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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:22:00 -
[1]
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
it should not be removed until there are alternative defence thingy's
like placing remote probes on stargates to see if anyting/anyone comes trough or somting like that.
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That ccp created a universe doesen't mean they'r gods
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:23:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
I can't think of any scenario where those problems can't be solved by having people watch the gates. Enlighten me, please...
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Wrayth Osu
Caldari
Intergalactic House of Pi
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:25:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Wrayth Osu on 16/08/2006 21:25:58
Edited by: Wrayth Osu on 16/08/2006 21:25:01
Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
THATS exactly WHY they want it removed, so the ratters and miners can't see them coming.
____________________________________________________________________
Wrayth - "These are not the carebears you are looking for."
Pirate - "These are not the carebears we are looking for." |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:28:00 -
[4]
Surely it would mean that the people who want to kill the ratters and miners would actually have to look for them though, rather than just looking for names in local as they jump from system to system?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Wrayth Osu
Edited by: Wrayth Osu on 16/08/2006 21:25:58
Edited by: Wrayth Osu on 16/08/2006 21:25:01
Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
THATS exactly WHY they want it removed, so the ratters and miners can't see them coming.
never mind that if you remove the "active in the last 30 minutes" on the map you as a pirate can't see where to look either, scanning every system ftw rather then just breeze trough and looking at local.
___
Arbi  all I want is for you to smile. |
Karunel
Nuevos Horizontes
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:30:00 -
[6]
Local must die, at least in 0.0.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Avon
Surely it would mean that the people who want to kill the ratters and miners would actually have to look for them though, rather than just looking for names in local as they jump from system to system?
No, There are only a very limited number of places which are worth using 0.0 overlowsec for. The hunter has ALL the cards.
Baldour Ngarr, yea, so now they need alts on the far sides of the gates and they log the moment they see you enter a neighbouring system. What HAS been gained?
Karunel, CCP have stated (in the new regions thread) that local will allways be one mechanic Eve-wide.
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Caethes Adain
Minmatar
The Descendents
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:43:00 -
[8]
why did I even post...
....3 years here and still it goes on
People dissapoint me. End my dissapointment. |
Vanlade
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
it should not be removed until there are alternative defence thingy's
like placing remote probes on stargates to see if anyting/anyone comes trough or somting like that.
It would be good, and along with removing warp core stabilizers it would favorise small skirmish warfare and ransomning, instead of the current 10vs1 mindless ganking.
The sheeps don't know what's best for themselves. So god placed the Amarr to rules over them.
Now bow
- Vanlade
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arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:49:00 -
[10]
and the thickness of the statement is fascinating, if you plan to change a design, can't one counter act the negatives with other designs?
some examples from the top of my head.
- a scout? (as mentioned by someone before me)
- adding alarm drones instead of alt. scout (say a drone that sends signals to you at 5au/s of anyone entering a 300 km sphere).
- instead of a drone, make it a deployable "mine"
- an alarm module that works like a passive scanner alerting you of objects inbound to your location
- rework that scanner system to better help those that want to avoid pirates
etc.
this might ofcourse prompt other design decisions to counter-counter those above, like making the drone/mine in the first example easy to spot for the pirate. So now they both know of each other, like with the all seeing local, but with added immersion & traits.
So please try to think further then your nose.
that is besides the fact that the hunter also looses local, as explained above.
[note] these are not thought through, so do not see them as more then conceptual sketches.
___
Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
ElCoCo
Gallente
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:50:00 -
[11]
Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
But they can't see the miners either
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Aeina Caeraen
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: ElCoCo
But they can't see the miners either
Well, you're assuming that the quality of nullsec is uniform, and that ratters/miners are evenly spread throughout nullsec space.
As I'm sure you're aware, and as Maya has already pointed out, this is not the case. Whereas a roaming ganksquad is mobile, you can always depend on miners and ratters to be in certain places.
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Selfe
Caldari
UK Corp
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
it should not be removed until there are alternative defence thingy's
like placing remote probes on stargates to see if anyting/anyone comes trough or somting like that.
But also people wont be able to see if there are any miner/Ratters in system
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Join The UK Corperation. Foundin Partners in Lokta Volterra |
DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
I can't think of any scenario where those problems can't be solved by having people watch the gates. Enlighten me, please...
ok so I want YOU to sit your butt at a freaking gate for a few hours every time you log in, do nothing else but watch the gate traffic...yaaaaaa budddddy, that sure sounds like a lot of fun and you will surely watch the isk pile up while you DO NOTHING to earn isk because YOU are watching a gate...
Instas work as the bm system was intended. The fact the CCP wants to make it easier to gank and grief other players is not a reason to remove them. CCP even acknowledges that it takes suscriber $$$$$ to keep the game going, and to remove insta would cost them all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they need.
FRODO HAS FAILED;
BUSH HAS THE RING!!!
The HippoKing spots a new post |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aeina Caeraen
Originally by: ElCoCo
But they can't see the miners either
Well, you're assuming that the quality of nullsec is uniform, and that ratters/miners are evenly spread throughout nullsec space.
As I'm sure you're aware, and as Maya has already pointed out, this is not the case. Whereas a roaming ganksquad is mobile, you can always depend on miners and ratters to be in certain places.
Which is why EVE needs to become more dynamic in spawns, be it ore or pirates. Pre-determinition is the devil.
Looking For Ventrilo Hosting |
arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:18:00 -
[16]
Edited by: arbitrary on 16/08/2006 22:20:05
Originally by: DukDodgerz
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
I can't think of any scenario where those problems can't be solved by having people watch the gates. Enlighten me, please...
ok so I want YOU to sit your butt at a freaking gate for a few hours every time you log in, do nothing else but watch the gate traffic...yaaaaaa budddddy, that sure sounds like a lot of fun and you will surely watch the isk pile up while you DO NOTHING to earn isk because YOU are watching a gate...
Instas work as the bm system was intended. The fact the CCP wants to make it easier to gank and grief other players is not a reason to remove them. CCP even acknowledges that it takes suscriber $$$$$ to keep the game going, and to remove insta would cost them all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they need.
I wouldn't argue about the bore to watch a gate, unless you are using an alt for - then it just gets as boring as watching local 
...but if you would watch a gate for free while your buddies makes isk, then you are weird for sure 
oh and when did this get to be about instas? 
[EDIT] broke the quote 
___
Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: DukDodgerz
Instas work as the bm system was intended.
Well it's obvious that we should believe you instead of the developers who wrote the game, who all say that they don't.... right?
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Ordo Lucius
TRANS ATLANTIC inc
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:23:00 -
[18]
Look, everyone in eve is looking for a leg up on everyone else. Pirates want less chances for thier quarries to spot them and get away, non-pirates want a big banner over every pirate/ganker/**** with bad intentions ship with the message "RUN AWAY - IM GOING TO SHOOT YOU!"
The basic fact is BALANCE. Nobody should have any advantage over anyone else, and in a perfect world, they wouldnt.
But this is impossible in a game where choice is paramount.
"Should i fit a WCS?"
"should i plot a course through that .4 system?" etc. This choice allows CCP to forgive/allow stuff like gate camps, the ganking of newbies in frigates, and allow US to create a truly immersive game expirence. Dont want to be blown up? avoid low sec systems; just been ganked at a gate? shoulda checked the map filters... and so on.
Look at WOW. Everything is moderated, high level characters are punished with "Dishonour Points" for killing idiot newbies who wander into thier territory (a naked run into Oggrimar was always a laugh), Why? Because its warm and fuzzy and... clinicly dull. Who wants to wander into the "bad guys" city with no risk? with no chance of losses because u can float right back to ur corpse and carry on? Not me. Hell, thats why i gave it up. But i digress...
Local Chat, in essence, is one of these "safety" things. It allows CCP to say "oh, u were ganked? By the same guy who ganked u last night? and the night before? well... did u check local before u undocked?" Like the filters on the map, like WCS, like having common sense, it BALANCES the game. Taking it away would be like giving every known pirate a cloak; sorry guys, one of the penalties of being a bad guy is INFAMY, and if u dont like it? Well, nobody likes being ganked from 130km by an armageddon either... see? BALANCE! :D
"Smurfs on the left, Tweenies on the right, and the Angel of WTFPWND!!! right behind..."
this is not the greatest signature in the world, this is just a tribute... |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:25:00 -
[19]
Remove local. Remove ship loss, average ppl in map, etc.
Let the hunt begins.
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In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:35:00 -
[20]
Yep. And you'll very quickly herd most of Eve's population elsewhere too!
Danton Marcellus, then what point holding particular pieces of 0.0? Soo double sided.
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Benco97
Gallente
On Ravens Wings
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:39:00 -
[21]
if local is removed will there still be a way to contact people?
I propose that instead of removing local they simply make it constellation wide, that way you'll be able to have a friendly chat with anyone you like but nobody will know exactly where you are.
I mean.. yeah, I like the idea of removing local but don't you think it'll get a little lonely?
Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group and Registered Fedo breeder |
nahtoh
Caldari
Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:46:00 -
[22]
Well if you remove local you have to at the very least allow players to check a sphere around stations before you undock.
As for removing local its self? unsure I can see both sides of the argument really. perhaps just allowing you to be seen for 10 to 30 secs on jump in?
Gate beacons and all that jazz...
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
skilzrulz
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Benco97
if local is removed will there still be a way to contact people?
I propose that instead of removing local they simply make it constellation wide, that way you'll be able to have a friendly chat with anyone you like but nobody will know exactly where you are.
I mean.. yeah, I like the idea of removing local but don't you think it'll get a little lonely?
I like this idea.
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Skva
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: skilzrulz
Originally by: Benco97
if local is removed will there still be a way to contact people?
I propose that instead of removing local they simply make it constellation wide, that way you'll be able to have a friendly chat with anyone you like but nobody will know exactly where you are.
I mean.. yeah, I like the idea of removing local but don't you think it'll get a little lonely?
I like this idea.
So do I... Except Jita and surrounding systems turn into an even bigger hell hole as the chats are merged into one
Your signature is too large! Please resize it according to the forum guidelines. Jacques Archambault |
Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:05:00 -
[25]
Benco97, so now they have to log when the hunters enter the constellation. This isn't an advance for either side.
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Tas Devil
JUDGE DREAD Inc.
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:06:00 -
[26]
Don't you people realise that the main reason for not removing local is much simpler then this ?
Remove local and interaction in eve is limited to a 400km grid around you...your visual range... Eve will become utterly boring and tidious as you will have to scan/search every system to find hostiles to interact with...whether they be prey if you are a piwate...or a piwate if you are anti-pie..
How many times do you see a hostile in local yet never see them in visual range because they are simply never in the same grid as you in space... yet you know they are there cause local tells you so...and hence you try and find them... ,meaning you move from one grid to the next ...and keep looking...
Without local interaction between players in 0.0 will become almost inexistant apart from utterly boring gate camps of expected high travel gates...
This is the last thing we want in 0.0 ... those that keep crying 'remove local' don't understand that if local is removed 0.0 will truly become void space... there will be plenty of us out there ... yet we will never find one another and simply once in a while stumble upon each other by total random luck.. the only exception are obvious ganging area... like ecp8r ...where you are guaranteed to always find someone in belts ratting or mining...and then removing local is basically a one sided advantage towards the hunter...
Also just a little hint... 'removing local' threads have been around for 2 years now... its not been implemented... its been overly discussed...and never even came close to being seriously tested... don't get the hint yet ? Dream on...
The best Laugh ever ...
Credit goes to Killer8 for this !
Oh and apparently the mods tell me there is bad language on his site so beware kids :) |
Deepeh
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:06:00 -
[27]
Give it a twist, make a POS module that will show local to the members of the alliance that has Sovereignity.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly. |
Benco97
Gallente
On Ravens Wings
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Benco97, so now they have to log when the hunters enter the constellation. This isn't an advance for either side.
I hate when my ideas get shot down with well thought out logic.. but i'm allowed stupid ideas, i'm tired.
Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group and Registered Fedo breeder |
DukDodgerz
|
Posted - 2006.08.16 23:09:00 -
[29]
Originally by: arbitrary
Edited by: arbitrary on 16/08/2006 22:20:05
Originally by: DukDodgerz
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
I can't think of any scenario where those problems can't be solved by having people watch the gates. Enlighten me, please...
ok so I want YOU to sit your butt at a freaking gate for a few hours every time you log in, do nothing else but watch the gate traffic...yaaaaaa budddddy, that sure sounds like a lot of fun and you will surely watch the isk pile up while you DO NOTHING to earn isk because YOU are watching a gate...
Instas work as the bm system was intended. The fact the CCP wants to make it easier to gank and grief other players is not a reason to remove them. CCP even acknowledges that it takes suscriber $$$$$ to keep the game going, and to remove insta would cost them all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they need.
I wouldn't argue about the bore to watch a gate, unless you are using an alt for - then it just gets as boring as watching local
...but if you would watch a gate for free while your buddies makes isk, then you are weird for sure
oh and when did this get to be about instas?
[EDIT] broke the quote
egads!...
you're right...so used to the insta argument, I used the wrong word. (OOPS)
FRODO HAS FAILED;
BUSH HAS THE RING!!!
The HippoKing spots a new post |
Vincent Gaines
|
Posted - 2006.08.16 23:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:22:06
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:21:40
OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, ... 
why do people insist on screwing up the boards like this?
anyway, if you want to play without local, minimize it for a couple days.
I bet 100 ISK you'll open it up within a couple hours at most.
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Tas Devil
JUDGE DREAD Inc.
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:25:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Tas Devil on 16/08/2006 23:27:39
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:22:06
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:21:40
OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...
team work is fun if its not necessary to accomplish every simgle action in eve ... its good if its a requirement to eprfrom some actions properly... but if it becomes a requirement to do just about anything it becomes tidious...
Besides team work or not ...finding people will become close to impossible for your average playing timeframe... only those able to spend 6 hrs on the PC at a time looking at gates for hours straight will be rewraded in their hunts...and how bloody boring is that ???
P.S. : I don't know why I even bothered replying to you... you normally contribute constructively to the eve community but that comment is nothing more then trolling and sensationalism
The best Laugh ever ...
Credit goes to Killer8 for this !
Oh and apparently the mods tell me there is bad language on his site so beware kids :) |
Tribunal
Darkblade Technologies
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:36:00 -
[32]
Local isn't getting nerfed, so this entire thread is moot. One person post something that is incorrect and we suddenly have 10 threads pop up about the subject. 
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Infinity Ziona
Space Elves of Ragnoroth
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:45:00 -
[33]
I refuse to post in another local thread...
Dammit!
Infinity Ziona
'The alliance should not be a solo contentmobile' - Albert Einstein |
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:45:00 -
[34]
It's
Not
Going
To
Happen
(ok, so It might get changed but it's completly ridiculous that it would be REMOVED).
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arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
anyway, if you want to play without local, minimize it for a couple days.
I bet 100 ISK you'll open it up within a couple hours at most.
While we are at it, why not make an other bet!
Try flying your BS into combat with miners instead of offensive weapons for a week, I bet 100 ISK that you would swap to guns again after a couple of losses.
You could ask the same question again like this.
anyway, if you want to play without local, make CCP remove it for a couple of days. (I would hope on a system where you aint visible until you type though)
then you can argue.
stating that I should play with a handicap while everyone else uses this mighty feature is not a valid argument, and would not show us how it would work.
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, ...
but I thought it was a single player game
___
Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
Neon Genesis
Gallente
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2006.08.17 00:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:22:06
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:21:40
OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, ...
why do people insist on screwing up the boards like this?
anyway, if you want to play without local, minimize it for a couple days.
I bet 100 ISK you'll open it up within a couple hours at most.
....
......
Yes, because everyone else but you would be able to use it.....
WTS Brain.
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Alkeena
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Posted - 2006.08.17 01:18:00 -
[37]
I've personally been somewhat on the fence on this issue as I can honestly see the merit on both sides of the argument. For those that are intent on its removal though how would you resolve the following issue in a reasonable fashion:
Say you're operating in enemy, or even simply contested territory, in a system with a fair number of POS. At these POS sit a fair number of ships, naturally. You, a Ninja Miner, NPCer, Ganker, whatever enter the system and start trolling the belts. Being the cautious sort you scan around and locates all these ships sitting at a POS. Being even more cautious you decide to eject from your ship and check the POS out in your pod, to make sure all the ships you see on your scanner there are in fact pilotless. After confirming this you're confident in ignoring those ships on your scanner and carrying on with your business.
You set up scouts, proximity drones, whatever solution you want at the gates, and are constantly vigilant with your scanner--scanning every 30 seconds or so ( good God the pain ). Seeing nothing new each time you happilly continue on with your business. Suddenly, a new, unexpected, hostile just appeared in the belt you were operating out of, scrams you, and brutally murders you and your crew. Where in God's name did HE come from?
Answer? He logged off in his pod at the POS, logged in, and immediately jumped in one of the ships you'd marked as empty earlier and has set about liesurely scanning down your position.
By removing local you've just introduced a brand new form of logon trap. Lord knows how we all love those.
Even if the above is somehow obviated by some means, the simple fact that I have to physically check every POS or abandoned ship I might find on scanners is not a task I particularly relish the thought of.
~Alkeena
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Sorja
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.17 02:12:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Karunel
Local must die, at least in 0.0.
And surprizingly, local is in fact already removed... in Empire!
You can't check all dudes in a 100 people system, so it's the world upside down ^^
____________________
Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings?
Quillan Rage > Iron ships |
Ms Muneca
AYDS
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Posted - 2006.08.17 02:17:00 -
[39]
down with teamwork
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Bhaal
Minmatar
M. Corp
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.17 02:26:00 -
[40]
1.0 - 0.5 Local stays the way it is...
0.4 - 0.1 When you speak, you show up in local and stay shown until you jump...
0.0 - When you speak, you're name shows in the chatbox, but there is no list of pilots in space, it's always 0.
------------------------------------------------
Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.17 02:43:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 17/08/2006 02:45:50
I expect that we get something else, not just hammering the system scanner non-stop and also that we get the info of someone logging in somehow, because CCP thinks themselves that login traps are lame. They just allow it, because it's too difficult to police.
System scanning is going to change anyway, so they will take care of that. Think the server wouldn't be very happy either, if thousands of players hammered the system scanner now.
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Lord Frost
Minmatar
The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.08.17 02:45:00 -
[42]
lose local... lose bookmarks... play happy.
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.17 03:07:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yep. And you'll very quickly herd most of Eve's population elsewhere too!
Danton Marcellus, then what point holding particular pieces of 0.0? Soo double sided.
Please stop trying to tell everyone what they'll do if CCP does something. You AREN'T the majority of the eve playerbase, nor do you represent them. You are ONE SINGLE PLAYER (even if you have alts).
If you are unhappy about something that is being discussed please only comment on your own actions and reactions and stop trying to fear-munger.
Lot's of players have threatened to quit/change their playstyle because of something CCP have planned to bring in, the majority of them (that i have seen) are still playing today.
CCP will very quickly herd most of Eve's population elsewhere? I would put much isk that you know very little of eve's population, probably less than 1%. How can you comment on what even these 1% will do? Have you spoken to all the people you know in game and they are all unanimous on the subject?
Please people stop spamming the "don't do it or i'll quit and so will the rest of my alliance and everyone else they know" (Maya i'm not saying this is what you're doing right now, but it is what some people do on these forums)
With regards to a local change: whatever CCP do it will not be without great amounts of discussion and planning.
Local (according to some of the developers) is not being used as it was intended, therefore we can expect that they ARE in discussion about what can be done to change it. Let's all stop worrying that they will screw us over and be positive about it. Put your own ideas down, comment (not flame) other's ideas. Work on balancing it for everyone.
CCP read what we say and listen to our ideas.
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Xelios
Minmatar
Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2006.08.17 03:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:22:06
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/08/2006 23:21:40
OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...
If by teamwork you mean somehow convincing 3 or 4 of your friends to sit on a gate for a few hours just to yell if someone jumps in...
The new BFG.
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Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.17 03:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xelios
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
TEAMWORK
If by teamwork you mean somehow convincing 3 or 4 of your friends to sit on a gate for a few hours just to yell if someone jumps in...
That's it exactly. With no more local you'd have to have people sit at gates hours on end doing nothing, or have people spamming the scanner constantly to keep up even the same amount of intel you can get from local now.
Pirates on the other hand would simply need to fly belt to belt to find their targets, the exact same thing they have to do now.
So nothing changes for pirates really while everyone else needs to have half their "team" waste away the hours. No wonder pirates want this change.
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Lil Miner
Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
FarScape III
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Posted - 2006.08.17 04:15:00 -
[46]
I just think having local is more fun to get people talking and just having an easy way to get with people and it is just fun.
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FarScape III
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Posted - 2006.08.17 04:23:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Bhaal
1.0 - 0.5 Local stays the way it is...
0.4 - 0.1 When you speak, you show up in local and stay shown until you jump...
0.0 - When you speak, you're name shows in the chatbox, but there is no list of pilots in space, it's always 0.
Oh good so then 0.0 becomes even more quit then it is, why is that fun? No one will talk if it means they will be noticed by someone who can kill them when being quit means they won't be seen.
Why don't you want to have it just stay a big fun party like it is?
Local is just a way to show we have the tecknology to see who is in the area, so big deal. It's fun and promotes people interecting and talking like a game should be.
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DuckM4n Vo
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Posted - 2006.08.17 04:23:00 -
[48]
Look at it from the other side? Pirates cant find the miners/ratters either. It works both ways!
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Firane
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.17 04:38:00 -
[49]
Originally by: DuckM4n Vo
Look at it from the other side? Pirates cant find the miners/ratters either. It works both ways!
The thing about it is the pirates would have an unfair advantage - knowledge of true security aka highly traveled systems.
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.17 04:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Xelios
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
TEAMWORK
If by teamwork you mean somehow convincing 3 or 4 of your friends to sit on a gate for a few hours just to yell if someone jumps in...
That's it exactly. With no more local you'd have to have people sit at gates hours on end doing nothing, or have people spamming the scanner constantly to keep up even the same amount of intel you can get from local now.
Pirates on the other hand would simply need to fly belt to belt to find their targets, the exact same thing they have to do now.
So nothing changes for pirates really while everyone else needs to have half their "team" waste away the hours. No wonder pirates want this change.
I disagree, it will be very hard to convince people to be scouts for extended periods of time. Instead i think you will find more people requiring escorts in low sec (either from their corp or hired help), OR people will fly less expensive ships capable of defending themselves.
Either option will be good for eve. A need for paid escorts brings about more opportunities for pvp'ers. |
Ectus
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Posted - 2006.08.17 05:16:00 -
[51]
Needing escorts? Sounds like even further encouragement to only fly in ginormous blobs. Yay.
:-(
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Herring
Pimpology
Pimpology in Mining Player
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Posted - 2006.08.17 05:35:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Remove local. Remove ship loss, average ppl in map, etc.
Let the hunt begins.
Let us mine the asteroid belts around a planet or something, that are actually >1000km or more in diameter, and I'd say hell ya, I agree with the girl, game on.
Static belts with a mineable radius of less than 100km with no way to check local favors the attacker so much that it'll drive more people out of 0.0. Fix them
Wishing for better mining ships in a system near you. |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.17 05:50:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ectus
Needing escorts? Sounds like even further encouragement to only fly in ginormous blobs. Yay.
:-(
I don't think so. I think blobs are an arms race. "they have 10 more than us in local lets get 15 more before we engage." "they brought 15 more in lets get 20 more.." = blob.
I think the order of the patch would be wolf packs, frigates and cruisers, mobile, fast, able to run or chase just as easily.
It will be more fun for a big corp to split up into small packs and increase their chances of any of them running into targets, rather than blobbing and heading to the systems their scouts have found high numbers in local for. |
Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.08.17 05:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: arbitrary
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
anyway, if you want to play without local, minimize it for a couple days.
I bet 100 ISK you'll open it up within a couple hours at most.
While we are at it, why not make an other bet!
Try flying your BS into combat with miners instead of offensive weapons for a week, I bet 100 ISK that you would swap to guns again after a couple of losses.
You could ask the same question again like this.
anyway, if you want to play without local, make CCP remove it for a couple of days. (I would hope on a system where you aint visible until you type though)
then you can argue.
stating that I should play with a handicap while everyone else uses this mighty feature is not a valid argument, and would not show us how it would work.
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
OH MY GOD WE MIGHT HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, ...
but I thought it was a single player game
The point of what I stated wasn't to show that another player would have an advantage, of course that would be it.
what I am saying is that in 0.0 it's unlikely YOU (generic you, meaning everyone) could withstand not having local, at least with the current "exploits" and scanning options.
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Nicholai Pestot
Gallente
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.17 05:56:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 17/08/2006 05:56:03
Oh look, this conversation again
Wasnt the general consensus before:-
Local in hi-sec empire stays the same
Local in Low-sec empire switches over to constellation local
Local in 0.0 vanishes, with the ability for people to setup easly locateable and destroyable structures to simulate it....
________________
What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
Dukath
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Posted - 2006.08.17 05:56:00 -
[56]
Why does everyone and their dog insist on always going for the best belts and ignoring the rest? Sure you might miss 10% efficiency in ratting or mining, but on the other hand 99% of the people hunting you would miss you too.
Remove local and in stead of only going to the best systems, take a slightly worse system and play happily without problems. With local and the map feature using a slightly worse system has the same risk as the top notch system yet gives less income. With local removed the risk in lower end systems gets reduced by a massive amount. Thus opening up 0.0 for a lot more people who are not as greedy as most posters here seem to be.
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Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
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Posted - 2006.08.17 06:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
I can't think of any scenario where those problems can't be solved by having people watch the gates. Enlighten me, please...
Sitting and watching a gate is not fun. Basically, you're saying that you have to have someone sitting at the gate bored out of their mind and watching for hostiles while everyone else makes ISK, plex-*****s, or what have you.
It won't fly, man. Anything that makes the game LESS fun is inherently bad game design.
What, use an alt? Not everyone has a second account - I know I don't.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
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Sentinel Eeex
Caldari
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.17 06:10:00 -
[58]
Doh, not again. All benefits to hunters, no benefits to others.
In 0.0, it is VERY obvious where mining ops will be, and very obvious where ratters will be. So, how does removing LOCAL benefit to anyone except WCS-overloaded lamers looking for easy ganks?
On the other hand, an alliance invests a unreal amounts of time/money/efforts to gain sov, build outposts, places POSes, and do many many more things. And they end up not being able to see who's in THEIR (claimed) space?
Removal of LOCAL will hurt 0.0 more than anything else, since it's often more important to know who are the friendlies in LOCAL, rather than who are the enemies.
But hey, while we're at it, sentry guns, WCSs and CONCORD should be removed as well. Also, everyone should be instantly warp-scrambled when lazy pirates who want LOCAL removed enter the constellation. Or region.
Maybe, but just maybe, covops ships (when cloaked) should not show in LOCAL. However, CCP should then add probes for detecting cloaked signatures, which would reveal (and possibly isolate 50km area to which you can warp) any covops. This way, you won't know if someone is cloaked, you'll have to invest some time to figure it out. And scan could last 5 minutes or more.
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Ozmodan
Minmatar
Storm Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.17 06:37:00 -
[59]
Good I wrote down all the names of those implying to use scouts. You will be hearing from me when I need one. <smiles>
It amazes me that some of you are obtuse enough to not realize how much changing local will provide further advantages to the pirates in low sec. The pirates targets will have no idea he is there until he pops in. Unless CCP can come up with a way for scanners to alert you to an aggressor nearby, the risk in low sec will skyrocket, you will need well protected groups to go there anymore. I think this is hardly what ccp wants.
Have you noticed what most of these pirates fly these days in low sec? Tech 2 ships fully decked out in tech 2 equipment. They have such low risk it is ridiculous. With instas and no fields at gates they have to be a really bad player to be caught.
I don't mind risk, but at somepoint it just becomes foolhardy. All that will do is drive more people into high sec where they get bored with the game and quit.
Learners permit still current |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.17 06:49:00 -
[60]
Oi! You lot, stop being so damn negative!!!!
This is a discussion about changing local, don't boo hoo about it, come up with ideas for a replacement to local!!!
The 0.0 idea: When you have sov you can setup structures which provide your alliance/corp with local, however anyone outside your corp alliance will see nothing in local (not even themselves).
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2006.08.17 07:16:00 -
[61]
Removing Local, the current bookmark system, WCS and other things that I see folks whine about only always favor the PVPers.
The problem is you remove all that stuff, you change the game so dynamically that those that are mostly interested in building and mining will leave the game.
I realise PVP is a major component of the game. Without it the miners and builders would soon be without anything to do. At the same time mining and building are important parts of the game too. Trying to force the removal of tools that help them accomplish their part will have a dramatic impact on those that play the game for those parts.
SOE made major changes in SWG, they tried to force more PVP, it was a disaster. SWG has less than 1/4 the population today that it had at its height.
BMs are essentially needed in the game. It is about the only way to actively mine enough minerals, by strategically placed BMs. Barges move extemely slow and it really isn't that much fun to have to try to move 15km at 90 m/s just so you can reach the rocks. If the BM system is not what the Devs intended, what exactly did they intend for it be used? Whatever they intended initially major changes to that system today without some sort of viable alternative is going to have a backlash effect.
WCS are needed as a counter to the Warp Scramblers. If you remove one you have to remove the other. But I don't see that argument much. In fact Warp Scramblers are stronger than WCS. A ship that devotes its mid slots to Warp Scramblers will in almost every case beat the ship that mounts WCS in its lows.
The removal of local is something that will have a profound effect on the game. Its removal will only aid those that seek to shoot at the weak and defenseless, the miners, haulers and builders. Those who support that part of the game will be at a loss, and will most likely leave the game. Saying that the pirate is just as blind isn't the same, you ever outfitted a barge you'd know what I mean, there isn't any room left for a scanner to scan the system. You barely have enough pg and cpu to mount the strip miners, a mining upgrade, a asteroid scanner, and possible a little armor, or a cpu upgrade if you need it. So in essence its not a even trade off, because the combat vessal has more cpu, more pg and more slots to use that make it such that it gains a tremendous advantage over the miner/hauler ships. Not everyone has time to gather up a gang, if you have 2 hours to play a day, that's enough time to mine 2 jet cans and haul it. If you are forced into a system where you have to wait for your buddy to come on to watch over you all the time even in high sec, then lets say you only have an hour left. That will cut the minerals available on market by half and the price will rise.
Each part of the game, whether it is combat, research, building, mining and hauling is an integral part of the game, any change that unbalances to the point that someone wanting to play a certain part of the game can no longer enjoy that part they will leave the game.
EVE has seen a steady growth over 3 years, unlike many of its competitors. Major changes that change the dynamic of the game not only could threaten that growth but could also cause a plummet in subscriptions similar to what happened in SWG.
Caution is the best course. If it ain't broke don't fix, is an old adage. These portions of the game work well as they are now, and I think that adage should apply, lest you get something that satisfies far to few people to sustain the game.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.17 07:17:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Xelios
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
TEAMWORK
If by teamwork you mean somehow convincing 3 or 4 of your friends to sit on a gate for a few hours just to yell if someone jumps in...
That's it exactly. With no more local you'd have to have people sit at gates hours on end doing nothing, or have people spamming the scanner constantly to keep up even the same amount of intel you can get from local now.
Pirates on the other hand would simply need to fly belt to belt to find their targets, the exact same thing they have to do now.
So nothing changes for pirates really while everyone else needs to have half their "team" waste away the hours. No wonder pirates want this change.
Not true at all. I can think of many ways that a solution to the requirement to gate scout could be implemented.
1. Broadcast gate activations. The Local icon tab flashes on gate activations. Or the gate icon flashes or glows in space.
2. Keep a count of pilots in local on the local channel. When it goes up or down you'll know someone came in or left.
3. Scouting probes. Cloaked probes that you can leave at a gate which will send you an email when something that fits your set parameters comes within its range.
Just 3 ideas that I thought up quickly that would solve the problems with not having to deploy gate watchers.
Anyone logging in inside the system can be announced briefly on the local channel to avoid log in traps.
Click Me
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.17 08:16:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Removing Local, the current bookmark system, WCS and other things that I see folks whine about only always favor the PVPers.
Everyone is a PvP'er in Eve, whether they want to be, or not.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.17 08:34:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Removing Local, the current bookmark system, WCS and other things that I see folks whine about only always favor the PVPers.
Everyone is a PvP'er in Eve, whether they want to be, or not.
True but Mecinia is forgetting that seeing someone in local in 0.0 gives you someone to hunt. Many times on my travels to empire i have stopped and called in help because of seeing someone in local. Now if that person is a carebear trying to ninja mine... local just ruined their day. If i hadn't of seen them in local i woulda kept on going because i had something to do. I wasn't looking for targets, but i came accross some with no effort on my own apart from noticing local wasnt empty ;)
So no, it far from always favours the PVPers. In fact the first thing a pvp'er usually does when entering a system is looks at local. NOT running around to every planet and belt to see if someone might be there.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2006.08.17 08:41:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Removing Local, the current bookmark system, WCS and other things that I see folks whine about only always favor the PVPers.
Everyone is a PvP'er in Eve, whether they want to be, or not.
While everyone has the potential to be attacked, not everyone in this game is a PVPer. There is a difference. The preponderance of folks that live in Empire shows that for the most part despite any other claims most people that play this game do not do so for PVP reasons.
I really wish you had read my other points above, I did mention that PVP is a major componenet of the game, but so also is mining, hauling, building and research. If you change the dynamic of the game to such an extent that people cannot enjoy those aspects anymore, people will leave the game.
How many we can't say for sure. But its a cycle. If we go by populations on the map, there are more people in high sec than in any other sec in the game. That tells me that a majority of the game probably do not enjoy PVP, they operate more in a support role towards it providing the goods and materials necessary to fight. As the minerals and goods from this element disappear from the market and others cannot find what they need to play they too will leave.
With the dynamic changes proposed lets say half the people that play in high sec quit the game, can the game survive? That's a tremendous loss in game income.
SOE made dynamic changes to its game and its paid the price, its lost market share across the board, and all of its games have lost subscriptions. Its barely a footnote on the slice of the wheel anymore despite having 5 games running and 5 games in development.
I don't want to see CCP make the same errors. Whatever the original intent these parts of the game have become integral. If you don't allow a way for folks to escape, you have to remove the means to keep them in a place against their will.
They need to give great care to these changes some are pushing for. Indeed the game seems to be doing well with them in place as they are and I'm not sure any change is needed in them.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2006.08.17 08:48:00 -
[66]
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Removing Local, the current bookmark system, WCS and other things that I see folks whine about only always favor the PVPers.
Everyone is a PvP'er in Eve, whether they want to be, or not.
True but Mecinia is forgetting that seeing someone in local in 0.0 gives you someone to hunt. Many times on my travels to empire i have stopped and called in help because of seeing someone in local. Now if that person is a carebear trying to ninja mine... local just ruined their day. If i hadn't of seen them in local i woulda kept on going because i had something to do. I wasn't looking for targets, but i came accross some with no effort on my own apart from noticing local wasnt empty ;)
So no, it far from always favours the PVPers. In fact the first thing a pvp'er usually does when entering a system is looks at local. NOT running around to every planet and belt to see if someone might be there.
I wish you had read my point on fittings. The barges and the industrials do not have the pg/cpu to mount a system scanner, especially the barges. Which means they will have no way of knowing if a pirate, etc is in the system, whereas the pirate could easily devote one of his slots to a scanner.
Thus removing local would affect the miner/hauler more than it would affect the pirate.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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tookar
Amarr
Krookid
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Posted - 2006.08.17 09:04:00 -
[67]
Originally by: DukDodgerz
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: The Wizz117
it is not good to remove local becouse it would be a seriouse problem for 0.0 ratters/miners or for people at war. ( think u can figure the scenerio's urself)
I can't think of any scenario where those problems can't be solved by having people watch the gates. Enlighten me, please...
ok so I want YOU to sit your butt at a freaking gate for a few hours every time you log in, do nothing else but watch the gate traffic...yaaaaaa budddddy, that sure sounds like a lot of fun and you will surely watch the isk pile up while you DO NOTHING to earn isk because YOU are watching a gate...
Instas work as the bm system was intended. The fact the CCP wants to make it easier to gank and grief other players is not a reason to remove them. CCP even acknowledges that it takes suscriber $$$$$ to keep the game going, and to remove insta would cost them all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they need.
How is scouting a gate different to mining? Both activities you basically sit there and do nothing and chat . Insta is another issue than local . I still say increase the high end ores amount mined and make it so that mining ops NEED scouts . It ridiculous that you can mine solo in 0.0 (the supposed most dangerous place in eve) with absolutely no risk .
Btw getting rid of local is NOT about just ganking miners its about actually giving pvpers a game they can play . At the moment to actually get any sort of fight at all in most cases you have to jump into vastly superior odds just for some fun as most carebear/pvp alliances will just dock and wait your fleet out . This isnt how 0.0 should work you shopuld have to fight for your space not just fight against those you KNOW you can beat and dock when someone else comes along .
Add all this to the fact its almost certain to lose capitals when attacking deathstar pos and you have entities who have outposts who shouldnt be able to in reasonable sense be able to defend them against vastly superior fleet but due to pos lag killihng fleets and local allowing them to choose to fight only battles they will 99% win they can hold space that its ridiculous for them to own.
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Locke Ateid
Minmatar
Outrider Fleet Command
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Posted - 2006.08.17 09:18:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Removing Local, the current bookmark system, WCS and other things that I see folks whine about only always favor the PVPers.
Everyone is a PvP'er in Eve, whether they want to be, or not.
True but Mecinia is forgetting that seeing someone in local in 0.0 gives you someone to hunt. Many times on my travels to empire i have stopped and called in help because of seeing someone in local. Now if that person is a carebear trying to ninja mine... local just ruined their day. If i hadn't of seen them in local i woulda kept on going because i had something to do. I wasn't looking for targets, but i came accross some with no effort on my own apart from noticing local wasnt empty ;)
So no, it far from always favours the PVPers. In fact the first thing a pvp'er usually does when entering a system is looks at local. NOT running around to every planet and belt to see if someone might be there.
...The barges and the industrials do not have the pg/cpu to mount a system scanner...
I keep on hearing you say this, but am at a complete loss at what you mean. Mostly because ALL ships in Eve have a scanner that can scan as far as every other ship.
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.08.17 09:25:00 -
[69]
Let's keep this to one thread please?
(Locked for my pleasure )
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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