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Tas Devil JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.08.16 23:25:00 - [31] Edited by: Tas Devil on 16/08/2006 23:27:39 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:22:06 Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:21:40 OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... team work is fun if its not necessary to accomplish every simgle action in eve ... its good if its a requirement to eprfrom some actions properly... but if it becomes a requirement to do just about anything it becomes tidious... Besides team work or not ...finding people will become close to impossible for your average playing timeframe... only those able to spend 6 hrs on the PC at a time looking at gates for hours straight will be rewraded in their hunts...and how bloody boring is that ??? P.S. : I don't know why I even bothered replying to you... you normally contribute constructively to the eve community but that comment is nothing more then trolling and sensationalism The best Laugh ever ... Credit goes to Killer8 for this ! Oh and apparently the mods tell me there is bad language on his site so beware kids :)
Tribunal Darkblade Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.16 23:36:00 - [32] Local isn't getting nerfed, so this entire thread is moot. One person post something that is incorrect and we suddenly have 10 threads pop up about the subject. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
Infinity Ziona Space Elves of Ragnoroth	Posted - 2006.08.16 23:45:00 - [33] I refuse to post in another local thread... Dammit! Infinity Ziona 'The alliance should not be a solo contentmobile' - Albert Einstein
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.08.16 23:45:00 - [34] It's Not Going To Happen (ok, so It might get changed but it's completly ridiculous that it would be REMOVED).
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.16 23:46:00 - [35] Originally by: Vincent Gaines anyway, if you want to play without local, minimize it for a couple days. I bet 100 ISK you'll open it up within a couple hours at most. While we are at it, why not make an other bet! Try flying your BS into combat with miners instead of offensive weapons for a week, I bet 100 ISK that you would swap to guns again after a couple of losses. You could ask the same question again like this. anyway, if you want to play without local, make CCP remove it for a couple of days. (I would hope on a system where you aint visible until you type though) then you can argue. stating that I should play with a handicap while everyone else uses this mighty feature is not a valid argument, and would not show us how it would work. Originally by: Joshua Foiritain OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, ... but I thought it was a single player game ___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile.
Neon Genesis Gallente Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2006.08.17 00:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Vincent Gaines Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:22:06 Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:21:40 OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, ... why do people insist on screwing up the boards like this? anyway, if you want to play without local, minimize it for a couple days. I bet 100 ISK you'll open it up within a couple hours at most. .... ...... Yes, because everyone else but you would be able to use it..... WTS Brain.
Alkeena	Posted - 2006.08.17 01:18:00 - [37] I've personally been somewhat on the fence on this issue as I can honestly see the merit on both sides of the argument. For those that are intent on its removal though how would you resolve the following issue in a reasonable fashion: Say you're operating in enemy, or even simply contested territory, in a system with a fair number of POS. At these POS sit a fair number of ships, naturally. You, a Ninja Miner, NPCer, Ganker, whatever enter the system and start trolling the belts. Being the cautious sort you scan around and locates all these ships sitting at a POS. Being even more cautious you decide to eject from your ship and check the POS out in your pod, to make sure all the ships you see on your scanner there are in fact pilotless. After confirming this you're confident in ignoring those ships on your scanner and carrying on with your business. You set up scouts, proximity drones, whatever solution you want at the gates, and are constantly vigilant with your scanner--scanning every 30 seconds or so ( good God the pain ). Seeing nothing new each time you happilly continue on with your business. Suddenly, a new, unexpected, hostile just appeared in the belt you were operating out of, scrams you, and brutally murders you and your crew. Where in God's name did HE come from? Answer? He logged off in his pod at the POS, logged in, and immediately jumped in one of the ships you'd marked as empty earlier and has set about liesurely scanning down your position. By removing local you've just introduced a brand new form of logon trap. Lord knows how we all love those. Even if the above is somehow obviated by some means, the simple fact that I have to physically check every POS or abandoned ship I might find on scanners is not a task I particularly relish the thought of. ~Alkeena
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Karunel Local must die, at least in 0.0. And surprizingly, local is in fact already removed... in Empire! You can't check all dudes in a 100 people system, so it's the world upside down ^^ ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Ms Muneca AYDS	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:17:00 - [39] down with teamwork ---------- ---------- ----------
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:26:00 - [40] 1.0 - 0.5 Local stays the way it is... 0.4 - 0.1 When you speak, you show up in local and stay shown until you jump... 0.0 - When you speak, you're name shows in the chatbox, but there is no list of pilots in space, it's always 0. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:43:00 - [41] Edited by: Plutoinum on 17/08/2006 02:45:50 I expect that we get something else, not just hammering the system scanner non-stop and also that we get the info of someone logging in somehow, because CCP thinks themselves that login traps are lame. They just allow it, because it's too difficult to police. System scanning is going to change anyway, so they will take care of that. Think the server wouldn't be very happy either, if thousands of players hammered the system scanner now.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:45:00 - [42] lose local... lose bookmarks... play happy.
eLLioTT wave Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.17 03:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Maya Rkell Yep. And you'll very quickly herd most of Eve's population elsewhere too! Danton Marcellus, then what point holding particular pieces of 0.0? Soo double sided. Please stop trying to tell everyone what they'll do if CCP does something. You AREN'T the majority of the eve playerbase, nor do you represent them. You are ONE SINGLE PLAYER (even if you have alts). If you are unhappy about something that is being discussed please only comment on your own actions and reactions and stop trying to fear-munger. Lot's of players have threatened to quit/change their playstyle because of something CCP have planned to bring in, the majority of them (that i have seen) are still playing today. CCP will very quickly herd most of Eve's population elsewhere? I would put much isk that you know very little of eve's population, probably less than 1%. How can you comment on what even these 1% will do? Have you spoken to all the people you know in game and they are all unanimous on the subject? Please people stop spamming the "don't do it or i'll quit and so will the rest of my alliance and everyone else they know" (Maya i'm not saying this is what you're doing right now, but it is what some people do on these forums) With regards to a local change: whatever CCP do it will not be without great amounts of discussion and planning. Local (according to some of the developers) is not being used as it was intended, therefore we can expect that they ARE in discussion about what can be done to change it. Let's all stop worrying that they will screw us over and be positive about it. Put your own ideas down, comment (not flame) other's ideas. Work on balancing it for everyone. CCP read what we say and listen to our ideas.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.17 03:28:00 - [44] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:22:06 Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:21:40 OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... If by teamwork you mean somehow convincing 3 or 4 of your friends to sit on a gate for a few hours just to yell if someone jumps in... The new BFG.
Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.17 03:48:00 - [45] Originally by: Xelios Originally by: Joshua Foiritain TEAMWORK If by teamwork you mean somehow convincing 3 or 4 of your friends to sit on a gate for a few hours just to yell if someone jumps in... That's it exactly. With no more local you'd have to have people sit at gates hours on end doing nothing, or have people spamming the scanner constantly to keep up even the same amount of intel you can get from local now. Pirates on the other hand would simply need to fly belt to belt to find their targets, the exact same thing they have to do now. So nothing changes for pirates really while everyone else needs to have half their "team" waste away the hours. No wonder pirates want this change. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| CCG Card Lookup
FarScape III	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:15:00 - [46] I just think having local is more fun to get people talking and just having an easy way to get with people and it is just fun.
FarScape III	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:23:00 - [47] Originally by: Bhaal 1.0 - 0.5 Local stays the way it is... 0.4 - 0.1 When you speak, you show up in local and stay shown until you jump... 0.0 - When you speak, you're name shows in the chatbox, but there is no list of pilots in space, it's always 0. Oh good so then 0.0 becomes even more quit then it is, why is that fun? No one will talk if it means they will be noticed by someone who can kill them when being quit means they won't be seen. Why don't you want to have it just stay a big fun party like it is? Local is just a way to show we have the tecknology to see who is in the area, so big deal. It's fun and promotes people interecting and talking like a game should be.
DuckM4n Vo	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:23:00 - [48] Look at it from the other side? Pirates cant find the miners/ratters either. It works both ways!
Firane Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:38:00 - [49] Originally by: DuckM4n Vo Look at it from the other side? Pirates cant find the miners/ratters either. It works both ways! The thing about it is the pirates would have an unfair advantage - knowledge of true security aka highly traveled systems. -----------
eLLioTT wave Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:41:00 - [50] Originally by: Kylania Originally by: Xelios Originally by: Joshua Foiritain TEAMWORK If by teamwork you mean somehow convincing 3 or 4 of your friends to sit on a gate for a few hours just to yell if someone jumps in... That's it exactly. With no more local you'd have to have people sit at gates hours on end doing nothing, or have people spamming the scanner constantly to keep up even the same amount of intel you can get from local now. Pirates on the other hand would simply need to fly belt to belt to find their targets, the exact same thing they have to do now. So nothing changes for pirates really while everyone else needs to have half their "team" waste away the hours. No wonder pirates want this change. I disagree, it will be very hard to convince people to be scouts for extended periods of time. Instead i think you will find more people requiring escorts in low sec (either from their corp or hired help), OR people will fly less expensive ships capable of defending themselves. Either option will be good for eve. A need for paid escorts brings about more opportunities for pvp'ers.
Ectus	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:16:00 - [51] Needing escorts? Sounds like even further encouragement to only fly in ginormous blobs. Yay. :-(
Herring Pimpology Pimpology in Mining Player	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:35:00 - [52] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Remove local. Remove ship loss, average ppl in map, etc. Let the hunt begins. Let us mine the asteroid belts around a planet or something, that are actually >1000km or more in diameter, and I'd say hell ya, I agree with the girl, game on. Static belts with a mineable radius of less than 100km with no way to check local favors the attacker so much that it'll drive more people out of 0.0. Fix them Wishing for better mining ships in a system near you.
eLLioTT wave Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Ectus Needing escorts? Sounds like even further encouragement to only fly in ginormous blobs. Yay. :-( I don't think so. I think blobs are an arms race. "they have 10 more than us in local lets get 15 more before we engage." "they brought 15 more in lets get 20 more.." = blob. I think the order of the patch would be wolf packs, frigates and cruisers, mobile, fast, able to run or chase just as easily. It will be more fun for a big corp to split up into small packs and increase their chances of any of them running into targets, rather than blobbing and heading to the systems their scouts have found high numbers in local for.
Vincent Gaines	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:56:00 - [54] Originally by: arbitrary Originally by: Vincent Gaines anyway, if you want to play without local, minimize it for a couple days. I bet 100 ISK you'll open it up within a couple hours at most. While we are at it, why not make an other bet! Try flying your BS into combat with miners instead of offensive weapons for a week, I bet 100 ISK that you would swap to guns again after a couple of losses. You could ask the same question again like this. anyway, if you want to play without local, make CCP remove it for a couple of days. (I would hope on a system where you aint visible until you type though) then you can argue. stating that I should play with a handicap while everyone else uses this mighty feature is not a valid argument, and would not show us how it would work. Originally by: Joshua Foiritain OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, ... but I thought it was a single player game The point of what I stated wasn't to show that another player would have an advantage, of course that would be it. what I am saying is that in 0.0 it's unlikely YOU (generic you, meaning everyone) could withstand not having local, at least with the current "exploits" and scanning options.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:56:00 - [55] Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 17/08/2006 05:56:03 Oh look, this conversation again Wasnt the general consensus before:- Local in hi-sec empire stays the same Local in Low-sec empire switches over to constellation local Local in 0.0 vanishes, with the ability for people to setup easly locateable and destroyable structures to simulate it.... ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Dukath	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:56:00 - [56] Why does everyone and their dog insist on always going for the best belts and ignoring the rest? Sure you might miss 10% efficiency in ratting or mining, but on the other hand 99% of the people hunting you would miss you too. Remove local and in stead of only going to the best systems, take a slightly worse system and play happily without problems. With local and the map feature using a slightly worse system has the same risk as the top notch system yet gives less income. With local removed the risk in lower end systems gets reduced by a massive amount. Thus opening up 0.0 for a lot more people who are not as greedy as most posters here seem to be.
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.17 06:00:00 - [57] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: The Wizz117 it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself) I can't think of any scenario where those problems can't be solved by having people watch the gates. Enlighten me, please... Sitting and watching a gate is not fun. Basically, you're saying that you have to have someone sitting at the gate bored out of their mind and watching for hostiles while everyone else makes ISK, plex-****s, or what have you. It won't fly, man. Anything that makes the game LESS fun is inherently bad game design. What, use an alt? Not everyone has a second account - I know I don't. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing* to this thread!"
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Two Brothers Mining Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.17 06:10:00 - [58] Doh, not again. All benefits to hunters, no benefits to others. In 0.0, it is VERY obvious where mining ops will be, and very obvious where ratters will be. So, how does removing LOCAL benefit to anyone except WCS-overloaded lamers looking for easy ganks? On the other hand, an alliance invests a unreal amounts of time/money/efforts to gain sov, build outposts, places POSes, and do many many more things. And they end up not being able to see who's in THEIR (claimed) space? Removal of LOCAL will hurt 0.0 more than anything else, since it's often more important to know who are the friendlies in LOCAL, rather than who are the enemies. But hey, while we're at it, sentry guns, WCSs and CONCORD should be removed as well. Also, everyone should be instantly warp-scrambled when lazy pirates who want LOCAL removed enter the constellation. Or region. Maybe, but just maybe, covops ships (when cloaked) should not show in LOCAL. However, CCP should then add probes for detecting cloaked signatures, which would reveal (and possibly isolate 50km area to which you can warp) any covops. This way, you won't know if someone is cloaked, you'll have to invest some time to figure it out. And scan could last 5 minutes or more.
Ozmodan Minmatar Storm Industries	Posted - 2006.08.17 06:37:00 - [59] Good I wrote down all the names of those implying to use scouts. You will be hearing from me when I need one. <smiles> It amazes me that some of you are obtuse enough to not realize how much changing local will provide further advantages to the pirates in low sec. The pirates targets will have no idea he is there until he pops in. Unless CCP can come up with a way for scanners to alert you to an aggressor nearby, the risk in low sec will skyrocket, you will need well protected groups to go there anymore. I think this is hardly what ccp wants. Have you noticed what most of these pirates fly these days in low sec? Tech 2 ships fully decked out in tech 2 equipment. They have such low risk it is ridiculous. With instas and no fields at gates they have to be a really bad player to be caught. I don't mind risk, but at somepoint it just becomes foolhardy. All that will do is drive more people into high sec where they get bored with the game and quit. Learners permit still current
eLLioTT wave Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.17 06:49:00 - [60] Oi! You lot, stop being so damn negative!!!! This is a discussion about changing local, don't boo hoo about it, come up with ideas for a replacement to local!!! The 0.0 idea: When you have sov you can setup structures which provide your alliance/corp with local, however anyone outside your corp alliance will see nothing in local (not even themselves).

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