckyness of em-damage without such a ship around.
So an Amarr ship gets its racial additional resists to explosive. The minmatar T2 damage type. 25% bonus to resistances would give 40% explosive I believe. If minmatar were to get a armour resistance bonus then applying that to 70% would give 77.5% an 7.5% increase where the amarr "anti minmatar damage type" resist gets 20% bonus.
It's a free EANM no matter what the starting resistance are, but its not just a flat 25% increase, you still get smaller effect the higher you go.
So saying we'd get even higher anti-amarr resistance, well yeah but amarr get a bigger anti-minmatar resistances increase than we get vs's amarr. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
|
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:56:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 03/08/2006 12:58:52 One of the things that consistently amuses me is how Amarr pilots keep saying that they can't beat an armor-tanked tempest because of resists. This is patently not true.
First, while the 'geddon's lasers might be inflicting reduced damage, they have a much higher DPS than autocannons do. I'd like to see a graph showing the effective DPS of 7 megapulse II with 2 heatsinks, multifrequency crystals, and 5 berserker II's against the standard tempest 2xEAMN II and 1xinternal force field damage control tank. At the same time, I'd like to see the tempest's DPS against an armaggedon with the same resistance modules and taking into account 6 dual 650 II's (can't fit 800's with an armor tank) with 1 gyrostab II (lowslots are 2 LAR, 2 EAMN II, 1 internal force field DCU, 1 grystoab II), EMP, and 3 berserker II's. I would not be at all surprised to find out that the DPS for each was similar, in the end, when counting resists from realistic fittings.
Naughty Boy, any chance you could graph this?
Second, I've found that the main reason 'geddon pilots lose vs. an AC tempest is simple: the lack of a webifier. I've found that when they hit, megapulses with heatsinks inflict enough damage per second more than autocannons to offset the resistance issues. If more 'geddon pilots would fit a web instead of a sensor booster, you'd see a lot more dead AC tempests. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
|
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:58:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Well, I am aware of those things. Currently flying minmatar and yes, despite having such high dps, your guns dont really hurt when I use a armor tank. I guess its designed that way for storyline reasons.
the strange part about that is that lasers are supposedly doing heavy damage and amarrians should be the ones boosting strong resistances as per storyline.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
But minmatar have other holes in the armor instead.
yes but those are holes which lasers cant reach. while the holes in amarrian resistances can very well be reached using projectiles.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Its not really a reason to not give minmatar good resists vs all just because you fly amarr and want to be able to do more damage to that specific race. Or do you feel im wrong here?
i do indeed want to be able to deal some reasonable damage to the race thats supposed to be our primary enemy. after all they can do the same to us.
also i dont want to prevent them from having good resists. they already got those. i just dont think they need to get even better.
and thats not even taking t2 ships into account where it gets really silly.
also i dont think the whole whinage about how poor em-damage is is directed at minmatars alone. eanm2 tanks work pretty much the same way on gallentean ships giving them good overal resistances and real good resistances against lasers. the difference for the minnies is jsut that they get even better em resists.
|
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:03:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Wrayeth
One of the things that consistently amuses me is how Amarr pilots keep saying that they can't beat an armor-tanked tempest because of resists. This is patently not true.
not talking about a tempest here btw. but about a 7 lowslot minmatar bs with a 25% armor resist bonus as proposed by Jim McGregor
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:04:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Wrayeth
One of the things that consistently amuses me is how Amarr pilots keep saying that they can't beat an armor-tanked tempest because of resists. This is patently not true.
not talking about a tempest here btw. but about a 7 lowslot minmatar bs with a 25% armor resist bonus as proposed by Jim McGregor
I dont think it will happen though. Besides, im going gallente for the battleship level so feel free to kick my ass. =)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:05:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
i was really thinking that you were aware of how easy it s to armor-tank em damage and what kind of damage lasers do.
just take a look at the base armor resists on amarrian ships and then take a look at the kind of damage our enemies (the minnies) do mostly with their weapons.
then have a look at base armor resists on minmatar ships and compare those to the kind of damage their enemies (amarrians) do mostly with their weapons.
we already have a hard time doing damage to armortanked minmatar ships if they add 1 thermic hardener. now if they want to go for a more general defense and fit an eanmII + dc tank we will do real crappy damage against them. sure if we do the same our resist for exp and kin go up as well but not to the levels you get for em-damage on a tanked minmatar ship. and from what i gathered here you think that an 80+ resistance to em-damage just doesnt cut it for minmatar battleship.
furthermore you said the abaddon was on top when it comes to ranged damage. if we want range we have to fit crystals that are even more em-heavy increasing the problem even further.
edit: i'm not against giving it the slots for an armortank ..but it really shouldnt get any bonuses for that.
yup the problem of amarr is not by the damage type itself, but by the fact that 2.7 race armor tank while the only real shield tanker race is caldari
also, as caldari where not exactly a popular race for pvp, the problem was even more evident in battles.
i think that actually with the introduction of these new BS, things should improve amarr, rokh will probably be very popular, eventually replacing the mega, and mael will compete with tempest for fleet alpha strike.
i expect to see the "new fleets" will be composed at least by a 50% of shield tanked ships making em damage more effective than now.
on the other hand i fear arty will lose a bit in popularity as shield tanks have good explo resist and its dps (vastly inferior to amarr) well be not good enought to keep it near other turret types.
|
Lucre
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:09:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Riho lol, the OP should chill out. those ships are not ingame even.... not even on the TEST server.
nobody knows the exactly how they will turn out.... time to panic and flame is when we can test them on test server. then u can acctually fly them and see how OP or crap they are.
Much as I sympathise with the "don't panic until you see them on Sisi" argument, CCP's history of fixing serious issues spotted and reported on the test server prior to release is not, alas, good. So expecting mere balance issues to have a chance to be corrected prior to patch release would seem a little on the optimistic side! And then once in game, changing it will be that much harder.
So, yes, from one perspective it makes little sense to fret now. But equally, now is probably the only chance we'll get to fret whilst the stats are still fluid.
|
Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:12:00 -
[168]
Mila, even though the absolute reduction in resistances would be lower, the relative would be greater:
500 DPS dealt to 25% = 375 DPS 500 DPS dealt to 40% = 300 DPS 25% less damage leaking through
500 DPS dealt to 70% = 150 DPS 500 DPS dealt to 77.5% = 112.5 DPS 33.3% less damage leaking through
Just something to consider when evaluating and comparing resistances. ---
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:26:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Testy Mctest the Maelstrom is a ******* big pile of absolute utter ****
The Maelstrom is fine, infact its overpowered.
Now how do YOU like em apples? Would the poster above me please stand up? |
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:31:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
The Maelstrom is fine, infact its overpowered.
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or a statement you truly believe.
If the former: LOL
If the latter, I'll just quote many, many people who've in the past said: "pics, or STFU". In other words, back up your claim, because a statement without proof has no value. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
|
|
Tassi
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:37:00 -
[171]
When I saw the bonus for the minnie tier3 bs I thought, WTF that will own with crystal set. But you shouldn't really compare ships with mega nber expensive stuff anyway.
A shield tanked AC tempest needs a dedicated tackler to be effective.
A tempest has 5 mids to do a shield tank an other needed stuff. If you are solo and want to shield tank your tempest you need at least 4 slots: booster, 2x invul field, 1x cap injector. So you end up with 1 slot for a scrambler. This is not nearly enough to do solo stuff at all.
And I don't see how it will be better with 6 midslots on the tier3 bs. It definitly needs 7 midslots. **** caldari, they are overpowered anyway.
Give it 7 mids and 3 lows whatever, as long as it has 7 mids.
BTW: You guys talking about amarr sniping would be sooo easy, we need 2x RCU t2's to be able to fit the guns and we need a cap injector to run them so STFU kthx.
|
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 14:10:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Jin Entres Mila, even though the absolute reduction in resistances would be lower, the relative would be greater:
500 DPS dealt to 25% = 375 DPS 500 DPS dealt to 40% = 300 DPS 25% less damage leaking through
500 DPS dealt to 70% = 150 DPS 500 DPS dealt to 77.5% = 112.5 DPS 33.3% less damage leaking through
Just something to consider when evaluating and comparing resistances.
Strange. A smaller increase when in the higher ranges of percentages have greater effect than large changes lower in the range. /me pulls out the old statistics book from college. Ok got it now, ta for heads up. Now I totally understand why people pay stupid ammounts for 2% more resistances.
Still I assume the HP advantage Amarr have over Minmatar ships would cover that 8.3% difference. If Amarr is 6000hp and Minmatar had 5000hp thats 20% more hp. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
|
Kalimari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 15:39:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Jin Entres Mila, even though the absolute reduction in resistances would be lower, the relative would be greater:
500 DPS dealt to 25% = 375 DPS 500 DPS dealt to 40% = 300 DPS 25% less damage leaking through
500 DPS dealt to 70% = 150 DPS 500 DPS dealt to 77.5% = 112.5 DPS 33.3% less damage leaking through
Just something to consider when evaluating and comparing resistances.
I see what you've done there, but your numbers are the wrong way round, it should be 20% and 25% respectively as:
300 = 80% of 375 and 112.5 = 75% of 150
Still it's an interesting point, but I'd rather have shield resists anyway.
|
Sewell
Minmatar East Wind Inc
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 15:55:00 -
[174]
I stuck to minmatar ships for almost three years, all the time believeing that one day the devs would actually make their mind up on what Minmatar ships are supposed to be about, and then let us be good at that. I gave up and started to train Gallente a few months ago. Never looked back.
(Sleipnir is good though :)
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange ľons, even death may die. |
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 16:31:00 -
[175]
We could ask what happened to the Breacher. We could ask what Tux sekseh plans for the Bellicose are. We could try to find any new information in the DevBlog.
Distance to design stop: 6 months: ah, awfully lot of time. Let's play that new trading card game. 3 months: Okay, let's start with Caldari. I have a couple of cool ideas for BS and BC. 2 months: Okay, next stop Gallente. That one idea tat didn't fit the Caldari. 1.5 months: Holiday 2 weeks: Yawns. Oh. Design stop and I am short 2x2 ships, and testing isn't done at all. Okay, Amar will get the same as always. Minmatar get a rough draft that certainly wont unbalance the existing stuff and a promise that someone will have a look at the issue later. --*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 17:14:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Theyre bs's are finally balanced-ish finally then CCP hands them theyre new pile of **** battleship that was quite possibly designed on scrapheap challenge
Alliaanna
WTF...
If the ship was desinged on the TM forums we'd have a ship that didn't have a DEV appointed, self defeating role. TUX's prelim ship stat/ship role is quite possibly the worst idea since the Projectile Optimal Range bonus on the Typhoon in 2004 and the 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level on the minmatar carrier and motherships.
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
|
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 17:15:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Wrayeth I'd like to see a graph showing the effective DPS of 7 megapulse II with 2 heatsinks, multifrequency crystals, and 5 berserker II's against the standard tempest 2xEAMN II and 1xinternal force field damage control tank. At the same time, I'd like to see the tempest's DPS against an armaggedon with the same resistance modules and taking into account 6 dual 650 II's (can't fit 800's with an armor tank) with 1 gyrostab II (lowslots are 2 LAR, 2 EAMN II, 1 internal force field DCU, 1 grystoab II), EMP, and 3 berserker II's.
NB.
|
Spartan239
Caldari Regeneration Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 17:18:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Theyre bs's are finally balanced-ish finally then CCP hands them theyre new pile of **** battleship that was quite possibly designed on scrapheap challenge
Alliaanna
WTF...
If the ship was desinged on the TM forums we'd have a ship that didn't have a DEV appointed, self defeating role. TUX's prelim ship stat/ship role is quite possibly the worst idea since the Projectile Optimal Range bonus on the Typhoon in 2004 and the 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level on the minmatar carrier and motherships.
Its a tv show teams make a vechile out of stuff they find in a scarpyard
|
Mr Bright
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 17:22:00 -
[179]
Just realized that even with a 7.5% tracking bonus on the maelstorm, any fitted 1400mm would still track worse than a tachyon...
I still think if they really intend to push the maelstorm as a artillery boat, and have it outranged by most ships it would be an idea to give it a tracking bonus - it would even benefit if you used autocannons.
|
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 17:26:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Theyre bs's are finally balanced-ish finally then CCP hands them theyre new pile of **** battleship that was quite possibly designed on scrapheap challenge
Alliaanna
WTF...
If the ship was desinged on the TM forums we'd have a ship that didn't have a DEV appointed, self defeating role. TUX's prelim ship stat/ship role is quite possibly the worst idea since the Projectile Optimal Range bonus on the Typhoon in 2004 and the 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level on the minmatar carrier and motherships.
Its a tv show teams make a vechile out of stuff they find in a scarpyard
that show sux
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |