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KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:39:00 - [121] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Eximius Josari Is it anything like droning on endlessly about why Maelstrom doesn't need this and that through assumptions? Not that I am the one who is typing 3000 characters to change assumptions to facts. Look at the forums and you can see who whine the most. 1. Minmatar 2. Amarr 3. Gallente/Caldari Doubt I am wrong though. this isn't a contest about who whines more. Go require more attention elsewhere SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:39:00 - [122] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Eximius Josari Is it anything like droning on endlessly about why Maelstrom doesn't need this and that through assumptions? Not that I am the one who is typing 3000 characters to change assumptions to facts. Look at the forums and you can see who whine the most. 1. Minmatar 2. Amarr 3. Gallente/Caldari Doubt I am wrong though. Maybe because SOME of our ships are *** ? And yours are "fine"?
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:40:00 - [123] Originally by: Aloysius Knight just f1 f2 f2 etc and watch your sheild tank See, Caldari are SO BROKEN that they can afford to turn their second gun OFF in combat! Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:42:00 - [124] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Eximius Josari Is it anything like droning on endlessly about why Maelstrom doesn't need this and that through assumptions? Not that I am the one who is typing 3000 characters to change assumptions to facts. Look at the forums and you can see who whine the most. 1. Minmatar 2. Amarr 3. Gallente/Caldari Doubt I am wrong though. this isn't a contest about who whines more. Go require more attention elsewhere Hey, dont get me wrong. I am pro Minmatar more than pro Caldari. I just dont like to show my Minmatarness. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:42:00 - [125] Problem is thats all to common to see stats that are said to be "placefolders" actually hit far closer to the actual design that anyone could have feared. No minmatar pilot wants to get a gimped ship and then wait 3 years for a fix. So yes, we do give it our best to get a good BS out the door that is balanced across all 4 races. So far all we have seen is caldari get handed the ultra range sniper and gallente getting the fastest BS. Amaar is getting more of the same, mostly because the race doesn't really have a variaty in their ship lineup so any change would require a "new" bonus. lastly, as usual, we have minmatar, getting a ship that got a bonus that by tux's own admission would be so bad that they actually changed it on the caldari ships that had it. To be honest thats not comforting at all. The one reason I dont call it quits and just go caldari as every other clone out there, is that I hope that maybe someday we will get a little dev-love thrown our way. Sadly as more of the playerbase fly caldari, the chance of them actually getting reigned back a bit diminishes. yes, I am quite frustrated about it all.
Eximius Josari Shadow Reavers	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:42:00 - [126] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Eximius Josari Is it anything like droning on endlessly about why Maelstrom doesn't need this and that through assumptions? Not that I am the one who is typing 3000 characters to change assumptions to facts. Look at the forums and you can see who whine the most. 1. Minmatar 2. Amarr 3. Gallente/Caldari Doubt I am wrong though. I don't whine, I discuss. I do however think the concept that Caldari should have a monopoly on midslots is amusing at best. How come the Gallente can have as many lows as Amarr, but Minmatar can never have as many mids as Caldari? Or Jove forbid...more? Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
Mike Yagon Minmatar The Phoenix Legionaires	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:43:00 - [127] I considered using it to do missions in, but due to its bonuses it will never be able to perform like my tempest. It's DPS would be less due to me still fitting 6 turrets and 2 tractorbeams. (Like on my tempest) and it's tank would be pointless because my Tempest is not tanked either. I need tracking computers even when mission running. The only time I would use the Maelstrom is for when I'd get into a deadspace mission where they aggro right away and you need the tank to stay alive. But those situations are in Deadspace, so no MWDing to range, I'd fit it with ACs in that scenario. I fail to see the use of tanking a sniper setup in missions. Either you have the range (Through tracking comp. and Sensor Boosters) and you don't get shot, or you fit ACs and a tank. An active shield tanked artillery ship is kind of useless, especially if it lacks the mid-slots to do either well. I'd very much prefer the same bonus as the Abaddon but then for shields. That would actually make it pretty useful, as my passive shield tank would be enhanced instead. Seeing how it's generally understood to be a slow ship, (especially for minmatar ships) I doubt it can replace my Tempest in no-aggro-on-warpin missions either because I can't get the speed to build up the range required for Artillery to hit anything. I know that when the Tier3s were designed they were made especially with the "They wont replace the Tier 1 and 2s" in mind, but it would be silly if they wont be piloted at all. ------ In Carebear We Trust
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:44:00 - [128] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Aloysius Knight just f1 f2 f2 etc and watch your sheild tank See, Caldari are SO BROKEN that they can afford to turn their second gun OFF in combat! TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Arngorf Minmatar devastation mining inc Hell Hounds	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:46:00 - [129] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Eximius Josari Is it anything like droning on endlessly about why Maelstrom doesn't need this and that through assumptions? Not that I am the one who is typing 3000 characters to change assumptions to facts. Look at the forums and you can see who whine the most. 1. Minmatar 2. Amarr 3. Gallente/Caldari Doubt I am wrong though. U hurt my feelings... waaaaaa IF your right, I see two pssible reasons 1) Minmatar players are as a definition, more whining.. because they're minmatar.. 2) Minmatar players are whining because they have something to whine about.. Ill go with number 2 but again.. I have a hard time admitting my own mistakes.. ________________________________________________ FORMER!!! I said FORMER Pirate...
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:47:00 - [130] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Aloysius Knight just f1 f2 f2 etc and watch your sheild tank See, Caldari are SO BROKEN that they can afford to turn their second gun OFF in combat! A Minmatar and his duct tape keyboard. Pushing blame to Caldari. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:48:00 - [131] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Aloysius Knight just f1 f2 f2 etc and watch your sheild tank See, Caldari are SO BROKEN that they can afford to turn their second gun OFF in combat! A Minmatar and his duct tape keyboard. Pushing blame to Caldari. You almost have an entire page of this thread discussing your flamebait post now...I really dont see why you must do things like this. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:52:00 - [132] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 03/08/2006 11:54:41 Originally by: Jim McGregor You almost have an entire page of this thread discussing your flamebait post now...I really dont see why you must do things like this. IMHO, I dont really see this as flamebait. I dont think I am provoking anybody and calling names here and there. I was only replying the threads. If you consider what I have written as flames then all of your new posts about Minmatar stuffs in the forums are really spams. Not that we all need more Minmatar threads discussing the same thing for an entire topic page. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:54:00 - [133] And don¦t forget that the ship will probably not have the PG to fit 1400T2 now that will be amusing to say the least. I still can¦t grasp why do we need another BS to fleet battles,i would rather have a big bellicose ,I propose: - 5% bonus to target painter range and 20% bonus to target painter optimal range per level. A 4/8/8 slot layout ,lets face it we will not kill *** with this ship so we could tank shield and armor tank at the same time .
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:55:00 - [134] Sorry Jenny but NO, Caldari are by far the greatest whiners in Eve. Remember missile nerf (boost).... Nothing in the last 2 years will beat that for whining ! And more to the point, this is a Minnie thread !!! And to be fair minnies have a lot to whine about, they have allways been the underdog race since I joined the game. Theyre bs's are finally balanced-ish finally then CCP hands them theyre new pile of ** battleship that was quite possibly designed on scrapheap challenge Alliaanna** Official Spokestard of=-= Does Not Compute =-=
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:57:00 - [135] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire IMHO, I dont really see this as flamebait. I dont think I am provoking anybody and calling names here and there. I was only replying the threads. If you consider what I wrote as flames then all of your new posts about Minmatar stuffs in the forums are really spams. Not that we all need more Minmatar threads discussing the same thing for an entire topic page. You jump into every minmatar thread with useless posts like "stop pre-emptive whining" or "balance is fine", giving no reasons at all, and you dont think its provocative for the people who has specialized in minmatar and should know what they are talking about? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:58:00 - [136] Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/08/2006 11:59:06 I think part of the problem here is that Caldari happen to be the race that counters Minmatar best. Just like Amarr are great at shield raping and Gallente are well, great at everything. Our weapon system counters speed well and we can tank explosive damage with the best of them. All the posts on these forums complain and moan in the hope that CCP are going to balance every race until the differences between them are indistinguishable. Something in our heads tells us this is right but when we actually stop and think about it for a minute its the worst thing that could possibly happen to this game. I think we should just try and enjoy what makes us different more tbh and if you're incapable of this then stop being so stubborn and train for the race you think is the win button. ps. NERF GALLENTE!!!!1
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:00:00 - [137] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 03/08/2006 12:01:01 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Sorry Jenny but NO, Caldari are by far the greatest whiners in Eve. Remember missile nerf (boost).... Nothing in the last 2 years will beat that for whining ! I did support the missile changes. Minmatar could do more upgrading but IMHO their ships are quite versatile. Add versatility and decent CPU and nice grid size, you can really have some crazy ships though. That is the hard part in balancing Minmatar ships. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Eximius Josari Shadow Reavers	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:01:00 - [138] The whole speed advantage thing is so not relevant on 90% of our ships it isn't even worth mentioning. We don't even have the fastest interceptor... Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:01:00 - [139] Originally by: Jim McGregor I think 8/5/7 is better. Plates, damage mods, hardeners in the lows, tracking computers and sensor boosters in the mediums. Bonuses: 25% armor resists, 25% damage how about not. i dont think the minnies really need an armortanking bs with more than 70% em resistance to start with.
Mike Yagon Minmatar The Phoenix Legionaires	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:01:00 - [140] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii ... that was quite possibly designed on scrapheap challenge As an unofficial self-appointed representative of Scrapheap Challenge I resent that statement and claim we actually came up with something decent! ------ In Carebear We Trust

Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:01:00 - [141] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/08/2006 11:59:06 I think part of the problem here is that Caldari happen to be the race that counters Minmatar best. Just like Amarr are great at shield raping and Gallente are well, great at everything. Our weapon system counters speed well and we can tank explosive damage with the best of them. All the posts on these forums complain and moan in the hope that CCP are going to balance every race until the differences between them are indistinguishable. Something in our heads tells us this is right but when we actually stop and think about it for a minute its the worst thing that could possibly happen to this game. I think we should just try and enjoy what makes us different more tbh and if you're incapable of this then stop being so stubborn and train for the race you think is the win button. ps. NERF GALLENTE!!!!1 I dont want everything to be the same. I want the ships we have and are getting to be usable and fun to fly. Absolutely useless != fun, imho. Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Shi Mun Caldari Aurora Development Corp	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:03:00 - [142] Why not change the concept of the mael and make it into an AC boat and tweak the tempest to make it a better arty boat. The the minnies get a battleship for each role with a confused phoon in between IMO i think it would be better if it was changed into an AC boat with a tanking bonus. Up its speed and agility, reduce mass (possibly lower its armour and hull hp as a down side?). Give it a falloff bonus and keep the shield bonus, a large cargo hold too and make it 8/7/5. Minnies have the fleet ship (pest) and now have a decent solo ship that should give the hyperion a run for its money. --------------------------- My EW suggestions:- EW suggestions
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:05:00 - [143] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Jim McGregor I think 8/5/7 is better. Plates, damage mods, hardeners in the lows, tracking computers and sensor boosters in the mediums. Bonuses: 25% armor resists, 25% damage how about not. i dont think the minnies really need an armortanking bs with more than 70% em resistance to start with. Really? Have you compared the dps between the Abaddon and the Maelstrom too? Abaddon will become the highest dps range ship in the game, while the cap last. So yes, I think minmatar needs armor resistance to stand a frigging chance at all. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Eximius Josari Shadow Reavers	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:05:00 - [144] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 03/08/2006 12:01:01 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Sorry Jenny but NO, Caldari are by far the greatest whiners in Eve. Remember missile nerf (boost).... Nothing in the last 2 years will beat that for whining ! I did support the missile changes. Minmatar could do more upgrading but IMHO their ships are quite versatile. Add versatility and decent CPU and nice grid size, you can really have some crazy ships though. That is the hard part in balancing Minmatar ships. The problem is that Specialization more often then not kicks Versatile in the groin, in Eve anyway. Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:13:00 - [145] Originally by: Jim McGregor But like you say, I dont think medium range is very hot in this game... :/ Blame T2 ammos TBH. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:15:00 - [146] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Jim McGregor But like you say, I dont think medium range is very hot in this game... :/ Blame T2 ammos TBH. Yeah. I actually like your suggestion about t1 ammo + "special effects", but I dont think ccp will do something about it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:18:00 - [147] Originally by: Jim McGregor Really? Have you compared the dps between the Abaddon and the Maelstrom too? Abaddon will become the highest dps range ship in the game, while the cap last. So yes, I think minmatar needs armor resistance to stand a frigging chance at all. what you wanted to say there was it will have the highest laser-dps. against an armortanked minmatar battelship it will already face 70% em resists without any tank on at all. add to that the eanmII+dc tank and it doesnt really look so bad for the minnies anymore. now you want to give them a 25% armor resist bonus on top of it? sure that sounds like a good idea. also..there are some more lasers boats besides the geddon/abaddon. i assume you want those to just turn around and warp off when they come across your bs then. you may have noticed that people are already complaining about the suckyness of em-damage without such a ship around.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:18:00 - [148] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Jim McGregor But like you say, I dont think medium range is very hot in this game... :/ Blame T2 ammos TBH. Yeah. I actually like your suggestion about t1 ammo + "special effects", but I dont think ccp will do something about it. Then balance ships on ideas based on T1 ammos. T2 ammos are broken and will one day be fixed. If you balance ships with T2 ammos and when T2 ammos are fixed, more fixes need to be done instead of a few. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
Stamm Amarr GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:25:00 - [149] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Stamm So all those guys flaming me? What you really mean is you don't want a ship that operates at 50KM in battles. That's understandable. I don't think the game is currently working right for that to be a worthwhile range. In close and personal is great, lots of damage. 180KM with T2 ammo is great, not quite the same damage, but still doing lots of it. 50KM doesn't do anywhere near the close in damage (because you're not using close in weapons) and it doesn't do enough compared to 180KM to make it worth it. Even megapulses work great at 50KM with scorch, and really that's unfair and makes beams/rails/artillery suck. For example have a look at megapulse with scorch compared to megabeam with gleam. Similar damage, the pulse has longer range and less penalties. I'm no Matari T2 ammo expert, but it's similar for you guys. Bingo. The whole problem is that the entire concept of the Maelstrom is completely redundant to begin with. But only because of T2 ammo. Megapulses for example right now are the weapon of choice for anything but long range, for the reasons I've said - scorch ammo. But without that scorch ammo, or if it did significantly less damage than beams at that range to the point where you wouldn't fit to use scorch, but you'd take it with you in case you got stuck 40Km from your target and had no choice then midrange ships can be useful again. As it stands just now when you engage a hostile fleet, and by fleet I'm not meaning blob, you warp to a gate, or a station, or a POS, or your covert ops or another pilot at 15KM. Generally you land between 20-60KM from your targets. Close range weapons - blasters/autos/pulses should require you to get in your optimal and start firing. They should require you to subject yourself to close range scrambling, webs and all sorts of nasty stuff. In comparison longer range weapons - beams, artillery, rails should mean you warp in and start firing. Less damage, but no need to get in range. When T2 ammo is fixed, this will be the case again.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:25:00 - [150] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Jim McGregor Really? Have you compared the dps between the Abaddon and the Maelstrom too? Abaddon will become the highest dps range ship in the game, while the cap last. So yes, I think minmatar needs armor resistance to stand a frigging chance at all. what you wanted to say there was it will have the highest laser-dps. against an armortanked minmatar battelship it will already face 70% em resists without any tank on at all. add to that the eanmII+dc tank and it doesnt really look so bad for the minnies anymore. now you want to give them a 25% armor resist bonus on top of it? sure that sounds like a good idea. also..there are some more lasers boats besides the geddon/abaddon. i assume you want those to just turn around and warp off when they come across your bs then. you may have noticed that people are already complaining about the suckyness of em-damage without such a ship around. Both the Abaddon and the Rohk gets 25% resistance vs all. Why cant the Maelstrom with its crappy dps and poor range? But maybe thats why Tux made it a shield tanker.. the 0% default EM resist. Die minmatar, die. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate



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